I received this response to my post Why I Quit Christianity today:
Dear Mr. Richard,
Today, I accessed your website at biblewheel.com which is a very valuable tool for me in my study of The Scriptures and I noticed a message at the top of the page: “My Deconversion.” I clicked on the link to see what that was about and after reading your testimony, I am perplexed and felt compelled to write you this e-mail.
The people of the Most High of whom I call YHWH and Yahuwah are not expected to know everything, are not expected to have the ability to answer every question, or to understand every doctrine.
When there is something that the people of Yahuwah do not understand, we are to ask for understanding, then if we still do not receive understanding, know this:
1. The Doctrine Of Hell
Wicked mankind will be cast into the lake of fire for their sin, but wicked mankind will not receive eternal life in the lake of fire. To say that wicked mankind will burn forever in a hell, is saying they will receive eternal life, but in hell. Wicked mankind will not get a drop of eternal life, not even in a hell as they call it. Wicked mankind will receive “permanent death” in the lake of fire and will never exist again. Notice that in Revelation 20:14 the so called hell is cast into the lake of fire. Hell is not the final punishment of wicked mankind. The lake of fire is the final destination of the wicked.
2. The Bible contains many errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God.
1 Corinthians 13:12 “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”
The people of Yahuwah are not expected to know everything for that would make us Yahuwah.
Romans 11:33 “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of Yahuwah! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!”
Therefore, when there is something that the people of Yahuwah don’t understand, it is best to confess we don’t understand and put it on the back burner. We need to confess that we don’t know the answer and leave it at that because Yahuwah is much brainier than human beings are.
3. God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers.
James 4:3 “Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.” (could this be the problem)
2 Corinthians 12:8-9 “For this thing I besought the Master thrice, that it might depart from me.” “And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Mashiyach may rest upon me.” (or perhaps this is the problem)
1 Corinthians 10:13 ‘There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but Yahuwah is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”
Yahuwah will test His people or allow them to be tested. The “way of escape” may not be what we as human beings want. The “way of escape” may even be death for some of the people of Yahuwah.”
Simply felt moved to testify.
Hope this brings some understanding.
Eve
I am very glad that Eve responded, and hope many other believers will follow suit. Her attempts to answer my points really help clarify and confirm my reasons for quitting Christianity.
The first thing to note is that she seems to be following a very minor variation of Christianity. She rejects the traditional Doctrine of Hell in favor of Annihilationism and also changes the Bible by inserting the invented name “Yahuwah” in place of “God” (Greek: Theos) in Romans 11:33 and 1 Corinthians 10:13. There is no justification for changing the Bible like this. And if the New Testament is wrong on this point, where else is it in error? How could anyone have any confidence in a book that could not even get the name of it’s God correct for two thousand years?
Eve appears to be a follower the Sacred Name Movement which teaches both Annihilationism and the insertion of Yahuwah into the New Testament, as well as a host of other obscure doctrines like Sabbath keeping. It is a splinter group off the Church of God (Seventh Day) which itself split off from the followers of failed doomsday prophet William Miller who founded the Seventh Day Adventists which is famous for producing David Koresh’s cult of The Branch Davidians. And all these groups split off from the Protestants who split from the Catholics who split from the Greek Orthodox over an obscure interpretation of the Trinity (amongst other things). This exemplifies the utter insanity of religion in general and apocalyptic Christianity in particular. It is absurd to think that any God would judge people according to which of these confused and unfounded dogmas they choose to believe! All these splinters of splinters show how there is no single religion properly called “Christianity” – in reality there are many Christianities based on a broad range of overlapping but incoherent interpretations of the Bible. This is the real reason I quit “Christianity” – there is no such thing!
Folks who call themselves “Christian” reject every other version of their religion. Evangelicals reject Mormonism, and the founder of Mormonism said that God commissioned him to restore true Christianity because every form of Christianity had become corrupt. And the Reformers declared the Roman Catholic Church to be a system of the Antichrist, and identified the Pope as the very Antichrist himself in the Westminster Confession of Faith. And the Jehovah’s Witnesses think they are the true church, and many Seventh Day Adventists believe that going to church on Sunday is the Mark of the Beast! There is no end to the insanity spawned by teaching people that mere belief in unfounded dogmas is a virtue and that doubt is the ultimate vice. So when I say that I reject “Christianity” I am not rejecting any one version – I am rejecting everything that falls under the rubric of “Christianity.” And the amazing thing is that Christians tend to agree with me in as much as they too reject all the other versions that differ from their own. It’s like atheism. Christians and atheists agree that all other gods are false. They differ only concerning the one god believed by the Christian.
Now on to her specific points:
1) The Doctrine of Hell
I agree that the doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell is not particularly well-founded in the Bible, though there are a number of verses that can be used to support it. Unfortunately, this has not stopped it from being a dominant doctrine in historical Christianity. If it is false then God has failed to lead the vast majority of his people into truth and I can have no reason to have any confidence in any version of it. If it is true, then Christianity is to be rejected. In either case, I see no reason to believe in that the Bible is a reliable guide, or that there is any truth to the god it proclaims.
2. The Bible contains many errors, contradictions, logical absurdities, and moral abominations attributed to God.
The problem is not that we see through a glass darkly. The problem is that we see the errors, absurdities, and moral abominations all too clearly! Eve gave no rational response to the many problems in the Bible.
3. God does not, as a general rule, answer prayers.
No evidence was given to contradict this fact. Mere assertions based on quotations from the Bible mean nothing, especially when the contradict observed reality.
So that’s it. I really hope other Christians will try to refute the reasons I gave for quitting Christianity. I’ve been discussing this on my forum with many Christians for months and not one has come close to presenting any real challenge to the reasons I gave.
1. Hell is a real place where those who do not trust in Jesus will be separated from him and tormented for eternity for believing the lies of Satan and his demons and worshipping false gods or anything but the One True God.
2. The Bible DOES NOT contain errors: it is the Word of God.
3. God has answered my own personal prayers on a consistent basis. I have asked, and he has given.
There is a lot that I do not know, but these three points are easily refuted. I hope that your eyes will be opened and God will reveal Himself to you once more. At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow… whether you believe in Him or not. Believing in Him, trusting Him to save your soul, is more about loving Him than any thing else. If you love Him, you will want to spend time with Him, talk to Him, be with Him. He is your Creator, and the Potter has power over you, the clay, to make you any size, any shape, any color, for any use. He can mend broken vessels to be used for Him.
My doubt is that He is finished using you. He created you for His purposes, though, so He can use you however He wants.
Calling Our Father Yahweh, Adonai, Jehovah…there are so many names in so many languages. Yeshua, the Hebrew name for Jesus, was one I never heard of until the past few years. Does it matter? I don’t know. I only know that He is the Holy One who has always been, the great I AM. How can you not sing praises to Him who loves you so much that He gave you Jesus, who went through physical agony and torment of soul to spare you eternal damnation without God?
May He have mercy on you, and give you His peace.
Cathy
Hi Cathy,
1. Why would God eternally torment someone merely for failing to “believe in Jesus”? Why is my opinion about the truth or falsehood of stories found in an ancient religious text the standard by which God determines my eternal fate? I just don’t get it.
2. How old was Jehoiachim when he began to reign? Compare 2 Kings 24:8 with 2 Chronicles 36:9.
3. Most Christians and Muslims believe God has answered their prayers but if you think carefully about it you will see that those beliefs have no justification. There is no objectively verifiable evidence that God answered any prayers. For example, have you ever seen Benny Hinns $alvation and Healing Carnival? Thousands of people have stood on his stage to claim God healed them. Hank Hanegraaff asked Benny for his three best confirmed miracles. Not one could be verified. It’s all in your imagination – and that can be verified!
How can I praise a God who chose to created a universe that had a hell in which he would torment sinners forever merely because they didn’t believe in Jesus? There are a thousand religions to choose from. How is anyone supposed to know which one is correct, if any? The Gospel is entirely unjust, and lacking in mercy too because it is designed to ensure an infinite amount of suffering. That sounds pretty wicked to me.
All the best,
Richard
I asked you Richard; If God gave you a physical and a Spiritual life, and decides to terminate your physical life and moves you on to your eternal spiritual life, Where’s the immorality? Where is the murder?
Every time you claim that God watches and does nothing, be reminded that time is a perception in our small brains. Time does not exist.
One day before the Lord is like a 1000 years…
If we were given a physical life, there is a Purpose, we are nobody to question the Creator.
You want arguments, I want answers. Because I see an all too perfect concept for God’s Creation, one which encompasses all aspects imaginable.
Everything our brains even begin to think, conceive, analyze, is because of God’s will.
Whether people decide to believe or not, doesn’t change a thing.
Not in the Creation and the Plan of God, it does for you as an individual.
While you accuse God of allowing children and women to die, maybe, just maybe, he already took them to his Glory (and you don’t know it), or maybe, just maybe, this is a mere perception of a reality in which you are being tested and you alone.
No one is dyeing and the Universe is so vast, that elsewhere, each of the other people you see as part of billions of humans who populate Earth, are being Tested separately.
These are just two scenarios by which God could laugh at your ignorant accusation of non-participation, guilt, murder, inconsistency, and the list goes on.
Give God some credit, after all, your brain does not have the capacity to explain simple things like Infinite, Perfection, Nothing, Eternity, and so on.
You are sadly playing the equivalent role of a cartoon character wanting to fight the Cartoonist. Our choice is reduced to a mere election over good and evil.
We weren’t placed on this World to judge, criticize, question, doubt, God.
Hi again Victor,
I answered in my previous post to you. Please read it. I have not said that God taking a life is immoral.
The problem is not with “God” per se. The problem is what the Bible says about God. If the God of the Bible is the true God, why did he choose to impersonate a brutal Bronze age tribal war god? And given that he chose to act that way, why should anyone believe in him? What kind of game is he playing? He’s nothing like the “Perfection” of which you speak. On the contrary, he seems frankly insane. What rational being would inflict a three year famine on a whole nation of his people without even bothering to tell them why? And what rational being would inflict that punishment for the “crimes” of a previous king long dead? And what rational being would refuse to lift the famine until seven sons of the former king were murdered and hung up before him for months? Can you understand why such a god would seem insane to any sane person?
If we can’t judge God, then we can’t judge that he is good or righteous. That’s just the way the game works.
And if we can’t criticize, question, or doubt, then we can’t think. Is that what God want’s? Mindless zombies? Why then did he give us brains?
All the best,
Richard
read origen, he answers all 3 of those concerns. don’t be like the large crowd that says origen was a heretic, people who say that do not even know what origen was saying half the time. he is one of the most slandered church fathers that there is, and for good reason. the world hates him. I beg of you study origen and you will have your answers.
Dear Richard,
I don’t know why but I keep stumbling onto your site even though I am not looking for anything on it. But perhaps I can tell you my answers to your questions. I believe God has shown me certain truths:
(1) The scriptures are simply human writings, which reveal what their authors believed. They contain errors, but also contain a clear testimony of God and his ways and laws.
(2) The creation bears witness to the laws he set over them, thus declaring his glory and the works of his hands. For the lawmaker is God.
(3) God wrote his laws in our hearts, thus testifying the same laws as he wrote on the tablets of stone that he gave to Moses, which are the ten commandments.
(4) The laws of God are for our good, and only become a standard for his judgement to those who are wicked and despise them. But the righteous love his laws and keep them.
(5) God gives every one such a choice, to either accept or reject his goodness, and he will give to them as they choose. God guides the righteous, but the wicked will receive their own evil.
(6) Each one is fully responsible for his sin, but God will forgive all who do not want to sin, and God will enable those who truly want to live righteously to live righteously.
(7) Man is dust and will return to dust and remain as dust until God raises all the dead, and then the righteous will enter into life but the wicked will enter into shame.
If you would like to discuss anything with me, just email me and I would be glad to. =)
Peace to you,
David
Hi David,
Thanks for taking time to write. I have answered your post in a new article on my home page here.
We can continue the conversation there.
All the best,
Richard
Richard apparently you are having a good time shooting down
adolesent Christians with the mediocre knowledge you have of the Bible and what it says. On reading your posts for clarafication on various points I have found none to be a problem answering. You seem to be a seed on stoney ground throwing red herrings out there for your own enjoyment and I doubt you ever were a true Christian. Aparently you thought Christianity would get you everything you wanted instead of costing everything you have. You have no intention of paying the price of suffering nor do you understand it. Obviously Christianity has scared and confused you and it is not what you thought it was. You are lacking both Faith and Courage. Christianity is NOT for sissies or quitters and it takes years of dilligent study to get all the understanding that you lack. If you ARE sincere I will be glad to help you remove your doubts.
Hi Bill,
I am completely sincere. I am fully committed to the truth and would be delighted if you could find any error in anything I have written. I have nothing to lose but the errors I may hold.
I’d be delighted to discuss anything with you, but I wonder if you are capable of having a rational conversation. Don’t you think your comments were just a little rude and presumptuous? I mean, you don’t know me and nothing I’ve written indicates that anything in Christianity “scared” me. And I never thought that anyone is supposed to “get everything” they wanted. And my knowledge of the Bible is anything but “mediocre.” I could go on, but since you felt free to spew such baseless ad hominem in your introductory comments, which are entirely contrary to the most basic teachings of the Bible, I suspect there may be no way to help you see your errors.
But don’t worry, you didn’t upset me. I’d be most delighted if you would like to discuss things with me to show me the “errors” of my ways.
All the best,
Richard
you’re another person who is only physical
Not true. I am not a metaphysical materialist. I don’t know the nature of ultimate reality. I am open to the idea that reality could be grounded in Spirit or Cosmic Mind. On the other hand, there is much evidence that consciousness is a product of the brain. The real issue is substance dualism – the idea that there is a fundamental duality of Matter/Mind or Matter/Spirit. I think it more likely that ultimate reality is monistic (one substance). If we identify the primitive concept of physics (energy) with the primitive concept of consciousness, then we could understand ultimate reality as consciousness, and material reality as an “object of consciousness” that is itself grounded in consciousness. But that’s all speculation. No one has any certain knowledge about such things, so I am not committed to any answer at this time.
Hi Richard,
I am not writing to try to change your mind, in fact, I totally agree with you. I too, have left Christianity, (the religious sector) but I do believe in a Higher Power. I only came to this realization and feeling after studying these past four years the Bible receiving my doctorate in Theology. During my studies I found a lot of Biblical similarities to other stories, mainly Egyptian. I have found several contradictions throughout the Bible. I have also noticed that the majority of Christians aren’t really Christians rather they live according to what Paul says…the majority of Christians quote scriptures, (mainly from Paul letters) but few of them have actually read and studied the entire Bible and fail to give a person concrete answers based on their knowledge, which always shows their lack of knowledge.
We have chosen to think. Thinking is not a part of Christianity and the like, rather the Bible says so and thus it is so… After studying the foundation behind Christianity, and the knowledge behind who King James really was, and the so-called name YHWH, (which puts the Creator on the same level as us, by giving Him a made up name, like Joe, Jim, Sam, etc.) if Christians would just think, learn, read and study, they would probably have a different perspective as you and I have come to have. It amazes me how Christians overlook the fact that God said something different to every author of the Bible, and Paul’s letters contradict themselves.
Anyway, I could go on and on, with facts, scriptures and history but it’s simply not enough room here. Continue in your spiritual walk which is probably more in line with the most High and Jesus’ teachings, than most Christians walk and than most Christians would admit. Thank you for your honest posting. There are a lot of us striving toward a spiritual walk rather than a religious walk ran by man, money, and hypocrisy.
Hi IrisRose,
I really appreciate your well-informed comments, and especially your open-minded attitude. I look forward to any insights you feel inspired to share.
All the best,
Richard
Richard ,
Certainly a compelling, insightful and somewhat sad (to me) story that you have written about and shared.
My story is one of demon deliverance, physical healing and God. Not necessarily in that order of significance-lol.
I have seen answers to prayers, some are instant as in the area of physical healing for others (about 140 in 2.5 yrs), other prayers are literally decades later.
My wife and 2 sons (age 21&17) visited Seattle for 3 days this last summer for a wedding of their daughter, and then we traveled the West Coast for 7 days.
I could put you in touch with our good friends in Montserrat,West Indies David&Clover Lea, that I am somewhat confidant share more in common with your ‘walk’ than myself, and perhaps could shine some ‘light’ on your somewhat recent departure from Christianity.
Blessings (really) and love to you-Rich Piepho
Hi Richard P,
The thing about “fulfilled prayers” is that you can’t tell the difference between a random event that happened to fulfill what you prayed and an action by an invisible god. This should be pretty obvious since people who believe in different gods think their own gods have answered their prayers. To me, the real issue is if there is any god that could actually be trusted to do anything for anyone in any given situation. The answer is obviously NO as everyone knows. I discuss this in my article Is God Trustworth? The Root of Religious Delusiona. Please comment on that thread if you want to discuss it. Or you could sign up on the forum if you want a more in-depth discussion.
It’s hard for me to imagine any more “light” could help with my conclusions about Christianity, since it is the light of truth that finally freed me from it. But I’m always open to new ideas, so please don’t hesitate to challenge any of my conclusions.
All the best,
Richard M
Good evening IrisRose!
I study the Holy Bible in order to allow My Creator to teach me!
I pray to Him to teach and transform me in His own timing.
The journey from being selfish to becoming more selfless is very challenging, but because the Son of Man was selfless and He has overcome the world when we trust in His perfect atoning sacrifice and His resurrection we find that Our Father blesses us with a deep, deep desire to trust and obey Him.
Richard,
The thing about “fulfilled prayers” is that you can often tell the difference between a random event that happened to fulfill what you prayed for and an action by an invisible God.
For example, if I pray to hallow God’s name as I am encouraged to do in Mathew 6:9, then if my ability to this increases then I am justified to ascribe this miraculous change to My Creator, for random events can’t transform our heart in this manner.
Random events can’t bless us with the gift of new life, yet Our Creator can use them to draw us to Him, but only the Creator Himself can bless us with a steadfast love for Him. Yes Richard, someone who is a true believer can observe when their prayer is answered for a closer relationship with Their Father in heaven as God always provides proof when He blesses us and a good place to look is Our transformed character. A good place to look is an increased desire to trust and obey Him.
May your interest in trusting and obeying the words of Your Creator grow in 2017!