I posted my first article Why I Quit Christianity on August 8, 2011, after nearly two decades as a convinced Bible believing Christian. A lot has happened since then and the comment stream under that post is full with over 350 comments, so it seemed like a good time to repost it. It is particularly relevant now because I have finally found an answer to the questions I posed at the end of the article:
In my next post, I will begin reviewing the Bible Wheel book to see what it looks like without my “blinders” on. I am very curious because as far as I know, all the evidence for the apparently “supernatural” design in the Bible remains true. This is the great mystery that now confronts me. The evidence for the Bible Wheel remains despite the obvious flaws in the Bible. So what does it mean? I don’t know yet, and before trying to come to a conclusion, I feel a need to critique my own book with the same honesty I have critiqued the Bible upon which it is based.
As it turns out, most of the “evidence” for the Bible Wheel was nothing but a massive collection of cherry picked “coincidences” that supported my preconceived conclusion of design. It is a textbook case of “confirmation bias.” This is the topic of my following article called Debunking Myself: What A Long Strange Trip It’s Been. Here now is my old article “Why I Quit Christianity”:
Since I began this website back in 2001, and during most of the decade that followed, I identified myself as a “Bible-believing Christian” in no uncertain terms. For example, here is how I described myself in my old FAQ (which remains on the old version of my site for historical purposes):
Are you a Christian? Protestant? Catholic?
Praise God, I am a man saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesian 2:8). I am a non-denominational blood-bought Bible-believing Trinitarian Christian. I believe that the true “faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3) is well stated in the early creeds of the church that Christ founded.
Likewise, here is my testimony about the purpose of my website on the old homepage:
To this end I labour, to glorify the Triune God; to glorify the Father Almighty, Creator of all, to glorify His Son Jesus Christ my Saviour and Hope, and to glorify the Giver of all divine gifts, my Comforter, Guide, Teacher and Friend, God the Holy Spirit. To You be the glory, thrice holy blessed God of Eternity! To You be the glory, now and forevermore. Amen. Amen. Amen.
And here are the thanks I gave to Christ on my old About page:
I remain eternally grateful to my Lord Jesus Christ, the King of the Universe, for shedding His Light upon me and guiding my path – usually without my knowledge – and giving me both the burning desire and the ability to proclaim the neverending wonders of His Holy Word. Oh! The wonders of His Grace! Had He left me to myself, doubtless I’d be dead or wandering aimless and lost through this dark world. Thank you, my Lord!
So, that’s where I was at for most of the last couple decades. How then is it possible that I now reject the faith I once believed with such passion? What changed? The answer is really pretty simple. I was “blinded” by the light I saw in the Bible. Anyone who has entered in to the Bible with believing eyes knows how it can capture the soul. It feels alive. It touches chords that resonate down into the deepest parts of ourselves. It seems to be filled with light everywhere you look: the Gospel message shines with its numinous symbolic elements like the Alpha Omega, the Cross, the Dove, the Death and Resurrection of Christ, and on and on it goes. Who wouldn’t want to believe such a story? Indeed, the believer wonders how anyone could resist such an amazing Gospel message. And beyond all that, I had the overwhelming witness of the Bible Wheel which seemed to confirm everything about the Bible as the very Word of God. All these things blinded me to the “dark side” of the Bible. I simply “overlooked” all the problematic passages, errors, contradictions, and moral abominations that didn’t fit with the amazingly glorious, and blinding, vision of the Bible as “God’s Word.”
So here are three of the primary issues that conspired to finally convince me that the traditional Christian faith is not true:
1) The Doctrine of Hell
I cannot conceive of a good God who would design an eternal evil in which souls suffer eternal conscious torment. This is a central doctrine accepted by the vast majority of Christians. It always bothered me throughout my time as a Christian, but I put it on the “back burner” and didn’t think about it much.
2) The Bible contains many errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God.
This point covers a very large class of problems. Many recent threads on my forum deal with them. The most significant to me are the moral abominations attributed to God, such as his command to kill all the men, women, and children of people in Canaan.
3) God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers.
This fact seems incontrovertible and it directly contradicts the central promises of the Bible. It was the “final straw” for me. It has nothing to with any personal prayers that were not answered. The problem is that the promises in the Bible simply are not true.
There were many other issues, such as the general corruption of institutional Christianity (as witnessed by the ongoing cover-up of Ergun Caner’s decade of lies) and the general gullibility and anti-intellectualism of Christians (as witnessed by Harold Camping predicting the end of the world on May 21, 2011 and being given $81,000,000 by his brain-dead followers even after his previous failed date), but this is a pretty good overview. I would be delighted to discuss these points in detail with anyone interested.
In my next post, I will begin reviewing the Bible Wheel book to see what it looks like without my “blinders” on. I am very curious because as far as I know, all the evidence for the apparently “supernatural” design in the Bible remains true. This is the great mystery that now confronts me. The evidence for the Bible Wheel remains despite the obvious flaws in the Bible. So what does it mean? I don’t know yet, and before trying to come to a conclusion, I feel a need to critique my own book with the same honesty I have critiqued the Bible upon which it is based.
Greetings Richard!
The holy Bible declares that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never truly was a Christian (1 John 2:19).
Christians do not reject the faith and deny Christ!
Richard, your actions are proof that you were never redeemed. You wrote as if you believed you were born again, but you were not.
The God of the holy Bible is the only person who can save. Seek Him eagerly and you will be blessed!
Greetings Richard!
What prayer does God answer?
God answers prayers that line up with His will.
For example, it’s God’s will for man to pray the words in Mathew 6:9-13.
When we do this wholeheartedly, He will answer our heart’s prayer so that we can truly hallow His name.
Richard, your current understanding of the God of the Bible is flawed!
The more I read what you write, the more I realise that you “miss the vital point” that God’s thoughts are higher than ours.
You also think very mistakenly that His morals are lower than ours.
Do you really think that the person who weaved you together in your mother’s womb is less intelligent than you?
Do you really believe that your morals are higher than those He has?
Richard, once upon you wrote at times sensibly, even though you were not born again.
Once upon a time you were a keen explorer for truth, but even then you didn’t come into a living intimate relationship with the LORD.
In my opinion, salvation is still possible for you and Rose but it will not happen if you both keep on your present course which is harming rather than helping your spiritual development.
So what must change? You and Rose must acknowledge that you have gone astray!
You both must both acknowledge that you need the good Shepherd to teach you!
You must acknowledge that He is the truth and that your understanding of truth is lacking.
It’s a tough challenge, but you can both say “Yes” to recognising that Christ has words of life.
Desire to put your trust wholeheartedly in Him, for He can bring broken and contrite sinners home to the home of holiness.
Richard, I have seen your site before but was unaware that you had given up on Christianity. As a matter of fact, I wasn’t even looking for your site tonight (sorry), but maybe we were meant to meet.
You must get a lot of heat about having given up on Christianity.
I have questions too. As a matter of fact, I have problems with the doctrine of hell. Again, by coincidence, not looking for it, I came across some stuff written by Herbert W. Armstrong just last night. . I don’t necessarily agree with all that he writes but he is extremely logical (well not any more, he’s deceased). He puts forward an argument that hell is NOT eternal punishment. Peter Bluer (who I think you know of) also does not believe in eternal punishment. I don’t have an opinion yet, but I have a whole list of verses (from Mr. Armstrong) that I am going to be looking over.
Like I said, I have question too. I am a family physician and have a background in science. I don’t believe the earth is young. I don’t believe that dinosaurs roamed the earth just 6000 years ago. If they did, WE would be extinct. It’s easy to get over the idea that the word ‘day’ in Genesis 1 can easily mean a ‘period of time’. But even then, there are difficulties that simply do not make sense with the rest of the creation account. For instance: how could plant life survive, being created on ‘day 3’ if the sun wasn’t created until ‘day 4’. I never stopped believing that the Bible was the Word of God, but I was quite perturbed by Genesis 1. I made a rather bold prayer 2-3 years ago. I asked God if He would help me to understand Genesis 1. I read and reread Gen1 over and over. No go. In the past 6-9 months however, some thoughts came into my head while I was read about it while I was reading my astronomy magazine. For the first time in my life I have an understanding of Genesis 1 that I am completely happy with AND it fits with what scientists are saying (or visa versa). I have written a short explanation of this which I would be more than happy to send to you as an e-mail if you are interested. (Just send me a short e-mail and I will send it as an attachment).
The Bible is not always clear. There do appear to be contradictions or things that are illogical. First of all, sometimes there are answers that can be found. But who are we to expect that we should be able to understand them all easily. After all, God is God, and we are just clay. Secondly, God has secrets. The Bible even says, “The secret of the LORD is with them that fear Him”. There are other verses also that make it quite clear that God has secrets. Even when Jesus was on earth, his disciples often didn’t understand what He was trying to tell them. Toward the end they said to Him, “finally you are speaking in plain language that we can understand”.
I also find it disturbing and difficult to understand why God commanded the Israelites to wipe out all the nations of Canaan. I don’t have an answer. About a year ago I started making a list of things that I didn’t understand from the Bible. I have asked God, if it would please Him, to help me understand. I am totally blown away by what thoughts God has put in my head to give me clearer understanding.
I’m even a little blown away right now actually. I was not looking for your site. I was not looking for Mr. Armstrong’s site. I had no idea that I was going to be talking about this tonight, but just this afternoon I was saying the same thing to my wife; wondering why God seems to have made things less than 100% transparently clear. In thinking about it, I thought of 2 possible reasons. Both from Heb. 11:6. If God wanted to He could just come down and prove Himself to everyone. Done and done. But He wants to see our faith. The other thing is this. He wants to reward us…..for diligently seeking Him.
There are several responses to not understanding something, and they all have to do with the level of faith that we show.
1. “That doesn’t make sense….I quit”
2. Sure that makes sense. (ie. denial)
3. Well I don’t understand it, but the Bible says it, and that’s good enough for me. (Quite frankly, I don’t know what to call that, but that’s probably the most common).
4. I don’t understand but I’m going to do my best with God’s help to find out.
I checked back to your blog from a few years ago to see what you’re reasons were. You talked a bit about predestination and free will. Yes, all of creation including us, are, according to Colossians, essentially a figment of His imagination. And yet He created us with a free will. WOW. We obviously are going to have to accept that there are going to be some concepts that are beyond us. I saw a show years ago where they were discussing string theory. The one physicist said, “even if it’s true and we can describe it, doesn’t necessarily mean that we will be able to understand it any more than a chicken can understand calculus. We have equations, and the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics work and have been proven again and again, but nobody can really claim to understand them.
How can we understand something for which we have nothing to relate it to in the world that we can experience with our senses? How can you explain light or sight to someone who was born completely blind?
As far as predestination / free will is concerned: here’s my best shot: God made time. He is not restricted by. He is outside of time. He is existing in the past, present, and future all at once. Jesus said, “before Abraham was, “I AM”. Not “I WAS”. So we have free will, but He already sees what we are going to choose.
I remember my high school calculus teacher discussing extra dimensions. He said we wouldn’t be able to understand it any more than a 2 dimensional person would understand how we as 3D people could make our presence known (even operate on his internal organs – erase them and redraw them) but yet without being able to see us. We could put one hand on the chalk board in front of him and one behind him. In his understanding of things, there would simply be no way that he could comprehend how we could be in 2 places at once.
I heard a scientist once say wrt the ‘uncertainty principle’ of quantum mechanics that “even God wouldn’t know”. He clearly has no clue who and what God is. He does not exist within the dimensions of time and space. He created them, can make His presence known, can enter it, etc. but is not bound by them.
As far as answered prayers is concerned, He does answer. I while ago, I started “collecting” lists of Bible verses as I read through the Bible that had to do with different topics. Prayer was one of the topics. I copied them from a web site, put them in order and went through them. Certain patterns seemed to pop out at me. I get answers to my prayers. Today I asked God to give me something to do for His Kingdom. Usually I’m expecting to be able to give out a Bible. That didn’t happen today. I think my answer to prayer today is talking to you.
I am more than happy to continue this through e-mail if you are interested. I do NOT think that I have all the answers. I am hoping that I might have a few for you. If not, I would pray and ask God to show me if it was pleasing for Him to do so. Maybe we might even be able to figure some things out together.
One thing I will not do is pressure you. This is your journey. God is not afraid of our questions. He may or may not always answer. He may not be able to answer some things because of our inability to comprehend on this side of eternity. God didn’t really give an answer to Job except to say, “even if I told you, you wouldn’t understand because you don’t even understand the simple things like how I created everything”. That is very paraphrased of course, but that in a nutshell was his answer to Job.
Having said that however, according to Heb. 11:6, it seems that God pleases to reward those who diligently seek Him.
Hoping to hear from you. I will be praying for you.
Tim.
Hey there Reine,
You said “The holy Bible declares that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never truly was a Christian (1 John 2:19).”
If that’s true, then no one can know if they are are “real Christian” because no one knows whether or not they will reject their faith in the future. When I was a Christian, I said everything you would say about believing in Jesus. So if I was not a real Christian, then I have no reason to think you are a real Christian.
Richard
PS: You would do well to look up the “No True Scotsman” fallacy.
Hey there Reine,
You make many unfounded assertions.
No it’s not.
“Higher” does not mean “lower.” The “thoughts of God described in the Bible are not “higher” than mine or those of any good and sane person. On the contrary, the thoughts of God in the Bible are those of the primitive men that made them up. What sane ruler would murder 70,000 of his own citizens because the king he appointed conducted a census? That’s not just nuts – it’s grossly immoral. And what about God giving David Saul’s wives, and then taking them from him and giving them to his son Absolom to be raped on the roof top? Where is God’s love for those women? And what about his own teachings against incest? I could go on. The morality of the Biblegod is abominable.
There is no mistake in my judgment. The morals of the Biblegod are abominable.
He didn’t form anyone in the womb. But if he did, then he is a true monster. Have you never seen the disfigured monstrosities he has created? Watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-nHw0_Fos
Absolutely.
Your idea of “sensible” is irrational. What you really mean is that I wrote like a “believer.” When I look at my old writings, I can see that I was caught up in a delusion.
That’s because he doesn’t exist. You are simply deluded.
Been there, done that. I spent nearly twenty years “acknowledging” I had gone astray! This is why it’s so insane for you to tell me I wasn’t a Christian. If I wasn’t a Christian when I constantly repenting to God, praying every day, and believing God was real, and declaring that the Bible was God’s word, then it would be insane for me to think that I could become a Christian by doing those very things.
Look what you have done. You have proven that your concept of faith is vanity. My former faith was as true as any faith has ever been. It would make sense if you exhorted me to RETURN to my faith, but to tell me I never had real faith in the first place means that there is NOTHING I could ever do to get it since I already did everything you are telling me to do.
Hey there Tim,
Thanks for you very interesting (and long) comments.
I’ve never been impressed in the least by Herbert W. Armstrong. He’s always struck me as just another cult leader. That doesn’t mean he was wrong about hell – but if he was correct there is no need to appeal to anything he wrote. The question depends entirely upon your own interpretation of the Bible. But I see no value in such interpretations because the Bible is so ambiguous no one can agree about what it actually means. The most fervent “Bible believers” think other equally fervent “Bible believers” are heretics destined for hell (or annihilation, or whatever their peculiar interpretation may be).
One of the reasons I quit Christianity is because there is no such thing as “Christianity” but rather a confused and incoherent mass of “Christianities” that believers either make up for themselves or accept from others. It would have been easy for me to invent my own interpretations just like everyone else. And that’s when I realized that it obviously doesn’t matter what anyone believes about such things. They are all made up. If there were a god who inspired the Bible, he’s too confused to be believed.
You can send it to richard@biblewheel.com
The problem is not that the Bible is over our heads like some super-advanced textbook on Quantum Physics. The problem is that it is so far below the moral and intellectual standards of any normal citizen of the 21st century. If God inspired it, why did he make it look like any other book written by ignorant people with primitive morals? Why did he present himself as an irrational moral monster?
It’s fine if God has secrets. That would not be a problem for me. But it doesn’t help because I see no reason to think those “secrets” would resolve the problems with the plain things written in the Bible.
There are many problems like that. Why would God slaughter 70,000 Israelites in response to David taking a census that was never prohibited. Why would God take Saul’s wives, give them to David, then take them from him and give them to his son to be raped on the rooftop? Why would God allow Moses to command that all the males be killed, but 32,000 virgins be taken as “war booty”? And on and on it goes. The God portrayed in the Bible is an irrational moral monster.
Why would God want to see people believing things that they have no reason to believe? Doesn’t he understand that that would cause people to be easily deceived? All cults teach you must have “faith.” Why would God design his religion upon the pattern of the cults?
“Free will” is not something that can be “created.” And besides, God doesn’t have free will because there never was a time he didn’t know what he was going to do, so he never had an opportunity to make any choices. What then determined what God is and what God does?
The problem with the Bible is not what we don’t understand. The problem is with what we do understand. It is filled with sexism, violence, absurdities, primitive mythologies, and moral abominations attributed to God.
You comment makes no sense to me. If God was “outside of time” then he could not “do” anything because all actions entail time. He could not create time.
I have degrees in mathematics and physics. I am very comfortable with higher dimensions. The flatland analogy is fine as far as it goes, but I really don’t see how it applies to the god of the Bible or the idea that god is “outside of time.”
No one has a “clue” about God because he has chosen (assuming he exists) to remain in hiding. You have presented nothing but your own imaginations about God. I see no reason to think any god exists, especially a god with self-contradictory properties like being an “agent” who does things but is “outside of time.”
Your description is self-contradictory. It seems like you are imagining a god who is totally inside of time doing things like creating a universe. But that contradicts your assertion that he is outside of time.
I believe that is a delusion. Watch the video in my post for an explanation. If you disagree, please explain why.
I would prefer to chat here on my blog or on my forum so others can benefit.
I don’t have all the answers either, and I’m glad for that. I’ve only recently been able to debunk the many “answers” I thought I had which are posted all over this site.
Don’t worry about that! I delight in challenges and plain talk. Give me your best shot!
I have never seen a Christian give an answer that went anywhere near the limits of human understanding. On the contrary, the vast majority of “answers” Christians give are totally lame. Please don’t take offense. None is intended. I’m just letting you know what I really believe.
And that answer was absurd, because the “god” that was being quoted said nothing that indicated he had any understanding of anything. And why not? Because the man who wrote Job was utterly ignorant of the nature of reality, which could have been no other way given the time in which he lived.
I very much appreciate the conversation. If you want to pursue it, it may be better on my forum since the software allows for better formatting, easier reading, and such.
Great chatting!
Richard
Greetings Richard!
The ability to pray is God’s gift to man! Man can use prayer to thank Him. If man rejects prayer he can’t live honorably before God, because God teaches that His house shall be a house of prayer.
Prayerlessness is something to reject, because it falls short of glorifying God.
Do all you can to resume praying to the LORD!
“Debunk” is such an awful word, as it always conveys disdain towards the object of study. As such it is completely unnecessary: if a thing can be disproved, then disprove it. Personal antipathy does not need to come into it, and indeed, it weakens the argument.
Usually, it’s a “dog-whistle”, a signal to the like-minded that a hatchet job is in process.
I can understand why you now want to “debunk” the Biblewheel: it is the thorn in the side of your rejection of Christianity. However: there is a major problem here. The Biblewheel is real.
I anticipate that your “debunking” will take the following form: you will cite various tests you employed in your book which were intended to prove the truth of the Biblewheel, and you will now attempt to show how some of those tests do not provide the level of proof that you had claimed. For example, you will, I anticipate, show that some of the keyword frequency claims are not as robust as they could be, because they are performed on subsets of the Bible rather than the full book.
But all such rhetorical maneuvres will fall short of their intended effect. All they will show is that some of your “proofs” are flawed. They will not, however, be able to show that the underlying conception of the Biblewheel is fatally weakened, because, in fact, your original discovery is perfectly true.
The simple act of rolling the 66 books onto a 22 spoked wheel does, indeed, reveal a deep and cohesive structure to the entire Bible. Your book is an excellent, though certainly not perfect, defense of this proposition. Pointing out some of the imperfections in your original arguments will not touch the core argument.
I will look forward very much to reading your proposed article, and to testing my claims above against your “debunking”.
But there is something else. There is another element in this entire discussion about the Biblewheel which has, to date, remained publicly unknown.
Suppose, just for a moment, that God is real and the Bible is His word. If this was the case, then He would know that the day would come when Richard would renounce his faith. Hence, He might have chosen to provide an independent witness to the reality of the Biblewheel so that any future “debunking” by Richard could be effectively countered. Indeed, one might go so far as to suggest that, if God is real, the Bible is His word, and the Biblewheel concept is genuine, then he must have done so.
In fact, He did. The publication by Richard of his “debunking” will be the signal to begin to reveal the nature and details of this independent witness to the world.
If you say the evidence was cherry picked – i don’t think that’s the case. It should probably seen as inaccurate or not sufficient. Let’s say you search an online database the word “give”, it wouldn’t bring an accurate result because it doesn’t search “given” and whatever is derived from the root of “give”. So statistics is hard to prove in this case.
But my persuasion is not on searching 2 or 3 words within a verse but rather take a chapter or book and compare it to another book or chapter on the same Spoke.
My next challenge is to find at least 3 or more books/chapters/alphabetic verses that have an identical theme. There are.
But looking into these things we learn to relate things or compare things, as a result it’s a wonderful bible study because it would give us the understanding and ability to properly interpret apply the bible in our lives.
The significance of numbers not only touches the order of books and chapters and alphabetic verses, but also the numbers within the text. So don’t be surprised if a word or group of words seem to appear out of its’ Spoke. Or it could also have to do with the innerwheel of the set such as the 12 minor prophets books.
I was wondering why Zechariah talked about the 2 anointed ones in chapter 4 which relates to Revelation 11, since Zechariah is on spoke 16. But in the group of minor prophets it is the 11th book. It makes sense, also because 11 and 16 had certain words like “build” and “scatter” in common such as found in Genesis 11.
Hey there Simon,
It is good to hear from you. It’s been quite a while since we’ve talked.
I understand where you are coming from, since you are committed to the truth of the Bible Wheel as having been “confirmed” through your work with crop circles and numerology. So you “have a dog in this fight” as they say.
I really hope we can have a good discussion. In the past, we fell into a very bitter exchange with name calling and much irrationality. I hope we can avoid that this time. I think we both have much to gain in a principled, thoughtful conversation.
Well, since I haven’t written the article yet, it seems a tad premature for you to be leaping to such conclusions. If anything, it looks like a “dog whistle” to call you to begin attacking my unwritten article as a “hatchet job.” You have no justification for such an implication.
Hummm … either you’re a very good guesser, or you have been reading my forum. I posted an analysis like that about a month ago in this post in the thread The Bible Wheel, Numerology, and Cognitive Bias.
But that’s not the only error I found in my claims concerning the Bible Wheel. There are indeed some intriguing coincidences. The error was in claiming that those coincidences proved design. There is no evidence of that.
“Rhetorical maneuvres”? There is no “rhetoric” involved in showing that my claims were flawed.
As for the “underlying conception of the Bible Wheel” – the flaw is the assertion that there is a grand unifying pattern. That is not true. For example, the book of Colossians aligns with Joel. Where’s the “grand unity” in that? Or the alignment of 1 Thessalonians with Ruth. Are you saying that God designed it that way? Where’s the “unity”? I don’t see it.
The “core argument” is false. There are many interesting coincidences, but nothing like a “deep and cohesive structure” that encompasses all 66 books. I spent 15 years cherry picking every connection I could find. The result is about what one would expect from random chance. For example, I examined all 480 alphabetically structured passages and found that only 4.5% were uniquely connected with their corresponding spokes. And most of those connections were connected with things that contradicted the “deeply cohesive structure” of the wheel.
As do I!
It looks like we are going to have a very interesting conversation. I’m really glad you wrote.
Richard
Hey there Greg,
The statistics are not “hard to prove.” It is very simple and straightforward to prove that the words of the Bible are not distributed in the pattern of the Bible Wheel. I searched and searched for many years to find distributions that were maximized on individual spokes. My idea was that this would give statistical proof of the Bible Wheel. After many years, I found only about 45 that fit the pattern I was looking for. You can see them on my old Word Distributions page. There are many thousands of possible word distributions in the Bible, and only 45 that fit the pattern. So that’s statistical proof that the words of the Bible were not designed on the pattern of the Bible Wheel.
As for cherry picking – that’s exactly what you are doing. I know, because that’s what I did for many years. I would scan the Bible for any “hits” and ignore all the misses. What is the ratio of hits to misses? Off the top of my head, I would guess it’s at least a hundred to one, and more likely a thousand to one. Therefore, any claim of “design” based on such “hits” is the definition of cherry picking. Data is accepted as significant only if it confirms the pattern you are looking for. That’s the definition of confirmation bias. These kinds of cognitive errors is what creates the illusion of design.
And what is your method to discern between random chance and design? You have none? Why then would you think any of it is significant?
There might be a few here or there, but that’s what we would expect from random chance.
I agree. The Bible Wheel is a wonderful study tool for believers. But I wouldn’t have any confidence that it would help anyone “properly interpret the Bible” since they will just make the Bible Wheel fit their beliefs, not vice-versa.
And how do you tell if it was just a coincidence, or something with meaning “designed by God”? You can’t. So it’s all subjective, just like all numerology.
Those are connections that I would have found interesting when I was a believer. But not any more. When you allow yourself to make whatever connections are needed to “make sense” of something like the Bible Wheel, there is no way for you to discern between “real patterns” and those you made up in your effort to make “make sense” of it all. I’ve seen this happen to believers all the time. They get into some “pattern” – whether it’s astrology, numerology, the Bible Code (ELS), predicting the date of the rapture, the Bible Wheel, or whatever.
Great chatting,
Richard
I don’t think our way of looking statistics is accurate because when you check you look at the word distribution in books or chapters. But the numerical patterns show more than that. They also show the numbers within the text. So let’s say “pass over” falls somewhere outside of the 14th Spoke it’s because somewhere in the text the “fourteenth day” is mentioned. Ok let me give a good example:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=36&t=KJV
The “fourteenth year” of Hezekiah falls within 2 chapters. It’s not what we usually anticipate but still there are patterns.
The ones that got my attention I’m willing to share it with you, but I have to find my blog pages:
Comparing the 9th book 1Samuel 1 with the 9th chapter of 1Samuel shows a similiar manner of introduction of 2 key figures of the book:
http://gilgalsbiblewheel.blogspot.ca/2013/11/1samuel-9.html
So I ask, “if the 9th book is related to the 9th chapter of the 9th book, what about the 8th chapter of 1Samuel? Is it related to the 8th book Ruth?” And the answer is “yes”:
http://gilgalsbiblewheel.blogspot.ca/2013/11/1samuel-8.html
And there’s more:
The 24th book Jeremiah and the 24th chapter of Jeremiah are related.
In Acts 22 Paul summarizes his journey (Acts being on the 22nd Spoke).
But I’m not looking at individual words rather highlighting words and phrases that 2 or more texts share.
Hi richard,
I’ve been using your site for references on hebrew meanings and gemetria. It’s really helpful thank you for being a blessing. I’ve Just read all the confusions that is ongoing on the thread about why you quit. I pray that the veil of darkness be remove from your mind in the name of Jesus!
I strongly recommend “Pastor Joseph Prince” to be in your search/study list.
Shalom bro,
Dan
I thought I should add a few words. It’s true. In some cases i do feel that I’m cherry picking. But it would come to my conscience. But on the other hand I do see more patterns which made me change directions of how i do research. Many times I’ve come to a point where I’ve felt burnt out and felt that it’s a waste of time. But then when I pray and ask for guidance I would see further patterns.
Concerning the research of individual words led me at times to do a search of the Hebrew and found out they’re different. That makes me backtrack and drop that type of research and take a different direction.
But let’s say you search a word, you look at the Hebrew and form some statistics. I think this insufficient because you leave out the Greek and other tongues, for example the book of Daniel. So I find statistics have a flaw.
This is why I focus primarily by comparing texts and when necessary going to the original tongues afterwards.
Dan,
What “confusions” are you talking about? If you think I am confused about something, it would be helpful if you explained what.
As for “Pastor Joseph Prince” – why would you recommend I go learn from a man? Am I not a man? Maybe he should come and learn from me. Why do you believe him and not me? Because he says what you want to hear. That’s called confirmation bias. It is irrational. It is the root source of most delusions. I know, because I deceived myself for many years with things like confirmation bias and cherry picking. That’s why I believed gematria and the Bible Wheel.
All the best,
Richard
Dear Richard,
maybe this would help:
1. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEFC186CD9395CEFD
2. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD600CBC5F8A02DF0
Shalom all the best on your journey to truth.
Bosko
Hi Bosko,
Thanks for the suggestion, but I consider Michael Rood to be one of the most blatantly absurd charlatan clown preachers out there. He was a leader in the Way International cult for many years, and then decided to make up his own ludicrous religion. He predicted the “Day of the Lord” would happen back in the year 2000! Why would you believe a word he said?
Here’s some info that might help:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/687-michael-rood
http://www.isitso.org/guide/rood.html
11 October 2014 “Why I quit Christianity: Part 2” By R.A. McGough
Well now, McGough that’s Irish or Mc could be a Scottsman, yes? Let me pour you a two finger drink and get on with my reason for ‘posting’ my two cents.
I have a Maters degree myself which has often been my Achilles heel to date but I’m human and subject to making mistakes and I can’t allow a fellow human to throw in the ‘white towel’ on this business involving the bible. I enjoyed your threads and noticed you are giving and never receiving for your time, knowledge and love of the bible. I am willing to bet you are burned out? Take a break.
I don’t know how to preface what I’m about to say, so I will be blunt and say it. The Bible’s impact on each of us can be anything you want it to be. In hindsight, the Torah contained the ‘seeds’ that gave birth to the New Testament. It was emperor Ptolemy in 246 BC, who gathered 72 Torah sages sequestered into 72 separate rooms, each to produce a translation of the Torah into Greek! What language was the New Testament written into first? Greek.
I am comfortable saying that the ‘jews’ (today they are known as the ‘Freemasons’) control religion; not your typical stereotype pretending to be a Jew who takes the Hollywood Torah script and acts out the parts in his or her daily life. You understand? I’m talking about a Freemason, square and compass you see waking, driving, or skipping by a Masonic lodge, yes that one. (If you all could draw a beautiful Star of David, with a pencil of course, then take the butt of that pencil and erase the 2 parallel lines and slap a consonant, namely the letter ‘G’ in the center of that Star you would have yourself the Masonic symbol that your forefathers would even recognize.
Hopefully you took me up on that two finger drink I offered earlier… Our Bible is the Blue Print to our United States Constitution; there I said it. (The process of producing/making a diamond is applicable to the books and verses of the scripture) When you comprehend what I’ve just written, you will have a great appreciation for your country, your fellow citizen, and yourself.
America was the Great Experiment; it’s up to each and every one of us to do our duty to up keep this country and if not for you, please do it for our children’s sake! Let me not talk your ‘ear’ off, less I forget how to restore it!
Cheers
Hi David,
I’m not sure what to make of your comments. You touched upon many points that would require further elaboration to understand. I can see the connection between the masonic symbol (square and compass) and the Star of David, but I don’t see how that’s particularly relevant since the Star of David is a relatively recent symbol adopted by the Jews in the 18th century or so. Your assertion that the Bible is the “blueprint” of the constitution would also need elaboration. I understand, of course, that the founders were steeped in the Bible and biblical symbolism. E.g. they toyed with an image of Moses parting the Red Sea as the design of the the Great Seal. But again, that’s all just humans doing what humans do, i.e. make symbols to express their ideas. I don’t see any great significance in it.
I don’t see what your comment has to to with my post about quitting Christianity. Did I miss something?
If you would like to develop your ideas, I would invite you to register on my forum where the software is much better for such discussions. You could start your own thread on this topic.
https://www.biblewheel.com/forum/
Richard
13 (Columbus Day) October 2014 “Why I quit Christianity: Part 2″ By R.A. McGough
(Columbus was a Jew; look into how his Children signed their signatures in order to part take in their fathers estate, was it the Star of Solomon? or the Star of David? Couldn’t be the Masonic Symbol because you have to earn that; it’s not hereditary like your Jewishness is on your mothers side)
Hi Richard,
It makes sense to start a forum regarding the points I touched upon while corresponding with your site, however I am not permitted to take that stance, I’m a bit limited in my actions.
Should this be our last opportunity to chit chat, I wanted to secure in everybody’s mind that the Bible doesn’t belong to you all in Religion; you are given every constitutional right to voice your religious freedoms but they don’t bare any influence on the founding of America. We view you non-masons as ‘profane’, not to say you can’t change the disposition your in. I care not if you side with the ‘Thief’ on the left of Christ or the ‘Thief’ on the right side of Christ, the past and the future mirrored by regret and fear are not of my concern.
Every aspect of the books of the Bible are being played out in our Government, today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Torah (blah, blah, blah) is the Legislative Branch (and a mirror of the Judicial Branch), while the Gospels of Christ are the Executive Branch, there I said it again… If ever there was a horrible Solar storm and us survivors had a bible in hand, I could write another constitution all over again!
You quit Christianity, you haven’t even started! Acting out portions of scripture makes you nothing more than an ‘actor’ performing your part today. The book doesn’t belong to religion, never has; the safest resting place for your governance the Bible is that of the Public Domain. It’s genius on the part of our founding fathers.
Christianity my fellow citizen is a good bedrock for society, so long as the Churches continue to instill morality, hope, family unity, etc. I will continue with my last breath to support and uphold your constitutional rights to religious freedom and if you want to pretend to be a Jew I’ll support you in your quest! Judaism and Christianity gave us all through the bible our freedoms! Smoke that my good Scotsman or would you prefer a drink of the sort?
Cheers
Richard,
WOW! Very intriguing! In fact, there’s a lot of Christian ministries (especially Pentecostals) that are starting to drift in the direction of the “mystical” that you so diligently sought after. I find it fascinating.
I only have a couple of Bible verses to share with you:
“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.” (2Cor 11:3)
When you “debunked” your Bible Wheel, you didn’t debunk God, Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost … you just debunked your own, quantum-related wisdom of man.
A man is not “saved” or “born-again” by proving, through man’s wisdom, knowledge or reasoning, the Word of God … but by receiving the forgiveness of sin through faith in the blood of Christ … which I see no “evidence” in your writings that you ever truly did.
What I believe you DID experience, through all of your many mystical and mathematical musings, was an “angel of light” (deceiving demons) to draw you away into darkness.
“The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!” (Matt 6:22-23)
So, really, I believe you were never truly “born again” (even though you “mouthed” it) … which means you still have an opportunity to come to the knowledge of the Lord’s saving grace. But one must come as a little child … humble and in an attitude of repentance towards sin … not in your own wisdom, “puffed up by your fleshly mind” (Col 2:18).
Tim
Hey there Tim,
What would constitute “evidence” that would convince you a person had actually been born again? How do you know that your own faith is real and not merely “mouthed”? How do I know that you are not merely an egotist who enjoys judging the faith of others according to your own “wisdom” about what constitutes salvation?
Do you believe that all Christian apologists who form logical arguments to defend the Bible as God’s Word are therefore demonstrating that they are not saved?
Richard
Richard,
Thank you for your question. My response is simple, but according to the faith which is in Christ Jesus. Since you are a mathematician, and therefore have an understanding of Analytical Geometry, I trust that you will read/ponder/study the following and not just “skim” over the material:
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:” (1John 5:1)
You do not believe that Jesus is the Christ, therefore you are not “born of God”.
“And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth… If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” (1John 5:6, 9-12)
I believe the record that God gave of his Son, therefore I have the witness within myself that I am “born again”. You do not believe His record, therefore you do not have the “witness” within yourself that you have been “born again”, but rather, you have made God to be a “liar”.
“Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.” (John 4:2-3)
I have the witness of the Spirit of God within myself because I believe in my heart that Jesus Christ is “come in the flesh”. You do not believe in your heart that Christ has “come in the flesh”, therefore you do not have (and never had) the Spirit of God come into your heart; but, rather, you have in your heart that spirit of antichrist which is “…the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:” (Ephesians 2:2)
It all comes down to John 3: 3, 6-7:
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see (i.e. understand) the kingdom of God.” “That which is born of the flesh (i.e. man’s nature and wisdom) is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”
If you had ever been “born of the Spirit”, then you would have received at that moment His eternal Spirit … not the spirit of “antichrist” which you so openly manifest by your current words.
One final thought:
Being “born again” is an eternal (not temporary) act of God which He himself accomplishes in the heart of a true believer. It has NOTHING to do at all with the whimsical (and, therefore, changeable) beliefs of the human/fleshly mind … no matter how educated (or “enlightened”) that mind may be.
Tim
When I was a Christian, I would have cited the same verses and made the same claims as you. Please explain how you know that you are not deluded like I was.
Richard,
The scriptures I presented answers your question: It’s the “witness” given in the heart of a true believer by the Holy Spirit of God. It’s not mental … it’s spiritual. You never received that “witness”, because you were never a true believer … and God KNOWS that!
Therefore no matter what I tell you, you will not understand because the Word of God is spiritually discerned. It has nothing to do with mathematics or “mental assent”.
In the end, it’s a matter of FAITH. One can not “prove” FAITH because it has to do with spiritual laws, not physical laws. One can not “prove” the existence of God (or the truth in the Bible) by a mathematical formula on a chalk board … though you tried very hard to do so and managed to convince yourself for awhile that you had actually done it.
The trouble is, your mathematical formula (Bible Wheel) can never SAVE you or any one else … only FAITH in the testimony that God gave of His Son can save you! It’s that simple!
Can a person “prove” that God has forgiven him? Can you “prove” to me that you love a particular person? Can you “prove” to me that you have never hated someone or lusted after something you shouldn’t have? No … you can not! Because these things have to do with a person’s HEART … which only God knows.
The difference between you and me is you convinced yourself enough to “CITE” the Word of God with enthusiasm; whereas, I simply chose to BELIEVE the Word of God! That’s a BIG chasm that separates us.
However, it’s my belief and prayer that God is still extending His love and mercy towards you … waiting for the Word of God (that you diligently searched out) to take root in your heart and bear the fruit of humble repentance of sin, faith towards God and finally accept the wonderful gift of eternal life as Jesus Christ cleanses you with His precious blood. You’ll then be truly “born again” and receive the “proof” (or witness) within your own heart that you are so earnestly seeking!
Sincerely,
Tim
I’m sorry Tim, but you did not answer my question. When I was a Christian, I could have cited the same verses and made the same claims as you. I asked you to explain you know that you are not deluded like I was. The answer is obvious. You have no way to know. Therefore, your words are vain, just like your faith. You live in a world of childish make-believe that is willing to think it is special and anyone who disagrees is “not saved” and “cannot see the truth” because they “don’t have the witness of the spirit.” There is no “witness of the spirit” Tim. You are lost in a delusion built of empty words with no content.
Richard,
Fair enough!
I can accept that. At the very least, it puts us on the same geometric plane.
But I still choose to believe the “delusion” of the Word of God over your delusion of man’s “wisdom” … because God calls such wisdom FOOLISHNESS:
“For the wisdom of this world is FOOLISHNESS with God.” (1Cor 3:19)
“Because the foolishness of God is WISER than men;” (1Cor 1:25)
Therefore, “… the preaching of the cross is to them that perish FOOLISHNESS;” (1Cor 1:18)
So, “… in the wisdom of God THE WORLD BY WISDOM KNEW NOT GOD, it pleased God by the FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE.” (1Cor 1:21)
Sincerely,
Tim
Hey there Tim,
I am not on the same “geometric plane” as you. You are on the same plane as all other people who believe things with no justification, such as Muslims, Mormons, Catholics, Hindus, and members of the Heaven’s Gate cult. Your category of “man’s wisdom” is meaningless. It has no content because no human has access to any other kind of wisdom. Your belief that your beliefs constitute “supernatural wisdom” is just as delusional as the belief that Joe Smith received supernatural powers to translate his imaginary golden plates. You have not written a word that would indicate otherwise. You have presented your beliefs as a totally arbitrary choice to believe what others humans have told you to believe.
I’m glad you have pursued this topic, as it is an important example of the irrational nature of religious beliefs.
Great chatting!
Richard
Richard,
Psalms 14:1 … I rest my case!
Tim
Ha! You call that a case? It’s pure delusion. You yourself have explained that you simply “chose” to believe the Bible without reason. How are you any different than any other cult member? The truth is that the fool has said in his heart “I will believe what other people tell me without any evidence.”
Theory of reality:
What do we really know?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1t3dP66nJlub0lFOTRtYU5yUkU/view?usp=sharing
Understanding Reality
Time, gravity, the stretching out of space and the second law of thermal dynamics are linked in a
manner which has yet to be described.
The resolution of a system defines the limits of any value assigned to it. Infinity could be the changing
At the finest scale what we end up with is unity.
If reality contains both infinity and unity then it is either is a multifaceted jewel or the singularity
It is variation that creates reality. Everything in the universe is vibrating and emitting light.
It may be fluctuation of probabilities or fractal reiteration with varying degrees of freedom in an
information field stored holographically.
Can the past present and future appear together at a certain scale?
Is it a precise computation with an outcome that is certain?
What if reality is a set of Russian dolls nested inside of one another. Each doll is one tick of time and it
is we who are moving, or our consciousness?
Is time the framework in which choices are made? Could it be the vehicle for our fractal journey?
If I have valuable information and you reject it.
I am not obligated to fight with you until I make my point, unless this information is helpful to you in
1. This deception in the garden is a fractal expression of how we perceive the world around us. We
need to get back to the unfiltered eyes of a child that can see all of the possibilities. This to me speaks
2. This passing the buck behavior (by Adam) says that I am not responsible for my actions. This would
3. The truth is that I am in fact my brothers keeper and I should care about his welfare.
If I am having an argument trying to prove my point, then my ego is involved and I have put up a brick
wall. My ego/your ego is impenetrable. No useful information will be conveyed.
Why do you consider Nestle Aland 27 (NA27) as the Original Text?
For example satan was removed in Luke 4:8 (in the NA27 version)
Never use any bible based on the Nestle-Aland/United Bible Society (NA/UBS) text.
Additional even Scrivener cannot be considered as the Original Text in Greek language.
http://textus-receptus.com/wiki/191_Variations_in_Scrivener%E2%80%99s_1881_Greek_New_Testament_from_Beza%27s_1598_Textus_Receptus
What makes you think that I consider Nestle Aland 27 (NA27) as the Original Text? No one knows what was in the original text.
When you say that “Satan was removed in Luke 4:8” you are assuming it was in the original. How do you know that? It is missing from some ancient Greek manuscripts and scholars have concluded that it was added later.
On your question: What makes you think that I consider Nestle Aland 27 (NA27) as the Original Text?
It is mentioned in your comment on Database Features: Verse Selection
The text of the King James version is displayed in the upper left section, with the data from Strong’s Concordance below it on the left, and the verse in the original Hebrew or Greek below on the right.
On the right you can select in Greek the Nestle Aland 27 (NA27) as the Original Text.
http://www.heritagebbc.com/archive3/0181.html (See on this link)
Luke 4:8 – “Get behind me Satan” is referenced to a footnote at the bottom of the page which reads, “NU omits, Get behind me Satan.” (NU = Nestle Aland 26 / UBS)
The Luther translation (1545), King James Version 1611, Dutch Statenvertaling 1637 and the Russian Synodal Text all include this text.
Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus are corruptions
http://www.1611kingjamesbible.com/codex_vaticanus.html/
OK, I get it. You misunderstood what I meant. When I said “original Greek.” I was referring to the language of the original. I did not say that it was the “original manuscript.” That should have been obvious since I provide two versions of the “original Greek” – the NA27 and the TR of Stephanus. Here is what I wrote on that page (link):
Obviously, I was referring to the “original Hebrew or Greek language,” not the “original manuscript” which everyone knows does not even exist.
How do you know they are corruptions? Are you are KJV Only believer? Do you believe that the KJV is an inspired English translation?
Thanks for your explanation on “original Greek”
The corrupted versions are from Alexandrië.
I am not a KJV1611 Only believer. This version has also some issues. Most of them are explained on:
http://watch.pair.com/TR-kjv-issues.html
Therefore I always compare the KJV 1611 with the Luther translation (1545), Dutch Statenvertaling 1637 and the Russian Synodal Text.
http://bijbel.hispage.nl/index.php
When finding differences, I try to understand the Greek text behind the differences and therefore your site is very helpful.
You’re welcome!
What makes you think they are corrupted?
We don’t have the originals, so the best we can do is compare all the various copies. That’s called the science of textual criticism.
Basically it comes to 2 main type of translation paths.
Path 1 is based on Antioch.
Path 2 is based on Alexandria.
http://www.mpbiwv.com/downloads/Path%20of%20Preservation.pdf
http://www.mpbiwv.com/downloads/Translations%20Compared.pdf
Now we already have a new Nestle Aland 28 version with the following updated books since Nestle Aland 27, which is on your website.
ECM-Variants James
ECM-Variants 1. Peter
ECM-Variants 2. Peter
ECM-Variants 1. John
ECM-Variants 2./3. John and Jude
Enough evidence that the bible is changed again.
The Nestle Aland is using Path 2 from Alexandria, which is not only used in the Catholic church now but also in a lot of Christian churches.
Kurt Aland visits pope John Paul II, 1984. (See picture at the end of this document)
http://www.undermytree.net/Texts/The%20Bible%20-%20a%20Battlefield%20PART%202.pdf
I am surprised by your reasons for leaving the faith. I would have expected something else, because at least to me it seems your reasons are misunderstandings. You seem to base a lot on rational thought and logic as opposed to just living by faith, but your reasons are not rational. Are you now an Atheist or do you still believe in a Deity of some sort?
1. Hell
If God is good, He must be a righteous judge. Therefore He must judge sinners, of which we all are. If God in the end allows all wicked sinners into His kingdom how could He be considered just? This would then prove He is not good. But the very fact that He judges evil and separates Himself from it shows His goodness. Therefore Hell is required and a natural byproduct of a good God. God is Love, God is Light, if you spend eternity apart from Him (based on your own choice) then you will experience Hell which is naturally unpleasant because it is separation from God. Without Evil (hell) how would we differentiate the Goodness of God?
If a man brutally murdered someone close to you (God forbid), would you expect the judge to just let the man go free? Would the judge be a good judge if he did so? He would not be a “loving” judge and therefore not a good judge, he would be considered worse than the murderer. In the same sense God must be Just because He is good by nature and must separate himself from sinners/the wicked. In the same manner we are that murder and even much worse in our sinful condition. Thank God He provided a way for us to escape hell (because He loves us, but loves us enough to allow us to come freely of our own will)
2. The Bible contains many errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God.
I don’t know of any errors or contradictions. Every supposed error and contradiction has always been a misunderstanding of the text, or a reading out of context. There are many extremely intelligent people that would agree with me, not all Christians are empty headed or non-intellectuals. (See some of Dr. William Lane Craig’s debates). As for the moral abominations, God who is all knowing would have His reasons for killing men, women, and children. He as their creator has the right to decide how and when they die; He knows their destiny in the end. God knew what would have happened to everyone of them if He had not commanded their destruction. You and I just don’t have all the information and to write God off as committing a moral abomination is in my opinion not a fair judgment for us to make. The Canaanites were cutoff to prevent the corruption of Israel. They practiced detestable things, such as burning their own children alive to honor their false gods, bestiality and many other vile things. If God were to allow the Israelites to become corrupt that could have very well tainted the genetic line of Christ who was to come and allow salvation for all of us. So was God being immoral by sacrificing a few to bring salvation to the majority of the human race? Wouldn’t it have been just has “immoral” if God would have allowed Israel to become corrupted by the Canaanites and therefore corrupt the line of messiah to come? The children were obviously innocent, and I believe they are with the Lord now, God is just and righteous, do you think He would send innocent people into hell?
3. God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers.
I’m sorry this was your experience, everyone experiences answered prayers differently. I have had answered prayers, some very specific and would have been very unlikely to happen by random chance. In my experience my prayers have always been answered in ways I didn’t expect. Often times I think many people overlook the answered prayer.
But the bottom line is, even if God didn’t answer any of my prayers and I lived a life of sorrow and pain….what Christ did is already enough. God’s already been more graceful than He even has to be, I deserve hell….but while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
I see you have pretty much made up your mind and nothing I could say or do would change it. At this point all I can do is pray for you. God grants you a free will and if you would rather ignore Him, or pretend He doesn’t exist…or reject His revelation of himself to the world (Jesus Christ) then that’s your God given choice to make.
It seems you have placed a moral standard upon God. You say God shouldn’t have created a place called Hell, you say God shouldn’t have commanded the destruction of the Canaanites, and that God should answer prayers more often or differently. Upon what moral standard do you hold these views? After all, God is the one who has placed the moral standard in our hearts and has communicated it through the scriptures. God is good, God is just, God does answer prayer.
have a look at the following: fractals
fractals occuf when there is iteration and non linearity, like taking a nonlinear process and feed back some form of its output to its input. it can be shown, specifically, for a certain iteration, laid out in a grid, and various groupings made using digital roots/modular mathematics, a fractal effect occurs where the same sequence of numbers appears at higher and higher levels of groupings, always keeping the same digital roots, jn all and every level..if that’s not a way to show the perfect chaotic conditions or the infinitely structured, perfect prison for man’s wandering mind to stay put
1/x-1 = 1/(x-1) – 1/x + 1/x**2 + 1/x**3 +…. 1/x**n
try to link the above with this iteration 396693 , its mirrored, rotationally symmetric, pivoting, affine, self similar, gliding reflectional, with also a central point for the symmetry, its brilliant. .
I left a couple of links for your focus to align on this, look at quasitiling for some more information too..
^_^
Your website shows the Scrivener Textus Receptus of 1894 (the same as 1881)
However there is another Textus Receptus from Scrivener dated 1860.
http://historiayverdad.org/biblias-textos-biblicos/Textus-Receptus-StephensScrivener-1860.pdf
In this document Scrivener shows additional the Lachmanni, Tregelles, Tischendorf updates.
As far as I know all Textus Receptus published since 1881 have major corruptions in it.
How do you know if the updates were “corruptions” of the original manuscripts? The updates were based on evidence that they more accurately represent the original manuscripts. In other words, the updates corrected corruptions that had entered into the TR. It sounds like you are simply assuming that one version of the TR from the 15th century accurately represents the original manuscripts. Is that correct?
Tischendorf is well known for his finding of the Codex Sinaiticus in a waste basket.
This Codex differs more as 14000 times from other reformation bibles, but has become the standard for todays bibles.
That means that all other 5300 – 5500 manuscripts would be corrupt.
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2014/pastorbob1026-2.htm
And why is there CopyRight on modern bibles from Rupert Murdoch?
The differences in the Textus Receptus versions of the 15th century are not that much.
For example Beza uses the word Beelzeboub in Matthew 10:25 instead of Beelzeboul.
But in all his other chapters he used the correct word Beelzeboul.
I would reject most of the new modern KJV versions when finding them in a waste basket.
With reformation bibles I mean the first bibles, which started after the reformation in the period of Erasmus. But I also do not trust todays bibles, which are called reformation bibles. Therefore I understand this is confusing.
It is indeed better to compare the original Greek Manuscripts.
I am not “boasting” about anything. I am merely stating the fact that I believed in God then just like you do now. If anyone is “boasting” it is someone like you who claims that your beliefs were “given by God” which implies that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. That’s the most arrogant thing I could imagine anyone ever saying.
So now you speak as if you were God himself? How exactly do you know if I had a “living faith” or not? I am guessing you are simply assuming that anyone who leaves the faith never had it in the first place. There are many problems with that. First, it’s just your opinion. Christians differ on whether “true believers” can lose their faith. The Bible is not clear on that point at all. Second, you don’t know if I have really lost the faith. Maybe I’m just confused, and I was actually saved in the past and so cannot be lost now despite my many words. Third, by your standard, there is no way for YOU to know if YOU have are saved because it may be that tomorrow you will lose your faith. You have no way to know.
I was able to have a “living faith” just like yours because I used to believe that God existed.
Is there any reason your “living faith” could not be a delusion like mine was? If not, please explain why not. So far, you have given no reason for your faith that is any different than a typical mindless cult member. Please take no offense, as none is intended. My point is that your faith appears to be utterly blind and irrational and you seem oblivious to this fact.
Here’s the problem – the faith I once had was identical to yours. You say I should pray? Fine, I used to pray. So what’s the difference? What exactly are you saying I should do now that I failed to do then? Please explain.
Richard, true faith results in a love for the God of the holy Bible. No matter what anyone says if they don’t love the Author of life then they don’t have true faith. You and Rose should return to Bible Study because you both write against the only true God.
Let Him teach you both what true faith is! Richard, do some serious Bible study.
R. A. McGough,
I’ve used your Wheel website before over the years when researching various numbers in regard to scriptural interpretation. And it always seemed a bit ‘codex heavy’ with mathematical intensity. But, when used with ‘some’ of the Strong’s concordance and (Hebrew/Greek Lexicon) numbers it became helpful in my research. Disappointed to read of your new found renouncement of your beliefs, but not surprising. After reading the beginning origins of your journey, during those Hippie days, which my husband and I so fully understand as old ex-Hippies ourselves. It is clear how you ended up with your past and current conclusions. Actually the outcome of your denouncement of Christianity is wrought by an original misconception, proving why there are NOT many pathways to God. Mysticism, Mathematics, Astrophysics, Theology, or Biblical exegesis, none of these ways or means lead to the Truth. This is indeed why Jesus Christ said to Nicodemous “you must be born again!” Born of The Spirit, not of the flesh (the carnal mind). The carnal mind is your ability to intellectualize, that which you cannot possibly understand with your natural mind of reasoning. For you (and it ‘your natural mind’) are not capable of interfacing with perfection(God). So as a natural man (or woman or human being) you/we/them/us/ attempt to rationalize God (The divine Creator Father) and by so doing, lose faith completely. Christ The divine Son, explained this journey by faith simply… but profoundly hard for the natural mind to understand, when He said “you must be born anew (or again). This is not mystical or calculable but a divine act done by a perfect Creator that humanity simply must accept in faith. The carnal, (or natural) mind is at enmity with this Perfection, and intellectualizing ‘God’ is the antithesis of true faith. The Holy Spirit entering your self reasoning mind is the only operation and function by which any human being can be saved. It is a NEW birth, a NEW you that overcomes your propensity to be limited. And it is a gift of God lest any human being would have the temerity to brag about it. The early primitive church disciples called this ‘the Grace of God.’ The modern “church culture” with its social order should be repellant to any natural thinking individual. For it has departed from The Truth, on far too many levels for far too long. However, the true Christian, knows that they are not given many truths on the way to Life, but they are given a Person Who is The Truth, the Way and the only Life worth having. It was done in this Way to confound the “aspiring wise” and the counsels of naturally educated ungodly men. Also done in this Way in order to confound the powers and principalities in the heavenly atmospheres which natural humanity does not see or know the existence of. Just because you do not understand something doesn’t mean it doesn’t co-exist near you. Human beings only access (or use) one tenth of their tiny pea brains, how much more than that is The great Creator Who fashioned the galaxies in the span of His Hand? Remember the words of The Savior, ” all those who ask receive, all those who seek will find, and to them that KNOCK, the Door will be opened.”
It is my hope that you Knock on the door today!
Sincerely,
CC in AZ.
Hello Richard,
First I want to thank you for being so “consistent” in answering all the posts that flood your web page.
It is very evident that you are a sincere seeker of the TRUTH, and I pray that you will give me equal time in presenting you with view or perspective that I have yet to read in the posts above.
Before we can address your OLD TESTAMENT & HELL “concerns”, we must address the obvious issue, and I say this respectfully Richard, for whatever reason, and there can be many, but you never received a REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST.
The only people who can walk away from JESUS are those HE has NOT “revealed” himself to.
If someone does not have a “reality” of Jesus in their life, why would anyone want to follow someone that they do not “KNOW”?
This is where the “Born Again” experience comes in because alot of people do not understand what this experience is and I hope you will allow me to give you a “different” perspective than what you may of been taught or what maybe you have come up with in your own mind or understanding.
“Except a person be “BORN AGAIN” or (from above) HE CANNOT SEE the kingdom of God” (John 3:3)
This “spiritual” BIRTH that Jesus said that WE MUST HAVE, is an “encounter” with God Himself, where God “reveals” Himself to us, in REALITY.
God does not intend for us to believe in Him without some sort of “evidence”.
Jesus told the woman at the well….
“Ye worship YE KNOW NOT WHAT:: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE WORSHIPERS shall worship the Father in spirit
and IN TRUTH: for the Father SEEKETH SUCH to WORSHIP HIM.” (John 4:22,23)
Here Jesus says that in order to worship the Father, you must KNOW WHO HE IS.
And if you do not know who He is, then you are worshiping something in VAIN.
This is basically what Jesus told Nicodemas in John 3, a respected “religious” leader who was
supposed to be a “representative” of God, but only knew the Word on paper, but not the WORD MADE FLESH.
This is where the “Born Again” experience comes in.
A “birth” is a TANGIBLE EXPERIENCE which is the “result” of a SEED being planted.
When a man plants his “seed” into a woman in “good” ground, it takes 9 months before that “manifestation” comes forth.
When Jesus explained the Parable of the Sower Sows the Word, he said…
“The SEED is the WORD of GOD.” (Luke 8:11)
When “mans” SEED is planted, at the HARVEST, ….. a MAN is REVEALED.
When an “orange” SEED is planted, at the HARVEST, …an ORANGE.is REVEALED.
Likewise, when the SEED of GOD (the word of God on paper) is planted in our hearts, in GOOD GROUND, at the HARVEST,.GOD is REVEALED to us, which is a REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST.
This is how God REVEALS His WORD to us, when the WORD (Jesus) is MADE FLESH or REAL to us. It is when JESUS “confirms” to us “super-naturally” by the SPIRIT of GOD, that what we have been planting in our hearts is truly the Word of God.
Now we must understand that in this Parable, which Jesus said is the Parable that REVEALS all the Mysteries of the Kingdom of God, there are 4 types of GROUND, and 3 of these grounds are BAD GROUND and do not produce any “Fruit” or REVELATION of God.
If you study the parable, Jesus tells us EXACTLY what will keep someone from receiving REVELATION
or the “Born Again” experience, and it all has to do with “Spiritual Wickedness” in the unseen realm.
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:12)
But the “KEY” to receiving a HARVEST from the WORD is this:
“But that on the GOOD GROUND are they, which in an honest and GOOD HEART, having heard the word, KEEP IT, and bring forth fruit WITH PATIENCE.” (Luke 8:15)
The Key in this verse is KEEP IT & bring forth fruit or “revelation” WITH PATIENCE.
KEEP IT means to CONTINUE SOWING THE WORD until a HARVEST comes.
This is where alot of people “Fall Away”, they do not receive a REVELATION quick enough for them and they do not understand that the Harvest is in God’s timing, not ours.
“It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.”
(Acts 1:7)
The reason that we must CONTIUALLY SOW the WORD is that MOST of the SEED is falling into BAD GROUND which does not produce “fruit” or a REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST”.
” If ye continue in MY WORD, then…..ye shall KNOW the TRUTH, and the truth shall make you free.”
(John 8:31,32)
Here Jesus reveals that it is HIS WILL to reveal HIMSELF to us in REALITY, when we do what He says.
He says we will KNOW THE TRUTH, which IS HIM, JESUS, (He said “I am the Truth”), and this will set us FREE because NOW WE KNOW WHO HE IS BY REVELATION of the SPIRIT of GOD, which is supernatural and bypasses the natural realm.
Now our “spiritual” eyes are opened, where before, we had no REALITY of GOD.
This is the BORN AGAIN EXPERIENCE.
And whoever has this EXPERIENCE, will NEVER WALK AWAY FROM JESUS, ITS IMPOSSIBLE!!
Richard, we are all born into this natural world NOT KNOWING who God is, but this is why GOD WAS MADE FLESH and came down to this Earth with His Words to give us, which are in SEED FORM and when planted in the human heart, will bring forth a REVELATION of who HE is.
I hope that you will REVISIT this parable of the SOWER SOWS the WORD, because in it is hidden all the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven and the Parable is so SIMPLE a child can understand it.
No one can really “understand” the Word of God UNTIL they have this BORN AGAIN EXPERIENCE..
“But the NATURAL MAN RECEIVETH NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he KNOW them, because they are SPIRITUALY DISCERNED.”
(1st Corinthians 2:14)
For many years I have had the same questions you did concerning somethings in the OLD TESTAMENT, and I have recently received some LONG AWAITED answers from the Lord.
But until our spiritual eyes are opened by JESUS, it does no good to worry about other questions.
We will always have questions which God will answer in DUE SEASON.
But we must wait on the Lord, we cannot give up because an answer doesnt come fast enough.
The “Born Again” experience happens in the NEW COVENANT, a better covenant than the OLD,..
“For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins….but by JESUS’ own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”
(Hebrews 10:4; 9:12)
Until our sins are forgiven by the blood of Christ, the Holy Spirit cannot move in to our ‘”body”.
And without the Holy Spirit it is IMPOSSIBLE to have understanding of the scriptures.
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the HOLY GHOST” (2nd Peter 1:20,21)
Richard, I thank you for taking the time to read what I have written.
I hope you respond so that I can return and share some of the questions the Lord has answered concerning the OLD TESTAMENT and HELL.
I am sure that you will be quite suprised at the answers.
MAY THE LOVE AND PEACE OF JESUS BE YOURS AND YOUR FAMILYS’ FOREVER….
“
A more accurate statement would be that your religion has made you into a fool who merely asserts religious dogmas with no intelligence. Your religion has taught you it is a virtue to reject rationality and to embrace blind belief. Your religion is a mind killer.
That’s a pretty scary use of “scare quotes” my friend. When you put “intellectual” in scare quotes, what are you trying to imply? That I’m not really using my intellect? That there is no such thing as authentic intellect? Or that the human “intellect” is nothing compare to the childish “wisdom” you are so skillfully displaying?
And as for “respectfully” – did you mean to imply that you actually have no respect for someone who disagrees with you?
It looks like you are saying that I am not really an intellectual and you are not really respectful.
Dear Richard,
No matter how I answer you…
You are NOT going to receive it, because YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN, YOU MUST HAVE YOUR SPIRITUAL EYES OPENED BY JESUS HIMSELF.
I don’t care how many books you have written, YOU ONLY KNOW THE “LETTER” of the WORD.
YOU ONLY KNOW THE WORD OF GOD ON PAPER, WHICH IS IN “SEED FORM”…..
IT TAKES THE HOLY SPIRIT TO MAKE THE WORD (Jesus) “FLESH” or “REAL” IN US.
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS LIKE THE “WATER” THAT WATERS THE SEED, WHICH is GOD’S WORD.
THE HOLY SPIRIT BRINGS THE WORD (Jesus) TO “LIFE”, WHERE IT IS “LIVING”
THE WORD OF GOD ON PAPER IS A “SEED” THAT LAYS “DORMANT” UNTIL IT IS PLANTER IN GOOD GROUND.
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE HOLY SPIRIT ONLY COMES TO DWELL INSIDE THOSE WHO RECEIVE THE BLOOD OF JESUS FOR THE REMISSION OF THEIR SINS.
THE BLOOD OF JESUS MAKES OUR HEART “GOOD GROUND” SO THAT THE “SEED” OF GOD’S WORD (on paper) CAN BE PLANTED IN OUR HEARTS.
AFTER THIS, THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN COME TO DWELL WITHIN US AND WATER THE SEED OF GOD’S WORD, BRINGING THE WORD (Jesus) TO “LIFE” WITHIN US.
THIS IS THE “EXPERIENCE” THAT YOU SEE ALL THE PEOPLE OF GOD HAVE IN THE SCRIPTURES.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW TESTAMENT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT.
IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, THE HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT “LIVE” ON THE INSIDE OF THE PEOPLE BECAUSE OF “SIN”.
THE “STONY HEART” KEPT THE SEED OF GOD’S WORD FROM BEING PLANTED IN MENS HEARTS, THEREFORE THIS ACCOUNTS FOR DISOBEDIENCE AND THE BREAKING OF GODS COMMANDMENTS.
YOU CANNOT PLANT SEEDS IN ‘STONE !!!
THIS IS WHY GOD SPOKE ABOUT THE NEW COVENANT IN Jeremiah & Ezekiel and EXPLAINED EVERYTHING PERFECTLY:
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“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT…. I will put my law in their inward parts, and WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; (Jeremiah 31:31,33)
“A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put WITHIN YOU and I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put
MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, and cause you to walk in my statutes..” (Ezekiel 36:26,27)
********************************************************************************************************************
NOTICE GOD SAYS THAT IN THE NEW COVENANT, HE WILL WRITE HIS WORD IN OUR HEARTS, WHICH MEANS HE COULD NOT DO THAT UNDER THE OLD COVENANT BECAUSE OF THE STONY HEART OF “SIN”. THE BLOOD OF JESUS TAKES CARE OF THAT UNDER THE NEW COVENANT AND ALLOWS GOD TO GIVE US A HEART OF FLESH WHICH CAN NOW RECEIVE THE SEED OF HIS WORD.
THEN HE PUTS HIS SPIRIT WITHIN US TO BRING THE SEED TO LIFE WITHIN US,
THIS IS HOW GOD WRITES HIS LAW INTO OUR HEARTS.
If you can not see that this is the PARABLE of the ‘Sower Sows the Word” that Jesus taught, then there is really nothing more I can say except ‘You Must Be Born Again”.
Richard, I apologize if my earlier post offended you, God is my witness, it was not my intention.
I really do understand your concerns and questions about certain things, especially in the Old Testament.
But FIRST we must start out in the New Testament with the Words of Jesus until we are Born Again.
We cannot go any ‘further” in God until we have this face-to-face with Jesus.
I hope that soon, you will re-visit MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE & ESPECIALLY JOHN, and ask God to give you “fresh” eyes. I know that would be difficult for you considering the conclusions that you have already come up with, but I believe it is possible.
The Lord gave me a Parable for people that God has not YET revealed His Word to….
If you had a “seed”, and you did NOT KNOW what kind of seed it was, what would you have to do to FIND OUT WHAT KIND OF SEED IT IS ?…….
Plant it in Good Ground and wait for the Harvest…
Jesus said, ‘The Seed is the Word of God” (Lk 8:11)
Take Care Richard, I hope we can talk some more soon,
Sincerely,
Chuck
.
Not true. The reason I won’t receive it is because your claims are demonstrably delusional. You mindlessly parrot verses without understanding. You have not responded rationally to any of the answers I’ve given you. You have done nothing but confirm that dogmatic religion damages the believer’s mind and integrity.
Richard,
REVELATION FROM GOD IS NOT RECEIVED THROUGH THE CARNAL OR RATIONAL MIND..
REVELATION IS IMPARTED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD TO OUR HUMAN SPIRIT.
REVELATION BYPASSES THE CARNAL MIND……IT IS SPIRIT TO SPIRIT…
MAN CANNOT “REVEAL” SPIRITUAL TRUTH TO ANOTHER MAN,
IT COMES FROM GOD HIMSELF TO YOU, AFTER YOU RECEIVE THE BLOOD OF JESUS FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS SO THAT YOU CAN RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
No other book in the world can READ YOUR MAIL like the Word of God…
IT IS WRITTEN….
“Truly, Truly, I say to you, We speak that which WE KNOW, and testify about that which WE HAVE SEEN, and YOU RECEIVE NOT OUR WITNESS.” (John 3:11)
“And YOU HAVE NOT HIS WORD ABIDING IN YOU, for whom he hath sent, him YOU BELIEVE NOT.” (John 5:38)
“He that is of God HEARS GOD’S WORDS: you therefore HEAR THEM NOT, because you are not of God.” (John 8:47)
“But if our gospel be hid, IT IS HID TO THEM THAT ARE LOST, IN WHOM THE GOD OF THIS WORLD HAS BLINDED THE MINDS OF THEM WHICH BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the glorious gospel of JESUS CHRIST, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” (2nd Corinthians 4:3,4)
“But their MINDS WERE BLINDED, and to this day whenever the OLD TESTAMENT is being read,
the same VEIL COVERS THEIR MIND so that they CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH. And this VEIL can ONLY BE REMOVED BY BELIEVING IN JESUS CHRIST.” (2nd Corinthians 3:14)
Now the HOLY SPIRIT tells us CLEARLY, that in the last days, some will DEPART FROM THE FAITH; and will follow DECEPTIVE SPIRITS and TEACHINGS THAT COME FROM DEMONS.”
(1st Timothy 4:1)
“After this many of JESUS’ DISCIPLES QUIT FOLLOWING HIM and WALKED NO MORE WITH HIM..
(John 6:66)
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Richard, this is my last point……
In this last scripture, (John 6:66), these committed followers of Jesus stopped following Him because of SOMETHING JESUS SAID THAT THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND….
Jesus said that HIS WORDS OFFENDED THEM.
Had these followers just WAITED UNTIL AFTER THE RESSURECTION, they would have been
BORN AGAIN and RECEIVED PERFECT UNDERSTANDING OF THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE
that day to them.
NOBODY COULD BE BORN AGAIN UNTIL AFTER THE RESURRECTION……
(Notice also the chapter and verse # 666, which fits PERFECTLY with the subject of them
“Walking Away” from Jesus Christ, revealing that the “spirit of anti-christ” was the spirit influence behind their DECISION.)
“And these are they which are sown on STONY GROUND who, when they have
HEARD THE WORD, immediately receive it with gladness; but they have NO ROOT IN THEMSELVES, and so ENDURE ONLY FOR A WHILE: but afterward, when affliction or persecution arises FOR THE WORDS SAKE, immediately THEY ARE OFFENDED.”(Mark 4:17,17)
Richard, You already KNOW that God Loves You….
God would not of left His throne, become a man, and suffer terribly for us to forgive us our sins if He did not Love us…
Forget about the Old Testament & the questions you have for now….
God will answer these questions for you in DUE SEASON…
JESUS & HIS WORDS AND HIS ACTIONS REVEAL the Love of God for us….
Believe Jesus & His Words….
Take Care Richard,
Sincerely,
Chuck
You sure got that right! Your irrational “revelation” is not received through the “rational mind.”
So what exactly is the difference between your beliefs and the ravings of a schizophrenic? You admit your beliefs are irrational. And you have no evidence. Why aren’t you a Muslim, Mormon, or Hindu? You believe what you believe without any evidence. Please explain the difference between a Christian and any other cult member.
Yeah, I noticed that when I was a believer. I thought it was pretty cool. Of course, 666 is also the gematria of “sitro” meaning “his secret place” as in Psalm 18:11
Psalm 18:11 He [God] made darkness his secret place = 666!
Does that mean your God is Satan? Numerology is fun, ain’t it?
Love does not create an eternal evil of infinite torment. Sorry.
We are using different definitions of evidence. When I speak of evidence, I mean objective evidence that can be established as true and distinguished from mere imagination. Your “evidence” is nothing but subjective feelings that could be (and probably are) nothing but the product of your imagination and religious programming. Can you prove me wrong? Of course not. Therefore, you have no evidence.
Actually, it is what makes Christianity identical to all the other religious cults that are based on blind belief.
Lovely! If God has not chosen me then there is nothing I can do about it. Why are you wasting your breath preaching at me? Your religion is totally fatalistic. The only people who reject Christ are those that God chose to reject Christ. They had no choice of any kind.
If there were a part I could not see you could at least state what it is! But you can’t do that. What do you imagine you are “seeing” that I cannot see? Why can’t you even state what it is?
What you really mean is if I do not submit to your religious cult. When religion rules on earth, it threatens painful death and eternal torment to any who refuse to submit. That is not what I call “light.”
Your doctrines are ludicrous. You assert that God has set things up so I must claim to believe things I cannot know or suffer eternal torment. And when I finally do discover the truth after death, it will be too late. This is the deep perversity of your doctrine.
[When I speak of evidence, I mean objective evidence that can be established]
Read this as God READS YOUR MAIL…..IT IS WRITTEN…
“The Pharisees and Sadducees came TO TEST JESUS. So they asked him to show them
A MIRACULOUS SIGN FROM HEAVEN He responded to them, “In the evening you say that the weather will be fine because the sky is red. And in the morning you say that there will be a storm today because the sky is red and overcast.YOU CAN FORECAST THE WEATHER BY OBSERVING THE APPEARANCE OF THE SKY, BUT YOU CANNOT INTERPRET THE SIGNS OF THE TIMES.
EVIL AND UNFAITHFUL PEOPLE LOOK FOR A MIRACULOUS SIGN. (MT 16:1-4)
These same people SAW JESUS HEAL THE SICK, CAST OUT DEVILS, RAISE THE DEAD, MIRACULOUSLY FEED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, but they still did not believe…..
AND IT IS NO DIFFERENT TODAY…
“Although they had SEEN Jesus perform so many miracles, THEY WOULD NOT BELIEVE IN HIM.” (John 12:37)
********************************************************************************************************************
[Actually, it is what makes Christianity identical to all the other religious cults that are based on blind belief.]
On the contrary, all other religions are based on “blind faith” BECAUSE THEY NEITHER HAVE NATURAL or SPIRITUAL EVIDENCE.
WE HAVE SPIRITUAL EVIDENCE which is MORE REAL THAN NATURAL EVIDENCE.
IT IS WRITTEN’…..
“Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for FLESH AND BLOOD HAS NOT ” REVEALED” THIS TO YOU, BUT MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.” (MT 16:16)
“At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, I thank you for HIDING THESE THINGS FROM THOSE WHO THINK THEMSELVES WISE and CLEVER, and for REVEALING THEM TO CHILDREN. (MT 11:25)
Richard, God is seeking men and women with a HUMBLE HEART that come to Him in HUMILITY.
BUT BLESSED ARE YOUR EYES, FOR THEY SEE, AND YOUR EARS, FOR THEY HEAR.
(MT 13:16).
*********************************************************************************************************************
[Lovely! If God has not chosen me then there is nothing I can do about it.]
Richard, listen to yourself……WHO SAID GOD DID NOT CHOOSE YOU???
IT IS WRITTEN….
“But AS MANY AS RECEIVED JESUS, TO THEM gave he power to become the sons of God,
even TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME..”(John 1:12)
“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and WHOSOEVER COMES TO ME I WILL NEVER REJECT.” (John 6:37)
Don’t you understand that WE ARE ALL BORN UNBELIEVERS IN JESUS??
WE ARE ALL “CALLED” MY FRIEND, the CHOSEN ARE THOSE WHO “RECEIVE” THE CALL.
Richard, THERE IS AN APPOINTED TIME FOR YOUR CALL, BE PATIENT AND SEEK THE LORD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND GOD PROMISES THAT YOU WILL FIND HIM.
“You will seek me AND FIND ME when you seek me with ALL YOUR HEART.” (Jeremiah 29:13)
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[The only people who reject Christ are those that God chose to reject Christ. They had no choice of any kind.]
Richard, God never CHOSE PEOPLE TO REJECT CHRIST, this statement OPPOSES the WORD OF GOD.
This is the “anti-christ spirit” at work in your mind whether you believe it or not, and until you receive the BLOOD OF JESUS for the remission of your sins, it will continue to get worse.
THE WHOLE MESSAGE OF THE GOSPEL IS A CHOICE !!!
IT IS WRITTEN..
“For THIS IS THE WILL OF MY FATHER, that EVERYONE who sees the Son and trusts in Him, SHALL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE..” (John 6:40a)
“I am the door: by me IF ANY MAN ENTER in, he shall be saved,..” (John 10:9a)
“That WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” (John 3:15)
“That WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have EVERLASTING life.(John 3:16b)
“Truly, truly, I say to you, WHOSOEVER hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life,” (John 5:24a)
“.., but God is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that
ALL should come to REPENTANCE.” (2nd Peter 3:9)
********************************************************************************************************************
[You assert that God has set things up so I must claim to believe things I cannot know]
I am not saying that at all, as ALL OF MY RESPONSES HAVE DECLARED TO YOU THE WORD OF GOD AND THE WAY GOD REVEALS HIMSELF TO US.
GOD REVEALS HIMSELF THROUGH HIS WORD…THROUGH HIS WORD…THROUGH HIS WORD..
IT IS WRITTEN…
“RETURN TO MY COUNCIL behold, I will pour out MY SPIRIT to you, I WILL MAKE KNOWN MY WORDS TO YOU” (Proverbs 1:23)
“Have not I written to you excellent things in counsels and knowledge,
That I might MAKE YOU KNOW THE CERTAINTY OF THE WORDS OF TRUTH.” (Proverbs 22:20,21)
THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU ARE UNWILLING TO DO WHAT JESUS SAYS TO DO IN ORDER FOR YOU TO RECEIVE THIS SPIRITUAL EVIDENCE WHICH IS THE BORN AGAIN EXPERIENCE.
“But that on the GOOD GROUND are they, which in an HONEST AND GOOD HEART, having heard THE WORD, KEEP IT, and bring forth FRUIT with patience.” (Luke 8:15)
Richard, the EVIDENCE THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR, COMES AT HARVEST TIME.
THE HARVEST IN THIS PARABLE IS THE BORN AGAIN EXPERIENCE.
BUT YOUR DOUBTS AND OPPOSITION TO THE WORD OF GOD IS MAKING YOUR HEART BAD GROUND SO THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE HARVEST TO COME.
*********************************************************************************************************************
[Why are you wasting your breath preaching at me?]
Richard, I’m not wasting my breath sharing with you what God has shared with me.
In fact, because I was once where you are now, God has given me this assignment.
Why? Because I remember what my life was like before the LOVE OF JESUS BROKE THROUGH THE DARK VEIL THAT WAS UPON MY EYES.
WE ALL NEED EACH OTHER…..
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: UNTIL WE ALL COME INTO THE UNITY OF THE FAITH, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:” (EPH 4:11-13)
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Richard, God has an APPOINTED TIME FOR YOUR CALL..
Prepare yourself for it, humble yourself and come back home because YOUR FATHER IS WAITING FOR YOU WITH OPEN ARMS OF LOVE.
Take care, Richard….
“For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.”
How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.” 9MT 18:11-14)
I agree it’s no different today. The world is filled with religious frauds claiming to be able to do miracles and convincing gullible believers to join their cult. Joseph Smith made up one of the most blatantly fraudulent religions and he now has millions of followers. If he could do that in an age of telegraphs, photographs, newspapers, and fact-checkers, how much easier would it have been to make up a religion in the first century? There is absolutely no reason to think that Christianity is any more legitimate than Mormonism. Religions are not looking for skeptical fact-checkers. The are looking for fools who will believe what they are told.
How do you know anyone actually saw any miracles? You don’t! You have no evidence at all. You are merely believing what you you were told to believe like a good Mormon, Muslim, or any other cult member.
Ha! Look at what you quoted! When was it written? In the first century, about two thousand years ago. What does it say? That the “last time” was happening at the time it was written, in the first century! And you think it is happening today?
Christians are so funny. Another endtimer told me that she knew Jesus was “coming soon” because he said so in the Bible … about two thousand years ago!
[Christians are so funny. Another endtimer told me that she knew Jesus was “coming soon” because he said so in the Bible … about two thousand years ago!]
2000 years ago, the HOLY SPIRIT by the Apostle Peter, KNEW YOU WOULD SAY THAT AND READ YOUR MAIL !!
IT IS WRITTEN….
“Most importantly, I want to remind you that IN THE LAST DAY SCOFFERS WILL COME, MOCKING THE TRUTH and following after their own desires. They will say, “WHAT HAPPEN TO THE PROMISE THAT JESUS IS COMING AGAIN? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.” They deliberately forget that God made the heavens by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water. Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood. AND BY THE SAME WORD, THE PRESENT HEAVENS AND EARTH HAVE BEEN STORED UP FOR FIRE.
THEY ARE BEING KEPT FOR THE DAY O JUDGEMENT, WHEN UNGODLY PEOPLE WILL BE DESTROYED. But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A DAY IS LIKE A THOUSAND YEARS TO THE LORD, AND A THOUSAND YEARS LIKE A DAY. THE LORD IS NOT REALLY SLOW ABOUT HIS PROMISE, AS SOME PEOPLE THINK. NO, HE IS BEING PATIENT FOR YOUR SAKE. HE DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO BE DESTROYED, BUT WANTS EVERYONE TO REPENT.(2 Peter 3:3-9)
Ha! There you go again! Proving you reject what the Bible plainly states. Peter was talking about the “end times scoffers” that were mocking Christians back in the first century because they preached that Jesus was coming back “soon” and everyone could see that he wasn’t. Christianity began as a failed doomsday cult, and that’s why it continues to this day. You are told you must “believe” without evidence so when all the predictions fail you can think you are “holy” and “saved” because you continue to believe despite all the evidence. It’s the oldest trick in the book. All cults are based on it. Read the wiki article on the book When Prophecy Fails. It will set you free if you don’t close your eyes to the truth.
IT IS WRITTEN…
“ANSWER A FOOL ACCORDING TO HIS FOOLISHNESS OR
HE WILL BECOME WISE IN HIS OWN EYES.”
(Proverbs 26:5)
“KNOWING THIS FIRST THAT THERE SHALL COME MOCKERS IN THE LAST DAYS SAYING, ‘WHERE IS THE PROMISE OF HIS COMING”?….BUT DO NOT BE IGNORANT OF THIS ONE THING,
THAT ONE DAY WITH THE LORD IS LIKE A THOUSAND YEARS, AND A THOUSAND YEARS LIKE A DAY…BUT THIS THEY ARE WILLINGLY IGNORANT OF…” (2 Peter 3:3,4,8,5)
“WHOSOEVER DESPISES GOD’S WORDS WILL BE DESTROYED,
BUT HE THAT FEARS THE COMMANDMENT WILL BE REWARDED.” (Proverbs 13:13)
Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
IT IS WRITTEN AGAIN…
“:…for I CAME NOT TO JUDGE the world, BUT TO SAVE the world” (John 12:47b)
“For THE FATHER JUDGES NO MAN but has committed all judgment unto the Son.” (John 5:22)
“Ye judge after the flesh, but I JUDGE NO ONE.” (John 8:15)
Your quote: This is the great mystery that now confronts me. The evidence for the Bible Wheel remains despite the obvious flaws in the Bible. So what does it mean? I don’t know yet, and before trying to come to a conclusion, I feel a need to critique my own book with the same honesty I have critiqued the Bible upon which it is based.
There is a Wheel of Truth (Ezekiel 1:16) within your Bible Wheel and the spirit of wisdom and revelation will open the eyes of your understanding… Ephesians 1:17-18 to that truth.
Carroll & Margie Sanders
I realised that the attitude of many people when they hear new revelations is to ask: “where is it in the Bible? Please, please, please, if it is not in the Bible, I don’t want to hear it” so I knew I had to do an article on why the Bible MUST be CORRECTED and INTERPRETED first before mankind can understand this greatest project God is doing on earth called the LOGOS.
Ordinarily, even if the Bible was not ambushed, robbed/ assaulted, the Bible would still have needed interpretation by Elijah before God’s plan of salvation (the LOGOS) could be understood because God speaks from a height mere mortals cannot comprehend.
The Kingdom Authority is what the three arms of government on the terrestrial earth (the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary) are fashioned after because there is something like that (a superior one) in heaven. Remember, everything on earth is a mirror of what is in heaven (Romans 1:20) and most of the advancements on earth were made possible by angels sent from God to bring knowledge to the earth especially in the 7th dispensation (Daniel 12:4, Hebrews 13:2).
Just as the legislature makes/prepares the laws / the constitution, the executive, executes the laws and drives the government as the leader of the whole operation while the judiciary interprets the constitution.
The Kingdom Authority is the Law, the Word and the Prophet and this is what our a Supreme Lord Jesus Christ established on Mount Olives (the mountain of Transfiguration) where he baptised the furthermost three (Apostles James, Peter and John) into the Law, the Word and the Prophet respectively. The Law, the Word and the Prophet are personified by Moses, Adam (His Eminence) and Elijah the great Prophet (Matt 17:1-8). Lord Adam’s position here was occupied by our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ because at this time, Lord Adam was still in Abraham’s bosom yet to be resurrected. For more details on the Kingdom Authority, see https://thethirdelijah.wordpress.com/2013/12/03/the-kingdom-authority-the-word-the-law-the-prophets/.
Prophet Moses is the law maker and this is why he is called “the Law” while Elijah called the “the Prophet” is the interpreter of both the Law & the Prophet, in this wise the LOGOS which our Bible is only a part of.
The Word is the seat of divine government and this why father Adam is the ruler of all of God’s creation while the Law & the Prophet are the constitution of the kingdom’s authority and order, installed and set forth against every disorderliness, injustice and rebellion in all heavens and earth.
The interpretation of this constitution rests with Elijah “the Prophet”.
The reason why the Bible seemed like a book of fairy tales to many is because the enemy of mankind (Lucifer) through his agents, ambushed the Word of God and inflicted injuries on it and made sure he left in the Bible, the clause: “Do not subtract from or add to the Bible” to throw humanity off his tracks. The other reason why the plan of salvation could never have been understood is because the interpreter of the LOGOS had not emerged. Today, the third Elijah has emerged and is on earth carrying out the surgical operations of restoring the Bible to what it ought to be.
Please read the article below and share if you believe and agree it is worth sharing: https://thethirdelijah.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/do-you-know-that-your-bible-was-ambushed-robbed-and-injuries-afflicted-on-it-and-is-being-nursed-back-to-good-health-by-the-third-elijah/.
R.A. what exactly are the errors or contradictions you speak of in the bible? I am an atheist turned christian. I find it very hard to believe that you have found errors in the bible that I have never heard of. Your 3 reasons that you posted are very vague.
I will like to discuss the concept of hell. Have you ever wondered if Hell could be annihilation?
The only verses that really support a forever and ever punishing ae found in revelation. This book is written in pictures to portray a message. I do not think we should be building a doctrine of hekll being a forever burning fire that eternally torments those who don’t believe the message.
What did the gospels and the letters say Hell was.
Mt 25:46 “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Eternal punishment could be a punishment with an eternal consequence. It does not have to be a continuous torment forever and ever.
Jude 13: “for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever” “outer Darkness” Lk 13:27
Darkness fire isnt dark but actually light. Cease to exist seems plausible here as well.
2 Th 1:9 And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord
Again could be one penalty that is forever. One with an eternal consequence. Being away from the presence of the Lord implies ceasing to exist. How else can be away from his presence since God is everywhere.
There are many possibilities about hell that some havent considered. It could be that there is punishing to some degree and then annihilated. Whatever the case I am sure it will be just. The fact is all humans should be punished forever. We do not deserve to be in the presence of God who is holy and without sin.
Commandment number 12:
“Thou shalt not use more than one pseudonym on the same website”.
Michael, why do continue to write in such an unbiblical way? When will you make an effort to understand that Buddhists are sinners, like everyone else?
I believe in the final judgment
It amazes me how easily you refuse to heed what the LORD teaches about man. Your teaching is satanic, because sinful man needs to hear that he is a sinner. Truly easily annoyed Michael, you are the one behaving wrong before God.
Michael, you claim to prize righteousness, but your teaching is anchored in unrighteousness, for
anyone who avoids teaching that man is a sinner in need of salvation has no or scant understanding of what God’s will is.
josef.sefton.1,
Righteousness is unbiblical because the bible is unrighteous.
A righteous Buddhist is righteous, and not a sinner.
The lord in the bible has human sin attributed to its words and to its deeds.
My teaching says to not lie, to not steal, and to not murder, and you call it satanic because your religion is evil.
Your constant name changes are a hairs length from being lies, and you have the nerve to call me “easily annoyed” because I point out how annoying your behavior is in this regard. Your religion should teach people not to lie and to understand what lying is.
Righteousness is salvation.
Human beings are sovereign beings.
josef.sefton.1,
You bow to a thief, a physical assaulter, a rapist, a murderer, a torturer, and an enslaver, and you call it righteous because that book is evil. You call your murdering god love and truth because your religion is based on lies and hate and fear. And that’s the mystery of the bible, and it’s in plain site: the bible god is evil, and you give your energy to it, and thus you forgo righteousness, you forgo the pure and true way.
God is righteousness.
How do humans beings express the Spirit of righteousness, the Spirit of God? Through our words and through our deeds towards one another. Speak the truth, do not steal, and do not assault people physically. See each person as equal in this regard.
Religion is not an excuse to murder. The righteous Jesus said to love one another and to help people who are in need. He spoke up for the righteous.
Christianity’s Jesus, would have righteous Buddhists, garden living righteous Buddhists, condemned to torture by Jesus. Really the peasants ask? If I believe in this Jesus guy then I also have to believe that all my ancestors souls are being tortured by your Jesus? I don’t want to believe in him. Righteousness is better. The true way.
My post is in reference to the comments made by Tim Griffoen, because I can certainly relate to his struggle with Genesis Chapter 1, and I feel great compassion for those who are making a sincere effort to understand the Word of God, because my heart is crushed by its beauty and wisdom, but regardless of how we may feel, we must continue our studies if we ever hope to gain true knowledge and wisdom of God, because Jesus left us a Comforter (G3875 “parakletos”) that will stay with us forever (John 14:16). Unlike others, we shouldn’t throw up our hands, deny the Truth, or simply quit, and we shouldn’t drown our sorrows in alcoholic beverage or numerous mind altering drugs, and we shouldn’t put our faith to the tests of the doctrines of men or women (for all those feminists out there), and we shouldn’t believe everything we hear from those handsomely paid preachers (I John 2:27), many of whom sell the Word of God for a profit for themselves. Personally, I put my trust in the Lord God, the All Knowing and Almighty, an invisible entity Who has existed throughout the eons, has no beginning or end, Who is not defined by time or space (our known physical dimensions), whose wisdom is beyond our meager ability to comprehend it, Who created all things, and continues to bless mankind more richly than is deserved. Some would say I believe in a myth, but I can only say that the most powerful forces in our known universe remain unseen and are not believed to exist until proven scientifically, and how is it possible to prove factually what we cannot first envision, hypothesize, or theorize, and in “science” today, there are many more unanswered than answered questions concerning Creation.
I’ve read and also heard it said many times that “Scripture has many different interpretations”, and there are those who therefore refuse to even read It much less study It, while others reduce It to numbers in an attempt to justify their lack of knowledge or rationalize the “big picture”, when they cannot even visualize a snapshot. Many other “religions” say that God’s Word has been so contaminated by so many translators, that it is of little value, because it doesn’t represent the Truth, and we have been dealing with copies of copies for centuries (Thank God for the Dead Seas Scrolls). Regardless of what people may think they know, God’s Word has only “one” interpretation, but It has many misinterpretations, and our task is to find all the hidden treasures, secrets, and mysteries He has provided for us in His Word, because that is the only way we have on planet Earth of knowing God, and according to Scripture (John 1:18) “no man has seen God”. It is no wonder people are so confused concerning the Word of God. We have numerous translations (supposedly for easier reading and better understanding) and various religions that all profess to be the “true” religion but have little understanding that Jesus Christ only established “One” church, and it was humans who created the various doctrines and denominations.
We have all become dependent on our digital appendages and rely heavily on the information highway, both of which are based primarily on the extrapolation of Moore’s Law (maybe Richard, the physicist, will explain Moore’s Law to those who lack an education in the laws of physics), which speaks to us in only two digits, the 1 and the 0. It is interesting to note that both Hebrew and Greek have a number 1 (echad and alpha), but the number 0 doesn’t exist in either language. Maybe the numerologists or the gematrians can explain that for all of us. We could ask Richard, but he has already debunked himself, or at least chosen another path, even though he has thus far been unable to define it physically, numerically, grammatically, or spiritually. Hopefully, the M theory or the Book of Enoch may assist him in his pursuits, since he is such a prolific writer of the uninspired, or should I say easily inspired.
Sorry, I’m getting off track a little, because there is so much to discuss, and my primary reason for posting was to respond to Tim Griffoen and his mention of the Book of Genesis, Chapter 1. That chapter is referred to many times in Scripture, because it starts at the “beginning”, which is mentioned many times in Scripture, primarily by Isaish in the OT, and the Apostle John in the NT, and John certainly wrote a mouthful in John 1:1, just like Moses did in Genesis 1:1, but it is both those chapters that are really interesting. As Tim has done, I have read Genesis Chapter 1 many times, and the understanding of that chapter is very important in understanding Scripture, but in order to begin understanding it requires a word by word dissection of the Hebrew, not the translations of men, and I will use the KJV as my referring translation, because it was supposedly the first English translation, and even though it is filled with alterations, the meaning cannot be altered by mere mortals, but it is pretty clear to see that the alterations were designed by those followers of the edicts of the Nicene Council who sought to establish the Trinitarian doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, which over 90% of “Christians” still adhere to today, and I can assure you that it is difficult to rebuke a 1,400 year old doctrine, just as it was for Jesus Christ to replace the Old Law with the New Law. As far as chapters and verses, I won’t comment on those divisions, except to say that chapters were accepted by men in the 13th century and verses in the 16th century and continue today, even though originally, all books of Scripture contained no such divisions. Furthermore, neither the Hebrew nor the Greek used punctuation marks. Men added those as they “divided” the Word of God, and most individuals just assume it was rightly divided, when according to the Apostle Paul, it is our personal responsibility (II Timothy 2:15), and we should come together and discuss it in order to gain understanding (Hebrews 10:25).
Anyway, Genesis 1:1 contains 7 Hebrew words of 28 letters (Richard should love that), and the KJV translates them as “In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth”. The 1st Hebrew word (b-rashith) is translated as “in the beginning” (Hebrew “in-beginning”). Now, we have to determine when the beginning was, before we can move on to understand anything else in Genesis 1. Moses was writing about Creation, but he didn’t say when the beginning actually began and gave us no time frame to establish it. It wasn’t defined as Day 1 of Creation. It was simply a statement with no time frame attached and could easily have been billions or trillions of years ago, because time has little relevance to an eternal entity. The 2nd Hebrew word (bra) is translated as “created” (Hebrew “he-created”), and the 3rd Hebrew word (aliem) is translated as “God” (Hebrew “Elohim”), so now we know who the He was. I should also like to make a short comment about the word “Elohim”, which most say the –im denotes plurality in Hebrew, even though word 2 (a verb) denotes the Hebrew singularity, and we should try to understand that the verb is Hebrew singular, not plural, even though the Englsih “created” can be used with either singular or plural nouns (Another alteration often overlooked). The 4th Hebrew word (ath) is not translated directly in English but is an accusative preceding the sign of the definite direct object. The 5th Hebrew word (e-shmim) is translated as “the heaven” (Hebrew “the-heavens”). The Hebrew being plural, but the translation is singular, and I guess scholars don’t have to justify changes, and direct objects are not dictated by verbs. If we take time to read what Paul wrote in 2nd Corinthians 12:2, we might gain some understanding, because Paul clearly states a “third” heaven, and the Greek direct translation verifies it. So, from the Hebrew, we know there are “heavens”, even though we don’t know where they exist. If we bother to read the Book of Enoch, which many don’t even acknowledge, apparently Enoch spiritually traveled to 10 heavens, which may be related to the 10 dimensions of the M theory, but that is another topic. The 6th Hebrew word (u-ath) is translated as “and” (Hebrew “and” with “ath” again referring to the direct object), and the 7th Hebrew word (e-artz) is translated as “the earth” (Hebrew “the-earth”).
So, what we now know from Genesis 1:1, with a good degree of accuracy, is that “In the beginning, God (He-Ehohim) created the heavens and the earth”. If anyone has an interest, we can delve into verse 2, because Scripture gets very interesting as we proceed, because we have not yet even touched on Day 1, and God’s Creation (Speaking) on that particular day. The only problem I may have is that it would take several pages to explain verse 2 in detail, and most may not want to take the time to even bother to read it, but please try to remember, as you read what I have written thus far, that the darkness appears in verse 2, before the Light appears in verse 3. It was interesting to read Tim’s summation of the Book of Job, because I find the interesting portion is in Chapter 1, specifically verse 6, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them”. We know Satan was a fallen angel, and is identified by name in Isaiah 14:12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! Art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” This is not an accurate translation but understandable to most. This is the first angel mentioned by name in Scripture, and the other two were Gabriel and Michael, and Lucifer was the only one called “Son of the Morning” (or was he?), and that is a very interesting study, because Cain was the firstborn son of Adam, and we all know that he slew his brother Abel.
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of our holy LORD
there are 66 nobs, bowls, and flowers on the menorah in the tabernacle representing the complete(7)light of the word of God is contained in the 66 books of the bible, no more no less. Awsome biblewheel thankyou Jesus,check out Rev. B.R.Hicks at christgospelchurch, book Precious Gem of the tabernacle and many more books she wrote(now 97yrsold), also shes livestream on fridaynite, she wrote Threefold nature of man (circa1961) (3wheels)bodysoulspirit) shes one of a kind, also Clarence Larkin Charts(circa1917ad),Carlos Suarez
Quintessence of Quintessence(circa1946), awsome integration of Hebrew letters and the 66books, I would like medallion and stained glass but not important, I was baptised in Holy Ghost with tongues in 1980 after listening to testimony of Randy Cutlip(3dogniteband), in the middle of the nite,I pray you get an impericle (experience) of Jesus Christ, theoreticle is great but have to have the experience ye must be born-again, God weaps,cries,sufferslong,for lost souls and withholds Judgement(mercy) and gives eternal life(grace) look what Jesus went through Hell for you in your place,we are sinners from birth thats why everyone dies, we inherited from first Adam(death to everyone) satan wanted to destroy all mankind(jealousy hatred of God and pride) but Jesus the 2nd Adam through obedience to the Father(to be the sacrificial Lamb of God) has brought Life to all mankind (conquered Death and Hell) this is Gods way, we carry our crosses(believers and unbelievers) satan is subjected to the cross[(to and fro (job)], the mathmatical symbol for change is the triangle (Israely flag)(pyramides missing capstone,coincidence?I think not) love you Craig, time for coffee, and thankyou just stumbled on biblewheel yesterday and what a day but we are all heading forward,today is the day,now is the time the 6 thousand years of work is almost up and the 7th(rest,millineaum of Christ is O-SO-CLOSE).
Billions of people are deceived and enslaved by Satan. He was defeated at the cross, but he is still the father of lies.It certainly seems that everything written nowadays is backwards (at least to Arabs anyway). The seen confronts the unseen. The backwards confronts the forwards. Scriptural words confront delusions. Science confronts religion. Etc., etc. Such behavior among people often reminds me of a discussion I once had with a well educated, renowned “scientist” concerning an “invisible God”, because he only dealt in scientific fact. Ironically, his name was Jonah, and needless to say, Jonah didn’t understand how anyone could believe in, much less worship, an invisible God. So, I sent him a “scientific” question. I asked if he was familiar with the flight of the Voyager spacecraft. As our communication continued, I asked if he had ever bothered to look at the photograph, which is posted on the internet (Feb. 1990), of Earth that Voyager took as it left the Milky Way Galaxy, and I went on to explain that the photo shows an orange band with a small blue dot, which was circled by NASA, that showed Earth at the edge of our galaxy, because our little galaxy is only one of many, which are seen and theorized by “science”. So, I asked another couple questions. If we go 10 or 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 galaxies away from Earth, how would Earth appear. The only logical, scientific answer is that it would be “invisible” to any known methods we possess, and yet we know we exist. Needless to say, Jonah never responded to my posting, and I never heard from him again, even though I sent him my email address, asking that we please continue the discussion.
Science and religion don’t conflict. They just don’t understand one another.
Richard, one area that caused you to renounce your faith was the issue of the severity of God’s judgement, but I believe that the judgement is severe because of who the offended one is (God.) I believe that God is a just judge because I believe that the bible is true and says that he is a God of justice, as well as because of my own intuition about who God is, and that God will judge every person in a just and fair way.
Josef,
You might want to change your last paragraph. The whole thing is Jesus worship and then the last paragraph is talking about the anti-Christ. It’s weird, just like Christianity.
Your Jesus worship wouldn’t be so bad and hypocritical if it wasn’t so murderous and torturous just under the surface. You see, Jesus was a victim, he was murdered and tortured. Murdering and torturing my non-Christian and homosexual neighbors is what your God plans to do to them. What is wrong with your God that your God would murder and torture peaceful people? There is murder and torture and injustice in the Christian book of life. The Christian Christ brings death and suffering.
Michael, I am not changing a single word that I wrote! Michael, don’t overlook the fact that the Son of Man was always motivated by love! He is love! What is stopping you from acknowledging this?
Michael, if you want to understand life, you need to desire wholeheartedly to come to God’s Beloved Son.
I was trying to help you out Josef. You write a comment praising Jesus, who is supposedly a good person, and then it’s last paragraph is about an evil “beast” that supposedly people are going to praise. It’s not logical and it’s confusing. I didn’t want you or someone who reads your comment confusing Jesus with the “beast”.
Take care.
Josef,
Your comment says:
“Revelation 13:8 “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
Your whole comment is praising Jesus and then this last sentence is referring to a “him”. A casual reader may assume that you are saying “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (Jesus)”, when the “him” in that verse is referring to the “beast” of revelations who is an evil being. You see why much of Christianity is unhealthy? It’s quite a mind game that your religion plays on otherwise decent people. Christianity is a conquerors religion and not a religion of the peacemaker.
Michael, unsaved people have the opportunity to study the Bible to learn from the Teacher of teachers!
Will you take that opportunity, Michael?
Michael, why do you write that a sinless person is supposedly good?
Can’t you see that you yourself lack understanding?
Michael, stop overestimating yourself! How can you help me out when your understanding about the Bible
is in many cases the opposite of what it should be?
Michael, if you start praising verses from the Bible consistently then you will “help” me out!
He that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.
See Hebrews 11:6
In order to diligently seek God you should diligently study the Bible!
Praise the Lamb of God
Thank you for some very fascinating reading, both in your blog articles and your replies.
You may have debunked your beliefs, but it is not possible to debunk God. It is like an ant saying that the elephant does not exist.
The Bible is totally trustworthy. The Creator Himself teaches
that it is given by inspiration!
Why should anyone believe that? Can you give any justification for your claim, or is your believe totally blind like that of Mormons and Muslims? Is there any difference between your blind robotic religious belief and theirs? I’ve been asking you this question for over a year and you have never come close to giving a rational answer.
Oh my. So you actually believe in a demon-gawd that created the infinite evil of eternal torment in hell? Your gawd is infinitely more evil than Hitler in the most literal sense possible. Hitler could only torment his victims for a brief time before death set them free. Your demon-gawd delights forever to inflict infinite evil upon his helpless creatures. That exposes the true nature of your religion.
When you love good Shepherd you always have a faithful companion
Richard,
I’m sorry for what I said about you in regard to your father. It was mean-spirited, inappropriate, and none of my business. I’m also sorry for calling you a dick.
And I have been saying the same thing over and over for a long time, in different ways, trying to shine some light on the transgressions (moral abominations) that many people wrongly call holy, hoping to change some hearts, and I’ve learned it’s rather futile when it comes to people’s religious beliefs.
I appreciate what you said about the “global warming” debate. Global warming is for many people a religion, and a murderous one, just like many other religions, as many of its proponents propose insane numbers for the human carrying-capacity of the planet. It’s insane because there is only one way to reach their targets: murder and/or forced sterilization/abortions, all of which are evil and unacceptable. The existence of global warming is debatable whereas the existence of pollution is not debatable. Pollution kills people and destroys the Earth, this is a fact, and anyone who says differently, or who values money and profits over the health of people and the Earth, should be called out with facts, not debates, as debates are many times designed to get people arguing and taking differing sides, so that nothing gets done.
Take care.
Michael
Richard claims to be asking, but instead of asking he is scoffing at God’s name!
Richard, if you desire to “ask” you must willingly go on that journey.
I can’t do it for you!
You must want to hallow God’s name. He will not draw you to Himself if you truly believe you are more moral than He is, for such thinking doesn’t please Him!
Hey Michael,
I appreciate your apology, but I didn’t really take offense because I didn’t understand why you would be upset with me. It just seemed like confusion. I understand how frustrating it can be to keep repeating the same thing to no end, but that wasn’t happening between you and me so I didn’t know why you would be upset with me. But not worries. I have a pretty thick skin after all these years of internet “discussions.”
Likewise, it seems reasonable they should not be free to cause the death of thousands of children by knowingly spreading demonstrably false lies about vaccines, the danger of smoking, global warming, or whatever.”
Who are these people you refer to? The ones “demonstrably spreading false lies about global warming”?
You must think they exist, otherwise you wouldn’t bother calling for legal sanctions against them.
If you think they exist, they you must believe that “global warming” is real.
So it seems to me you have declared which side of that debate you are on. If I have this wrong, please clarify, and don’t hold back on the personal insults, I find them hilarious and delightful.
Truly Our Saviour is God’s sinless Son
Are you desirous to honour the Friend of friends?
Explorers for truth, righteous Jesus is man’s true refuge! Desire in your heart to honour Him! Desire to trust and obey Him, for the good Shepherd is love! Praise the faithful witness. Praise the Prince of purity and peace! Welcome Him to teach you, for He is the truth!
The God who reveals Himself in the Bible is a good God
Good doesn’t torture.
Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus,
As much as I have enjoyed the BibleWheel, there’s a much deeper and more profitable form of studying the holy scriptures.. and that is to study them Thematically.
The stories themselves telling the story..
Perhaps one of the most obvious is Abraham taking his only begotten son Isaac to the mountain to worship, where he was to offer him there as a sacrifice… surely this is not only about Abraham’s only begotten son, but more importantly, God’s only begotten and beloved Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
God DID provide Himself a Lamb.. His only begotten Son.
In the volume of the book it is written of Him..
Then what happens.. they come down from the mountain and we read of Sarah’s death (Israel blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in), and Abraham sends his servant to find a bride for his only begotten son…
Now what’s that make you think of?
Your eschatology is entirely contrary to the plain teaching of the Bible which says the “last days” happened in the first century. It has Christ himself saying that his “coming” would happen during the generation living at that time. Paul clearly believed he would be alive to see it, and John said that it already was the “last hour” in the first century. Christianity began as a failed apocalyptic cult, and has continued as such for 2000 years. It seems utterly delusional to claim to believe the Bible while denying what it so plainly states.
Why do you think he “meant” that while he didn’t “mean” all those other things he said about coming “quickly” because the time was “at hand” (Revelation 1:3)? The only way anyone could “believe” the Bible is to cherry pick which parts to believe and which parts to reject (via reinterpretation that forces them to fit the desired teaching).
Christianity has a perfect unbroken record of 2000 years of total error relating to the “end times.” I don’t think any rational person should start worrying about it now.
Funny you should mention “delusion” given that your end-times dispensational eschatology is one of the greatest delusions I have ever seen.
I agree, of course, that Satan is a fairy tale, but I can assure you that every person living will surely die. You are the one preaching the fairy tale that no one really dies because everyone will live forever (whether in heaven or hell).
Thanks for your comments.
Say what? Are you telling me that you are unable to judge that genocide, rape, and murder are evil? Why would you say that? Any human with a heart can see those things are evil. And that’s the problem with Yahweh. The Bible attributes many moral abominations to him. It presents him as irrational, cruel, and sadistic. He looks like a projection of many of the worst moral qualities of primitive men.
You really need to rethink your position. The morality of God in the Bible is so abysmal that apologists have taken to writing books asking “Is God a Moral Monster?”. Such books would be impossible if God were anything like the epitome of moral perfection.
Well, I’ve never ordered the slaughter of little babies.
Your position doesn’t make sense to me. Are you saying that all the unbelievers who never heard of Christ or the Devil are going to heaven? On what basis?
That’s “newspaper exegesis.” There is absolutely nothing in the Bible about genetic modification. This is the primary error of all the pop “end times” false prophets like Hal Lindsey, John Hagee (and his blood moons), etc., etc., etc.
Perfectly clear terms? Are you joking? The predictions in Revelation were about “things which must shortly come to pass …for the time is at hand” written two thousand years ago! And you think now they are finally “approaching”? LOL
Do you believe we are “really” in the end times now? If you think the end is “soon” does that mean you expect it sometime in the next two thousand years? LOL
Ha! An what about all the Christians who falsely “saw it coming” in their own generation over the last two thousand years. If anyone has been proven delusional, it is the doomsday Christians who have been consistently wrong for two thousand years now, and yet continue making the same ludicrous predictions. It’s so common that one group of diehard followers of failed prognosticator Harold Camping predicted the world would end yesterday, October 7! The delusion runs deep in Christianity.
There is no greater delusion that to say that “God is trustworthy.” If God were as trustworthy as the average garbage man there would be no debate about his existence. I explain more in my article Is God Trustworthy? The Root of Religious Delusion
Great chatting,
Richard
[quote]Your eschatology is entirely contrary to the plain teaching of the Bible which says the “last days” happened in the first century. It has Christ himself saying that his “coming” would happen during the generation living at that time. Paul clearly believed he would be alive to see it, and John said that it already was the “last hour” in the first century. Christianity began as a failed apocalyptic cult, and has continued as such for 2000 years. It seems utterly delusional to claim to believe the Bible while denying what it so plainly states.[quote]
You’re suggesting that the plain teaching of the bible is that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come again in accordance with what it says about the Day of the LORD?
Sheer nonsense and exactly what the rulers of this dark world would have all men believe, that it’s all in the past.
The biblical teaching of the Day of the LORD is clearly future, even a passive reading of the scriptures reveals this and of course the revelation foretells it all.. John DID foresee His coming kingdom before his death.. that’s why we have the revelation (or unveiling) of Jesus Christ written by that Apostle.
But if you’d like to believe it’s all in the past, then that’s your choice.
Sorry Richard, I don’t post much and I’m not sure how to use the tags below, I’ll figure it out 🙂
Richard,
I was thinking about your work with the Bible Wheel and the fact that you no longer believe it to be trustworthy now etc.. and how to me that sort of relates to Israel being entrusted with the very oracles of God, while over time becoming completely corrupt and even missing their own Messiah who personified the very oracles they so carefully kept.
And the LORD isn’t finished with Israel.. they’re going to be restored in that coming Day which we should all see approaching.. the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.
If you don’t mind me saying, I also believe that the LORD may not be finished with you, and that even this time in your life can be for much greater things to come. To me it’s amazing how far we can see one get away from the LORD in the scriptures, and I’ve experienced it in my own life as well.. but I think in the end you’re going to see how good that He is and perfectly trustworthy He is, and has always been.
“The disciples asked “when” and Jesus said during the lifetime of the generation that he was talking to. Matthew 24. Here is a link to my explanation that I wrote when I was a Christian.”
Here’s the context of Matthew 24;
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Let’s look at one of the first mentions of the word generation in Matthew 1..
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Here we see the word generation used in the LORD’s lineage.. and not only that, but Matthew’s gospel speaks of the regeneration as well in chapter 19 within the context of the LORD’s coming and then sitting upont he throne of His glory along with the twelve apostles also sitting upon thrones and judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Your article bought into the lie of preterism which once again is exactly what the rulers of the world would have all men believe, that it’s all in the past.
OT prophecy centers upon Israel being delivered, not destroyed.. and once again, we know who it is that wants men to believe the exact opposite of what the scriptures declare… and we are seeing Israel being threatened with complete annihilation by those who are under the sway of the wicked one.. which is the whole world.. and it’s getting progressively worse..
All the denial in the world isn’t going to change the matter of God’s prophetic word concerning Israel being delivered int he time of the end.
Thematically we see this in the story of Joseph.. loved by his father and hated by his own brethren.. sold to the Gentiles for 20 pieces of silver.. goes from the pit to the prison to the throne which exemplifies Christ’s death and resurrection.. is given a Gentile bride while hidden from his own brethren.. and ultimately when the revealed famine comes.. who comes looking for sustenance?
That’s right, the very brethren which threw him into the pit and left him for dead, and who deceived Jacob into believing that he was dead by his outer coat dipped in blood..
The LORD has told us the story already.. in countless living and powerful ways.. for any with ears to hear.
And without the full armour of God, you’re absolutely defenseless against the spiritual wickedness which rules this dark world. I’m sure that they’re delighted to see men put the coming kingdom of God in the past.. it’s right where they want the masses to be.
Deceived..
Then there’s also plain disobedience for many who are without excuse.. and who blatantly and intentionally pervert the simple truth of God’s testimony concerning His Son.
I read it exactly as it is written, that a day with the LORD is as a thousand years.. and once again I’ll add the emphasis that this is one thing that the Apostle to the circumcision would have men not be ignorant of.
And once again I’ll add the precedent in Genesis concerning Adam dying in the DAY that he did eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Guess who wants all men to believe that God has forsaken Israel?
The prophets could not have been more clear in scripting the deliverance of the nation of Israel in the time of the end.
The Apostle to the Gentiles warns the Christian church to not be ignorant of the mystery pertaining to Israel being blinded in part and until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in… because ignoring this results in men becoming wise in their own conceits.
God hasn’t forsaken Israel and they are also a wondrous picture of the resurrection.. as Paul miraculously details here.. “For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
The god of this present evil world would have all men believe that God has forsaken Israel. The exact opposite of what the simple truth declares.
“Why would it matter? Suppose you are correct, and the end really is going to happen “soon.” What difference does that make? No one could do anything about it.”
Of course men can do something about it, they can repent and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins and be washed in the blood of the Lamb, for all eternity!
The writer to the Hebrews says this;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
How shall we escape?
By not neglecting so great a salvation!
Here’s what the LORD says to His church in Philadelphia;
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Excellent Question, thanks for asking!
Mark,
The Arabs that live in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, they grew up in their place also and that land was given to them by God, including ownership of the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque, indeed the whole mount except the wall. It is theft to try to steal these things from the Arabs. It is against the Ten Commandments. One cannot steal and say that God gave it to them. If Arabs agreed to give half the mount to Israel, or came to real peace with Israel, it would be done by God, according to Matthew 18:19. Then God gave them a third temple. Then God gave them Israel. The day that the Palestinians and Jews come to real agreed to peace, God did it, according to Matthew 18:19.
No, you are not reading it “exactly as it is written.” You are still ignoring the rest of the verse. You are plucking a sentence fragment out of context and twisting it to fit your date-setting agenda. It does not merely say that a “day” (with the Lord) is as a thousand years (to us humans). It also immediately reverses it and says a thousand years (with the Lord) is as a “day” to us humans. Henry Morris uses this meaning in his effort to refute “progressive creationists.” Here is how he explained it (link):
Now the real irony, of course, is that you are using the favorite verse that failed doomsday prophet Harold Camping used to justify his ludicrous prediction of May 21, 2011. And worse, the deluded followers of Camping used that same verse to justify their failed doomsday prediction that the world was supposed to be destroyed last freaking week on October 7! Think of what this means. You are using the same methods of interpretation as those failed doomsday lunatics that you referred to as “tares.” So what’s the difference between your predictions and those of the “tares”? Is there anyway for anyone to tell? Why do you choose t continue the Christian tradition of 2000 years of perfect error?
You totally missed my point. From a biblical perspective, everyone needs salvation before they die. It has nothing to do with scary stories about “end times” events on planet earth. Look at history – all people die. All people experience their own personal apocalypse – guaranteed to happen within about a hundred years of their birth. So my question remains: What does it matter if your predictions are correct? According to the Bible, people will be saved only if they believe in Jesus, not your end time predictions. And even if you succeed in convincing someone, they may believe only out of fear and not authentically trust in Christ. Or worse, they may really believe you and when your predictions fail they could lose their faith and despise Christ, thinking him a deceiver like so many of his followers. The Bible says their blood would be on your hands (as a deceiver). And this, by a commodious vicus of recirculation, brings us again to the unbroken record of two thousand years of abject error which is the heritage of Christian end times predictions.
Imagine being a Jewish child growing up in a religious family in Israel. He has a normal childhood and plays a lot. He owns the dirt he plays on. This is from God. Now imagine him being a teenager and really thinking about Christianity. What does Christianity offer the Jewish teenager? It offers him his parents and ancestors in hell, that is what it offers him. It offers him idols of torture instruments and a Messiah that hates them.
Michael,
While I understand that there are many who would say what you’re saying here, a Christian does not have license to condemn anyone to hell or to preach that the LORD hates Israel, because He doesn’t.
A Pastor was just speaking to us about “Stewardship” and interestingly enough, stewardship entails judgment. We as Christians and good stewards of the mysteries of God, are to judge NOTHING before the time, until the Lord comes!
Furthermore, the Apostle to the Gentiles warns the Christian church concerning Israel being blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles come in.. Paul testifies that God has NOT forsaken Israel.
So, take a wild guess as to who might want everyone to preach condemnation, rather than salvation?
No, you are not reading it “exactly as it is written.” You are still ignoring the rest of the verse. You are plucking a sentence fragment out of context and twisting it to fit your date-setting agenda.
Now you’re accusing me of setting dates.
I responded to your comments because of your basis that the Day of the LORD was to come soon, for the generation which witnessed all these things.. and to show that the Apostle to the circumcision would have men to not be ignorant of this one thing.. that a Day (as in the coming Day of the Lord), is as a thousand years.. and that the LORD is longsuffering toward His creatures, not willing that any perish, and that His longsuffering is not like ours.. ie, like yours.
I dont set dates, although I can clearly see the DAY approaching, and the Apostle to the Gentiles tells us that the night is far spent, and that His Day is at hand..
Because for the one who inhabits eternity, it has been but two days since these things have taken place.. and it’s also a wondrous illustration of what happens on the third day..
Israel being restored (not yet) and delivered in that Day, the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ… which cometh as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman (Israel) with child..
You totally missed my point. From a biblical perspective, everyone needs salvation before they die. It has nothing to do with scary stories about “end times” events on planet earth. Look at history – all people die. All people experience their own personal apocalypse – guaranteed to happen within about a hundred years of their birth. So my question remains: What does it matter if your predictions are correct? According to the Bible, people will be saved only if they believe in Jesus, not your end time predictions. And even if you succeed in convincing someone, they may believe only out of fear and not authentically trust in Christ. Or worse, they may really believe you and when your predictions fail they could lose their faith and despise Christ, thinking him a deceiver like so many of his followers. The Bible says their blood would be on your hands (as a deceiver). And this, by a commodious vicus of recirculation, brings us again to the unbroken record of two thousand years of abject error which is the heritage of Christian end times predictions.
It appears you are once again accusing me of setting dates. I haven’t done that although in fairness to your comments, I understand perfectly well that many HAVE set dates and made themselves look ridiculous as it should.
That’s why as good stewards of the mysteries of God (like His coming again,which is mentioned in 22 of the 27 NT books), that we are to judge nothing before the time, and the Lord DOES come.
Setting a date as to the LORD coming is basically saying that your understanding of His long suffering is right in sync with His.. and that’s beyond ridiculous, it’s like thinking that you’re God.
That’s why we do NOT judge anything before the time comes.. but rather preach PEACE by Jesus Christ.. and at the same time we KNOW that there are enemies planting and watering their own crop right up until that DAY does come.
And which we should be able to see approaching.. those who would put on the full armour of God and trust that the LORD does know what He is speaking about when He declared all these things before they came to pass.. how that the tares have been sown by the enemy and that they’re not going to be rooted up til the end, lest they also pull up the wheat of the LORD which He hath faithfully planted in accordance with His perfect will so that men can grow up into Him in all things, even unto that perfect man who is the second man and the Last Adam, the LORD from Heaven.
You may not be setting a “date” per se, but you most certainly do appear to be setting a “date range” since otherwise the word “soon” has no meaning.
But then again, everyone knows that the Biblical meaning of “soon” could be “in two thousand years” so when you say “soon” you mean that Christ is coming in the year 4015? LOL
And who is “Israel”? You appear to think that the carnal sons of Abraham are Israel, but that directly contradicts Paul:
Romans 9:6-8 For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Bible flat out declares that the carnal sons of Israel (i.e. the secular nation of Israel defined as the physical sons of Abraham), are the “children of the flesh” and NOT the “children of God.” According to the Bible, the “children of God” are only those who believe in Jesus. Your doctrine about carnal Israel being saved in the future is entirely contrary to the Bible.
Approaching? When? In a week? A month? A year? A century? A millennium? Do you have any concept of what you are preaching? Your preaching is like a trumpet with a very uncertain sound …
1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
Your comment is absurd. The term “date setting” refers to making predictions about events that are supposed to happen in the future. Acknowledging the simple and incontrovertible fact that the writers of the NT plainly stated the events would happen “soon” during the lifetime of the generation then living is not “date setting.” It is simply stating a demonstrable fact.
You are most welcome, kind sir. I am always happy to be of service.
you are on a journey my friend. depending on who opens your eyes will determine your final journey’s destination. I am a son of God. I never realized this for many years. i have always been protected from anything that would kill me, even in my ‘lost state’. in his time Father called me and began my education in the mysteries. it is true that God says that if you will seek you will find. as i mature and apply my lessons in my life my father illuminates me more and more. i have met and spoken with at least one if not two angels. i have been allowed to raise the dead, and have healed many people. why he chose me to be his son i have no clue but thank God he did. the great mystery of life is that this one true God is creating himself a family and not attempting to save all mankind as of yet.
we all belong to this God and as such he has all rights to our final destinations and even yes what is going on in our lives daily. life as we know it is a huge stage and all people are the actors of the great drama. some are main characters we call sons and daughters, but myriad more are the supporting cast. all will not be called to be his children, many will be called to be friends. those not ready for the transition will go to a place of extreme discipline known as the lake of fire. maybe this will help you maybe not, time will tell. God bless.
Hi ! I will be simple, but direct. I think its fun you’ve done the raw math and tried to digest all of this. I may seem brain dead saying this – but hey. I was not a believer until 33 years old of age. But the supernatural turned me around. Yes, I’d experienced supernatural events before – even studied another “religion” which was impressive in all its details – but all in all – God came, well I let Him come – simple as that. And I heard a demon speak and different things happened that freaked me out. Its funny (and not so easy at times) when the unclean spirits gets nasty when one tries to leave them. And from there on I’ve seen the power of God through man acting in confidence and faith that God speaks as much today and has done so in previous times also. Yesterday was one such wonderful (yet strangely sad moment) when He spoke to me. I was both humbled by the experience and joyful at the same time. He essentially told me He loves to hear my voice. And I love to speak with Him…and have done so for some few years now. Yes, the Bible is not infallible – but The Holy Spirit will always help out. But again – you need be baptized in The Holy Spirit (check out https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC83VhXmIi_NzJaS6-bnm9Qw) and step out in faith. I am honest when I say that your brain is a barrier unless used correctly. No pun intended though. I’ve seen metal dissolve – bones grow live – couples (more than one) having a baby after 7 years of frustration and what not – and the day they conceived was the day we prayed. I knew about the supernatural even before God came – but I also knew He had told me to watch out for Jesus and find out who He was….yet it was God who lifted the veil off me. You are precious to God – and He gave His son for you. Go check Ron Wyatt on youtube for example. Its fun how much God really has given us. Our brain has a tendency to stand in the way. Hey – Bible Codes and what not, I found them so very interesting. And the gematria – cool. But its a rabbits hole many times. I am telling you – get a life. No pun intended. Sorry about being so direct with you. But the word can kill you unless you dont have The Holy Spirit with you. And we can reject Him also along the process. John Bevere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqT_Jv29aX8 – is a good one. I for one, with my family – was sent to USA from Norway for Charis Bible College with Andrew Wommack. And God didnt tell us with just a silent voice to go – I wasnt even up for it. But I told Him – we need confirmations on this. And we truly got it !! And the economy – blam – everything fell into place like I’ve never seen before. I know God loves you – and I’ve witnessed it time and again. Be encouraged and ask God to wipe your plate clean my friend ! Dont mess up with too many words – get down to it and ask God whats on His heart and you’ll be very surprised at whats coming next 😀 A lot of crazy things happen all the time – and we can really get hooked up in it..,.and its really not life. I’ve been so up in all details and what not, hehe…not fun though! I miss Father when I dont spend time with him. Its like, He asks me to go to a certain place – and I am thinking. Mm, did Dad really say that to me? But then another man confirms it (a pastor) – which I didnt tell what God told me – but he said the same thing. Yes, sometimes I know without a shadow of a doubt when He is speaking, at other times I am just not listening intently when He speaks. But whats so cool is He will always answer when we ask Him. And I believe its more our own barrier than His when we dont think He speaks back. Because He surely does. I know my calling and its simple – but I didnt trust what I was told, until several “unfamiliar” brothers told me so and so – and it grew on me. Hm, ok then. Things mature within a man and Father knows it. I aint the sharpest knife in the drawer – but I know Father loves me and the adventure He has given me is often outside my comfort zone. Ok, I need stop talking – hehe. Its time for me to jump to bed. Simplicity is key. Dont abstract and theorize away in details my friend. you can send me an email anytime. Thanks ! Sorry about the loose language and what not, I really decided not to write because the hour is very late – but I want to encourage you! We can Skype anytime if you want to.
Hi Richard,
What do you suppose the probability is that all you discovered when you thought you were a Christian could be a coincidence.
Searchers for truth, you can desire to learn to pray to Your Creator. You can desire to wholeheartedly thank Him.
You can desire for Him to teach you and to draw you to His Beloved sinless Son.
Be diligent and study the words of the Son of God in the New Testament and allow Your Creator to guide you home!
Are you asking: “Why does God send anyone to hell? Why doesn’t God simply forgive everyone?” It’s because God is infinitely holy and He cannot forgive sin except on the basis of His own justice being satisfied.
Searchers for truth, the Golden Rule is given by inspiration of God and is a gift from a righteous, kind God. Put your wholehearted trust in the God who reveals Himself as God in the Bible for He is love and He longs to draw sinners tenderly and gently to Christ.
Start today and set off on the most beautiful adventure of all of desiring to hallow Your Creator’s pure name. Say yes to this testing challenge and Your Creator will help you every step along the way. The Lord Jesus Christ, Immanuel, is the way. May the LORD bless your honest efforts to honour Him.
Sorry that you found the time in Christianity unbeneficial. My discovery was that I had “been taught lies by the fathers” (Jer 16:19) I have found the Bible to be trustworthy. Every mistake I have found so far has been the result of the monks or Masoretes with extra help from modern day preachers. Scripture does advise us to not trust the flesh because man will lie to us. (Jer 17:5) (Ps118:8).
I do ask that you be slow to be critical of the Creator. His reputation takes a beating because of mischievous mankind. Man is unique in that only man among creation was given free will to obey or disobey. That disobedience is mostly responsible for many of the criticisms against the Creator. By the Creator holding His Word above Himself, He has made Himself subject to that same Word and Promises. Unfortunately, like any deal, it can go against the parties of the contract. Since the Abraham covenant and the Golden Calf adultery necessitated a death punishment, the Creator sent HIS Son to die for his Family so they and us could be Saved. As HE said, there is no greater Love.
When Man chooses to disobey and set himself apart from the Creator, why should anyone ask where was the Creator when they needed HIM? Scripture does advise us that showing disregard to the Creator will result in unanswered prayers and self-reliance. Why is the Creator blamed for man’s choice? The Creator is not a magic genie that can be summoned when in trouble. Some of us personally try to be obedient and think we have seen miracles. The uncertainty is lower for a case of miracles than for a case of coincidences. Usually anyone only has to ask about a few of the Ten Commandments before finding any unfortunate victim was willfully disregarding at least one of the Ten Commandments. So the question again, if man ignores the Creator, why the amazement that the Creator did not help especially when that was the warning in the Scriptures?
Is there a Hell of eternal torment? Only in the deprived mind of man. Christianity picked up eternal torment from the Catholic Church. Scripture does not teach that, only men from pulpits. Hell in Scripture is the grave where we are unconscious in death. Scripture tells us the dead know nothing and that body and soul will cease to exist. Disobedience will result in that sleep being eternal. We sleep every 12 hours and no one complains about that sleep being torment. With Death, we just don’t wake up as we were accustomed. The ones that don’t wake up are the ones that didn’t like the Godly Life anyway. No, carnal life is not eternal. That was the first lie taught by Satan to Grandma Eve in the Garden. Satan taught the lie that they could be as bad as they want to be and live forever. So, No the Creator is not cruel. Man owns that one.
Errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations? Man owns that one also. Monks and Masoretes with agendas and out of ignorance produced most of the errors, contradictions and absurdities. Some were also threatened by the authorities if the translation didn’t favor the authorities. It is called politically correct speech in our days. We see a lot of it as fake truth in the newspapers of today. Morality is defined by the Creator, who usually seeks to resolve disobedience in an amicable way. The Universe and the Earth belong to the Creator. But HE had Abraham mark off a section of the land for HIS People, leaving the rest of Earth for the disobedient. Most of the ‘atrocities’ are the result of home invasions were the perps refused to leave and refused to not hurt HIS People. Like the drug gang bangers next door that won’t leave your kids alone. Most of mankind would use deadly force in those situations, so why would the Creator be denied what mankind permits for man? The atrocities were avoidable if the perps would have left or behaved. But they instead egged on a smack down conflict that they lost. Why isn’t the Creator allowed to protect a piece of the Creation HE saved for HIS Family? The other nations were left alone if they stayed out of HIS Camp and off of HIS Land. Isn’t that what we all expect? Why not allow the same privilege for the Creator?
Why the Canaanites? They invaded HIS land and would not leave. HIS Law of the Land was that everyone, whether citizen or visitor, had to obey the Law. So when the Canaanites flipped off the Creator and said they weren’t leaving, HE did what we always ask our police to do. Use force to evict or lockup. And when someone resists the Police, the mortician visits the scene. The Canaanites hunted Israel like prey which made them a sore issue with the Creator.
No Surprise. God told us HE does not always answer prayer. HE did advise in Scripture that if someone decided to dis HIM and ignore HIM, there wouldn’t be answered prayers. An example of how HE does keep HIS Promises. :- ) He is the Creator even if people dis HIM and treat HIM like a magic genie. HE gave man freewill. If man chooses to use that freewill to disobey, then man will be self-reliant and self-reliance means no answered prayers and no white knight rescues. When people get what they choose, why is that a criticism of the Creator?
Corruption of institutional Christianity? Yes, of course, man corrupts just about everything, even the Garden of Eden. The organized religious leaders killed the Savior because He pointed out the corrupt system. Apostle Paul admitted to killing Christians by orders from the corrupt system. Today as always, most of the organized religious systems teach abominations. Scripture warns us we inherit Lies from our fathers’ traditions. That is why it is so important to read Scripture (HIS Words written to us for us) because the man on the pulpit will lie to you. (Yes the believer will have to work at shifting through the translation errors.) Preachers have admitted to me many times they know what the Bible says and they choose to not teach it. The inconvenient Truth from God. Try it. They will probably admit it but be prepared to be told to not come back. It is about business, not worship.
Everyone has been given freewill to disbelieve or believe. It is not permitted to interfere with what the Creator has given. However, we are duty bound to try and keep the testimony correct for an informed decision by those choosing to believe or disbelieve. He said, Before us he lays Life and Death. The choice is ours. How is HE to blame when HE allows us to do the choosing? And No, there is no pulpit eternal Hell torment. There is no purpose for that other than man’s greed to psych the laity to keep the pews and collection plates full.
Please don’t believe all the bad things of which they accuse the Creator. HE is Loving enough to allow us to leave or stay. Remember, Satan’s purpose is a bad report to separate us from our Savior.
Our Lord can decide to have compassion on self-reliant people too!
Duke, it’s not as black and white as you teach, for the LORD is gracious.
For example sometimes an unsaved person becomes distraught but God can decide to rescue such a person from death, if they are contemplating suicide. Duke, the LORD is far more involved in the life of the disobedient, unsaved than you teach.
Duke, you teach that the soul is no longer active after death, so how then is man accountable to His Creator on judgment Day?
In the parable that Our Lord taught about the rich man and Lazarus both the rich man and Lazarus had died, yet they both lived on. Both the rich man and Lazarus still had a soul!
Yes, the CREATOR and SAVIOR wishes that no man perish and HE is willing to receive the repentant until the last hour as in the vineyard teaching. (Mat 20)
Black and White? Yes it is. HE lays before us Life and Death. He lays before us two paths. HE is Gracious and Loving enough that He allows the choice to be ours. (Mat 7)
Yes the SAVIOR is Patient and Long Suffering always intervening trying to save those who want to be Saved and even those who are troubled enough to not realize it yet. Especially when they are troubled by the lies taught from our corporate religious leaders and by the atheists who have a spirit of hate for HIM. The SAVIOR told the religious leaders that not only do they bind the gate to Heaven, through their lies they blind and do not allow anyone to enter through the Door and make their followers twice the sons of Hell never having passed through the Way and the Door. (Mat 23)
Man is accountable during man’s life. Very few don’t have the 5th through 10th commandments written on their heart. Unrepentant Sin against these commandments are the minimum judgement waiting at the Great White Throne for those not Written in the Book of Life. Scripture says everyone will be resurrected to Judgement. Some to Eternal Life and some to Eternal Death. Black and White. Second Life and Second Death. (Mat 12:12)
HE demands Hot or Cold and Hates lukewarm. Black and White. Day and Night ( Rev 3:16) HE tries to make it simple for us. Man makes it complicated. Satan is the Author of Confusion that complicates.
Whoever believes HIM and is a doer of the WORD will receive the Gift of Eternal Life. Those who do not believe, hear and do will receive the Second Death. (Rev 20:12) Scripture talks about men who are Twice Dead knowing they will forever be unrepentant never receiving Eternal Life. It is appointed that every man must die once. But the choice of Born to Eternal Life or Twice Dead is decided if a man believes in HIM, hears and does, or if that man is stiff necked and unyielding to HIM.
Satan taught “You shall not surely die” in the Garden of Eden. Believing the teachings of Satan has caused much sorrow for mankind from Adam to now. Better to hear the Words of the CREATOR who can destroy both Body and Soul. (Mat 8) Better to believe the CREATOR who decides if Twice Dead or Born to Eternal Life.
If the CREATOR can tie the bands of the Pleiades, release the cords of Orion, cast Satan to the Earth, separate the waters of the Earth from the waters of the Heavens, create Adam from dust, create Eve from a rib, touch a man’s ear to heal it, give sight to the blind, keep wear from clothes and sandals for 40 years in the wilderness, shake the Earth under Heaven from its foundations, defeat Death and the Grave, cause dry bones to come to life; then why marvel that HE can raise a dead corpse to life again.
Today (June 24) is the time of Korah. The day that Korah like Satan challenged the CREATOR to raise themselves up high, but were cast down because of their Sin of haughtiness and their Sin of placing their desires above the Desires of the CREATOR. Someone who relies on self more than the CREATOR is endanger of this same Sin. HIS Long Suffering Grace is often mistaken for Permissiveness. HE has a Place to share with those who desire to be of One Mind and One Spirit with HIM. Those who will not be One with HIM will be Twice Dead in Hell. (Jud 1:11)
“For he that is entered into HIS Rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as GOD did from HIS. Let us labor therefore to enter into that Rest, lest any man fall after the same example of Unbelief.” (Heb 4)
It is about Oneness with the CREATOR with no room for self-reliance. Eternal Life is a Gift that can be rejected as many do.
Yes black and white in those contexts as you write but don’t overlook the graciousness of the Lord toward the unsaved. Think of Saul of Tarsus. Think of the Lord’s intervention in his life! The Lord is love and the gift of salvation is His unique gift to us.
Hey Richard,
You quit Christianity, because you never had a “reality” experience with Jesus, that face-to-face encounter, like Moses, Abraham, David, the Prophets, John the Baptist, the Disciples, Paul, and millions around the world, including myself all had, and that you can have also.
The mystery of this “experience” with Jesus is contained in the Parable of the Sower Sows the Word.
In this very parable, you can find yourself.
I encourage you to read the portion of this parable which speaks of “Stony Ground”, because in this type of ground, a person receives the Word with gladness but only continues in the Word “temporarily”. And after being “offended” by persecution, affliction,or tribulation, because of the Word, they fall away, exactly as you have.
You see, in “Stony Ground” a person falls away from the Word before the seed can grow to full maturity and manifest the Harvest, which is the “Word Made Flesh”, who is Jesus.
The “Harvest” in this parable is Jesus, manifesting himself to us in reality, the born-again experience that Jesus said we all need to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Richard, no one is exempt from going through these bad grounds, (wayside, stony,and thorny).
Every person who has replied to you in this blog has gone through them all.
The only difference between alot of us and you is that we persevered past the bad ground into good ground despite the conditions and all the questions that we had concerning controversial subjects that discouraged our walk.
The profound thing is, those questions can never be answered until we reach the harvest in good ground where Jesus reveals Himself to us.
It’s not that God is being difficult by not answering our questions, but there must be preparation process before we can be ready to hear His Voice.
You know what happen to Israel when God descended on Mt. Sinai to speak to them…they were not prepared and “fear” was the result.
Jesus tells us in this parable about how the Word works in us and what “will” happen to us in these bad grounds in order to “prepare” us to continue to persevere into “Good Ground” where this reality experience with Jesus occurs.
Nothing can manifest unless a seed is planted in good ground and grows to full fruition, and that takes time.
And if something “hinders”that seed, there can be no Birth, no Harvest.
I encourage you to read this parable and the things that Jesus said would hinder the seed from producing a harvest (which is Jesus Revealed), and identify them in your life, and try again as God’s Spirit convicts and directs.
Thank you for your time and receiving my comments..
Charles
Hey there Charles,
How do you tell the difference between someone who has really had a “face to face encounter” with Jesus as opposed to someone who believes they did but was deluded? That’s what happened to me, and it is what I believe has happened to anyone who makes claims like yours. Religious delusions are common as dirt.
Would you have challenged my claims when I said that I firmly believed that I had a real encounter with Jesus who saved me from my sins?
And what makes you think “millions of people” have had a face-to-face” encounter? I’ve known hundreds of believers and almost none of them would say that they actually encountered Jesus “face-to-face.”
Richard
Religious delusions are as common as dirt but a true witness is a true witness!
Richard, I certainly would have never challenged your claims to believe in the author of life for it appeared to me that you firmly believed in God.
I personally treasured your research and still do! However Our Creator knows His creation in ways that we don’t comprehend ourselves. We, for instance, can claim to be men and women of integrity but He knows the condition of our heart. He knows of our need of salvation.
Truly He knows whether or not He has blessed us with a new heart. We can be deceived about this.
In my my own life, for several months before God saved me, I was totally convinced that I was a born again Christian. Every spare second I had I was either studying earnestly or out on the street sharing about the beauty of Christ’s character. What had happened is that I had used my will power to convince myself that I was a born again Christian, but only later did I discover that the new birth can’t come about in that way, for it’s God’s gracious gift to those He Himself decides to save.
Months later He did intervene in my life. This “face to face encounter” with Jesus isn’t something our eyes can see, for it takes place in a realm that our eyes can’t see, nonetheless the encounter was real and continues to be breathtakingly life-changing!
May Our gracious Creator continue to bless Richard body, soul and spirit to His glory.
So if “He Himself decides” then there’s nothing I can do about it, right? So what’s the point of all your words?
Richard, there is plenty that you or anyone else can do about it because you can decide daily that you want to glorify Your Creator. You can decide daily that you want to hunger and thirst after righteousness. You can decide daily also that you want to love the Lord above all the other things or people in your life that you love.
A good starting point, if you decide to say “Yes” to hallowing God’s name, is to thank Him daily.
Be encouraged for the Creator responds to thanksgiving, to praise and to worship in spirit and truth.
Be very encouraged Richard, for God is pleased when we listen to and trust and obey wholeheartedly His beloved, sinless Son.
“How do you tell the difference between someone who has really had a “face to face encounter” with Jesus as opposed to someone who believes they did but was deluded? ”
Richard, the very fact that you walked away and left the faith reveals that you did not have this “encounter” with Jesus YET.
Your walking away from Jesus is what reveals it.
Here is a perfect example.
We all have questions regarding spiritual things, God knows this.
But there is an “divine order” we must all go through to receive those answers.
Jesus reveals this in the Parable of the Sower Sows the Word.
First, the “seed” (the Word of God), must be received in GOOD GROUND.
If the “seed” is received in any of the 3 BAD GROUNDS, there will be no REVELATION of JESUS.
This means no “encounter”, no “fruit”, no “harvest”, no “voice”, no “understanding”.
Can’t you see that this Parable is a PERSONAL PROPHECY from Jesus to everyone?
Because Jesus reveals where everyone is “spiritually” in this Parable.
Can’t you see that you never went past STONY GROUND? You fell away..you walked away..
Everyone goes through this Richard…everyone…
This happened to some of the very disciples of Jesus…
“The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?…Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?…From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him” (John 6:52,60,66)
These disciples “walked away” before the “seed” could fall into GOOD GROUND.
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.” (1st John 2:19,20)
Here the Spirit of God declares that when people walk away from Jesus, The Word, The Faith, it is a manifestation that they did not have the “born again experience”, which is the result of the “seed” of God’s Word falling into GOOD GROUND and growing to full fruition.
“Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons..” (1st Timothy 4:1)
Paul says that the Holy Spirit is saying this…
They are leaving the Faith because they have not persisted to move into GOOD GROUND.
Again, you did not respond about the Parable of the Sower Sows the Word ?
Jesus specifically tell us what keeps the “seed” from entering into Good Ground, where a REVELATION of Jesus Christ takes place.
I encourage you to read and meditate on this Parable and let Jesus speak to you clearly.
Jesus clearly tells us that dark spiritual forces are responsible for deceiving and bringing delusion to the masses.
“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.” Luke 8:11,12)
Jesus specifically tell us that it is the devil’s job to “steal His Word” from us in order that we should NOT TO BELIEVE IT AND BE SAVED.
Just think about this…What if Jesus had NOT told us about this ???
JESUS WANTS US TO BE SAVED….
The devil does NOT want us to be saved…
How can anyone find fault with Jesus ???
We see the devil’s work from the beginning of scripture in the Garden of Eden, stealing the Word from Eve…and this is why the world is the way it is today…
There are dark forces working “behind the scenes” in the spirit realm and their job is to make sure people reject the WORD or keep the Word from reaching GOOD GROUND so their SINS can be FORGIVEN and so that they can be SAVED.
“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” (1st Corinthians 4:3,4)
So you believe that God chooses people if they are good enough and try hard enough? That seems to contradict what you said about God alone making the choice.
Your doctrine appears to be self-contradictory. On the one hand, you seem to be preaching Monergism (God alone makes the choice, there’s absolutely nothing anyone can do to get saved) while on the other hand you appear to be preaching Synergism. It would be good if you could clarify what you are trying to preach.
Charles,
You didn’t answer my question. I asked how you could tell the difference between someone who believes they are saved (like I once did, and you do now) vs. someone who is deluded. The answer, of course, is that there is no way. That’s why I asked if you would have challenge my faith when I said that Jesus was the Son of God who saved me from my sins. There is no way for you to tell the difference between a “true believer” and a totally sincere person who thinks they are saved but are not.
But I had plenty of fruit when I was a believer. So how do you explain that? And what “fruit” do you have the proves absolutely that you are a “true believer” and not self-deceived like Josef said he was for some months before he got “really” saved?
Greetings, Richard. I’m teaching that the God who reveals Himself as God in the holy Bible is the Saviour. He Himself teaches that He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, so we don’t make any contribution to our salvation, for He alone makes the final choice whether He saves us or whether He does not save us.
For he (God) saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (Romans 9:15)
Richard, it would be an error to believe that there’s absolutely nothing anyone can do to honour God. That way of thinking is wrong, for as I have shared with you Richard, there is plenty that you or anyone else can do to honour Their Creator!
For instance, you can decide daily that you want to glorify Your Creator. You can decide daily that you want to hunger and thirst after righteousness. You can decide daily also that you want to love the Lord, Your Creator, above all the other things or people in your life that you love. When we find ourself doing these things our love for the sinless Son of God grows!
Thanks for clarifying your position.
So according to you, there is absolutely nothing I can do to “get saved.” So what is the point of all your advice if it won’t help save me from eternal damnation?
I didn’t ask about “honoring God.” And what’s the point if it won’t make any difference? Why should I pretend to honor a God I don’t believe in?
Rather than use the word God, let’s use the word Creator because you are still I hope interested in searching for Him. Richard, You should be asking: What can I do to please my Creator? He says trusting in Him pleases Him. Furthermore He says listen to the sinless One. If you do this wholeheartedly and trust in His perfect atoning sacrifice then in my opinion He will save you. The point about the advice is that you can either follow it or reject it. Richard, If you concentrate fully on pleasing your Creator, then you have the chance to discover that He is trustworthy.
Remember Richard, there is plenty that you or anyone else can do to honour Their Creator! I know that you didn’t ask about “honoring Your Creator.” Yet if you want to do things correctly you must desire to honour Him, for He is worthy to be honoured. You shouldn’t pretend to honor a God you don’t believe in but you can decide to please Your Creator who you should believe in. Make that your new starting point!
Ever learning, and never able to come to the (epi-ginosko) (experiential) knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:7. I’m a pastor of a 12K member congregation of faithful born again believers, and have been a faithful minister of God’s Word for 31 years. The Word you now attempt to discredit gives testimony to your very denial of Christianity, which is what makes your argument so absurd. You don’t need sugar coated responses from true believers trying to woo you into true saving faith. What you need is a response born out of tough love that refuses to coddle self. One can know all that you’ve learned and still go to hell. The tragedy of your case is that despite all the knowledge God in His wisdom bestowed upon you, it was never combined with true saving faith. Believe what you will. But you have done anything BUT discredit what you have now come to reject. In fact, you have only strengthened and confirmed it.
Steven, I agree with your use of the word tragedy, for Richard has been blessed tremendously by His Creator and for many years he had a wonderful witness as expressed in the many wonderful insights about God that He taught in his writings.
However the Lord decides whether or not He draws us to His Beloved sinless Son. Be encouraged Richard for the Lord is gracious and in my opinion you still have like your wife Rose the opportunity to hunger and thirst to hallow His name.
We are living in very volatile and dangerous times for many of the leaders of the world are plunging, in my opinion, deeper into rebellious behaviour. There is still hope for those who have not yet been born again but serious Bible Study is required for Richard and Rose to do things correctly from now onwards.
May the only true Lord who reveals Himself as Lord in the holy Bible bless you both with a desire to demonstrate in word and deed the truth of this most wonderful book.
Hi Steven,
Please explain precisely how you can tell the difference between a person who has “true saving faith” as opposed to a person who only thinks they do. Would you have challenged my faith as “false” when I said things like “Praise God, I am a man saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ”? Of course not. The only reason you challenge the authenticity of my former faith is because I now reject it. This means that you have no way to know if your own faith is true, since you could reject it tomorrow for all you know.
Your response seems to be a textbook example of the Backfire Effect. Here’s the definition:
The backfire effect occurs when, in the face of contradictory evidence, established beliefs do not change but actually get stronger. The effect has been demonstrated experimentally in psychological tests, where subjects are given data that either reinforces or goes against their existing biases – and in most cases people can be shown to increase their confidence in their prior position regardless of the evidence they were faced with.
Please explain how my debunking of my own work “confirms” its validity. That should be very interesting.
I googled your name and found a few Pastors named Steven Sewell. What church do you pastor? Do you have a website?
Great chatting,
Richard
Hey there Josef,
How can say it is a “tragedy” when it is your God who chose to deny me saving faith? By your own words, there is nothing I can do to change his mind. He made his choice about who would be saved and who would be damned before time even began (according to your doctrine). So there’s nothing anyone can do to change their fate, right? So what’s the point of your preaching at me?
Richard
Judaism condemns non-Jews, some say to hell and some say to be slaves to the Jews on Earth.
Christianity condemns non-Christians to an eternal violent hell.
Islam condemns non-Muslims to an eternal violent hell.
And they all get their filth from the same book.
If a God came to Earth and condemned all non-Muslims or all non-Jews to an eternal violent hell all these Christian sycophants on this site would quite rightly call that God a beast. All my good Christian neighbors whom I would stand up for would be correct in labeling the God a beast.
If a God came to Earth and condemned all non-Christians to an eternal violent hell all these Christian sycophants on this site would be full of joy and praise for the God that is a beast. All my good Muslim and Jew neighbors whom I would stand up for would be correct in labeling the God a beast.
All these Christian sycophants on this site have no problem worshipping a violent beast as long as that beast doesn’t do violence to them, you hypocrites.
Life itself, for all people, men, women, children, people of all religions, atheists, people of all nationalities, people of all races, heterosexuals and homosexuals, and all people no matter what they look like, we are all created equal or else life is not worth living. Life is either worth living or else it is an evil roll of the dice. If you want to assign the attribute of evil roll of the dice to life that is your prerogative, but make no mistake about it, you worship a beast, but a beast is not what cries out from nature, what cries out from nature, its law, is a life worth living.
If you like someone in life then associate with them. If you don’t like someone in life then don’t associate with them. We have the human right to associate with whom we agree and to not associate with whom we disagree. Righteousness, right saying and right doing, is not only a path, but also a wall, learn to mind your own business in life, know what’s yours and do not take that which is not yours, do not attribute violence to a God whose deeds you cannot measure, there is no higher law in life.
Dear Mr MichaelFree,
Have a listen to yourself. You are obsessed with hell, and death, and violence, and punishment, and evil. These are all the markers of separation from God.
God condemns no one, but desires that all should find their way back to the divine source of their own free will.
To choose separation from God is the definition of hell, nothing more, nothing less. You are in hell right now, because you have chosen of your own free will to be there, and the proof is your endless words of judgement and hate and condemnation and darkness and disgust and complaint.
You hate God: we get it. So now, why not take up a hobby? Instead of spending your days in your basement hunched over your laptop spewing venom against those who love God, why not learn Chinese or archery or walk a dog?
No one actually cares what you think with your one-note sophomore level theology and your giant chip on your shoulder. So lighten up, log off, get out in the sunshine and start smelling the roses instead of endlessly bashing those who seek after spirit.
I’ve condemned no one but evil itself.
If complaining about evil is hate then I guess not complaining about evil is love.
If associating with goodness is darkness then I guess associating with evil is light.
If cutting down the tree of evil at its root is sophomore level theology then I guess building houses upon a rock is child’s play.
Richard, I am commanded to go into the world by the Author of life and preach the Good News. It’s good news because a gracious God offers you, Rose and Michael the opportunity of new life. Truly He comes to dwell with those He decides to save, Yes, He makes decisions who He saves. Just because He did not save someone when they are in their teens or twenties or later does not mean that their chance is over.
If someone is still willing to hunger and thirst to honour Their Creator they should be very encouraged, for He is tremendously compassionate.
The most important thing initially is to desire to learn from Our Creator and the best book to study to learn about and from Him is the Holy Bible.
Richard, will you allow Your Creator to teach you? If you refuse to trust and obey Him you will continue to be unjustly critical of Him, so focus on what you can do.
Understand that Christ is life and offers you, Rose and Michael eternal life but you, your wife and Michael must be willing to wholeheartedly listen to His teaching voice; for how can someone have praise in their heart for His atoning sacrifice unless they are hungering and thirsting to please Him?
MichaelFree,
You’re a one trick pony. You’ve written a thousand identical posts making the same identical point.
Over and over and over. What do you do, wake up every day, go to biblewheel.com and just repeat yourself? What are you hoping to achieve?
We get it. You hate the Bible. You hate Christians. You hate God.
Enough already. Put a sock in it. Get a puppy or something.
You put a sock in it you sycophant. You hate the Muslim God just as the Muslims hate the Christian God, yet you Christians and Muslims all profess to speak for the one God. I hate both of your Gods for the same reason that you hate one another’s Gods: I don’t respect violent beings. And then with this truth in hand you say stupid truth-deprived and deluded nonsense about me hating God. No stupid, I hate any evil God that may exist, you dummy. Wake up. How is it that I write a thousand identical posts and you still do not grasp this simple truth. Saying that I hate God presumes that your God is real, and you don’t know that to be true, thus revealing your words to be nothing but theft, wishful thinking, and the words of a deluded mind-control victim who tolerates violence as long as violence is not done to them. You’re a hypocrite. I follow the truth.
Michael, I can understand that you hate the Muslim false god but it’s a serious error to hate the Christian God, for He is Your Creator. Furthermore, if you have any hatred of evil, then it comes from Him!
Josef illustrates all the Christians’ one-trick pony on this site: he proclaims his beliefs to be the truth, and is unable to distinguish the truth from his beliefs. Moreover, Richard has repeatedly asked important truth-based questions on this site and all the Christians avoid answering them as if they were the plague. His questions put a sock in their mouths because their faith is nothing compared to the truth.
I hadn’t commented on this site for a long time before the last few days, and then I read where Steven threaten Richard with hell, where Steven threatened Richard with violence. You dimwits transgress the law when you threaten violence towards non-violent people, what you are doing is evil, and it’s not lawful.
Michael, it’s true that Richard sometimes asks good questions but he will not make spiritual progress unless he is willing to listen to His Creator.
I’ve answered all his questions, as best as I can, but like you and Rose he thinks he “knows” best. He thinks, for example, that he is more moral than the Creator who reveals Himself in the holy Bible. You too, Michael, refuse to acknowledge that the LORD who reveals Himself in the holy Bible is worthy of wholehearted thanksgiving, praise and worship in spirit in the truth. Michael, one thing is clear if you want to live a selfless life you can’t do this without loving Christ.
Michael, like Richard and Rose, you have been blessed with many praiseworthy attributes but clinging to fighting against the teachings in the holy Bible is harmful to not just your body but your soul and spirit. Decide to stop getting so worked up about the word hell and instead study the words of the good Shepherd, for if you truly start trusting and obeying Him the LORD will be able to teach you more effectively. Be encouraged, for the opportunity to honour Your Creator is there. Don’t throw it away!
There’s a way to say what I need to say without calling people hurtful names, such as stupid, dummy, or dimwit. I apologize.
Michael, your Creator is real. You’ve already studied what He teaches when you studied the Bible. Your original assessment of Him was true. Christ is righteous as both you and Richard used to correctly teach. Everyone who is born again knows this is true, for He has come to dwell with them. My witness as a follower of Christ isn’t as you claim wishful thinking, but a witness that you, Richard and Rose should take more seriously.
Brother, I believe u r bless n definitely on to something with this bible wheel. U r clearly a very intelligent person which is your problem, you think and reason to much! Yes, I am just an average person with no real intelligence like u have been blessed with. Yes, I am just a simple childlike idiot, have u ever been around an 3 yr old innocence child? I think u should get back into simple things, if that is possible with your brain, n get out of your head, and get alone with the Lord, and call out to him Jeremiah 33:3 n let Him do the work. His word is spirit n u r way to much into physical thinking. Even a child could see that the Bible Wheel is divinely inspirational! You need to pull yourself out oi that darkness u r in n leading so many good people into that darkness with you! God Bless!
Richard, you wrote that it is my God who chose to deny you saving faith.
This is a huge error because Christ’s atoning death offers everyone the opportunity to be saved and that offer of salvation is for all of God’s creation.
It’s not a question of desiring to be thankful for God’s offer of salvation.
You write,by your own words, there is nothing I can do to change his mind.
And you write: He made his choice about who would be saved and who would be damned before time even began (according to your doctrine).
Richard, I encourage you to focus on Christ’s sacrifice and decide if you want to trust and obey what He has done.
Your conclusion is so self-defeating: You write, so there’s nothing anyone can do to change their fate, right? So what’s the point of your preaching at me?
One again, Richard, you misunderstand the situation. Why would the Lord command His students to go into the world and preach the good news,if doing this was a waste of time?
Richard, when you write, so there’s nothing anyone can do to change their fate, right? Can you see that your focus is on man? Instead your focus should be on the Creator who can change man. Christ, by His atoning sacrifice, won a victory of sin, death and Satan, so by trusting in Him and what He has done man can be changed.
Man can’t set himself free from being enslaved to sin, death and Satan, but God Almighty can do it! The point of preaching and teaching is that the truth can be taught and people have the opportunity to say “yes” or “no” to it. Christ is the truth and saying “yes” to Him pleases the God who reveals Himself in the holy Bible.
Correction to sentence number 3: It is important to understand that God is love and that the substitutionary death of Christ on our behalf was an act of love. God Almighty has accepted Christ’s sacrifice. He is saying: “Listen to My Beloved sinless Son.” The right response to His sacrifice is a thankfulness. Understanding and thankfulness belong together, so as we grow in understanding for the Saviour’s sacrifice the Lord will bless us with increased thankfulness for what He has done on our behalf.
Hey I was wondering if you are still spiritual at all or are agnostic or atheist because I read the post about the dream that started it all. I was just concerned for the body because if you are a part of Us then you are just hurting Christ and yourself and possibly your wife by ignoring Jesus. I had no idea about gematria, numbers, or anything else. But God had me start counting one day and God lead me from there never did I read about gematria, but God had me start doing it naturally. One day my friend told me tgat what I was doing was called gematria and I felt like I was being ripped off, or someone was copying my relationship with Christ. In fact I do it a different way then you did it, but i was still mad If you are still interested I can share some stuff God showed me. Cool paterns and numbers and what God showed me about what numbers mean. Ill pray for you and i hope you start talking to God again. I just hope that you did trust in Jesus only for salvation and not works or repentance or any other thing because Jesus is our savior and only faith in Him saves
Everything I wrote on this site is null and void.
Michael, our lives are not like a lease. As much as you may want what you have written to be cancelled or somehow made invalid the situation is’t so straightforward, for what you have written has impacted on yourself and other people. Additionally Your Creator has noted what you written. Often you write with a lot of understanding but you misunderstand how incurable sick or deceitful the human heart is. You have also gone astray by not desiring wholeheartedly to pray to Your Creator. Michael, be encouraged for the Creator longs to teach you. For this to happen successfully you should resume studying the New Testament and stop agreeing with what people like Richard write.
You jump around a lot in what you write but there is hope for you, however you would need to make a bigger effort to acknowledge that Your Creator is a person! Studying the holy Bible can help to grasp just how much the Creator longs to rescue you, but for this to happen you’ll need His gracious help so that you desire to thank Him more consistently.
Dear searchers for truth, I would encourage you study the articles at this link. I have been blessed by God so much and I want you to be blessed by Him too!
Only the Lord who reveals Himself in the Bible is Lord.
Only Our Creator can bless us with the gift of life.
I enjoyed reading many of these postings, and I enjoyed your response. Query me this batman, what does the word Gehenna mean?
It’s the name of the place where garbage was burned outside Jerusalem.
I am guessing you think this refutes the doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell. That may be true, but it doesn’t give me reason to believe the Bible is really from God since it is such a confused mess that the most devout believers have never been able to agree with what it really teaches.
Some food for thought:
1. Hell is not the place Dante dreamed up in his poem. Hell is Golgotha. It’s a hole in the ground. It’s a burial place. Hell just means that you’re dead (“the wages of sin is death”). The soul is not immortal without a body; that’s a pagan idea (See, Plato’s Phaedo). The Bible teaches that the unsaved die, and the saved live forever, resurrected like Christ as God’s children. Even Jesus died, and he died to save all human beings (neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, etc.). Everyone is saved because God loves all his children. We all will also die, just like Jesus. God loves us so much that he saved every one of us. If you read your Bible closely, that’s what it says, though that’s not what many pastors like to preach (apparently, it’s more lucrative to scare your congregation than get them to understand how much they’re loved and how thankful they might be).
2. If God made the universe, then he has his own rules. But Adam was the one who messed it up for humans and let death into the world. God has been fighting fallen angels, the demons led by Satan, for a while, and it’s been pretty messy. We’re dealing with a bitter Devil who wanted to be as powerful as God so he tried to recruit God’s children (human beings, the image and likeness of God) to fight a battle that he can’t, by the numbers, ever win. So that’s why there’s evil in the world—because Satan is bitter, and because humans were too curious and disobedient to pass up an opportunity to get to know what good and evil are really all about. As you noted, we now know, sadly, what good and evil are about. Fortunately, when Christ returns and beats Satan once and for all we can just go back to the good stuff. As for contradictions, I don’t know of any. There might be apparent ones, but every one I’ve heard of was cleared up by comparing translations, learning some ancient history, and getting a better feel for the book (or “library of books,” as it’s often called) as a whole. Currently, I can’t think of any gaping contradictions. Most of the time, it’s just preachers preaching received ideas without grappling with the text (I don’t blame them; it’s a big book with plenty of paths to take, but the tradition was well kept by the Jews). Honestly, learning more about Judaism made the Bible make a lot more sense to me. We often receive somewhat “pagan” interpretations because we don’t know better, not having the tradition of Jewish history as Gentiles. Again, I’d look into those seeming contradictions, but I’m not trying to push the faith on you. That’s not my job. We’re all saved, and we’re free from the law, and all that’s left to do is to love one another because we’re all one big family under God.
3. Prayers don’t give you magic powers. Prayer is talking to God. God makes deals or contracts (covenants), and he can give gifts (grace). But he won’t just give you whatever you want, even if you think it’s what you deserve. By analogy, when you discuss and negotiate with your parents (God is our Father), they don’t always give you what you want. When you negotiate with a judge (God is a judge), he or she won’t give you what want (in some states, a petition before a court is called a “prayer”). There’s discretion. Instead, parents try to do what’s best for you, and judges try to do what’s just, and both, if they are good parents or judges, will hear your side before they decide. If you’re parents don’t think you should have ice cream, they’ll make that decision. If a judge doesn’t think you’re entitled, by law, to a defendant’s property, he or she will make that determination. But they need to hear your side of the story and your “pleadings” first. And they need some appreciation and some gratitude, too. Naughty children won’t get what they want from good parents, nor will rude, disruptive, or sly plaintiffs from the judge. If your parents, a judge, or God don’t think you need a Ferrari right now, you won’t get it. And there’s usually no apology to the fact. At the end of the day, God is going to try to do what’s best for you, and sometimes all he asks for is a call for help (a prayer of lamentation), and sometimes all he needs are some signs of gratitude (a prayer of praise and thanksgiving). God is good. He’s always been good, and we’re all his children, and he loves us like family. There is no greater love than to die for one’s friends—so said Jesus. So if God is our Father, and if he is our judge, then why would we expect him to give us things that our parents or a judge wouldn’t? Do you see what I mean?
4. As for corruption among God’s children, that should be obvious. We’ve been sinners for quite some time now, and the only thing that will change that is when our bodies are resurrected. Theologically speaking, I’d be more worried if we were too good and kind and loving and brave! Surely, that would show a real error in the way we think about our anthropology!
I find that a lot of the people who stray from the simple fundamentals of Christian teaching are usually the ones who got swept up in mystical or esoteric readings. That’s not to say that scholarship is bad, but a lot of the Gnostic ideas end up in weird and murky places. Even if the Bible Wheel is bunk (I never really read about it), there are some nice mathematical trinkets in the Bible. They add structure and charm to the text. But that’s ornament. That’s not the meat. It’s a carving on the Ark, not the holiness inside it, not the substance of the law and the contract between God and the Jews. Or, it’s the dimensions of the tree that Christ was crucified on, rather than what his death and resurrection mean for real life human beings. The ancient Jews were very precise in their transcriptions, and they took a lot of time to make a perfect book. But that’s not the meat! The meat is (here goes a pun) the Lamb! It’s Jesus! And God! And all of us human beings made to resemble God! We’re God’s children—and don’t children look like their parents? So what’s the message? You’re saved! You are free! You’ll live again forever. All that’s left to do is to treat your family—God’s family—with love. Jesus described it succinctly: love God and your neighbor. And if you need a backup quote, here’s the Apostle John: “God is love.”
Here’s a cute and inspiring lyric from the hymn “Let There Be Peace on Earth”:
“Let there be peace on earth
And let it begin with me
Let there be peace on earth
The peace that was meant to be
With God as our father
Brothers all are we
Let me walk with my brother
In perfect harmony”
Dear Sir: I happened across your website as I was doing some research for an article.
I rarely comment on items I find on the Internet, but in noticing your post on “Why I Quit Christianity,” I thought I would write a comment or two.
I wonder if it ever occurred to you that what you assumed is Christianity may not be the real Christianity of the Bible at all? How much of the early history of “Christianity” have you studied? You say you quit what you call “Christianity” in part because, “I cannot conceive of a good God who would design an eternal evil in which souls suffer eternal conscious torment.” But such a concept is not found in the Bible, it did not come from the Bible. For details, you can refer to an article, “The Truth About Hell” (see links below).
You question the Bible about what you call “genocide.” But God is the judge of men and nations (cf. Jeremiah 25:6-9). Men and nations are not punished except for the evil they do. Yet, all have the potential for ultimate salvation, and none will be excluded from that opportunity. For details, you can refer to the article, “Are the ‘Lost’ Predestined for Hell?”
You say, “The Bible contains many errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God.” I’ve studied the Bible for most of my life, and I’m what some might call a “senior citizen.” I’ve not found the errors, contradictions, etc., you speak of. I have noted many errors, contradictions, absurdities, etc., however, in what many think or claim falsely that the Bible teaches. The absurdities and abominations are not found in Scripture, but in the foolish errors, speculations, philosophies, and conduct of men, who have made this a world of falsehood, injustice, evil, and “moral abominations.”
You speak of the corruption of “institutional Christianity,” but have you never read how the religious leaders of Jesus’ day persecuted and murdered him? Have you never read how the people of Israel and Judah, with their false prophets and apostate leaders, persecuted and murdered the prophets of God? Have you never read the Bible’s prophecies, such as Jesus’ statement that many would come in his name, making a false profession of Christ, and deceiving many (Matthew 24:5; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:12-15; 2 Peter 2:1-3)?
Have you never read of those who use religion as a “cloak for covetousness” (1 Thessalonians 2:5; cf. Isaiah 56:10-12; Jeremiah 6:13-15; Micah 3:5; Matthew 23:14)?
For all your knowledge, I don’t know how serious you are about learning the truth. But if you are serious about it, and want to know the true God, perhaps this might give you a push in the right direction.
https://www.cogmessenger.org/truth-hell/
https://www.cogmessenger.org/are-the-lost-predestined-for-hell/
I want to throw Up. this is why not everyone should have a platform to speak. notice I did not even give you credit for an “opinion”, which I the very begining of this on didn’t address it as an opinion. right there shows you your pride is in the way. so no wonder yo have fallen. So Tic for Tac. Good Luck you philoidiot. look up Hopsin, he will school you.Sorry you just read the book instead of opening up that college taught mind of yours and enter into a relationship. Trust me since u won’t trust god. Hopsin will get you well in your way to were you want to be. If you can even understand and not dumb it down as u did the living word. what was Jesus name? Word.
this is just a quick unediTed totally opinionated rant. as all other commercialized companys and news related companys do. I’m not responsible for anyrhing I read or write and u can do what you want with it as long as I don’t have to read or be interrupted from responses that I’m not in any way responsible for. but if this is read yoU as the reader are resposbile for what ever happens up to removal from God knows What. lol hacky sackky
God proves to destroy the enemies of His Chosen Elect .
He is the Father of the Chosen Elect.
Hi Richard,
Not sure why you stand where you stand at this present time in your life, but what I would like to say is thank u for the Bible Wheel. The revelation and the system itself has helped me and my ministry so much. None of what the Bible Wheel has to offer is worth anything if it cannot be translated into life systems – systems to impact the way we live and serve Christ. Thanks for sharing.
Richard,
I have many questions but will only ask two? 1) Did you ever understand the significance of Dumbo? I find it a meaningful coincidence that I came across a video describing the occult meaning behind Dumbo earlier today and yet here I am reading what you have found in your experience surround the Bible. I am 44 years old and haven’t thought about Dumbo in any form since my childhood. perhaps it is best to just post the link -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlD-DGwqB6s The Dumbo reference starts around the 31:10 mark. Question 2) Do you understand the whole picture and why the Truth cuts you? Learn to rightly divide the word and you will find the only truth. That we are living in a Fractal Adam & Eve.
Hi Richard,
First and foremost, I want to thank you for keeping your website active even though you no longer believe in it. I appreciate the hard work that went into it and very grateful to have it as a resource!
I am not writing to condemn your decision to leave the faith, in fact I don’t blame you at all. I, like you, as well as countless others, have struggled to understand things like “Hell” and why God would create something, only to have it suffer in a roasting fire “for all eternity”.
What I have learned through the gematria is, that the idea of “Hell” simply not true! Hence, “EVERY knee shall bow, and EVERY tongue confess that He is Lord.” ALL will come to Him eventually…they MUST, for “everything was made by Him and FOR Him”. So, what about this “fire” then?
First of all “GOD is a consuming fire”. The “fire” is His Judgement, not a literal fire. Secondly, Death and Hades have already been defeated! Swallowed up! Which means NO man spends eternity in “Hell”. If that is true, then then Satan is going to be the victor, and not Christ!
When the book of Revelation is properly understood, you will see that the church is not resurrected until chapter 20. After Death and Hades are thrown into (swallowed up by) the “lake” of fire (God and His Judgement), then those risen at the 2nd resurrection will have the opportunity to come to Him at their will.
Let me ask you this…If there is an eternal lake of fire that all the wicked go into and never come out of…then why, when the new heavens / new earth / New Jerusalem appear do we see those living in the city going in and out of its gates, but the whoremongers, liars, etc. are seen as being “without” the city? This is a time when the former things have passed away, isn’t it? No remembrance? Yet, here they are. Why? Because every knee shall bow…eventually 🙂
You know, I thought a lot about Judas…how he actually was given sop (communion) by the Lord before he went out. He repented. He gave the money back and was so full of remorse, that he hung himself. The Lord knew he was stealing from the money bag, but never dismissed Judas. Judas had a purpose. We all do, good or bad.
When Christ was crucified, the Tree of the Life was nailed to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil making One Tree. The crimson and gold were intertwined to make one unbreakable cord. (…the book (or scroll) in Revelation 5:1 has writing on the “within AND on the back side”…(there’s always more to the story!) Also, there is “a Book of Life” and “the Lambs Book of Life” – one for each resurrection perhaps?)
Anyway, you couldn’t have been more right when you wrote about 666 = Davir (Holy of Holies) and how “the Man of Sin who sits in the Holy of Holies shewing himself to be God, is marked by the number 666. It is his attempt to sit in God’s Holy place”. The way I see it, who is the true “Man of Sin”? He that became sin for us…Jesus Christ!
Is not the one Paul warns of in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, “that man of sin, the son of perdition”, an impostor of Jesus Christ? No other man has ever, or could ever take on the sin of the world. No other man will ever sit on the True Throne, but One…Christ Jesus.
Jesus is known by His Name. The number 666 has been given to the Beast because he is not named. He’s an impostor known only by the NUMBER of “his name”…only, whose “name” is it? It is the number of “a man”…The Holy of Holies (God) / Jesus Christ (Man).
666 > 777 > 888 > 999 > 000 > 999 > 888 > 777 > 666
He (God) left His Heavenly Mercy Seat (666) to pass through the firmament (777) to become man, a sign, a wonder…”this child shall be for a sign” (888)…”yet thou shall be brought down to sheol” (999). He passed onto the grave (000), “as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times” (999), was resurrected (888) and went right back through that firmament (777) to the place of Glory He had before the world was (666). He completed His circuit, just like “a bridegroom coming out of His chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run His race” 🙂
These are just a few of the examples regarding the misconceptions Christians have about the Scriptures. Thankfully, we have the numbers to help guide us!
Again, thank you Richard Amiel for all of your hard work and for keeping the site active. You could have chosen to let it go, but you didn’t and that tells me a lot about your character.
Warm Regards,
Julie “Abigail” Hogan
Dear Richard,
I was at WSU in Physics from 1978 to 1984 for a PhD. My wife and I enjoyed some meals and fellowship with you and Farhana, when you were apparently a new Christian. I enjoyed your enthusiasm and was excited to see what God might do with you. On a return trip to WSU I saw you once – sometime in 1986 – I had lost my beard, and I don’t think you recognized me. But maybe you recall our conversation – it went something like this:
Elevator: Ding! Swish! (door opens, Richard is inside, going up)
Me: Hi …
RM: You have square ones!
Me: Huh?
RM: Square ones – they are usually round!
Me: Ummm … Wut?
RM: There. (Pointing to my chest, where the wide pocket of my windbreaker is bulging rectangularly with a load of books.)
Elevator: Ding! Swish! (door opens)
RM: Bye – (Richard steps out)
Me: Oh …
Instead of following you to re-introduce my befuddled self, I went on upwards. As I recall, while I was in town, I asked someone about you, how you were doing with the Lord, and learned you had “dropped out.” Now as I read some of your writings about that era I wonder if I ought to have tried to connect with you somehow, back in that age of ink on paper. I have thought of you a number of times over the years, and wondered what became of you.
So, Friday evening I was preparing for a prison Bible study on Hebrews 6 (a difficult passage, likely to start a riot if mishandled), and you came to mind. Now that we have the internet, a search on “Richard McGough WSU physics” brought out the fact that you are a successful software engineer (congratulations) and a prolific writer on a wide range of subjects – too much for me to read that evening – and that you had had an on-again/off-again relationship with God. Today I spent some more time wandering the canyons of your writings and commentary in your blog.
As in the elevator long ago, my thoughts since Friday have been interspersed with Huh?, Wut?, Ummm …. stretching back decades. Why is Richard interested in these things instead of, say, the essentials or the evidences or the effects of Christianity? At WSU was where I feel I first grasped the gospel. And it was among believers I met there that I think I first saw the scriptures tested by careful study: study aimed at understanding and application rather than discoveries through calculation.
I recall you seemed to gravitate back in 84 toward what I might call novelties (the Shroud of Turin, for one example; that was you who gave a dorm lecture on the Shroud wasn’t it?) – things on the fringes rather than the essentials of Christianity. Your symmetry studies (Wheel, Canon) and gematria must have taken enormous amounts of energy and focus. Is the link among these endeavors a search for a mathematical proof-level assurance you seek in relationship to God? Not only the mind of one trained to use the symmetries of mathematics and physics to make sense of the world, and a mind which spots angles where arcs are to be expected in an elevator fellow-traveler, but perhaps especially the mind of one whose trust in people has been violated in many ways. From that perspective, perhaps questions about hell, alleged contradictions in the Bible, prayer, Matthew 16:28, etc. have no good answers. But these are ancient questions with vast resources available for study, and the answers to most of the best questions are nontrivial.
I just finished reading Chesterton’s “Orthodoxy” (1908) and would leave you with a long but hopefully fitting and entertaining quote from Ch. 6: (The Paradoxes of Christianity).
“When once one believes in a creed, one is proud of its complexity, as scientists are proud of the complexity of science. It shows how rich it is in discoveries. If it is right at all, it is a compliment to say that it’s elaborately right. A stick might fit a hole or a stone a hollow by accident. But a key and a lock are both complex. And if a key fits a lock, you know it is the right key. But this involved accuracy of the thing makes it very difficult to do what I now have to do, to describe this accumulation of truth. It is very hard for a man to defend anything of which he is entirely convinced. It is comparatively easy when he is only partially convinced. He is partially convinced because he has found this or that proof of the thing, and he can expound it. But a man is not really convinced of a philosophic theory when he finds that something proves it. He is only really convinced when he finds that everything proves it. And the more converging reasons he finds pointing to this conviction, the more bewildered he is if asked suddenly to sum them up. Thus, if one asked an ordinary intelligent man, on the spur of the moment, ‘Why do you prefer civilization to savagery?’ he would look wildly round at object after object, and would only be able to answer vaguely, ‘Why, there is that bookcase … and the coals in the coal-scuttle … and pianos … and policemen.’ The whole case for civilization is that the case for it is complex. It has done so many things. But that very multiplicity of proof which ought to make reply overwhelming makes reply impossible. There is, therefore, about all complete conviction a kind of huge helplessness.”
In that huge helplessness, I would be glad to aim you toward some answers if you are interested. For one, I think a valuable perspective on Matt. 16:28 is offered by Charles Spurgeon in his sermon 594 at https://www.ccel.org/ccel/spurgeon/sermons10.toc.html.
Good to see you out enjoying the beautiful Northwest. I often miss WA. If you are ever traveling through MN, especially with a bike along, I’d be pleased if you let me know.
Hi Mr McGough, as I was taught during bible study, “line upon line, precept upon precept” (Isaiah). I’ve never interpreted any command of the Lord as being morally wrong. Reading that the Lord commanded Moses to go and negotiate with the people occupying the land of Canaan, to tell them that the area they were on was promised to Abraham and Sarah; and the Lord dose not go back on his promises. He even clearly told Moses that the people occupying the land would not give heed to the word of the Lord and his promises. Now while the Israelites wandered through the wilderness, I believe they were also doing some homework. They probably studied multiple dialects so that they could follow the Lords command to negoiate or at least give it there best attempt through his grace in faith. You mentioned Christian jargon. In a way Kieth Green called the “personal Savior” phrase kind of bewildering. Please look at (What’s wrong with the Gospel) video by Kieth. Thanks God bless you.
I clearly misused the adverb there yesterday. s/b their. Well, that’s neither here nor there. Truthfully, “If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful(: he cannot deny himself.”2 Tim. 2:13. & “We love Him, because He first loved us.” 1 John 4:19. I have to allow the Lord to keep reminding me of these scriptures. Thanks, God bless you.
Brother, I hope you will forgive me calling you Brother and read my message to the end. You have done an amazing job with the hebrew letters and gathering the explanations of numbers and letters connected to bible verses. It is truly impressive and it saved me a lot of time trying to learn the meaning of many words. Like you I am fascinated by how each letter/element is combined to form a substance/word.
Now I will try to explain my understanding of God asking to “kill them all” and keep nothing from them.
When I look at the word “philistine” the Merriam-Webster dictionary is offering a good explanation that aligns with the letters in this word as someone “disdainful of intellectual or artistic value”. Someone who is teaching by mouth spiritual death. Goliath being their giant means someone without God (god was kicked out of their mind) that remained empty.Thus David’s rock hit a hollow skull. All these come to understand that the philistines are the stranger/imigrant/ alien/nomad thoughts in our mind that will produce death if we allow them. There are six even seven nations that God will kill for you(deut 7:1) and there are seven sins we fight with = greed, gluttony, lust, etc. Now when we put the two together we understand that the pictures of this battles are happening in ouir mind/heart every day thus when God says kill the women and the children too it means kill all the sinful thoughts in our mind , all the disease causing thinking, don’t leave any seed of it or the one who gives birth to those seeds. Occupy that brain/mind space with the word of god, the tree of life that produces the fruits of the spirit. Now, how many of us would like to get rid of pride, lying, stinginess, laziness, extra weight, cancer, etc?
Maybe with some of those you can live but you definitely want all the cancer out; not one seed, not one cell left of it in your body.Kill them all and burn them down.
This to me describes the opposite of cruelty of God but rather HIS LOVE. Why love? Because He’s offering to do it for us if we let Him. As you mentioned many times in your book humbling ourselves and trusting that He knows better is the best thing we can do. Let Him lead the dance with you without trying to control the moves.
May the Holly Spirit give you abundant life Brother! I believe you know the Love of God and you will go back in His arms to open further the gifts he has prepared for you to walk in! May He speak well of you as a faithful servant!
I have not read all the comments so if someone else had revealed this to you it may be a sign to read it again. If no-one shared it I hope is refreshing to you and builds you up as well as all others who read this message!
Shalom!
Shin= fire; Lamed=teaching; Mem= water . May the strange fire that came in your mind learn about the living water Jesus Christ so you have peace and Rejoice!
I am a 7 year old born again christian just weaned from milk and I call myself a friend of Christ! He calls friends those whom he shared his love for the bride with, and his actions and plans for her! He loves you!
Hi Richard,
You have mentioned that “2) The Bible contains many errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God.
This point covers a very large class of problems. Many recent threads on my forum deal with them. The most significant to me are the moral abominations attributed to God, such as his command to kill all the men, women, and children of people in Canaan.”
Could you help me locate these threads, or if you have a list of these contradictions/absurdities? I would love to take a look at them.
Thank you!
Jake
Hi Richard,
I’ve always appreciated your openness about your faith, when you were still a Christian, and I appreciate your responses you gave. Your last response was in December 2017. You wrote:
“it doesn’t give me reason to believe the Bible is really from God since it is such a confused mess that the most devout believers have never been able to agree with what it really teaches.”
I concur. As we both have been very devout believers ourselves, we know what we’re talking about. In my Christian time, I haven’t found any Christians, who really agree on all points of doctrine. Most denominations declare what particular doctrines they subscribe to, but by what rationalization can Christianity still exist, if there really isn’t “one” Christianity?
Of course, the Roman Catholic brand claims to be the only, and condemns most, if not all, other brands without “apostolic succession”. The irony is that the Roman Catholic Church has subverted the truth in such a degree, that the mass is not in any way steeped in Jewish religion (as supposedly Jesus was), but on the Roman Cult. The “Pontifex Maximus” is not just the title of the Pope, but of the Roman Emperor (including Julius Caesar), before Christianity existed. Why would Christianity use Roman terminology steeped in political overtones, if it’s true that they have been prosecuted by the Roman Empire? How could Christianity feel “at home” in Rome, when Rome was its arch-enemy?
The simple truth is that the Roman Catholic Church bases their doctrine on a collection of documents (The New Testament) created by themselves, not by any of Jesus’ followers. The evidence becomes clear when studying the work of Joe Atwill (using typology) or of Kenneth Humphreys (using history itself). See my Quora profile for references.
The irony is that all Christian denominations use this Roman Catholic Document (in various translations) to continue the abomination of the human intellect.
Cheers.