Is the Genocide in the Bible Justified?

I recently received this response to my article Why I Quit Christianity published a few years ago (August 8, 2011). The writer identified himself as Timothy.


I really appreciate your open heart on the subject of Christianity. What exactly does that mean? Christianity was identified as the culprit during the dark ages of Catholicism trying to stamp out Protestants who opposed the “True” Church with valid arguments against her (aren’t you glad you don’t live in that era). Personally I didn’t see that as “Christian.” Your arguments against the God you understand presented in the Bible have fallacies to them. The passage you have quoted attributing God to killing the men, women, and children, and requiring His chosen people to do this immoral dastardly deed, is taking it completely out of context. These same people in the promised land were given warnings prior to that time to change their ways. Their lives were totally all about satisfying their flesh, which took on all forms such as listed in the book of Galatians in the passage of the “works of the flesh.” The Amalekites and all the other “ties” are examples to us of the flesh, and is why Paul wrote that the flesh has to die (all of it) in order for the Spirit to live. It is a brutal thing, but necessary.

Hey there Timothy,

Yes, I am very glad I don’t live in an era when Religion rules and people like me could be freely killed for the “crime” of speaking freely. But your distinction between Catholics and Protestants is fallacious because both are known to have killed people deemed heretics. Take a look at this page entitled Protestants Have Killed Many More Catholics!. You slay yourself with the sword you raise against your religious adversaries.

It’s quite ironic that you opened your defence of Biblical genocide with reference to the endless war between two of the primary sects that claim allegiance to the “Prince of Peace.” How is that different from Christians who deride Islam’s claim to be a “religion of peace” by pointing out the violence it spawns? I see no difference between any of the religions in this regard.

Your assertion that the violent slaughter of every man, woman and child was “necessary” is not true. An almighty omniscient God had many other choices. There was no need for him to command his “holy” people to become baby-killers. If he wanted the Canaanites out of the land, he could have given them a plague or just “shut up their wombs” (Genesis 20:18) or opened their minds to understand the truth or any one of ten thousand other possibilities. But no, he chose the path of violence, Violence, and more VIOLENCE. Why is the God of the Bible so enamored by violence? The Bible is blood-soaked with divine violence from beginning to end.

Your assertion that “context” explains the immorality and brutality attributed to God is not true. It doesn’t even make sense from a Biblical, let alone a moral, perspective. The children were innocent. Why were they slaughtered? And before you attempt to answer, you must ensure that your answer coheres with the opposite situation when 32,000 sexy virgins were spared from the genocide of the Midianites and distributed to the very soldiers who had just slaughtered every person they ever loved (Numbers 31). And on it goes … it is impossible to rationally defend the morality of God as presented in Scripture. Any attempt involves gross absurdities. Case in point: William Lane Craig, one of the most prominent living apologists, defended the slaughter of innocent children by saying that God did them no wrong because they all went to heaven, so that “their destruction was actually their salvation!” How he failed to see that he simultaneously justified abortion is beyond me. This is the kind of insanity that descends upon a mind devoted to defending the absurd. Another enlightening example is seen in this debate between atheist Hector Avalos and evangelist Keith Darrell. Only the atheist could assert that genocide was immoral. The Christian could not, because he knew that God had commanded it.

It seems to me that allegiance to the Bible as “God’s Word” tends to corrupt the minds and morals of believers because their doctrine forces them to deny reality and defend immorality. I have discussed this at length in my article The Art of Rationalization: A Case Study of Christian Apologist Rich Deem.

Your comment continued:

I think some have confused Christianity with religion, and it is easy to do. I believe that religion is man’s approach to God, and Christianity is God’s approach to man. This is seen in God’s instruction to Moses in building the tabernacle. God first told Moses about the Holy of Holies (the last place the priest would visit), than outward to the gate (the first place visited) Naturally, man would come to God through the gate, then advancing forward, but from God’s perspective, he started with where God dwelt. I relate to you when you point out those that have insisted on certainties that were not found certain. Those that have spoken in the name of Christ, and have been found unreliable. The scripture that says, “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free,” the word, truth IS intellectual in the original greek, not spiritual. God gave us a mind and brain to use, and He is pleased when we use it. Keep using yours, it is too precious to waste. I was once in a church that claimed to be christian, but was more cultish (not cult) in behavior. People didn’t think for themselves, when I finally left after 26 years of bondage to it, I felt real freedom. One difference between us, and I am sure there are more than one, is I didn’t leave Christianity, just this local church assembly.

Thank you for your time,


I glad you appreciate the use of the mind. I certainly will continue using mine. And on that note, I must say that I don’t find the idea that “Christianity is God’s approach to man” makes any sense. If that were true, then why does the Bible have all the earmarks of being a human product? Why does it endorse sexism, slavery, genocide, superstition, pagan mythology, and false science? Take a look at my discussion of the problem of sexism in my article The Inextricable Sexism of the Bible. The simple truth is that human morality has evolved a lot since the Bible was written, so much so that now its primitive morality offends the modern reader. This is precisely the opposite of what we would expect if the Bible really were authored by an eternal omniscient God.

PS By the way I am one of those “answered” prayers you asked about. I was prayed for after I had been in a horrible car accident when I was 7 years old. I lived through it after months in a hospital, and a year at home with therapy. My parents were told I would not live, then I would not walk, then I would not walk without an aid. My parents prayed, and I am walking today, without any aids of any kind. I am 56 years old and have been through a lot of experiences, all of which I have to say that there indeed is a God that still answers prayers.

I don’t think you understand my problem with prayer. You don’t know why you got better. If you had been a Muslim you would have attributed your healing to Allah. If a Catholic, perhaps you would have attributed it to Mary or some saint. If a Hindu, you would have attributed it to Ganesh or whatever God you prefered.

The problem with prayer is that it reveals that God cannot be trusted. For each person with a testimony like yours, there are ten thousand who died miserable deaths from simple diseases that we humans can now heal, all the while pleading for God’s mercy. Everyone knows that God cannot actually be TRUSTED by anyone for anything in this life. Parents who trust God for the health of their children end up with dead children and manslaughter convictions. If God were half as trustworthy as the average dentist, there would be no debate about his existence. It is simply absurd to say that “God is trustworthy” and so the foundation of Christianity is revealed to be a falsehood. Here is an excellent video that should help you understand.

I would be delighted to discuss this further with you (or anyone) so inclined.


Posted in Biblical Issues Tagged with: ,
83 comments on “Is the Genocide in the Bible Justified?
  1. Mystykal says:

    Hi Richard:

    Just wondering if the selective nature of prayer is being overlooked by your milkjug analogy. GOD is not in the business of answering just any prayer… I know you do not think that GOD even exists. But what if GOD DOES answer prayers – just not the way you willy nilly think it should happen. The prayer of a “righteous” man availeth much. That is why most prayers go unanswered. Wrong system of thought…



  2. Mystykal says:

    I think you should reevaluate the possibilities!



  3. MichaelFree says:


    A friend of mine is mentally ill. His mom told me that she prays and prays that he would be healed and yet nothing happens. She said that she tells him to take his meds but then he doesn’t take them and ends up in the mental hospital again. When she told me this I told her that truth is the most powerful thing in the world and that the truth is her miracle she has praying for, and the truth is that if my friend takes his meds he won’t go to the mental hospital. This is how he is healed, by the truth.

    Beliefs are neither true nor false because they are beliefs, but the truth is provable and functional: If you own something and someone steals it from you and then calls it their own, the theft is not righteous because you being the owner did not agree to the trespass. Ownership is truth. You own your person and your property. The right to agreement belongs to the owner.

    We are all equal and free.

    The sickness of the world is “I am better than you”.

    Many people think they are better than other people. Many men think they are better than women and many women think they are better than men. Many religious people think they are special and chosen and are better than other religious people who are of a different religion. Many religious people think they are better than atheists. Many atheists think they are better than those who are religious. Many nations think they are better than other nations. Many races of people think they are better than other races of people. Many heterosexuals think they are better than homosexuals and many homosexuals think they are better than heterosexuals. And they all learned unrighteous division and don’t even realize it, and are “ungodly” when they do this, for they know not righteous judgment, but are the very seed of all unrighteousness.

    The truth is the most “holy” thing in all the universe, for both the seed and the offspring of truth is love. And you don’t need a book to tell you any of this. I’m not buying the argument that the people who lived thousands of years ago were not evolved enough to know right from wrong, just like many people this very day don’t seem evolved enough to realize right from wrong, as it seems it’s just part of being a human being irrespective of the time in which we live. As if they didn’t know that killing babies was wrong, or lying to other people, or trespassing against other people or their property. Funny stuff, if it weren’t so serious, and then assigning unrighteousness to a God that is supposed to be wholly righteous.

    I suppose the writers envisioned that since God created good then God also created its opposite at the same time, so God does good and does evil, and then they write evil things being attributed to God. Sick world. Sick book. I bet if there is a God he is very pissed off.

  4. MichaelFree says:


    If any “Christian” says that God in Numbers 31 was “preventing” something from happening in the future by killing the Medianites and their children, I’m reminded of the three unwise wise men in the Gospels, who thought it wise to tell Herod all about the baby Messiah King being born (before they had found him).

    For surely a “preventative” God would have told the unwise wise men in a dream to not go to Herod in the first place, rather than wait until they had already spilled the beans, you know, to save all the children that Herod subsequently kills in his zeal to kill his competitor, rather than just saving Jesus. God is made to look like he only cares about the one child being protected at the behest of innumerable others being killed, or perhaps it shows that we are given free will up to the point of actually doing the deed, with the latter negating any so–called preventative actions taken by “Yahweh” in the Hebrew Scriptures. You see God can’t at one time do preventative actions and then at another not do preventative actions. Can’t have it both ways as lives are on the line.

  5. MichaelFree says:

    I apologize to any religious person who reads my comments and gets offended by them. I mean no ill will.

  6. Sophia-Baphomet777 says:

    Many “so-called” moral-decisions (i’d say immoral) in the Bible are very questionable to say the least! Some of the most commonly ethical choices include “subjugation a of women,” “chattel slavery,” “religious bigotry and intolerance,” “use of capital punishment as penalty for violation of Mosaic Law,” “wholesale slaughter and butchery,” “sexual acts like rape and incest,” “toleration in general of the institution of slavery in both Old and New Testaments,” “obligatory religious wars and the order to commit the genocide.” Christian Apologists support the Bible’s decisions by reminding critics that they should be considered from the author’s point of view and that Mosaic Law applied to the Israelite people (who lived before the birth of Jesus).

    To me, the God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. And I think an Omniscient-God would either love all or hate all, “not pick and choose a people” which is “A DISTINCTLY HUMAN TRAIT!” (*A BIG RED FLAG*)

    Yes, the Bible have all the earmarks of being a human product…of the human psyche/mind.

    Numbers 25:1-9
    Jehovah-God decapitates 24,000 of his own chosen people…exactly 24,000…An entirely nauseating episode- if the heads were severed on a hilltop they’re probably still rolling. Only a warped, sick, demented, perverted “human mind-psyche” can find this chapter palatable or worship the deity who divinely inspired it.

    Throughout the Old Testament and the Book of Revelation, it is Biblegod Yahweh/Jehovah/Almighty God who decrees that human beings should kill their fellow human beings. And it is Y/J/G who gets in on the nasty-action Himself! It is God who seems to kill out of “revrelry and glee,” who destroys life constantly, “as if it’s a favourite hobby of His.” It is God who orders and allows his armies of barbarians to embark on bloody-rampages and crusades to steal and loot the possessions of their dead-victims and take the 32,000 virgin women as if they were loot, booty, property and merchandise.

    How can any female with any pride at all read these verses and still worship this Primitive Lusty God of the Bible? Oh, by being in “Extreme Denial,” that’s how!!…In verse 11, women are deemed nothing more than sex-toys and baby-factories and recreation for conquering warrior-brutes.

    And it ain’t Ye ‘Ole Scratch Satan or the Devil who does all this. It’s the Almighty Yahweh Himself! Yet the New Testament calls the Devil “the Destroyer.” How Ironic is that! What gives? WOW!! Regardless of all the textual evidence in the anthology that it is always Biblegod-Yahweh who is the mass-killer and “Destroyer.”

    II Samuel 12
    Verses 15-18:
    Direct Murder of a child by God. No herculean efforts of twisting and turning this passage’s meaning and “context” will work here. The meaning is crystal clear to me. Infanticide pure and simple. Forget your Interpretation, Context an Verse crap. This is not symbolic. This is Literal.

    The blind-believers need to be scrutinizing the Booklets of The Book to be apprised of this fact, then ask themselves “Honestly (and not lying to themselves.), “Who is the real Destroyer here, eh?Moreover, they must also be consistent in deciding what is literal and what is figurative. Fundamentalist Bible-believers always throw the argument out “God didn’t really kill all those people” when discussing “clearly overt genocidal-passages.” However, if the words “Lord”, “Lord God”, “the Lord thy God”, and “Creator” were replaced with “Devil,” “Lucifer,” “Satan,” these double-standard people would surely say the contexts and verses are literal and the homicides were real!

    How anyone today can worship such a primitive-deity who killed so many innocent men women and children, babies, children and innocent animals throughout his “holy” Bible, and who plans to slaughter billions more in the horrors of the Book of Revelation is beyond Me! I just don’t get it? Get real, People!

    The atrocities of the “pissed-off” mass geocidal-murderer in the Sky are all I need to reject him and find him despicable. On moral grounds alone, I must reject the tribal Storm-God of the Bible. Moral grounds are all I need to reject and despise this [imaginary–god of the da human-mind] whom so many people worship, but I also have philosophical grounds and historical grounds, not to mention good ‘ole common-sense and basic knowledge.

    The Holy Bible is called the Good Book (or “The Not So Good Book”), but it’s actually not a book. Some of the stories are dull and boring, others are somewhat intriguing. To be honest, the Bible is still one of your best sources for soap opera drama, rape and sex and violence, and genocide! But it is not the place to go for science and history. The late Iron-Age people of the Bible were in many backward and primitive people of their time, so their book obviously going to be a little twisted, backward and primitive.

    The real issue for me is that the conception of God is inherited from our ignorant and barbaric ancestors. They were small minded, misogynist, bigoted, highly “anti-Semitic” propagators of the hell-myth that destroys the minds and morals of all who would believe it. Whoops…sorry, I’m starting to rant. People used to be killed for less than what I just said! LOL.

    I’ve no doubt it contains some core truth but not much. But I think most of its cast of characters and events are symbolic, allegorical and mythological. And I have a sneaky-suspicion that many of the those beloved characters perhaps never actually existed in truth. The Bible does contain some good rules to live by, i.e. the Golden Rule, but just about all these were no doubt borrowed from earlier religions and cultures. The most important thing a person can know about the Bible- that it’s largely a rewrite of previous epoch of myths about the relationship between God and Man.

    I see the Bible is a synthesis of earlier texts…and a real masterpiece, if you will…but a book of mythology which should not be taken too seriously IMO. Unfortunately, The Christian Fundamentalist and Apologists-Propagandists do not follow Detective methodologies. Contra the Detectives who are “wary of” all witnesses’ (or “persons of interest”) statements and accounts, Apologists “assume automatically as a matter of faith that the Bible is the absolute word of God and it **is not to be questioned or held in suspicion regarding its statements or accounts.** Therefore Apologists reject any and all findings that contradict or challenge the Bible’s accounts. They claim that the physical evidence is being misinterpreted and misunderstood out of context if the findings challenge Holy Writ’s account.

    People will have to take a peek outside the “Propagandic-Biblebox,” and let what’s out there open your eyes to the reality and truth.

  7. MichaelFree says:

    R.A. McGough, Sophia-Baphomet777,

    When I read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, what I took away from it is the Holy Spirit.

    You are supposed to see the Holy Spirit in everyone in the world who is doing it. This is called your humanity. Humanity comes first, only then can you know God.

    The Holy Spirit is the spirit of love and truth.

    Help people in need because this is the purest form of the Holy Spirit.

    When someone speaks the truth and does not lie it is the Holy Spirit.

    When someone respects other people and their property it is the Holy Spirit.

    Good thoughts. Good words. Good deeds. The creative and good principle. One True God. Not two. Not good and bad, but only good.

    Smile, see all the people smiling, men and women, those who are religious and those who are not, people of all races and nationalities, heterosexuals and homosexuals, look at them all smiling, and none has a righteous accuser, why, because they are all doing the Holy Spirit. THEY ARE ALL EQUAL. If you deny them, by denying that they are saying and doing things in the Holy Spirit then you deny the Holy Spirit. If they are helping people in need then they are doing the Holy Spirit. If they are not lying to anyone and they are respecting other people and their property then they are doing the Holy Spirit.

    Smile, look at the good Jew, deny them or their salvation and you deny the Holy Spirit. Smile, look at the good Christian, deny them or their salvation and you deny the Holy Spirit. Smile, look at the good Muslim, deny them or their salvation and you deny the Holy Spirit. Smile, look at the good atheist, deny them or their salvation and you deny the Holy Spirit.

    Anytime you divide the righteous from the righteous then you are dividing righteousness itself, and many times people who do this don’t even realize they are doing it. When Richard sees the righteous Medianites in Numbers 31 he knows that the righteous are being attacked and the other side is saying that God is attacking righteousness itself, so how can this be? The answer is, I don’t know. Then I’m reminded of the Garden of Eden and righteous Yahweh that ran the place, I’m reminded of the righteous Ten Commandments, the righteous Kingdom of God that Jesus spoke of, for they are all one, not two, but one. One True God who is only righteous, not righteous and unrighteous. You do not divide the righteous nor do you ‘really’ divide the righteous and the unrighteous, for even the unrighteous are to be treated with truth, restraint, love, dignity, justice, and forgiveness. For humanity.

    But you know Richard, if one reads the Gospels they will see that Jesus did provable righteousness the whole time, and had no righteous accuser. Even when he ran the moneychangers out of the temple, why did they stay out, for he was but one man? I think it is because they knew that he was the Son of God, so they stayed out. I believe they valued place and position above the truth, so they killed Jesus because of Jesus’ beliefs, not something criminal that he did, but because of his beliefs. When he kicks them out he is cleaning up Gods temple. It’s not a place for lying and stealing moneychangers to be.

    And that is what the world does, it falsely divides and many are treated to injustice at the hands of them who know they are being unjust and yet they continue and still seek to justify themselves, so they write down that God said to do it. And I say, not the God I know.

  8. Sophia-Baphomet777 says:

    Richard, I was raised a Christian in what you might call traditional Christian environs here in the Bible Belt. I too have found myself now in a very-strange and alien-place indeed! I’m a Protestant from the Wesleyan-Arminian Wing as it were.

    And it seems to me that Fundamentalist/Conservative/Evangelical Christianity’s primary appeal, other than to people who were born and raised in it, is to people who feel that the “Prince of this World,” the ruler of their very own flesh, is somehow out to get them, and who hence feel a need to be “SAVED.”

    My point here is not necessarily that this is the primary reason for Christianity’s appeal, but only that this seems to be [the primary category of people likely to convert] to Christianity; hence the perceptions of such people should be given serious consideration in any attempt to figure out the underlying Psychology and Truth.

    I think the traditional-warped Christian view and doctrine of “Hell” and “Satan” is based on a loveless-paranoid or otherwise hostile-perception of the true “God of this World.”

    In my opinion, the belief that “Satan” is out to get you really says more about the people who are drawn to this sort Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christianity, and who feel a need to be “saved” or “rescued” and escape from whatever ails them, than it says about the imaginary pathetic-character called “Satan.” Insofar as such people may dimly perceive a deity immanent in their own flesh, it is logical that [they would perceive that deity as evil or sinful], given that they regard their own flesh as “fallen.”

    The jingoistic-words Christian and Christianity and whatnot mean absolutely nothing to me when coming from the mealy-mouths of others. I know they should mean nothing to anyone else if they heard them from me either, so I don’t use or have much respect those words anymore. I’m sorry, but they are really just so much religious-jargon and load of crap to me. Hey, i’m just being brutally honest here.

    The God presented in the Bible has very gross Contradictions and Fallacies to Him. The passage you have quoted attributing God to killing the men, women, and children, and requiring His chosen people to do this immoral dastardly deed, *is not* out of Context.

    The simple truth is that human morality has evolved a hell-of-a-lot since the Bible was written, so much so that now its primitive morality offends the modern reader. Isn’t this precisely the opposite of what we would expect if the Bible really were literally authored by an eternal omniscient God.

    The Bible can be used to prove almost absurd anything. Christian Apologists-Propagandists are “Fruitcakes,” a good number of them seem to be conservative-reactionary wackaloos. And a number of this latter category just might be outright pseudo-fascist and/bigots or racist-wackaloos, to boot. One begins to suspect that people of this sort are simply interested in justifying their own stupid ideas. It’s a regular Fruitcake Factory!

    Their sort of paranoid fear of skepticism is actually quite common-folk among fundamentalists/evangelical believers, and it’s been growing in the internet age, when the ability to spread information has given skepticism a much wider audience than ever before. All things being equal, in the marketplace of ideas, skepticism and rational thought will win out as being superior modes of inquiry into reality than magical thinking ever will.

    Luckily for the religious believers, all things are not equal, and the best ideas do not always win. They can rest assured that there will always be plenty of people willing to accept irrational-claims. Indeed, it is only possible to believe in such supernatural explanations if one relaxes the critical thinking faculties and begins to use one’s ignorance as the basis for logical arguments in support of factual claims.

    But for the time being, anyway, the spirit of the age seems to be turning against faith and religious belief, and of the sure signs is to observe the loveless-paranoia and rhetoric of the religious who can glimpse the writing on the wall.If you point-out in explaining to others that none of the supernatural tripe they believe in is actually real, as would be expected, these religious believers didn’t take very kindly to someone pointing this out! LOL.

    The pain is in letting go of false notions and becoming vulnerable, in discovering something about his own past and identity. Change is really Hard. People sometimes fight change tooth and nail- they prefer security and comfy! This is very often not a conscious fight. No rational person would identify a truth and then reject it. It happens on a emotional or basically subconscious level, the mind-rationalises that the assertion isn’t true in the first place!

    Thankfully, I have never had to experienced the process of deconversion and transition from fully fundamentalist bible believer. I’m sure It is a very difficult and painful personal experience, and I sympathise with anyone who had gone through or facing the prospect of this change. It cuts into your deepest identity and plucks away dear but empirically false comforts. It pulls the rug from under your feet and causes you to have to reconstruct parts of your identity.

    In a sense, you’re left wondering “Who am I?” Your identity is compromised. In another sense, you’re still the same person, but you just become aware that you fit in differently, that some of your prior knowledge was false. Luke Skywalker was dramatically caught in this identity anguish when he learns the truth about his father being his nemesis. He doesn’t want to admit it, but he can’t help but accept the truth to be true. The whole Star Wars movie revolves on this dramatic tension and pain.

    It is the process of becoming more aware of your true surroundings. It is the process of maturity, of self discovery, of growing up! Very often the truth hurts, but it’s people who are able to embrace the truth who are able to mature personally, become empowered, and to control the world around them. All of our technology is built on embracing the empirical truth around us – you can bet that before electricity was mastered, society had to painfully let go of their thunderstorm god and grow up. Persisting in a delusion leaves you vulnerable to forces you don’t understand.

    Stupid people are easily led, and cannot always accept the truth as it will show that they are wrong. So in an effort to save face, they continue to hypnotise themselves to believe their lie and stay stupid.

    I like the metaphor of map and territory. “Truth” is when your map accurately represents the territory. “Delusion” is when your map is wrong. “Utility” is how well you travel from A to B using the map. Almost always, it’s better to have an accurate map, a true knowledge of the territory.

  9. MichaelFree says:

    R.A. McGough, Sophia-Baphomet777,

    Many will say that Commandment 10 allows slavery because it says “thou shalt not covet thy neighbors manservant or maidservant”. If you have a manservant or a maidservant (a slave in other words) then you have already broken the commandment “thou shalt not steal”. So righteous Yahweh says “thou shalt not covet slaves”, because for you Israel, “thou shalt not steal”, for you are righteous. In the World to Come the righteous Gentiles are present and equal.

    I’ve heard the Muslims say that one day when all is well everyone on the planet becomes a Muslim, and I would tell them, open your heart and recognize righteousness that is right before your own eyes, for everyone in the world should be a Muslim in your heart, even if they are not Muslim, and then you will know God.

  10. Sophia-Baphomet777 says:

    As far as the Garden of Eden and the so-called “righteous Yahweh,” He never could’ve ran the the place because he never actually existed in reality.

    No god of the theistic paternalistic-style (Allah, Yahweh, etc) existed since such a god would have implications that “contradict observed reality.” Human Egocentrism always comes to the surface, which isn’t surprising since this is all about Psychology.

    Yahweh as a concept of “god” obviously evolved out of a neighbouring-pantheon neighbouring “gods” and those in turn evolved from ancestor and spirit-worship, and so on…But not a big deal though, just a normal progression of human culture and myth from dreams and conscious self-awareness…Our in-built propensity to form a “Self-Image” and a Theory of Mind leads quite naturally to the “Project.”

    One Mythology 101 class is all it takes to realize humans have a truly mind-boggling vivid-imagination and “a need to gather followers to Justify it.” This tradition applies across time. Other myths went one better; even their gods were just as royaly screwed-up in the head too.

    We cannot imagine thd demise of ourselves nor what happens to the ego-self we ascribe to other people when they die, and natural we perceive the natural world as capricious and perhaps therefore possessed of external minds/souls (gods) or perhaps one “Big Mind.”

    The Old Testament promised victory over Israel’s human enemies, slaughtering them in war. Jesus, apparently accepted the Platonic notion —> derived from Socrates, that it was wrong to give evil in return for evil as this kind of behavior was considered unvirtuous and would be held against the dead individuals when they are judged in the Greek underworld. The Greeks understood that the underworld’s judges were men who had died. Interestingly, Christianity taught that Jesus, a man, died and was to be a judge of the dead, rather like the Hellenistic Greek notion. Whereas the Old Testament does not seem to be aware of Yahweh-Elohim ever dying to become later the judge for the dead.

    The Early Sumerian notion that all men (good and evil) will after death, wind up in edin-the-underworld has been apparently recast by later Judaism, Christianity and Islam via a “Twist” into a Heavenly Paradise called Eden or (Sumerian An-Edin) set aside for the righteous dead and denied to the unrighteous dead. In both myths the dead dwell in an edin/eden with a god as his servant (the god of edin-the-underworld, being transformed into Yahweh, Christ and Allah.).

    The pre-biblical motifs of a lost chance for man (Adam) to obtain immortality in Eden, appears to be reflected in Enkidu and Gilgamesh who both lived for a time in the edin, who both sought unsuccessfully to avoid the lot of all men: DEATH.

    This information *is not* surprising; scholars have long recognized that along with many other tribal chieftains of the period, an Abraham like character led members of his tribe from the Sumerian city of Ur, west towards the Mediterranean, to the “promised land” of Canaan. With these “Proto-Semitics” came their Gods and Goddesses.

    Thanks to the re-discovery in modern times, of considerable portions of Sumerian, Egyptian, Hittite and Hurrian, Ugaritic and many other ancient texts and literature it is now possible to recognize in the Bible many traces of Near and even Far Eastern mythologies.

    In all cases they are accommodated to the religion of Israel by boldly transferring to Yahweh the heroic feats of older/other pagan gods. For example, Sumerian literature contains a number of literary forms and themes found much later in the Bible.

    Yahweh-El is the result of the new twists derived from a re-working and transformation of an older epoch concepts by the earlier Hebrews, who followed in the footsteps of their predecessors. This late transformation may have also come to the Hebrews from other places.

    Hosea informs us that at times Yahweh was called Baal. He is the father of the gods and the father of mankind as Yahweh-El is a type of Heavenly (Cloud-Rider) “Father” to man. Baal is identified with Thunder-Clouds (Cloud-Rider Yahweh) which bring rain to nourish the earth.

    Further parallels:

    ~Thus Baal is shown at times standing on a bull hurling lightning bolts and “Thunderclouds.”
    ~Yahweh-El appeared at Mt. Sinai as a “Thundercloud.”
    ~ A golden calf is made at Mt. Sinai to represent their ‘God’ shortly after Yahweh’s appearance as a “Thundercloud.”
    ~Yahweh-El was portrayed alternately as a “bull-calf” in his manifestation as a “Thundercloud.”

    The Bible’s Yahwist-Cultic writers are either in denial of the true origins of Yahweh-El or have “covered-up” the fact that he is really a merging together of Bull-El, Baal of the earlier Myths. It is fairly difficult to say for certain where, exactly when and how the Israelites first came to identify with the god Yahweh. The Heavenly Father aspect attributed to Bull-El is their version of old Anu (Ox/Bull) Thunder ‘God of the Heavens” from Sumerian theology.

    it be could that the Israelites at first imagined him as a god of the same type as Canaanite Baal,

    ~Yahweh as did Baal also appeared as a storm/cloud-god.
    ~Yahweh like Baal first established his kingship over the world by subduing the unruly cosmic waters, symbolized by a serpent or a dragon.

    Ea is alive and well today, though many of his feats and epithets have been ascribed or assimilated into later gods. Many of Enki’s motifs appear in Genesis, ascribed to Yahweh-El. Still later, Christianity ascribed Enki’s motifs to Christ, claiming that the God of the Old Testament was none-other than Christ himself. Then came Islam, understanding that the God of Abraham was Allah, and thus to Allah was ascribed Enki’s motifs.

    These are possible later “new guises” as Yahweh, Christ and Allah, etc.

    In summary if all of the world’s most powerful leading deities, including Yahweh, are compared by their symbolism, epithets, attributes, names, works, deeds, legends and myths. The vast majority draw startling parallels straight back to Mesopotamia-Sumeria and their High God. Later people simply naturally adopted the idea of “Syncretism,” that is, the notion that the gods of different peoples were actually various manifestations of the same god- that zeus, Osiris, even Yahweh, all symbolize a single divine spirit.


  11. Danjan says:

    Shalom Richard, before I answer to the question in this thread “Is the Genocide in the Bible Justified?”, we need to udnerstand at least a bit about the “G-d” you are talking about.
    All what I have read are from christians, which cannot convince any reader, just because they don’t have the right understanding.
    Richard you have been deceived because of the same reason. You missed the mark.

    First of all there is no 2 G-d, the one from the O.T, and the lovely G-d from the New Testament. The doctrine of old and new testament came from. Marcion introduced the difference between the G-d of the “Old Testament” and the G-d” of the New Testament Jesus Christ.
    First of all there is nothing like this:
    Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: יהוה is our Elohim, יהוה is one (ECHAD):

    The word “echad” in Hebrew is used for a unit, single, not a trinitarian deity.
    Now to come to “genocide”. People who have been killed in the TaNaHk (Torah+ Prophet + Writings) unfortunately called “Old Testament”. were all guilty of wickedness deserving death.
    Many people today do not realize that they are already dead (spiritualy) and if they don’t change, their life will see the desturction after judgment.
    YHWH is the creator of everything, heavens, earth, the sea ans all that in them is! HE OWN everything and deal perfectly according to HIS instruction.
    Ps 19:7 The law of יהוה is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of יהוה is sure, making wise the simple.
    Ps 19:8 The statutes of יהוה are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of יהוה is pure, enlightening the eyes.

    To follow the Torah is life, to break the Torah is death!
    Prov 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

    Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against יהוה? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

    Job 33:12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that Eloah (G-d) is greater than man.
    Job 33:13 Why dost thou strive against him? for HE GIVETH NOT ACCOUNT OF ANY OF HIS MATTERS.


    We live by His way, we live, we leave His way, we die, first spiritualy, and after that forever.

    Deception of christians is that they have exchanged the TRUTH for man made doctrines. More than 30 000 denominations in the christian world! Why if there is only one Bible.

    Is the New Testament presenting Jesus Christ as “good G-d” who build the “church”?

    Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Miryam: for thou hast found favour with יהוה.
    Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Yehoshua (jesus).
    Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and יהוה Elohim shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
    Some few verses as references: 2Sam 7:11-13; 2Sam 7:16; Ps 89:4; Ps 132:11; Isa 9:6-7; Isa 16:5;
    Where is the “church” mentionned here? Nowhere!

    I have read that indeed YHWH told the Chidren of Ysrael to take “virgins” from their war spoil! Yes this is possible, because according to the Torah a “virgin” is a vessel who has not been defiled a,d thus can become the carrier of seed (sperma) to build the lineage of the children of Ysrael which is only through man.

    There is nothing like New and Old Testament. This is a deception from HaSatan for the blind. The Brit HaChadasha ( N.T) is build on the words of the Prophet (see jeremiah 31:31). The Hebrew word “chadash” translated as “new” is unfortunate, as it comes frol the root word “chodesh” (moon). We all know that the Moon, is not “new” every month, but RENEWED, and so is the so called “New Testament, which is in fact RENEWED through the Mashiach of Ysrael. reading the Bible in this context wil help many to see the difference.
    To finish for now, please understand that tehre have been many Mashiach, before Yehoshua, the one christian call “jesus”.
    Yehoshua was a rigteous man, following the Torah of truth and doing rigteousness. The “jesus” taugt in the churches is a law breaker, who allow the people to eat pig, and unclean food, and worship on sunday. This is the work of the anti-christ.
    We believe in the Mashiach Yehoshua send by the G-d of Ysrael to restore the true faith to believrs who enter into genuine repentance.


  12. Reine Gnade says:


    The Son of God is the life, not man’s efforts to follow the Torah.

    We must put our trust in Him to teach us and rescue us!

    No one can follow the Torah perfectly! Only the Son of God could and did do that!

    He is unique among men. He uniquely is Mashiach. No one else shares that honor with Him.

    The Son of God is not a law breaker! Had He been a law breaking His sacrifice on the cross would be invalid and He Himself would need a Savior.

    He was sinless. A sinless person hasn’t broken divine law! He was a worker or servant of His heavenly Father, not the antichrist!

    Truly He is the Mashiach Yehoshua!

  13. Reine Gnade says:

    Spelling correction.

    The Son of God is not a law breaker. Had He been a law breaker His sacrifice on the cross would be invalid and He Himself would need a Savior.

  14. Bruce Nicholson says:

    Richard, The ritualistic killing of children and infants was wide spread in the land of Canaan. The people who lived there, their brains, blood, and genetic code were literally contaminated by drinking the blood of children and eating their flesh and brains. Anyone who lived near or traveled through the land of Canaan was subjected by these fierce warrior savages and forced into slavery, sexual immorality, and onto the dinner plate. The old people of these tribes thought they could save themselves from disease by drinking and injecting their stems cells into their bodies. Steles uncovered from the region document the ritual sacrifice as does the Bible. Ruth the wife of Obed and great grandmother to David was a high priestess of Moab. She personally oversaw a watered down version of this practice. Conflicted and unable to perform the duties she fled to live with the Jews. God saved lives by having the Jews kill the Canaanites. God works in mysterious ways. He obviously has been working through you. You prayed to see Jesus. Did you look for him in the clouds? Maybe he came to you but you didn’t see. Obviously his love emanated into you and you received his spirit. That spirit has manifested out of you as the Bible Wheel. Praise God. You missed the picture but you heard the sound track. Come humbly before him, take a knee, raise your arms and let his energy flow into you. I too was raised by an abusive father and I prayed as did you….just to see his face. Jesus lives. I would love tell my story in person. I think he might still have more work for you. I live in Gig Harbor. …oh and about that Hell thing…Hell is a place that you make. It is a design of your own construction. If you choose, the nets of Sheol are there waiting for you to create your own private Hell. It’s your choice.

  15. MichaelFree says:

    Bruce Nicholson,

    Your “the Medianites had bad genes” explanation doesn’t pass the truth test:

    1. If their genes were bad then why “steal” (thou shalt not steal) all those women and girls to use for procreation, carrying on the bad genes?

    2. You seem to have a problem with drinking the blood of children. This is good that you feel that way because drinking the blood of children is inhumane, disgusting, and criminal. How do you feel about grown men having the blood of babies on their hands? If the Jews wanted to save the children from being sacrificed and eaten then why didn’t they “save” the children?

    3. You said “Anyone who lived near or traveled through the land of Canaan was subjected by these fierce warrior savages and forced into slavery, sexual immorality, and onto the dinner plate”. I would say to that, isn’t that exactly what the Jews did to the Medianites, minus the dinner plate, though one could reason that killing babies is just as bad as eating human flesh. It’s sexually immoral and inhumane to kidnap, rape, and enslave women.

    I don’t think I’ll ever win a religious argument, for all I have is love, truth, and humanity.

  16. Reine Gnade says:


    This event can only be understood if we realise that God is justified in His punishment of wickness.

    He took life during the time of Noah and He took life in this moment of time!

    Selfish man commits all sorts of sins that go undetected by man that would have him incarcerated had he been caught, yet he happily bleats like a hypocrite when He observes that the LORD is taking revenge.

    The LORD has already informed him that vengeance is His. The LORD has already informed him that He is sinless, but foolish man pays no or scant heed to the perfect Prince of Peace!

    Volunteer to be blessed. Study the Bible with a desire to be taught by the Author of the Bible!

  17. Bruce Nicholson says:

    The Medianites sent thousands of whores into the Jewish camps. 24,000 Jewish men were put to death for having sex with them and then eating the diseased sacrificial meals. They were contaminated for eating diseased food and the screwing diseased flesh. They had to clean the tribe of these diseases purposely sent by the Midianite leader. This was an act of war. He wanted to kill the Jews from within by disease. In return for this act of aggression the Jews attacked the Medianites and destroyed them. Moses allowed the survival of young prepubescent girls but not for sex but for compassion. Yahweh never told the Jews to capture, enslave, and rape women. The Jews obviously had a hard time killing any of them but Moses told them they must because they if they were of breeding age they were probably contaminated. If these girls genes were allowed into the gene pool of the Jewish tribes then it was not by Yahweh’s command. While mourning the loss of these 24,000 sons of Israel, Phineas killed Zimri and Kozbi and ended the plague. Zimri was killed for doing the exact thing, (screwing Midiantie and Moab whores) that got the other 24,000 killed. Realize this was not the time of Grace. This was the age of the Law. These men were sent to judgement because they broke the law. The penalty was known.
    The Jews did not take women to be sex slaves. Some did have sex with these worshipers of weather Gods like Molech, Baal and Asherah. This was an abomination. Leviticus 20:2–5: Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whoever he be of the children of Israel or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth his seed unto Molech, and kill him not, then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people. MichaelFree you seem to have compassion and understanding. Seek the Lord and the truth. Moses did not take sex slaves or kill lightly. These wars were for a reason. These cultures had to be destroyed. Anyone freely associating with them did so at their own peril and assumed the consequences of their actions. I’ll say it again. These cultures killed little children routinely. They practiced the abomination that brings destruction. Their rituals required it. These Gods were evil, their rituals evil and the people who practiced ritualized killing were evil. They had to be stopped. Yahweh could have done it himself but he wanted the Jews to learn. (correction from above…Boaz was married to Ruth not Obed)

  18. MichaelFree says:

    Bruck Nicholson,

    Admittedly I have not read the whole Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) so the context of Numbers 31 I am unfamiliar with, however when I read Numbers 31 I was appalled at the killing of babies and innocents and the seeming kidnap of virgins for sexual slavery.

    You can’t convince me that killing babies is ever moral, including in Numbers 31, or the firstborn of the Egyptian sons for that matter. Won’t happen. Not this lifetime.

    You can’t convince me that the God of Truth ever told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as a ploy to test his loyalty to him. What kind of God usurps one’s humanity toward other human beings and says that good is bad and bad is good? Surely we can look into our neighbors eyes and see their soul, whatever their religion, and know that they want to be treated just the same as we want to be treated, and this truth is hindered by by many religions, perhaps purposefully, for many religions shred this natural truth by preaching division instead of preaching oneness. Human beings come first, then we’ll know true righteousness.

    For that matter there are two Jesus’. One is righteous and one is unrighteous. The Gospels try to extract from the reader their own righteousness, or unrighteousness for that matter, but too often the reader doesn’t even read it with a fresh mind, so they take the clergies word for it. For instance when Jesus says “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me”, many Christians take this statement and look at people of other faiths and say to them that no matter how good they are they are going to hell unless they become a Christian. That is the unrighteous Jesus. The righteous Jesus’ name is THE TRUTH, so the righteous Jesus says “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by THE TRUTH”, and this now includes all those other faiths who are filled with people who are mostly good, thus making the statement righteous.

    Or how about this one, Jesus says to love him more than anyone else, your own family and your own kids. If one looks at this as Jesus the “person” who wants to be loved more than everyone you know, then that Jesus is unrighteous. But once his name becomes THE TRUTH, the statement suddenly becomes righteous, for anyone who loves the truth more than anything is surely righteous. For instance do you love your family more than the truth, so if a family member murdered someone, would you hide them, not loving the truth, or would you turn them in, loving the truth? THE TRUTH is MOST HIGH.

    When Jesus says that whatever you pray to God in his name he will do it, surely millions upon millions have done this and saw nothing happen. Is Jesus a liar then? No, not if his name is the THE TRUTH. So if you pray to God in TRUTH then the THE TRUTH will come to you. For instance I have a friend who is mentally ill. His mother prays for his miraculous recovery but nothing happens. She says that she tells him to take his meds or he will go to the mental hospital again. Do you see the miracle of TRUTH? She prays to God in TRUTH and is seemingly dismayed while all the while THE TRUTH is sitting right in front of her.

    Peter fishes on the wrong side of the ship. The rock is TRUTH, upon which the church remains to be built.

    Which Jesus is the one that was here? Who knows! Who cares! All I know is how to be a good person and to recognize good people, to help people in need, and to speak the truth. I’m not of the Christian religion. I’m a follower of righteousness. The path of truth.

  19. Sharknado says:

    How can you worship such an evil storm/cloud-rider deity who killed so many babies, children and innocent animals throughout, and who plans to slaughter billions more in the horrors of the Book of Revelation?

    The atrocities of the Mass Murderer in the Sky, a/k/a Yahweh-El, God, Jehovah, Lord God, the “Almighty Mother Humper,” etc., are all the moral grounds I need to reject and despise this “imaginary desert storm-god” whom so many people ignorantly worship, but I also not to mention just plain old good common-sense and basic-knowledge.

    The abovementioned atrocities of your Gruesome Gore God, and his many broken promises and threats to, and murder of, his own chosen. Get real, man! What is the heck is wrong with you?!? The only thing a person has to do to disbelieve it is to read all that crap…Really, Exodus 21 is all I need to abhor and loathe its evil, malicious, Sadistic Death-God, and its mode of Cultic-Worship. Would I worship such a Bastard? Hell No! I have too much compassion for the human race to do such a thing.

    Exodus 21 is sufficient. Basically everything else in your the precious “Good Book” is unneeded ballast and bilge which can be thrown overboard. All the other commands of pain and destruction, and actual deliverance of same, committed and commanded by Tyrant-Yahweh and his armies, are just extra baggage. All the holocausts, divers punishments of flying rocks, hornets, poisonous snakes, boils, hemorrhoids, ad nauseam, are not at all needed to convince me of one inarguable, incontrovertible reality.

    If God had wanted to, He would have commanded Moses to kill the “women children” as well. But God and Moe spared them. Just what are the “women children”? They are textually contrasted with women who have been with a man. Therefore, we can conclude that “women children” refers to virgins. It isn’t hard to figure out why Moses and God would want them kept alive. Keep them in bondage, bend them over and fukc them as much as you want, show them total disrespect. You- the Big Hero Stud!

    Reading Leviticus 10:1-5, we can gather they were emotionless-bastards who had no sympathy or compassion whatsoever. (Hopefully a few modern ones have a heart; their ancestors sure the hell didn’t!) Have you noticed every time Big-Bad Biblegod kicked someone’s ass, we read of no expressions of grief, no sadness, no funerals, no eulogies for the dearly departed?

    Exodus 32
    Verses 34-35:
    This is far from being the only place in the Bible wherein God hurts and harms His own holy chosen. He kicks their enemies’ asses most of the time, but kicks their asses sometimes too! God even kills off enormous quantities of His own select group at times. Just keep delving deeper into The Babble and you’ll find a few of those instances.

    The children of Israel could never just sit back and relax, lie around and shoot the breeze, or have a picnic and a good ‘ol time, or tell stories around the campfire at night. Yahweh was always making them “celebrate” by working and sacrificing. And animals were always the victims of this screwed-up “primitive society.”

    The sophistry of the authors of The Bible is matchless! Anyone who claims Yahweh is a God of love and forgiveness has either: never read Leviticus 20 and 21, or, not paid attention while reading them, or, has a warped concept of love and morality and fairness, or, all of the above.

    Leviticus 20
    Stone them ’till they bleed, sayeth the compassionate Yahweh.

    Verse 10:
    Yet more hypocrisy by Christians! Surely, some of the adulteresses who committed adultery with the adulterers ended up with child later on! So, when Yahweh had them killed He was killing a future unborn baby also. But Xtians say you can’t do that. They scream in anger about Roe v. Wade. They insist a fetus, yea, even a zygote, is a person. They screeched that abortion is murder and marched around abortion clinics and picket and sometimes kill abortion-performing doctors and their staff members. They bomb Planned Parenthood offices. Then they go to church on Sunday and worship a lowly storm-deity who killed anyone who committed adultery and the potential babies resulting from such adultery, without taking pains to preserve the fetus first. Perhaps in their twisted logic it’s okay for God to kill unborn babies, as long as humans don’t do it.

    Leviticus 26
    Awww…one of the sweetest little chapters in the entire Good Book! In verses 16 and 17 and 22, Yahweh proves once more He is a hardened baby-hater. For this reason alone I can never worship the Fiend, since I love wee babies. Leviticus is one of the contenders for the sickest book in the Anthology.

    Deut. 21 is pristine. Unsoiled. Never nebulous. Short ‘n sweet, to-the-point. Just kill ’em. Don’t love ’em or quietly talk to ’em. Don’t ground them for a month or make them sit in their room or take their TV away. KILL THEM!!! What would the moron James Dobson say about this? His Focus On the Family outfit in Colorado spreads the word that Biblegod is a god of love and family, that the family is the core unit of America and goodness, that the family is preeminent and a creation of God.

    Sorry, dude, but I love people, especially women, wee babies and children…have a conscience, a sense of morality- “Two Somethings” Yahweh knew nothing about: “a Conscience, and its associated Sense of Morality.”

    I have enough dam intelligence and discernment to read the Bible and recognize that it’s man-made deity is “a creation of da sick and twisted human psyche,” that it, like all other gods, was created in man’s image! The real inventor of the God: THE HUMAN PSYCHE!!

    All this is from God’s Little Instruction Book on how to treat your fellow human beings with compassion and respect. I’d rather be in Hell than be stuck with the mass murderer and fiend Yahweh. No thanks. So I am elated beyond words that I do not worship this primitive Iron Age Bastard “God.” LOL.

    Case Closed.

  20. Sharknado says:

    B. Nick,

    Many in the religious culture insist that the BibleGod-Yahweh and the Bible provide the foundation for all Morality. That’s all fine and dandy.

    How do you would feel about these accounts of rape, murder, incest, slavery, torture, genocide, and infanticide if the acts had been perpetrated say by a human being: Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.

    Hey, I’m just sayin…doesn’t your so-called “Moral Code” require you to denounce these acts as horrific and monstrous, Eh? Or do you hold Gawd to a different “Standard” simply because “He is the Almighty,” and of course he can do whatever the hell wants?”


    EXODUS 32:27 After seeing the golden calf, God commanded the Levites, “Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” (3,000) [were slaughtered], and [BibleGod was PLEASED!]
    NUMBERS 16:35 A fire from God killed (250) men.
    NUMBER 16:48 A plague from God killed (14,700).
    NUMBERS 25:9 A plague from God killed (24,000).
    [NUMBERS 31:31-40 God divided the plunder to the soldiers, the priest, the Israelites and for tribute to the Lord. 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys [and 32,000 sexy virgin women]
    JOSHUA 8:22-25 God helped Joshua battle and slaughter (12,000) men and women in the city of Ai. None escaped.
    JUDGES 1:4 God gave the Canaanites and Perizzites into the hands of Judah. (10,000) enemy killed.
    JUDGES 15:15 Samson killed (1,000) men with the jawbone of an ass.
    JUDGES 16:27-30 God helped Samson pull down the pillars of the temple, killing (3,000).
    JUDGES 20:43-48 The Israelites killed (25,000) men. (600) men fled to the desert. The Israelites went and put everyone in the towns “to the sword, including the animals and everything else they found.” Then they burned the towns down.
    1 SAMUEL 4:10 The Philistines killed (30,000) Israelite soldiers.
    1 SAMUEL 18:27 David and his men killed (200) Philistines, presenting their foreskins to the king to win Michal in marriage.
    1 SAMUEL 30:17 David killed all but (400) Amalekites, who escaped.
    1 SAMUEL 6:19 Some of the men of Beth Shemesh looked into the Ark. God punished them by killing all (70) of them.
    2 SAMUEL 8:1-18 David’s acts included killing 2 out of 3 Moabite soliders, hamstringing (6,900) chariot horses, killing (22,000) Syrians, and striking down (18,000) Edomites in the Valley of Salt. Verse 6 says “…The Lord gave David victory wherever he went.”
    2 SAMUEL 10:18 David killed (700) charioteers and (40,000) Aramean foot soldiers.
    2 SAMUEL 18:6-7 David’s army slaughtered (20,000) men in the forest of Ephraim.
    2 SAMUEL 24:15 God sent a plague on Israel to punish David for sin. (70,000) people died.
    1 KINGS 20:29-30 The Israelites fought the Syrians. Enemy body count for a single day = (100,000). A wall fell on the (27,000) remaining people.
    2 KINGS 1:10-12 Elijah called down fire from heaven. (50) men were consumed by the flames.
    2 KINGS 2:23-24 – (42) Fourty-two children made fun of Elisha on the roadside because he was bald. Elisha cursed them. Two bears came out of the woods and mauled them to death!
    2 KINGS 10:7 Jehu had Ahab’s (70) sons beheaded. He then sent the heads to their grieving father.
    2 KINGS 10:14 Jehu ordered the death of Ahab’s family…(42) people.
    2 KINGS 19:35 An angel of the Lord killed (185,000) men in the Assyrian camp.
    2 CHRONICLES 13:17 God delivered the Israelites to Abijah and Judah. (500,000) enemy dead.

    And God was WELL PLEASED.

  21. MichaelFree says:


    You cannot possibly care about the sanctity of life without also caring about the sanctity of the unborn child. I’m not going to condemn expectant mothers who have had abortions but I will condemn the practice of abortions, because it’s an abomination, plain and simple.

    You know this. You’d have to warp your mind to see a sonogram of a baby in the womb or the bump of an expectant mother and say it’s all right to pluck the baby out and kill it.

  22. Satan'sReject777 says:


    Most abortions are spontaneous and they happen naturally within the human body. Most women who have such an abortion never even know it because it happens in the first month. It’s very, very common.

    So in fact the biggest abortionist, if in fact Biblegod is responsible for what goes on in your body, is then, god!

    Why does he abort some unborn children instead of letting all of them be born to enjoy a of happy life?
    The Old Testament says he did proving he was the greatest and most active abortionist in history. LOL.

    Does the world really need more humans? Hell No. We have over six billion people now, why add to the horror?? Consider adopting a cat or a dog instead. If someone has already impregnated you, consider abortion!!

    I can do well without this “family value” thank you. Now don’t get me wrong, I have no qualms at all about other people who already have kids. That sits just fine by me.

    But the thing that really irks me the most comes when parents drag their precious little miscreants along with them into public places like movie theaters, restaurants, and airplanes.

    You may think of them as adorable but trust me, no one else does (if other people say they like your kids, they lie). As long as the parents wrapped their children properly and prevented the fecal stench, this wouldn’t pose much of a problem, but one thing parents haven’t had the ability to control: the screaming siren sound coming from their whining-crying babies!!!

    Interestingly, when you listen to the cries from newly born animals, they usually make a cute or sad sound that makes you want to cuddle them and feel sorry for them. Birds chirp, kittens go, “mew-mew-mew,” and dogs whimper (it just makes you want to go “ah”).

    But when a human baby cries, it doesn’t inspire love or affection. Oh no, no, no. What you get from the infant’s mouth part emerges a wail that goes something like this:


    It Shrieks! And it gets louder and more piercing the longer it goes on. And it goes on, and on, and on (like a Satanic Energizer bunny rabbit).

    What evolutionary reason did natural selection cause this monstrosity to appear? Have you ever heard any young animal cry as loud, so long or one that causes so much irritation? No. Only the cry of a human baby irritates. Why?

    Attention Richard Dawkins, Desmond Morris or any evolutionary biologist; explain that one. LOL!

    32 Skidoo.

  23. MichaelFree says:


    From your first post I thought you were a reasonable person but I may have been deceived.

    Perhaps the “philosophers” got a hold of you and spun you in circles, for theirs is never conclusion but more circles, so they say “let’s go on philosophizing” even more, because that is what they do, they go on and on and on and on. Many can’t even decide that a color is a certain color or that an object is a certain object, yet a child will tell you the truth and know without a doubt.

    Human morality is not to be found in how you want to treat the world but rather in how you want to be treated by the world, then you will know how to treat the world. This truth is eternal and it is undeniable.

    Do you generally prefer that people tell you the truth or tell you lies? Do you generally prefer that people do things to you, your person or your property, either with or without your agreement?

    Do you know that the vast vast majority of those 6 + billion people you seem to have a problem with answer those two questions the same way you just did? So I ask you, will you follow the path of truth or the path of hypocrisy? Will you neglect this fundamental understanding of what is good and honorable and step outside of the path of truth for your own greed and want?

    And while your at, possibly (hopefully) thinking about the path of truth and the path of hypocrisy remember that at some point in life you will probably appreciate help from someone else, so when you see someone else that appears to need that same help, offer to help them, and do this when and where you can.

    Remember the seed of all that is good and all that is righteous:

    Good thoughts = Are you going to view the world with eyes of theft or the eyes of a giver? Recognize unmet need in the world and do something about it.

    Good words = Speak the truth and do not lie.

    Good deeds = Don’t lay your hands on other people or their property without their agreement.

    Respond to lies and trespasses in proportion to the lie or the trespass, but don’t act with vengeance, but rather with truth, restraint, and compassion.

    I’ve been around people who speak like you before and I have debated them. It’s uncomfortable. Many have had this negative view about people, the human family, and a sense of “the ends justify the means” instead of “the means the justify the ends”.

    I’ve heard the atheists and the theists argue. Many theists argue that morality can’t be known without a concept of God and many atheists accept this. Yet they never seem to realize that generally humanity has always and will always want to be treated the same way by other people and this requires no concept of God and nothing more than a sense of truth and honor, that one should treat other people’s families the same way that they treat their own family. This is eternally true.

    The great usurpers of humanity have been unjust religion and unjust people who think that the few can govern the many and who think that their wants and greed outweigh the fundamental truths of who we are and what we are doing here. The sickness of the world is thinking “I am better than other people”.

    When you say what you say about babies crying it infuriates me. If you had it in your heart to see that baby smile and to look into their eyes and see their soul then their crying would mean nothing to you but another smile on your face and a desire to fulfill whatever their need may be, even if that need is just to cry and cry for cryings sake.

    You say this nonsense about “so in fact the biggest abortionist, if in fact Biblegod is responsible for what goes on in your body, is then, god!”. You know full well that that is not the way the world works. You already don’t look to the Bible to know how the world works so why would you say this thing? Surely you understand that the health of an individual is completely random. Miscarriages happen. Some babies die real young. Some young people die early deaths. Some people live long lives and then die. It’s random. Get over yourself.

    And I’ve heard that the Earth is overpopulated again and again and I call BS on that one. I’m not going to debate you about it though. The powers that be in the world, the usurpers, have rigged life and rigged death. They care more about empire, economy, and military, than they care about the quality of life on Earth. They are the sickness, not human beings. Have you ever noticed that most people are mostly good people? The people of most nations don’t want to war with other nations until the small sick group comes to power and prods and prods and confuses and confuses until they get their way. Their time is short.

    You said “You may think of them as adorable but trust me, no one else does (if other people say they like your kids, they lie”. YOU JUST LIED RIGHT HERE, CHECK YOUR WORDS, CHECK THE TRUTH, THEN FIX IT. Want me to do it for you? Here’s the edit: “You may think of them as adorable but trust me, many other people don’t (if other people say they like your kids, many of them lie)”.

    You said “As long as the parents wrapped their children properly and prevented the fecal stench, this wouldn’t pose much of a problem, but one thing parents haven’t had the ability to control: the screaming siren sound coming from their whining-crying babies!!!” You do know that to this very day your feces stink don’t you? You do know that when you were a baby you cried and cried with a screaming siren sound don’t you? And yet your life is worth something. I bet you like your life that started out with stinking feces and a screaming siren sound. Life doesn’t suck.

    There is a famous quote “get busy living or get busy dying”. I like living.

  24. MichaelFree says:


    I apologize if I have offended you in any way. I also apologize for certain words I used which I should not have. Forgive me.

  25. MichaelFree says:

    I also apologize to anyone else that reads my comments.

  26. Bruce Nicholson says:

    michaelfree…please define in your own words what you think the meaning of the word, “righteousness”.

    You said, “I’m a follower of righteousness.” What is right or wrong for you…in your opinion?

  27. Bruce Nicholson says:

    stanreject777……You and I will die. It is a fact that our life in the mortal plane is limited. We have limited life spans, limited intelligence, limited vision, and limited understanding. The old testament sections that you project as a list of God’s atrocities are included to project to the reader a sense of dominion over us. It was a time of lawlessness and great suffering. Mans inhumanity to man could only be overcome by adopting God’s laws. The laws had to be followed for them to work, for the society to remain, and for the people to flourish. This period of human development no longer exists. We do not live under the penalty of God’s law. The period we know have is called the period of grace. You’re compassion for these peoples who died years ago exists in your soul because God has written it inside you. You have the gift of Grace inside you. I would not go so far as to say they were subhuman but it is clear that people in those days were not as advanced as we are now. Those people would have died whether or not they were killed by the Jews. What would have lived would have been their lawlessness, their abominations, and their evil if their societies were allowed to continue. Many Jews died at the hands of these peoples but you don’t know all of the story. Only the victorious keep the records. If you thought the Romans, the Nazi’s or anyone else was evil then you would not have liked these other societies either. They all have been destroyed.
    If you believe in heaven, which is better a) to be on earth B) to be in heaven. Is a child who is taken into heaven better off than the child who is forced to remain crying while you do nothing about it? Is the death of a righteous man something to be scared of? Or bitter about? Samson died in the end. David died in the end. David was not allowed to build God’s temple because of the blood on his hands. All of the ancient Jews did something wrong but they were made righteous by following God’s laws. The idea that people died because of God can only be accompanied by the idea that the people lived because of God. Why did he bring you into the world? Did you know that when you talk bad about him that you are breaking his law? It is a good thing his have given you his son to save you by bringing grace into the world.

  28. MichaelFree says:


    1. Good thoughts = Looking at the world and recognizing when people’s needs are being met and recognizing when people’s needs aren’t being met. Righteousness is choosing to help people in need when and where I can.

    2. Good words = Realizing that beliefs are neither true nor false so they are beliefs, and clarifying when I am speaking about beliefs, not asserting that a belief is true or false when I am unsure. but that the truth is provable and functional. Before my words I have two choices. I can choose to tell the truth or choose to tell a lie. Righteousness is choosing to tell the truth.

    3. Good deeds = Not laying my hands on other people or their property without their consent (not trespassing against other people or their property). Righteousness is recognizing other people’s right to agreement with respect to what happens to their person or their property.

    Righteousness is seeing other people do the three things above and knowing that they are righteous for doing so. If I base my judgments on the basis of gender, religion, atheism, race, nationality, sexuality, or a person’s looks, I have failed, because these are “appearance” and have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not someone is being righteous or not being righteous.

    Righteousness is asking for forgiveness when I fail at the three things above, coming back to the path of truth, and giving forgiveness to others when they fail at the three things above, where hopefully (but not always) they ask me for forgiveness directly.

    Responding to lies and trespasses against person or property in proportion to the lie or the trespass, not with vengeance, but rather with truth, restraint, and compassion.

    Like a scale people can be mostly good or mostly bad. Mostly good people do the three righteous things mostly. Some people try to never fail at the three righteous things (born again),.

  29. Reine Gnade says:

    No one is made righteous by keeping God’s law.
    Rightstanding with Him is a gift that He decides to give
    to broken and contrite sinners.

  30. MichaelFree says:

    It’s unreasonable to say that following a righteous law is not a righteous act.

  31. MichaelFree says:

    The simple fact is that none of us knows for sure that their religion is the “right” one. None of us knows this for sure. None of us can demonstrate to other people that their religion is the “right” one.

    What you have is faith, a belief. Faith can be beautiful but it can also be extremely ugly.

    I wouldn’t feel comfortable guessing about which religion is the “right” religion and threatening other people with damnation if they don’t follow my “right” religion. What if you are wrong about your religion being the “right” one and that which you threatened others with actually happens to you! Many would then scream “THE INJUSTICE!” and rightfully fall back on THE PROVABLE FACT of whether or not they were a good person or not, and they would be justified!

    Remember, all things whatsoever that people should do to you, do to them likewise. With this in mind, you don’t want to be persecuted or threatened because of your chosen religion so don’t go around persecuting and threatening other people because of their chosen religion. Choose to be good person and rise above the hate and division.

    Jesus said, love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, and love thy neighbor as thyself. What if until you saw your neighbor as yourself, regardless of their religion, that you never knew the righteousness that God embodies, so you never learned to truly love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, but rather, you just thought you did? I’ll take my chances with loving everyone equally, even to my death standing up for their salvation, standing with them, not against them.

    Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees you will never enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

  32. MichaelFree says:

    I should have began my last paragraph with “What if” so it would have been “What if unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees you will never enter into the Kingdom of Heaven”.

    I apologize because I’m not threatening anyone with damnation if they don’t love their neighbor as thyself without regard for their chosen religion.

    But I will tell you this, don’t lie to them and don’t lay your hands on them or their property without their consent.

  33. Bruce Nicholson says:


    The idea that you have rights also includes the idea that you have wrongs or that I have rights also. At some point our individual rights meet and become the point of contention between us. You seem to see property rights as being very important. (note: if you have to pay “rent” each month to the state then who really owns the property? …I say rent some say taxes but it is all just semantics. Each month the state takes your money and you have to pay because you own the land….or does the land own you? Even if it is smaller property you still have to have a place to keep your stuff. You have to clean your stuff, waterproof and maintain your stuff, insure your stuff, and hopefully find time to use your stuff because you are working non-stop to make money to pay for the taxes on your stuff) The idea of rights is a belief in a system where some things are right and some things are wrong. This system is sometimes called the fabric of life. If you think you have rights then you believe in this fabric of life system. The idea also incorporates the concept of laws. If we have rights then we make laws that protect them. This whole system is in our heads or written on our hearts. It doesn’t exists for the other animals, only humans. The animals use the,” survival of the fittest” system. Laws separate us from the animals. This separation occurred in stages. We used to have the law but now we have grace. The laws are written on our hearts by God. That’s why you feel or think you have rights. You have this notion of fairness, equality, freedom, self-worth, and entitlement. We call societies that limit these “rights”, repressive, unjust, and tyrannical. This whole system is from God. We believe that we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. Another part of this system is life after death. God gives you the choice. You can follow the path of righteousness which is the path shown by the teachings of his son Jesus Christ. To choose this path is to follow his light as he illuminates your mind with the truth that is love. As you walk this path you will find that you become the path. You evolve into a higher being or a better person. If you choose to fight the path or ignore or rail against it you are choosing a life of confusion, anger, and bitterness. Joy is found seeking God. Wrath is found serving materialism. This choice is yours MichaelFree

  34. MichaelFree says:


    Stop looking up until you look within. Until you look within you will say meaningless stuff like “we used to have the law but now we have grace”. I tell you now you have no grace unless you have the law. The law is within you and was taught to all of us at some point in our lives, usually when we were children. Even the ancients learned these laws as children. All children in the history of the world learn these laws at some point. Some people then only treat their family or their tribe according to these laws. The spreading of the laws to every family and every tribe and every nation on Earth will happen in our lifetime I believe. And the tribes will mourn.

    I will show you the law. The eternal law that some ancients knew and observed and that has been hidden. I’m not going to listen to blather about ancient people’s being stupid or uncivilized. This world is not what it seems. The scientists will know that the Truth is empirically good and true with respect to human behavior towards one another.

    The seed of our words and the seed of our deeds determines whether or not those words and those deeds are righteous or unrighteous.


    Ask anyone in the world two questions:

    1. Do you prefer that people tell you the truth or tell you lies?
    2. Do you prefer that people do things to you, your person or your property, either with or without your agreement?

    Most (if not all) people on planet Earth with answer those two questions the same way. Most of us want to be told the truth and not to be lied to. Most of us want other people to get our consent before laying their hands on our person or our property.

    If we remain within the way of truth we speak the truth and respect other people and their property. When we see unmet need in the world we try to understand what we can do to alleviate that need, and then offer help when and where we can according to our means. If we step outside of the way of truth into the way of hypocrisy we lie, don’t respect other people or their property, and we don’t help people in need. The only way back to the way of truth is through coming to truth through repentance and remission of hypocrisy.

    These good things are the very seed of all that is righteous and we all (most of us) want the same thing for ourselves. We all have a “realm” around our persons with these rules intact: HELP ME WHEN I’M IN NEED. SPEAK THE TRUTH. RESPECT ME AND MY PROPERTY. These are the spiritual rules of materiality and the air we breathe. I love the Earth. I’ll take my life here on Earth for as long as possible before going to heaven. It’s my choice. The artisan who builds with their hands loves their creation. It is theirs. Take it from them and you are a thief. I have a picture of my Father. Take it from me and you are a thief. You can have your philosophy about materialism, but I know what’s mine, and I respect what’s yours. Ownership is truth in the material realm.

    Many people don’t see the realm around everyone in the world, so they judge not on the realm being broken but rather on other surface things, such as gender, what religion the person is, if the person is an atheist, what race they are, what nationality they are, or what their sexuality is.

    Your book that you call Holy speaks about the realm and then hides it.

    I’ve had a Near Death Experience with a trip to heaven. I was on my way and then came back. I don’t have to be convinced of heaven because I know, not believe, that it is real. Heaven is not a contest of religions.

    Love thy neighbor as thyself means just what it means. Love they neighbor Jew or Muslim or atheist just as you love Christians, and stand up for them. Would you take Barrabas over the God of Truth? Would you take a killer of innocents as your God? Be careful who you condemn here on Earth. It’s one thing to have beliefs that condemn others but when those beliefs become actual oppression then you truly have a problem.

    The other day I was looking at a Muslim man and a woman that was presumably his wife, wearing a head scarf. I smiled as I saw their humanity and knew that we were brothers and sisters. Then I thought, what if they looked upon me not with eyes of a family member but rather with eyes of condemnation, that I wasn’t of their faith, so why should they like me. I was saddened when I thought this. Of course I didn’t know what they were thinking but this is what I thinking. It’s makes me want to cry to think that anyone would hate me or pray for my condemnation because of my beliefs. When you pray to a condemner you are praying for other people’s condemnation. I don’t pray for anyone’s condemnation at all, for I know that everyone is part of the human family, both the righteous and the unrighteous, but I know that unrighteousness itself is condemned and will be revealed.

  35. Reine Gnade says:

    Michael, life can’t be understood unless we understand the importance
    of Christ’s atoning sacrifice. Is your focus on the cross of Christ?

  36. MichaelFree says:


    I view Jesus Christ going to the cross as a lesson in righteousness and a lesson in unrighteousness.

    Did Jesus ever help people in need? Answer: Yes.

    Did Jesus ever lie to anyone? Answer: No.

    Did Jesus ever lay hands on other people or their property without their consent? Answer: No.

    Jesus ALWAYS helped people in need in the Gospels. At no point does he ever turn anyone away.

    Jesus NEVER lied to anyone.

    The only time Jesus ever laid his hands on anyone was when he put the cords in his hands and kicked the moneychangers out of the temple. Whose temple is it? Is it the moneychangers temple or God’s temple? Of course it’s God’s temple! Who broke agreement and laid hands on whose property without their consent? Was it Jesus laying his hands on the moneychangers or was it the moneychangers laying their hands on God’s temple? Jesus laid down the law righteously kicking those snakes out of God’s temple.

    Moreover why did they stay out of the temple? Perhaps they knew he was the Son of God?

    The very idea of sacrificing an innocent person’s life to God is abhorrent in my view. My belief is that Jesus shows us the way of Truth, and that the Truth is worth sacrificing worldly gain for. He went to the cross because the Jews of that time wouldn’t gather together and listen to him and instead sought to protect their position and false authority in life by having him killed. Such is the history of human beings killing each other for power, however illegitimate.

    I view the cross as a symbol of a torture instrument that should not be idolized. I also view Jesus as a figure that should not be idolized. Jesus said and did righteousness his whole life, perfectly, and shows us how we also can say and do righteousness. Only the one and only begotten Son of God can be perfect his whole life. The rest of us have to born again, realize that no amount of grace will ever destroy the law, “treat other people the way that you want to be treated”, and try our best everyday to adhere to the law. The law should be loved because after all how much more awesome does the law have to be that it is EXACTLY how we ourselves want to be treated? God is awesome.

    Jesus said to pray to God directly, that he is not in between God and us. He is not God, but rather was filled with the Holy Spirit of God since birth, whereas we have to be born-again. In the sense that he was filled with the Holy Spirit since birth and never was unrighteous he can be said to be a part of God always, and indeed God always, God with us. But he is not God. God is a Spirit and Jesus was here in the flesh. He prayed to God many times and God does not pray to himself. He has a mind like me and you do which is why he prayed to God many times. To have a mind like me and you do is a distinction from being God.

    God is a Spirit Jesus said. Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit is available to all who sincerely love the truth and abide in the truth. God is ONE.

  37. MichaelFree says:

    Anyway, I’ve had enough.

    Ultimately the truth and the love of the truth is within you. It’s always been present within human beings. It’s the acknowledgment that the seed of how we want to be treated by other people in both word and deed is also exactly how other people want to be treated.

    Enlightened individuals have known it. Many families live it every day. Many tribes live it every day. Many just societies live it every day. Hopefully one day the whole world will live it.

    Within you is your birthright. It is the love of truth and it is honorable. It is my belief that religion is a supernatural-wannabe and destructive distortion and usurpation of each of our birthright to this love of truth and the fruit of religion bears witness to its destructive nature. One need not look above if they look within.

    When an innocent person is put on trial here on Earth and walks out of the courtroom with a proclamation of “not guilty”, with a sigh of relief many times they praise the truth. THE TRUTH ITSELF IS PRAISEWORTHY AND IT’S NOT A DEITY.

    When someone truly loves another person and when someone loves another person so much that they help them when they are in need, that LOVE ITSELF IS PRAISEWORTHY AND IT’S NOT A DEITY.

    My Father taught me the Golden Rule and that there is no bogeyman. My nephew is learning the Golden Rule now and he is also taught there is no bogeyman. Supernatural deity is the bogeyman.


    Love and truth.

  38. Reine Gnade says:

    The Son of God is worthy of worship!
    See Hebrews 1:5-14
    A voice came out of the cloud, saying,

    “This is my beloved Son; listen to Him.”
    Only the good shepherd is the beloved Son. He is worthy of our worship because He is God – absolutely sovereign, righteous and unchanging!
    He is both a human and divine king, the perfect fulfillment of the messianic prophecies!

    Angels worship the Son of God (See Hebrews 1:6). God was responsible for creation (See Psalm 102:25-26); completing the picture we learn it is the Son of God (See Hebrews 1:10).

    Truly the Son of God is God and as such, He deserves our worship!

  39. Reine Gnade says:

    The Son of God demonstrated His sovereignty by quieting the storm!
    “Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing.” Jesus awoke and said to the sea, “Hush, be still.” And the wind died down. He then said to them, “Why are you so timid? How is it that you have no faith?” They said to one another, “Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?” (Mark 4:35-41)

    Enjoy your Bible studies!

  40. MichaelFree says:


    Some people like me believe that God is a Spirit and not a deity. The Spirit of Love and the Spirit of Truth can be said to be God. These things are not a deity because even deity is judged by them.

    I know that there is an intelligence outside of nature. These things are deity or a supernatural intelligence but I will not bow to it. Why should I as I don’t know it’s true nature. I can only assume and hope that it is only righteous without having a shred of unrighteousness. Until I know for sure I assume nothing, because I don’t have faith, I only have truth. I know that may be hard to understand but faith to me is a mirage. All religions have faith and not all of them are accurate. Accuracy requires truth, not faith. I like accuracy.

    If Jesus came back in the flesh and was only righteous including to people who are not of the Christian faith, then I would see his righteousness, and I could reasonably conclude that he is the Messiah. However If Jesus comes back and threatens to slay all that will not bow to him and that will not change their religion, then I will know that he is not the Messiah. How many grown adults would feel comfortable bowing to a being? Would I want to see my Mother or my Father bowing to some being? I don’t think so. Not this lifetime. This lifetime I am free and that includes the freedom to not bow to any being ever. Again, I have no problem praising truth and love, but bowing to a supernatural being, the answer is no. My Father taught me better than that. I have blood on this soil and have been washed of all my past sins. I give up my sovereignty to no being.

    Again, treat other people the way you want to be treated. Do I want to be bowed to? The answer is no.I think it’s disgusting and a vestige of times past when people were treated like chattel.

    Take it how you will. Most people of most religions are good people so if someone threatens to slay them for not converting their religion, then I have a big problem with them, and so does truth and love.

    Again, treat other people the way that you want to be treated. Do you think Jesus is going to slay people who will not convert at his second coming just like the crazy fundamentalist ISIS is now trying to convert Christians to Islam with a sword? That’s the comparison. I live in the real world.

  41. MichaelFree says:


    I should also point out that I don’t disparage you because you have no problem bowing to a being. Faith like that can be beautiful but the problem I see is what happens when I say no to bowing to that same being. Does the being get angry, perhaps threatening me? Would you, having no problem bowing to that being, also think that I am less than you or somehow unworthy because I refuse to bow to that being?

    Think about it. Bowing means nothing. Now our words and our deeds, they mean everything.

    I know that Messiah is coming, but what if Messiah is righteousness itself, and not a being? What if each and every one of us has the Messiah within them, which is the way of truth as opposed to the way of hypocrisy? That would make us not Messiah, because Messiah is Messiah always, but rather just plain human beings who have the righteousness of Messiah inside of us, where we change, and try our best to live up to the law “treat other people the way that you want to be treated”?

    For instance Jesus said he is “the truth”. But the truth is not a being but rather a fundamental fact.

    I don’t find righteousness in Jesus in the Gospels without replacing his name with “the truth”. This to me seems to be the key to finding the hidden meaning of the Gospels. For instance, Jesus said “He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me”. To me that is just plain weird and extremely selfish. That might work for some but not for me. So I see it this way “He that loveth father or mother more than “the truth” is not worthy of “the truth”: and he that loveth son or daughter more than “the truth” is not worthy of “the truth”. To paint a picture, say your father, mother, son, or daughter commits a murder, do you turn them in to face justice or do you seek to hide them so that they can get away with it? One who loves the truth loves the truth more than they love hiding them so they turn them in. And then they visit them in prison. That’s me. I love the truth just as much as I love my family members but in a battle the truth shall win. Now it’s righteous.

    Or how about this one, Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me”. Many “Christians” use this phrase to divide themselves from anyone who is not a “Christian”. We are less than you and not worthy, but although we are mostly good people we are to be carted off to hell. Wow. Weird religion you got there, seeing as I know plenty of mostly good people who are not Christian. So I see it this way, “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by “the truth”‘. Now it includes all the mostly good people of all different religions. Now it’s righteous.

    Again, to each their own. The interpretation of parables is up to the reader.

    The other day I watched a video of a Palestinian young man who had either been injured or shot by the Israelis in Gaza. He was on the ground wounded. A rescue crew came to help them and when they got near him, he said “there is no God but God”, and I was amazed at his humanity, amazed at his faith, and humbled, and knew that he was my brother. Then as he was laying there wounded and the rescue crew was merely feet away, an Israeli sniper shot and killed him. My heart was hurt.

  42. MichaelFree says:


    Funny, after I wrote my previous comment I went and searched out the video of the Palestinian getting shot. I don’t want to write falsehoods. It appears that the video might not be legitimate, but may be legitimate also. Who knows?

    I hope it isn’t a lie. I hate lies. I felt sorry for the Palestinian just as much as I felt sorry for the Israeli who might have shot him. Reminds me of American kids going off to fight in wars they know nothing about, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

    You ever notice that most people in most countries are anti-war but the governments who think they are above the people are pro-war? One day I hope that people will truly represent themselves in their national governments, that their needs will be the only agenda, and that they treat neighbor nation as if it was their own nation.

  43. Reine Gnade says:

    Man will not bow down before the LORD, if he is lacking in confidence in Him.

    Bowing down before God is a gift of God. No one can do this unless God grants them the capacity to do this.

  44. MichaelFree says:


    Simple question, do you think Jesus is coming back and all those that will not bow down before him won’t be here on Earth anymore?

  45. Reine Gnade says:

    The risen Lord is coming back to earth soon and unbelievers will still be living here.
    They will still be living lives that fail to glorify Him.
    God has to bless man with trust before he can truly love Him, because
    faith works through love.

  46. Reine Gnade says:

    Michael, your great need is to be taught by God that He is Person. Find a concordance and make a study of the word person or man pertaining to the Son of God.

  47. MichaelFree says:


    You said “The risen Lord is coming back to earth soon and unbelievers will still be living here. They will still be living lives that fail to glorify Him”.

    My reply is that Jesus said to call him friend, not Lord, and he said that he is not in between us and God, that we have a direct relationship with God, and that he Jesus need not pray for us.

    You said “God has to bless man with trust before he can truly love Him, because
    faith works through love”.

    My reply is that I find it hard to trust that which I am only guessing about.

    You said “Michael, your great need is to be taught by God that He is Person. Find a concordance and make a study of the word person or man pertaining to the Son of God”.

    My reply is that Jesus said that God is a Spirit, not a person.

    The book is up to the reader to discern.

    I’m going away now. I won’t be back here anymore.

    I find no joy in religion. I only find joy in being a good person to everyone around me and to everything around me, and recognizing goodness in all who do it.

  48. MichaelFree says:

    I apologize for saying that I was done here because I have a few more parting words.

    To say that men and women are unequal is evil.
    To say that one peaceful religion is superior to other peaceful religions is evil.
    To say that atheists are not equal to religious people is evil.
    To say that one race of people is superior to other races of people is evil.
    To say that one nation is superior to other nations is evil.
    To say that heterosexuals and homosexuals are unequal is evil.

    To threaten damnation upon others for not accepting your damning religion is evil.

    There is no getting around the truth and I don’t care what any religion or even any deity has to say about it, for I know people of all these groups personally, and they are mostly good people who I would feel ashamed in front of if I told them they were damned, for it would be me that would be sick, not them.

    Take that to the bank ye who separate the righteous from the righteous and call it righteous, for ye are liars, thieves, and robbers, the very seed of all unrighteousness.

    The truth is right before your own two eyes.

  49. MichaelFree says:

    And I don’t condemn religions at all, even the divisive ones. You mind your business and I’ll mind mine. What I do condemn is lying and trespassing against person or property. If anyone thinks that it is holy to lie or trespass against person or property of those who are not their faith, and then does so, then they are just plain sick in the head and need to be locked up and given some love so that they might know what it means to have compassion and not a sacrifice. .

    But to teach your children division and to know that they are going to be divisive, what a shame and a disservice, for how will they ever come to know the truth…

  50. MichaelFree says:

    In my previous comment I said that people need to be locked up but this needs to be clarified:

    “Respond to lies and trespasses in proportion to the lie or the trespass, not with vengeance, but rather with truth, restraint, and compassion”.

  51. Reine Gnade says:

    Restraint and compassion are attributes of love that God, who is love, has to bless us with.

  52. Reine Gnade says:

    You choose not to condemn religions. God can teach
    you that He speaks up against false religions and false

  53. Reine Gnade says:

    Michael, your own words convict you when you write
    that you don’t care what any deity says about truth. You are
    not authoritative! Your thinking is false as is the thinking of Richard and Rose
    because you are all leaning on your own understanding.

  54. MichaelFree says:

    Jeremiah 31: 31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    “I will put my law within them”: TREAT OTHER PEOPLE THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.


    The Spirit of Truth is shown in everyone who helps others who are in need, who speaks the truth, and who respects other people and their belongings. EVERYONE.

    There is only righteousness and unrighteousness. When someone prays to the God of righteousness, seeking righteousness, whatever their religion, THEY ARE PRAYING TO GOD. Access to God is not a competition of religions.

    And these words will come to pass and many of them that have been deceived by the unrighteous ones will mourn, ask for forgiveness, and be forgiven. The Kings and the mighty will be lifted from their seats.

    The Elijah to come will divide the righteous from the unrighteous and have mercy on both.

  55. MichaelFree says:

    I apologize again for all of my comments here on this website.

    I don’t know about religious and bible stuff so I don’t agree or disagree to anything at all regarding them.

  56. Reine Gnade says:

    God will not have mercy on the unsaved. He will punish them.

  57. MichaelFree says:


    There is only good and bad. Good and evil. Righteousness and unrighteousness. When you see people being righteous and you assign unrighteousness to them because of their belief system, their belief system that affects you in no way whatsoever, it is you that is being unrighteous. For all you know that person that you called unrighteous, their righteousness might just put yours to shame. This is what truth does to you.

    This is the Holy Spirit. Yahweh in the Garden is always righteous. Jesus’ Kingdom of God is always righteous. If you condemn someone who is more righteous than you are then who are you to go to heaven with that mindset? Why don’t you see the inherent dignity in all people regardless of the things they do that don’t harm anyone in any way? See their peace, their lives, and their humanity. I wouldn’t let a book take that away from me. Not a pleasant experience.

  58. Reine Gnade says:

    Dear readers, the only true perspective to “look” at life is from the perspective of the God of the holy Bible.

    He knows the condition of the human heart and He teaches that it is deceitful above all things.

    Satan is a deceiver and he, as the god of this world, is being worshipped by most of the people of the world.

    He has deceived multitudes into thinking that the true God, the God of the Bible, is unloving!

    Likewise he has deceived multitudes, so that they now happily worship false gods like the quranic god, Allah. All such people who do such things are enslaved.

    They don’t have rightstanding with the God of the Bible!

    They don’t understand Him and they are separated from Him!

    They are children of disobedience, even though they sometimes do “good” acts.

    The world is plunging into the worst war, by far, of all time.

    Multitudes of people are so brainwashed that they even think the world is a peaceful place!

    In whom can sinful man find peace? He needs to turn to Christ! He is their only hope!

    He is not found in the Quran. He is not Isa, the worshipper of the quranic god Allah.

    Go to the Bible and find the only true Savior!

  59. MichaelFree says:


    I understand that it how you see it.

    My perspective is too see righteousness and dignity in all people. My perspective is to love creation and to love my fellow human beings as if they were myself. I see all of us as equal. I think people have an inherent dignity that ties us to the creator. If we deny other people that inherent dignity because of their religion then we are blinded by our beliefs so much that we don’t recognize righteous people when we see them. There are over a billion Muslims. How many of them are violent? Such a miniscule percentile that it is ridiculous to claim it’s a violent religion. To claim they are enslaved is astounding seeing that they don’t feel that way. To deny a Muslim child who grows up to be a Muslim citizen of some country their salvation is ridiculous and not a religion I want to follow. You see, I see their humanity today. Their salvation is today, and all days before, and tomorrow, and all days hereafter. Same as everyone else. We are judged on our words and on our deeds. The smiling, joyous, people helping, truth telling, never trespassing Muslim is saved. There is only righteousness and unrighteousness and righteousness will one day prevail.

  60. Reine Gnade says:

    Michael, you don’t unerstand! You are as yet unwilling to wholeheartedly look to the God of the Bible.
    He desires you to submit your will to Him. Are you praying for this to happen?

  61. Reine Gnade says:

    Michael, you don’t yet understand, for you are as yet unwilling to wholeheartedly look to the God of the Bible as the authoritative teacher.
    He desires for you to submit your will to Him. Are you praying for this to happen?

  62. MichaelFree says:


    The Jew’s actions in Numbers 31 are reflected by the actions of ISIS in Iraq and Syria right now. Most of the same atrocities are taking place.

    Would you say that the deeds of ISIS are of a good or a bad spirit?

    Your answer to that should convict the Jews in Numbers 31 also, but you probably won’t be having it, because you submit your will and inherent righteousness to the usurper.

    If I told you my whole journey, many things you wouldn’t believe, and that is fine.

    Do you remember when Jesus was tempted with bowing to the devil by being promised all the Kingdoms of the world if he would just bow? Isn’t that exactly what many millions of Christians do now, except they bow to Jesus (and many times forget all about God, so they just pray to Jesus alone)? You are telling me that if I don’t bow to deity that I will have no place in the world to come, that all the Kingdom will be yours and yours alone (your ilk)! You bow to an inhumane deity who kills all who aren’t of a certain faith, even those who are of the Jewish faith, whose faith you defile and usurp in your pursuit of Jesus at all cost, even at the cost of the lives of Jews who follow the Ten Commandments. Even the Jews don’t exclude righteous Gentiles from the world to come, but your Jesus doesn’t care about righteousness, but rather only cares about religion, which is filthy and of the wicked one. Yet the Jesus I found is righteous, but if he came again, many Christians would tell him he is a false prophet or the antichrist, because he would call for peace and put cornmeal between the captives and the wicked ones, daring anyone to cross it without the others consent. He would tell many millions of Christians to depart from him because he knew them not. And many millions would look right back at him and say “we knew you not also”, and they’d also be justified. And that’s the problem with parables: they suck.

    Any unrighteous person can point to the Bible and make it speak to justify their unrighteousness. No unrighteousness person can point to righteousness and make it speak to justify their unrighteousness.


  63. Reine Gnade says:

    Michael, your basic problem is no small one, because you regard the God of the Bible as inhumane!

    You boast a lot yet in all your boasting you don’t understand that the God of the Bible is sinless!

    You don’t understand that He is love. You misunderstand Biblical history and history!

    You make the most “silly” statement that parables suck!

    How can you claim to love the true Savior when you claim His words, His parables, suck?

    You don’t realize that the very deity you accuse of being inhumane is the Son of God.

    Stop being a hypocrite and stop your endless boasting about how “loving and righteous” you are.

    In my opinion you are a sinner in need of God’s gift of salvation.

    Repent and let the author of the Bible teach you that the Giver of life isn’t inhumane and that His name is worthy to be hallowed.

  64. MichaelFree says:


    Listen Reine, you can have your Jesus that destroys all that is not “Christian”, and I’ll have my idea of Jesus that doesn’t destroy all that is not “Christian”, but rather sees the goodness and dignity in people of all religions.

    If you deny other people’s righteousness simply because they are not “Christian” then you deny the Holy Spirit. I believe you’ve let the book usurp your inherent humanity, and this is not surprising, as this is the curse of the Bible, both the new and the old testaments. You see, the Bible injects an invisible third party in between human beings interactions here on Earth. This third party is given the power to usurp basic human decency towards one another in favor of a false righteousness, and billions give their energy to it. Yet all along, if we had looked inside of ourselves and realized how we want to be treated by other people, and then realized that other people want to be treated the exact same way, then our inherent humanity towards one another could not be usurped, not by a book, not by an invisible deity, not by an actual deity, not by anyone except by our own choices, Love and truth are not a deity, they are a force that is eternal and unchanging. Many would argue that religion does not usurp our basic humanity because it is still up to humanity to choose to be inhumane, but I don’t buy that. You see, injecting the invisible third party at the point of eternal damnation is very powerful, a curse, so much so that otherwise good people can very easily be made to go against their own naturally good instincts and their own natural love of humanity in order to please the usurping invisible deity. So they kill babies and call it righteous.

    Call my beliefs blasphemy and I’ll call yours the same. I live in America, the home of the brave and the land of the free (we shall be truly free once again). My home is my castle. Surrounding my home is a spiritual line of cornmeal. This is my land: “That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth”. With all my heart, with all my soul, and with all my mind, I love creation and the eternally righteous creative principle righteousness itself, I love love and I love truth, and I love my neighbor as myself.

    ALL ARE ONE. Righteousness is only righteous continually. Whatever name one gives righteousness righteousness will not be fooled, because righteousness knows your heart. Whoever prays to righteousness, giving it whatever name, prays to the creator. Try to steal this from people of other religions and call it your own, saying that they are not righteous even though they pray to righteousness, and you will be rebuked. THOU SHALT NOT STEAL – The Creator of the Universe.

    It’s really as simple as that.

  65. Reine Gnade says:

    Michael, you teach that love and truth is not a deity. That is a lie!

    That is the opposite of what the God of the Bible teaches. He teaches that He is love and Christ teaches He is the truth!

    Christ was a person, not a force.
    And yes His attributes are eternal and unchanging because He is eternal and unchanging!

    God, the Creator, who is loving and righteous longs to rescue sinners!

    Ecclesiastes 7:20 witnesses against what you teach as does Romans 3:10!

    Both the Old and New Testament reveal that your teaching is false!

    Romans 3:10-11
    “None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.

  66. MichaelFree says:


    Christ was a person, not a Spirit, but the Spirit was in him, because he was filled with the Holy Spirit of God since birth, but we have to be born again. Christ had his own mind, which is why he spoke to God when he prayed. God does not speak to God. The Son of God speaks to God. The Son of God has a soul that went to Heaven.

    I worship no deity, but I do praise the Truth and praise Love and believe that Heaven is real and that the power there is only righteous and for all people. And I know there is a supernatural intelligence, that is a deity in the sense of being an intelligent being, but to see only glimpses of the intelligence is not enough to form an opinion as to its ultimate nature. What if I assign unrighteousness to a wholly righteous deity or believe that way just because it says so in some book? It’s not good to do that in my opinion because you might be asserting things that are false and assigning those lies to an actual deity that really exists. Then the deity lets you know that all people all created equal.

    There is only the good spirit and the bad spirit.

    The way we express the spirit is through our words and through our deeds.

    Choosing to help people in need, seeing their dignity and their humanity, and loving them, is doing so in the Spirit of God.

    Choosing to tell the truth and choosing not to lie is doing so in the Spirit of God.

    Choosing to respect other people and their property as opposed to laying our hands on other people or their property without their consent, is choosing to do so in the Spirit of God.

    If we deny anyone in the world who does these good things by trying to take away the Spirit of God that they did them in then we are denying the Spirit of God itself and how it manifests in our existence here in Creation.

    These very things are done in a a Spirit. When I say “laying hands on other people or their property without their consent”, that means don’t steal from them, don’t assault them, don’t rob them, don’t rape them, and don’t murder them. This is what I mean. When we lie we are trespassing against other people and their property also, for the liar tricks someone with their lies. Can you see how a person out to murder other people does so in the most evil spirit imaginable? Can you see how a person out to help other people in need does so in the most good spirit imaginable? We say and do things in the purest of Spirit. It is the way that Spirit is manifested in Creation. Spirit is what the Garden of Eden was governed by, for truth came looking for Adam and Eve after they had trespassed against God’s property, eating of a Tree he told them didn’t belong to them. These things are done in Spirit. When we ask for forgiveness and come back to truth and follow the way of truth, and love doing so, knowing what it means, and also how good it feels, and seeing it in everyone around us, then we see Spirit, and that Spirit is love.

    You will find that Jesus never sinned in word nor deed. Not once. He always helped people in need, he always spoke the truth, and he never laid his hands on other people or their property without their consent. He was perfect. I believe he was probably here in the flesh. And I suspect he might be back again in the flesh, for he left a folded handkerchief in the sepulcher which was a physical handkerchief, where a folded handkerchief means “he (flesh in my interpretation) will be back”.

    But I tell you the Jesus I found in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John is not a condemner of those that say and do good things for they say and do those good things in the Spirit of God. God takes what’s due God. The Jesus I found tells the parable of the “The Good Samaritan” and means it. What was the Good Samaritan judged good on Reine? His words and his deeds. He helped someone in need. I’m assuming he spoke the truth when he told the inn keeper he’d pay him back anything that the inn keeper paid extra out of his own pocket to help care for the man who had been robbed, and in this way he did not trespass against anyone or their property (the inn keepers own personal space, property, or money). The Good Samaritan did “The Kingdom Rules” just like Jesus did throughout the Gospels.

    The whole Gospels is Spirit of word and Spirit of deed. If we deny that our every word and every deed is Spirit then we are denying the Spirit itself. If one is pressed to tell a lie but tells the truth instead, they do so in the Spirit of Truth. Don’t deny this. Don’t deny anyone in the world this, don’t deny them what’s theirs, don’t deny God being present with them also. The Spirit of Truth is the Spirit of God. When a Buddhist sits there bothering no one he does the Kingdom Rules so if you deny him his salvation in your beliefs what must be going through your head when you see a Buddhist in real life on the street? How do you feel about them? I see their inherent dignity and their humanity and I smile and that is all I see. If I interact with them I can tell if they are a generally good person or maybe a bad person. These things are all Spirit. Good people are God’s people for we do our goodness in the Spirit of God.

    That’s what I got from Jesus in the Gospels. When two strangers meet what are the rules? They don’t want the other to lie to them or trespass against their person or their property. Then everything is cool. And it’s really cool if one of them is in need and the other helps them out.

  67. MichaelFree says:


    When I say “What if I assign unrighteousness to a wholly righteous deity or believe that way just because it says so in some book?”

    If I write in a book that is supposed to be Holy Scripture, the Holy Bible in this case, that God condones killing babies, am I supposed to just believe that? Because it says so in some book? God is a real thing. Spirit is a real thing. Deity is a real thing. What if I assign baby killing to a real actual deity that abhors baby killing? This is why I don’t mess with deity. Righteousness most high is love and truth and they judge all things, even deity, for they are Spirit. See how I challenge the Bible? I give the deity the benefit of the doubt, saying I don’t know about their nature, and I have no trust in man, nor his books.

  68. Reine Gnade says:

    I appreciate you opening up about what you think, but for all your “gentle” words you are still playing the role of judge.

    When God takes life it is very “difficult” for man to understand His actions, yet don’t ever doubt Him, for He is love.

    He put those “difficult” passages in the Bible to give us a fuller picture of His sovereignty. He gives life and takes it!

    1 John 4:8

    He that loveth not, knoweth not God, for God is love.

  69. Reine Gnade says:

    The Bible is God’s book and man’s present! God’s gift is trustworthy!

  70. MichaelFree says:


    I realize my error and I would like to apologize. I apologize if I have spoken about your religion and attempted to alter it in any way. Your religion is none of my business. The Bible, both the Hebrew Scriptures and the New Testament, are none of my business. It’s not a good thing for me personally to read passages from either and attempt to refute them. I can wonder why anyone would follow them but I cannot say that the Bible is wrong.

    My religious beliefs can be summed up as so: Good thoughts, Good words, and Good deeds, and not hypocrisy. The True Self that is the same True Self that is within most people on planet Earth, so honor other people. See the dignity in all people. Righteousness most high. The power in heaven is only righteous and nothing like baby killing is ever to be attributed by me to the power in heaven.

    Again, these are my religious beliefs, and they only become religious when I say the word “heaven”. Otherwise they are of Creation and of being free from the captivity of believing and acting in unrighteous ways. “Heaven” is a religiously neutral concept and is not exclusive to any one religion. Many religions that pre-date even the Hebrew Scriptures speak about an afterlife. My goal is to go there “clear” (as clear as possible), and to be there with everyone who has ever lived and passed on, everyone, for there is no other place in the afterlife except for heaven alone.

    Again, I apologize.

    If you argue with my religious beliefs and then call them wrong, who are you to argue with my religious beliefs? I think I may have finally learned this lesson once and for all. And as long as we don’t lie to each other and we don’t lay our hands on each other or the each others property without getting consent first, I think we are doing just fine.


    Thanks Reine!

  71. MichaelFree says:


    You also may feel compelled to point out that according to your religion I am “unsaved”. I see no problem with your beliefs about me being “unsaved”, I just don’t believe them.

    Thanks again!

    Take care!

  72. Reine Gnade says:

    The God of the Bible decides who He saves.
    If anyone wholeheartdedly seeks Him, He will allow Himself to be found by them.

  73. Reine Gnade says:

    God wants you to investigate the Bible.
    He wants you to come as a student and be willing
    to listen and learn from Him!

  74. Reine Gnade says:

    Yes. God has been involved in the “taking of the life”
    of children during the flood and right throughout history.
    He is sovereign over whether a baby is born or not!

  75. Reine Gnade says:

    Michael, I don’t know whether God has saved you or not.
    But I do know that if you are patient you can fall in love the God of the holy Bible.
    My approach was to focus on Christ!
    Only after God saved me did I start to explore the very
    challenging parts of the Bible that show
    God as sovereign over life and death!

  76. bibelverse says:

    Gary, how can write that the sinless LORD is a monster? Have you ever studied the life of Christ? Do you really consider that He talked and behaved monstrously?

    Hasn’t He given ample proof that He loves children? Gary,do some Bible study and let the LORD teach you that He is loving!

  77. Richard, can’t you see that man speaks and behaves very often monstrously? Do you ever study history? Who is behind unjust killing but Satan, the Father of lies. Can’t you see that you just jump from one false conclusion to another?

    Hey there Reine,

    I know people are capable of monstrous behavior. That’s why the god they invented is such a monster. He was made in their image. If the Bible did not portray him as such, why would there be a need for a book called Is God a Moral Monster? Could you imagine someone writing a book like Is Ghandi a Moral Monster? or Is Buddha a Moral Monster?

    Why do you ignore what the Bible says about Yahweh? It says he commanded genocide, established sexism, killed people for no reason for crimes they didn’t commit, etc., etc., etc. He is truly an irrational moral monster. If you want to challenge these facts, please do so. But if all you want to do is ignore what the Bible plainly teaches, then why should anyone take you claims to believe the Bible seriously? YOu are acting like you are totally deluded. You are refusing to even answer basic questions about what the Bible actually states.

  78. Nicholas Adams says:

    God chose the path of violence as judgement for those he did not prefer due to the simple fact that violence paradoxically makes for a lot less physical, mental and emotional suffering than the alternative methods you described such as “closing their wombs” or “introducing a plague” as a plague would involve a slow, miserable death and a “closing of the wombs” would logistically make for generations worth of emotional suffering at the hands of those of whom God condemned.

    The gist of what im saying is that a physical reconquista of Israel (that HAD to involve every man, woman and child in order to not inspire any other pagan rebellion among the israelites later down the line, plus the fact that children under the age of reponsibility were to be accepted into the kingdom, as well as those of whom were otherwise benevolent to spare them the aftermath of the conflict) and a takeover of the promised land was the least “evil” method that God could have used in achieving Gods will. Yes it isnt flattering, yes its gruesome, but think about it; Would you want to live in a world full of civilizations that unironically observe child sacrifice as a way of appeasing their god(s) or one that became that sacrifice for all of our betterment until his second coming?

  79. Nicholas Adams says:

    Continued from above

    A more concise form of the point i’m trying to make is, in the event that God sees someone or somethings even an immanent worldly existence as immanently, diabolically problematic; To be of a moral standing in light of this, he would have deem fit a method that reduces the necessary suffering of the parties he deems unfit to live temporally in and up to the point to which they pass into eternity (a spiritual dimension, where they are presumably intact) in order to stand trial against God.

    Hence why God needed to have chosen violence to eliminate even the children involved, so that they can suffer less than the necessary time it takes to pass into eternity.

    To be of a moral standing after deeming a collective unto this condition however, he would also need to know empirically that every member of the collective would begin to worship the values espoused by their deceased tribe (as humans often jump to doing regardless of logic and reason; as proven by psychological concepts), Hence the need to be brought into eternity so as not to affect the lives of others still in the fallen dimension later down the line.

    One in eternity, they would either be sent into the kingdom of heaven, or (if they are a guilty adult man woman etc) be cast into the lake of fire to merely cease to exist (rather than eternally suffer). as the concept of “eternal hellfire of suffering” is actually a mis interpretation of the scriptures concerning the second death. (But thats another story)

    You may think “there’s got the be a better way to do that in the first place if Gods goal was to reduce suffering” in which I say that would not be God’s only objective, as his initial objective was for the creation (us and everything around us) to be in communion with the creator, and hence (due to the world being enveloped in Sin since the fall anyways) Would allow a degree of suffering to enable the creation (or entities of such) a perspective as to why communion (even in general) bears necessary tools to living a fruitful life, as supposed to exclusively being antisocial because the world is merely nihilistic; as through that notion we would inevitably deceive ourselves into becoming and believing.

    Due to these circumstances, every decision he must make (in all respects, and without revealing himself to the world aside from Jesus) is therefore circumstantially influenced by a decision every person makes physically, which (as history and society empirically shows) Does more to (in the long run at least) denigrate our current state of affairs rather than selflessly improve it.

    This is the same reason why hyper rationalist intellectualism such as this (as much as it tries) cannot save the world, as there is always an unseen possibility, variable etc that always makes an otherwise just act, inherently unjust in the eyes of those with limited perception (all of us), and thus become conditioned just as easily to render insignificant not only the inherent meaning, but also the qualities and values that existence and life contains.

    Hence why I believe God is much more benevolent than he isn’t. But of course, one can argue.

  80. Nicholas Adams says:

    Re worded: Would you want to live in a world full of civilizations that unironically observe child sacrifice as a way of appeasing their god(s) or one that a God made and then later became that sacrifice for all of our betterment until his second coming in spite of these circumstances?

    Re worded: Due to these circumstances, every decision God must make (in all respects, and without revealing himself to the world aside from Jesus) is expressed through his permissive will, being the functional aspect of his perfect will, by decisions every person makes, which (as history and society empirically shows) Can consequentially do more to (in the long run at least) denigrate our current state of affairs rather than selflessly improve it.

    I need to add that exodus and leviticus, though they read antagonistically read in a very inobvious yet circumstantially plausible voluntary context that is both economic, and reparative indentured servitude. God loves athiests as he does anyone else unconditionally, and death can be as temporary for anyone else as it can for Christians

  81. Nicholas Adams says:

    Re Re Worded: denigrate our current state of affairs rather than improve them through rational means, as every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

  82. Jack says:

    Very much interested in gematria in Christ jack

  83. Donald says:





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