Rabbi Tovia Singer relates Zechariah 12:10 to the current events in the Middle East
From here:
https://youtu.be/LoY0VOoCe78?si=5N2jxGH0je4yB9lw&t=355
he says:
"The nation will turn to me because of those who are killed, who are stabbed"
But ain't that a corrupt translation?
Hebrew וְהִבִּ֥יטוּ אֵלַ֖י אֵ֣ת אֲשֶׁר־דָּקָ֑רוּ
All Jewish translations do have it that way
https://www.sefaria.org/Zechariah.12.10 ... s&lang2=en
But Christian translations have it different:
https://biblehub.com/zechariah/12-10.htm
"They will look on me, the one they have pierced"
Inspired of course by John 19:37,
And, as another Scripture says: “They will look on the One they have pierced.”
Zechariah 12:10
-
Geert van den Bos
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:01 am
Zechariah 12:10
Last edited by Geert van den Bos on Sun Mar 01, 2026 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Geert van den Bos
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:01 am
Re: Zechariah 12:10
Dan Bergman bases his contention on the Christian interpretation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6z7JMvHiIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6z7JMvHiIs
-
Geert van den Bos
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:01 am
Re: Zechariah 12:10
Septuagint has
καὶ ἐκχεῶ ἐπὶ τὸν οἶκον Δαυιδ καὶ ἐπὶ τοὺς κατοικοῦντας Ιερουσαλημ πνεῦμα χάριτος καὶ οἰκτιρμοῦ καὶ ἐπιβλέψονται πρός με ἀνθ᾽ ὧν κατωρχήσαντο καὶ κόψονται ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸν κοπετὸν ὡς ἐπ᾽ ἀγαπητὸν καὶ ὀδυνηθήσονται ὀδύνην ὡς ἐπὶ πρωτοτόκῳ
Grok:
Here is a direct, fairly literal English translation of the Greek text you provided from the Septuagint (LXX) version of Zechariah 12:10:καὶ ἐκχεῶ ἐπὶ τὸν οἶκον Δαυιδ καὶ ἐπὶ τοὺς κατοικοῦντας Ιερουσαλημ πνεῦμα χάριτος καὶ οἰκτιρμοῦ καὶ ἐπιβλέψονται πρός με ἀνθ᾽ ὧν κατωρχήσαντο καὶ κόψονται ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸν κοπετὸν ὡς ἐπ᾽ ἀγαπητὸν καὶ ὀδυνηθήσονται ὀδύνην ὡς ἐπὶ πρωτοτόκῳ
Translation:"And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and of compassion/mercy, and they will look toward me because/on account of the fact that they have mocked/danced triumphantly [over me]/treated [me] despitefully, and they will mourn/lament over him with mourning as over a beloved one, and they will be in pain/grieve with grief as over a firstborn."A slightly smoother, commonly cited rendering (closely following Brenton's classic 19th-century English translation of the LXX, with minor adjustments for clarity) is:"And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and compassion: and they shall look upon me, because they have mocked [me], and they shall make lamentation for him, as for a beloved, and they shall grieve intensely, as for a firstborn."Key translation notesπνεῦμα χάριτος καὶ οἰκτιρμοῦ — "spirit of grace and compassion/mercy/pity" (οἰκτιρμός often carries the sense of deep pity or tender mercies).
ἐπιβλέψονται πρός με — "they will look toward/upon me" (with ἐπιβλέπω implying attentive or focused looking).
ἀνθ᾽ ὧν κατωρχήσαντο — "because/on account of the fact that they have mocked/taunted/danced mockingly [over me]". The verb κατωρχήσαντο (from κατορχέομαι) literally means something like "danced in triumph over" or "derisively danced before", and came to mean "mocked", "reproached", "treated despitefully", or "insulted/taunted". This differs notably from the Hebrew Masoretic Text's "pierced" (דָּקָרוּ), which the LXX translator rendered interpretively rather than literally.
κόψονται ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸν — "they will mourn/lament over him" (the shift from "me" to "him" is abrupt in the Greek as well, and has been the subject of much theological discussion).
ὡς ἐπ᾽ ἀγαπητὸν … ὡς ἐπὶ πρωτοτόκῳ — "as over a beloved one … as over a firstborn" (intense, personal grief, like for an only or most cherished child).
This LXX reading is distinct from the Hebrew text underlying most modern English Bibles (e.g., "look on me whom they have pierced"), and the New Testament (John 19:37) follows a version closer to the Hebrew or a revision like Theodotion's Greek rather than the standard Old Greek LXX here.
καὶ ἐκχεῶ ἐπὶ τὸν οἶκον Δαυιδ καὶ ἐπὶ τοὺς κατοικοῦντας Ιερουσαλημ πνεῦμα χάριτος καὶ οἰκτιρμοῦ καὶ ἐπιβλέψονται πρός με ἀνθ᾽ ὧν κατωρχήσαντο καὶ κόψονται ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸν κοπετὸν ὡς ἐπ᾽ ἀγαπητὸν καὶ ὀδυνηθήσονται ὀδύνην ὡς ἐπὶ πρωτοτόκῳ
Grok:
Here is a direct, fairly literal English translation of the Greek text you provided from the Septuagint (LXX) version of Zechariah 12:10:καὶ ἐκχεῶ ἐπὶ τὸν οἶκον Δαυιδ καὶ ἐπὶ τοὺς κατοικοῦντας Ιερουσαλημ πνεῦμα χάριτος καὶ οἰκτιρμοῦ καὶ ἐπιβλέψονται πρός με ἀνθ᾽ ὧν κατωρχήσαντο καὶ κόψονται ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸν κοπετὸν ὡς ἐπ᾽ ἀγαπητὸν καὶ ὀδυνηθήσονται ὀδύνην ὡς ἐπὶ πρωτοτόκῳ
Translation:"And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and of compassion/mercy, and they will look toward me because/on account of the fact that they have mocked/danced triumphantly [over me]/treated [me] despitefully, and they will mourn/lament over him with mourning as over a beloved one, and they will be in pain/grieve with grief as over a firstborn."A slightly smoother, commonly cited rendering (closely following Brenton's classic 19th-century English translation of the LXX, with minor adjustments for clarity) is:"And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and compassion: and they shall look upon me, because they have mocked [me], and they shall make lamentation for him, as for a beloved, and they shall grieve intensely, as for a firstborn."Key translation notesπνεῦμα χάριτος καὶ οἰκτιρμοῦ — "spirit of grace and compassion/mercy/pity" (οἰκτιρμός often carries the sense of deep pity or tender mercies).
ἐπιβλέψονται πρός με — "they will look toward/upon me" (with ἐπιβλέπω implying attentive or focused looking).
ἀνθ᾽ ὧν κατωρχήσαντο — "because/on account of the fact that they have mocked/taunted/danced mockingly [over me]". The verb κατωρχήσαντο (from κατορχέομαι) literally means something like "danced in triumph over" or "derisively danced before", and came to mean "mocked", "reproached", "treated despitefully", or "insulted/taunted". This differs notably from the Hebrew Masoretic Text's "pierced" (דָּקָרוּ), which the LXX translator rendered interpretively rather than literally.
κόψονται ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸν — "they will mourn/lament over him" (the shift from "me" to "him" is abrupt in the Greek as well, and has been the subject of much theological discussion).
ὡς ἐπ᾽ ἀγαπητὸν … ὡς ἐπὶ πρωτοτόκῳ — "as over a beloved one … as over a firstborn" (intense, personal grief, like for an only or most cherished child).
This LXX reading is distinct from the Hebrew text underlying most modern English Bibles (e.g., "look on me whom they have pierced"), and the New Testament (John 19:37) follows a version closer to the Hebrew or a revision like Theodotion's Greek rather than the standard Old Greek LXX here.
-
Geert van den Bos
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:01 am
Re: Zechariah 12:10
Most Jewish translations of the Hebrew text have something like : "The nation will turn to me because of those who who are stabbed" - is that a deliberate mistranslation ic.w. the Christian claim that it is about Jesus Christ?
Grok: https://x.com/i/grok?conversation=2028368128502075813
No, the common Jewish translations of Zechariah 12:10 (such as those in the JPS Tanakh or similar renderings like "they shall look to Me because of those who have been thrust through/slain") are not a deliberate mistranslation designed to counter the Christian claim that the verse points to Jesus Christ.The differences stem from legitimate grammatical and interpretive challenges in the Hebrew text, not intentional distortion. Here's a breakdown:The Hebrew Text and Core IssueThe Masoretic Text (the standard Hebrew Bible used in Judaism) reads approximately:
וְהִבִּיטוּ אֵלַי אֵת אֲשֶׁר דָּקָרוּ
(vehibbitu elay et asher daqaru)אֵלַי (elay) = "to Me" or "upon Me" (God speaking).
אֵת אֲשֶׁר (et asher) = a relative clause marker, often "whom" or "the one whom," but sometimes interpreted as "concerning whom" / "because of those whom" / "regarding that which."
דָּקָרוּ (daqaru) = "they have pierced" / "thrust through" / "stabbed" (a straightforward verb meaning to pierce with a weapon; "slain" in some Jewish translations is interpretive but close in sense to violent death by piercing).
A very literal word-for-word rendering is something like: "they will look to Me [the] one whom they have pierced."This creates an abrupt shift: God says "look to Me" (whom they pierced), then "they will mourn for him" (using a third-person pronoun for the object of mourning). This pronoun switch ("Me" → "him") appears in the Hebrew itself and has puzzled interpreters for centuries.Main Translation ApproachesChristian-influenced Bibles (e.g., KJV, NIV, ESV): "they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him..."
This keeps "Me" as the pierced one (identifying God/the Messiah as pierced) and treats the shift to "him" as referring to the same figure (or a representative). The New Testament (John 19:37) quotes it as "They will look on him whom they have pierced," aligning it closely with Jesus' crucifixion.
Jewish translations (e.g., JPS 1917/1985, many Orthodox editions, Chabad): "they shall look to Me because of those whom they (or the nations) have pierced/thrust through/slaughtered," with mourning over "him/it" referring to the slain (often Jewish martyrs or victims in battle).
This reads אֵת אֲשֶׁר more as "concerning those whom" rather than a direct "whom" identifying "Me" as the pierced party.
Both are defensible based on Hebrew grammar:אֵת אֲשֶׁר can function as a direct relative ("whom") or as "that which"/"concerning that" in some contexts.
The verb daqaru unambiguously means "pierced" (not just "slain" in a generic sense), though "slain" appears in some Jewish renderings as an interpretive gloss for the violent piercing.
Is It Deliberate Bias?No evidence supports the idea of deliberate mistranslation to "avoid" a Christian reading.The standard Jewish rendering aligns with classical commentators like Rashi (11th century), who explains: the people look to God to complain/mourn over those (Jews) whom the nations pierced/killed in exile. He also notes a rabbinic midrashic view linking the mourning to Messiah ben Joseph (a suffering messianic figure slain in battle).
Ancient sources like the Talmud (Sukkah 52a) discuss the verse messianically (mourning over a slain Messiah figure), while keeping the "look to Me" language.
The differences predate modern polemics and reflect longstanding interpretive traditions, not post-Christian editing to counter Jesus claims.
SummaryThe verse is genuinely difficult and ambiguous in Hebrew—hence the variations. Jewish translations prioritize a reading where God is not the one pierced (mourning is over slain Jews or a messianic figure), which fits traditional Jewish theology (God is incorporeal and not subject to piercing). Christian translations emphasize the direct "Me... pierced" to connect to Jesus. Neither side is fabricating the text; both are interpreting the same consonants with different grammatical decisions and theological lenses.If you're looking at a specific Jewish Bible edition that says "stabbed" or "slain," it's usually an attempt to convey the violent sense of daqaru in natural English, not a cover-up. The core Hebrew text supports neither side as unambiguously "wrong."
Grok: https://x.com/i/grok?conversation=2028368128502075813
No, the common Jewish translations of Zechariah 12:10 (such as those in the JPS Tanakh or similar renderings like "they shall look to Me because of those who have been thrust through/slain") are not a deliberate mistranslation designed to counter the Christian claim that the verse points to Jesus Christ.The differences stem from legitimate grammatical and interpretive challenges in the Hebrew text, not intentional distortion. Here's a breakdown:The Hebrew Text and Core IssueThe Masoretic Text (the standard Hebrew Bible used in Judaism) reads approximately:
וְהִבִּיטוּ אֵלַי אֵת אֲשֶׁר דָּקָרוּ
(vehibbitu elay et asher daqaru)אֵלַי (elay) = "to Me" or "upon Me" (God speaking).
אֵת אֲשֶׁר (et asher) = a relative clause marker, often "whom" or "the one whom," but sometimes interpreted as "concerning whom" / "because of those whom" / "regarding that which."
דָּקָרוּ (daqaru) = "they have pierced" / "thrust through" / "stabbed" (a straightforward verb meaning to pierce with a weapon; "slain" in some Jewish translations is interpretive but close in sense to violent death by piercing).
A very literal word-for-word rendering is something like: "they will look to Me [the] one whom they have pierced."This creates an abrupt shift: God says "look to Me" (whom they pierced), then "they will mourn for him" (using a third-person pronoun for the object of mourning). This pronoun switch ("Me" → "him") appears in the Hebrew itself and has puzzled interpreters for centuries.Main Translation ApproachesChristian-influenced Bibles (e.g., KJV, NIV, ESV): "they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him..."
This keeps "Me" as the pierced one (identifying God/the Messiah as pierced) and treats the shift to "him" as referring to the same figure (or a representative). The New Testament (John 19:37) quotes it as "They will look on him whom they have pierced," aligning it closely with Jesus' crucifixion.
Jewish translations (e.g., JPS 1917/1985, many Orthodox editions, Chabad): "they shall look to Me because of those whom they (or the nations) have pierced/thrust through/slaughtered," with mourning over "him/it" referring to the slain (often Jewish martyrs or victims in battle).
This reads אֵת אֲשֶׁר more as "concerning those whom" rather than a direct "whom" identifying "Me" as the pierced party.
Both are defensible based on Hebrew grammar:אֵת אֲשֶׁר can function as a direct relative ("whom") or as "that which"/"concerning that" in some contexts.
The verb daqaru unambiguously means "pierced" (not just "slain" in a generic sense), though "slain" appears in some Jewish renderings as an interpretive gloss for the violent piercing.
Is It Deliberate Bias?No evidence supports the idea of deliberate mistranslation to "avoid" a Christian reading.The standard Jewish rendering aligns with classical commentators like Rashi (11th century), who explains: the people look to God to complain/mourn over those (Jews) whom the nations pierced/killed in exile. He also notes a rabbinic midrashic view linking the mourning to Messiah ben Joseph (a suffering messianic figure slain in battle).
Ancient sources like the Talmud (Sukkah 52a) discuss the verse messianically (mourning over a slain Messiah figure), while keeping the "look to Me" language.
The differences predate modern polemics and reflect longstanding interpretive traditions, not post-Christian editing to counter Jesus claims.
SummaryThe verse is genuinely difficult and ambiguous in Hebrew—hence the variations. Jewish translations prioritize a reading where God is not the one pierced (mourning is over slain Jews or a messianic figure), which fits traditional Jewish theology (God is incorporeal and not subject to piercing). Christian translations emphasize the direct "Me... pierced" to connect to Jesus. Neither side is fabricating the text; both are interpreting the same consonants with different grammatical decisions and theological lenses.If you're looking at a specific Jewish Bible edition that says "stabbed" or "slain," it's usually an attempt to convey the violent sense of daqaru in natural English, not a cover-up. The core Hebrew text supports neither side as unambiguously "wrong."
-
Geert van den Bos
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:01 am
Re: Zechariah 12:10
Richard Amiel McGough had
https://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_2869.php
Not just because you cannot equate Greek and Hebrew gematria
https://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_2869.php
I think it to be really far-fetchedThe Body of Jesus
To Soma tou Ihsou
= 2869
This is the nominative form of the phrase. It coincides exactly with the value of the prophecy given in Zechariah 12.10, which was quoted in John 19 above:
and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
We have the identity:
This is one of the most significant alphanumeric identities I have ever seen
Not just because you cannot equate Greek and Hebrew gematria
- Attachments
-
- image.png (18.8 KiB) Viewed 767 times
-
Geert van den Bos
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:01 am
Re: Zechariah 12:10
To me it seems that John referred to Isaiah 12:10 because of the mentioning of "hayachid" = the uniqe one = ὁ μονογενής mentioned in John 1:14; 1:18; 3:16
וְשָׁפַכְתִּי֩ עַל־בֵּ֨ית דָּוִ֜יד וְעַ֣ל ׀ יוֹשֵׁ֣ב יְרוּשָׁלַ֗͏ִם ר֤וּחַ חֵן֙ וְתַ֣חֲנוּנִ֔ים וְהִבִּ֥יטוּ אֵלַ֖י אֵ֣ת אֲשֶׁר־דָּקָ֑רוּ וְסָפְד֣וּ עָלָ֗יו כְּמִסְפֵּד֙ עַל־הַיָּחִ֔יד וְהָמֵ֥ר עָלָ֖יו כְּהָמֵ֥ר עַֽל־הַבְּכֽוֹר
John links it to the piercing of Jesus's side by a Roman soldier
Hebrew וְהִבִּ֥יטוּ = from נָבַט
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5027.htm
revised JPS, 2023 says: and they shall lament *lament Meaning of Heb. uncertain.
https://www.sefaria.org/Zechariah.12.10 ... n&lang2=en
to me that seems deliberately false! to avoid the Christian interpretation.
forms of נָבַט also in Numbers 21:8-9
https://www.sefaria.org/Numbers.21.8?lang=bi&aliyot=0
to which John 3:14-15 alluded
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
וְשָׁפַכְתִּי֩ עַל־בֵּ֨ית דָּוִ֜יד וְעַ֣ל ׀ יוֹשֵׁ֣ב יְרוּשָׁלַ֗͏ִם ר֤וּחַ חֵן֙ וְתַ֣חֲנוּנִ֔ים וְהִבִּ֥יטוּ אֵלַ֖י אֵ֣ת אֲשֶׁר־דָּקָ֑רוּ וְסָפְד֣וּ עָלָ֗יו כְּמִסְפֵּד֙ עַל־הַיָּחִ֔יד וְהָמֵ֥ר עָלָ֖יו כְּהָמֵ֥ר עַֽל־הַבְּכֽוֹר
John links it to the piercing of Jesus's side by a Roman soldier
Hebrew וְהִבִּ֥יטוּ = from נָבַט
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5027.htm
revised JPS, 2023 says: and they shall lament *lament Meaning of Heb. uncertain.
https://www.sefaria.org/Zechariah.12.10 ... n&lang2=en
to me that seems deliberately false! to avoid the Christian interpretation.
forms of נָבַט also in Numbers 21:8-9
https://www.sefaria.org/Numbers.21.8?lang=bi&aliyot=0
to which John 3:14-15 alluded
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
-
Geert van den Bos
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:01 am
Re: Zechariah 12:10
John 19
καὶ πάλιν ἑτέρα γραφὴ λέγει, Ὄψονται εἰς ὃν ἐξεκέντησαν.
Ὄψονται from ὁράω
https://biblehub.com/greek/3708.htm
also in Mark 14:62
ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν, Ἐγώ εἰμι, καὶ ὄψεσθε τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐκ δεξιῶν καθήμενον τῆς δυνάμεως καὶ ἐρχόμενον μετὰ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ.
Matthew 24:30
καὶ τότε φανήσεται τὸ σημεῖον τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐν οὐρανῷ, καὶ τότε κόψονται πᾶσαι αἱ φυλαὶ τῆς γῆς καὶ ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐπὶ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ μετὰ δυνάμεως καὶ δόξης πολλῆς
Mark 13:26
καὶ τότε ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλαις μετὰ δυνάμεως πολλῆς καὶ δόξης.
Luke 21:27
καὶ τότε ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλῃ μετὰ δυνάμεως καὶ δόξης πολλῆς.
Revelation 1:7,
Ἰδοὺ ἔρχεται μετὰ τῶν νεφελῶν, καὶ ὄψεται αὐτὸν πᾶς ὀφθαλμὸς καὶ οἵτινες αὐτὸν ἐξεκέντησαν, καὶ κόψονται ἐπ' αὐτὸν πᾶσαι αἱ φυλαὶ τῆς γῆς. ναί, ἀμήν.
Revelation 14:14
Καὶ εἶδον, καὶ ἰδοὺ νεφέλη λευκή, καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν νεφέλην καθήμενον ὅμοιον υἱὸν ἀνθρώπου, ἔχων ἐπὶ τῆς κεφαλῆς αὐτοῦ στέφανον χρυσοῦν καὶ ἐν τῇ χειρὶ αὐτοῦ δρέπανον ὀξύ.
LXX Numbers 21:8
καὶ εἶπεν κύριος πρὸς Μωυσῆν ποίησον σεαυτῷ ὄφιν καὶ θὲς αὐτὸν ἐπὶ σημείου καὶ ἔσται ἐὰν δάκῃ ὄφις ἄνθρωπον πᾶς ὁ δεδηγμένος ἰδὼν αὐτὸν ζήσεται
LXX Daniel 7:13
ἐθεώρουν ἐν ὁράματι τῆς νυκτὸς καὶ ἰδοὺ μετὰ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὡς υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενος ἦν καὶ ἕως τοῦ παλαιοῦ τῶν ἡμερῶν ἔφθασεν καὶ ἐνώπιον αὐτοῦ προσηνέχθη
After Dan Bregman ἰδοὺ is the meaning of the letter "hey"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6z7JMvHiIs
i.e. the letter "hey" that turned "yom shishi" into "yom hashishi"
it happens on Purim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6z7JMvHiIs
וְנַהֲפ֣וֹךְ
= and it was turned to the contrary
הָפַךְ
root of "mapeichah" (מַהְפֵּכָה) = revolution
καὶ πάλιν ἑτέρα γραφὴ λέγει, Ὄψονται εἰς ὃν ἐξεκέντησαν.
Ὄψονται from ὁράω
https://biblehub.com/greek/3708.htm
also in Mark 14:62
ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν, Ἐγώ εἰμι, καὶ ὄψεσθε τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐκ δεξιῶν καθήμενον τῆς δυνάμεως καὶ ἐρχόμενον μετὰ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ.
Matthew 24:30
καὶ τότε φανήσεται τὸ σημεῖον τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐν οὐρανῷ, καὶ τότε κόψονται πᾶσαι αἱ φυλαὶ τῆς γῆς καὶ ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐπὶ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ μετὰ δυνάμεως καὶ δόξης πολλῆς
Mark 13:26
καὶ τότε ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλαις μετὰ δυνάμεως πολλῆς καὶ δόξης.
Luke 21:27
καὶ τότε ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλῃ μετὰ δυνάμεως καὶ δόξης πολλῆς.
Revelation 1:7,
Ἰδοὺ ἔρχεται μετὰ τῶν νεφελῶν, καὶ ὄψεται αὐτὸν πᾶς ὀφθαλμὸς καὶ οἵτινες αὐτὸν ἐξεκέντησαν, καὶ κόψονται ἐπ' αὐτὸν πᾶσαι αἱ φυλαὶ τῆς γῆς. ναί, ἀμήν.
Revelation 14:14
Καὶ εἶδον, καὶ ἰδοὺ νεφέλη λευκή, καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν νεφέλην καθήμενον ὅμοιον υἱὸν ἀνθρώπου, ἔχων ἐπὶ τῆς κεφαλῆς αὐτοῦ στέφανον χρυσοῦν καὶ ἐν τῇ χειρὶ αὐτοῦ δρέπανον ὀξύ.
LXX Numbers 21:8
καὶ εἶπεν κύριος πρὸς Μωυσῆν ποίησον σεαυτῷ ὄφιν καὶ θὲς αὐτὸν ἐπὶ σημείου καὶ ἔσται ἐὰν δάκῃ ὄφις ἄνθρωπον πᾶς ὁ δεδηγμένος ἰδὼν αὐτὸν ζήσεται
LXX Daniel 7:13
ἐθεώρουν ἐν ὁράματι τῆς νυκτὸς καὶ ἰδοὺ μετὰ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὡς υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενος ἦν καὶ ἕως τοῦ παλαιοῦ τῶν ἡμερῶν ἔφθασεν καὶ ἐνώπιον αὐτοῦ προσηνέχθη
After Dan Bregman ἰδοὺ is the meaning of the letter "hey"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6z7JMvHiIs
i.e. the letter "hey" that turned "yom shishi" into "yom hashishi"
it happens on Purim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6z7JMvHiIs
וְנַהֲפ֣וֹךְ
= and it was turned to the contrary
הָפַךְ
root of "mapeichah" (מַהְפֵּכָה) = revolution
Re: Zechariah 12:10
I obviously CAN equate Greek and Hebrew gematria, and when I do so I find extremely compelling connections. Here's another:Geert van den Bos wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2026 12:27 am Richard Amiel McGough had
https://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_2869.phpI think it to be really far-fetchedThe Body of Jesus
To Soma tou Ihsou
= 2869
This is the nominative form of the phrase. It coincides exactly with the value of the prophecy given in Zechariah 12.10, which was quoted in John 19 above:
and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
We have the identity:
This is one of the most significant alphanumeric identities I have ever seen
Not just because you cannot equate Greek and Hebrew gematria
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
The sum of the Hebrew letters in Isaiah 53:11 = 3168 = THE LORD JESUS CHRIST in Greek.
Isaiah 53 is broadly recognized as referring to the Lord Jesus Christ. It plainly and explicitly states the absolute heart and soul of the Gospel.
And what was the "travail of his soul? It was THE LAW, precisely as stated in the NT:
The travail of His soul = 616 = The Law (HaTorah)
- image.png (9.71 KiB) Viewed 505 times
You have never been able to refute these miracles. You haven't even tried. The only thing you can do is blindly deny them, without actually giving any rational reason.
The only thing that "can't be done" with Greek and Hebrew gematria is to open the eyes of those who reject Christ. That's work of the Holy Spirit.
Praising God all the day long!
-
Geert van den Bos
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:01 am
Re: Zechariah 12:10
ain't that called "cherry-picking" what you do?RAMcGough wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2026 8:03 am
I obviously CAN equate Greek and Hebrew gematria, and when I do so I find extremely compelling connections. Here's another:
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
The sum of the Hebrew letters in Isaiah 53:11 = 3168 = THE LORD JESUS CHRIST in Greek.
Isaiah 53 is broadly recognized as referring to the Lord Jesus Christ. It plainly and explicitly states the absolute heart and soul of the Gospel.
And what was the "travail of his soul? It was THE LAW, precisely as stated in the NT:
The travail of His soul = 616 = The Law (HaTorah)
image.png
Thus we have the prophecy of his crucifixion in Zech 12:10, which God Almighty explicitly and specifically says "They will look upon ME whom they pierced" matching the exact value "The Body of Jesus" in the Gospel of John in the CONTEXT of where John quotes Zechariah 12:10. This is an absolutely irrefutable and undeniable supernatural declaration from God Almighty about the fulfillment of that prophecy in Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
You have never been able to refute these miracles. You haven't even tried. The only thing you can do is blindly deny them, without actually giving any rational reason.
The only thing that "can't be done" with Greek and Hebrew gematria is to open the eyes of those who reject Christ. That's work of the Holy Spirit.
if Hebrew Isaiah 53:11 would have counted up to 2911 (= Ἰησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος Χριστός) you would have said idem
or 2348 (= Ἰησοῦς ὁ Χριστός) ; or 2368 (= Leo's Lord
)But don't mind, the blackbirds like cherry-picking too.
- Attachments
-
- image.png (507.86 KiB) Viewed 486 times
-
Geert van den Bos
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:01 am
Re: Zechariah 12:10
Hebrew language is of another order than all other languages.
Hebrew Genesis 1:1 might prove that
or the 1:4 ratio of the two trees mentioned in Hebrew Genesis 2:9
וַיַּצְמַ֞ח יְהֹוָ֤ה אֱלֹהִים֙ מִן־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה כָּל־עֵ֛ץ נֶחְמָ֥ד לְמַרְאֶ֖ה וְט֣וֹב לְמַֽאֲכָ֑ל וְעֵ֤ץ הַֽחַיִּים֙ בְּת֣וֹךְ הַגָּ֔ן וְעֵ֕ץ הַדַּ֖עַת ט֥וֹב וָרָֽע
Hebrew "ivri" from the other side of the river
https://x.com/search?q=safah%20minkmaat ... ery&f=live
Hebrew Genesis 1:1 might prove that
or the 1:4 ratio of the two trees mentioned in Hebrew Genesis 2:9
וַיַּצְמַ֞ח יְהֹוָ֤ה אֱלֹהִים֙ מִן־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה כָּל־עֵ֛ץ נֶחְמָ֥ד לְמַרְאֶ֖ה וְט֣וֹב לְמַֽאֲכָ֑ל וְעֵ֤ץ הַֽחַיִּים֙ בְּת֣וֹךְ הַגָּ֔ן וְעֵ֕ץ הַדַּ֖עַת ט֥וֹב וָרָֽע
Hebrew "ivri" from the other side of the river
https://x.com/search?q=safah%20minkmaat ... ery&f=live