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Thread: The Rod of Iron

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yesterday I had the same thought! The punishment on the Dragon does not take place in the heavenly courts. He was removed from heaven before his destruction just as Athaliah was removed from the earthly temple before she was executed.



    I hadn't noticed that! So we have the common word "seed" uniting 2 Kings and Revelation 12. Amazing!

    We thus have two more elements that strenghten the link.

    I wonder whether the human author of Revelation noticed that the scene in Chapter 12 had so many elements in common with the Book of the Kings. We know that he consciously made many allusions to the OT, but this one is so subtle that maybe it was unintentional. This is the revelation of the Bible when integrated as a whole by means of its structure.
    But this doesn't seem to be exactly a shadow because it has some words in common but the seed for example is killed by Athaliah BEFORE Joash was hidden. Whereas in Revelation the seed was dealt with AFTER the child was caught up to heaven.

    Oh yeah the deity that devoured children was Molech of the Moabites. I'm not sure if the other nations had something similar. The Two Babylons had mentioned the Greek god Chronos was similar. And concerning Chronos if I remember what had read, was so jealous for his throne that he would kill his children so they wouldn't succeed him. This is kind of like Athaliah.

    Anyways, there are a few mentionings of Moab in 2Kings. The book starts with Moab rebelling against Israel.

    2 Kings 3
    27 Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall. And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land.
    I don't really understand who sacrificed his son: the king of Moab or Edom? And what really happened?

    Oh yes. I had forgotten about this. Revelation 12 is the center of the the 3 letters that spell out MeLeCh in the Hebrew Alphabet. So in Revelation 12 you have the King MeLeCh vs MOLeCh. It was the Two Babylons that opened my eyes concerning this: about the crowned serpent or dragon that went by different names such as Chronos, Basillisk, Molech.

    Death of a child
    Another passage that mentions the death of a child (related to Revelation 12 and 2Kings 3:27) is the 12th chapter of 2Samuel, the death of King David's son.

    The Dragon after the woman's seed:
    Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
    Isn't that what Herod tried to do in Acts 12 seeing that he pleased the Jews by killing James he later imprisoned Peter for his execution. But soon after the angel of the Lord struck him...which reminds me of the 12th book 2Kings chapter 1 when the king Ahaziah died by accident.
    Last edited by gilgal; 04-07-2009 at 10:11 AM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    But this doesn't seem to be exactly a shadow because it has some words in common but the seed for example is killed by Athaliah BEFORE Joash was hidden. Whereas in Revelation the seed was dealt with AFTER the child was caught up to heaven.
    I don't know what you exactly mean by 'being a shadow'. What I can see is a valid parallel between 2 Kings and Revelation 12. The details don't need to correspond the way we initially expect them to. This variation within a theme adds beauty to the typology. Sometime the correspondence is direct and linear, sometimes it is symmetrically opposed, sometimes it is chiastic, and so on. It is not monolithically repetitious, but full of artistic variations within an essentially recognizable framework.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Oh yeah the deity that devoured children was Molech of the Moabites. I'm not sure if the other nations had something similar. The Two Babylons had mentioned the Greek god Chronos was similar. And concerning Chronos if I remember what had read, was so jealous for his throne that he would kill his children so they wouldn't succeed him. This is kind of like Athaliah.
    Correct. We have images of Athaliah's behaviour in pagan myths - the parent who kills his/her own children.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Anyways, there are a few mentionings of Moab in 2Kings.
    I can't see why the simple mentioning of Moab is relevant in the context of our discussion. It too distant of the core: Revelation 12 => Infant threatened => 2 Kings => Athaliah => Killing of own children => Gods who killed their children => Gods who received the burnt offering of peoples' own children => Molech => The land where Molech was worshipped (Moab) => Mentionings of Moab in 2 Kings.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    The book starts with Moab rebelling against Israel.

    2 Kings 3
    27 Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall. And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land.
    It is interesting for the theme of "killing own children", but I can't see a link as of yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I don't really understand who sacrificed his son: the king of Moab or Edom? And what really happened?


    It was the king of Moab. The Rabbis explain it in the following way:
    When the king of Moab found himself so harassed, and the royal city on the point of being taken, he called a council of his servants, and asked them how it was these Israelites could perform such prodigies, and that such miracles were wrought for them? His servants answered, that it was owing to their progenitor Abraham, who, having an only son, was commanded by Jehovah to offer him in sacrifice. Abraham instantly obeyed, and offered his only son for a burnt-offering; and the Israelites being his descendants, through his merits the holy blessed God wrought such miracles in their behalf. The king of Moab answered, I also have an only son, and I will go and offer him to my God. Then he offered him for a burnt-offering upon the wall. (Clarke's Commentary)
    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Oh yes. I had forgotten about this. Revelation 12 is the center of the the 3 letters that spell out MeLeCh in the Hebrew Alphabet. So in Revelation 12 you have the King MeLeCh vs MOLeCh. It was the Two Babylons that opened my eyes concerning this: about the crowned serpent or dragon that went by different names such as Chronos, Basillisk, Molech.
    I don't know, I would have to check it out. Do you have references?


    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Death of a child
    Another passage that mentions the death of a child (related to Revelation 12 and 2Kings 3:27) is the 12th chapter of 2Samuel, the death of King David's son.
    Interesting. We'll have to think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    The Dragon after the woman's seed:

    Isn't that what Herod tried to do in Acts 12 seeing that he pleased the Jews by killing James he later imprisoned Peter for his execution.
    Nice insight. The theme of Christians being persecuted is also very strong on the book level of the structure, in the many links between Acts and Revelation on Spoke 22.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    But soon after the angel of the Lord struck him...which reminds me of the 12th book 2Kings chapter 1 when the king Ahaziah died by accident.
    I would have to think more about this. But I have long seen the link based on the theme of protection of the "angel of the Lord" in Acts 12, Revelation 12, Psalm 34:7, 2 Kings 6 and the "twelve legions" of angels that were ready to protect the Lord (Mat 26:53).
    Last edited by Victor; 04-09-2009 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Psa 32:7 instead of 34:8

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    Spoke 12: Revelation 12 and Lamed as Rod

    There are more interesting facts concerning the occurrences of the 'Rod of Iron' in Revelation.

    Keeping up with our study of the "rod of iron, its mention in Revelation 12 is noteworthy. The twelfth Hebrew letter is Lamed, which has the traditional symbolic meaning of the Shepherd’s Staff. This gives rise to the understanding of Lamed as God’s Rod, a Rod that dispenses both comfort and wrath. This is especially noticeable on Spoke 12 of the Bible Wheel, where Assyria serves as the 'rod of God’s anger' in 2 Kings and Nahum (cf. The Rod of Comfort and Wrath, The Rod of God's Anger) .

    So it is appropriate that there is an appearance of the Lord’s Rod of Iron in Revelation 12!

    And the Greek word used in Rev 12:5 for 'to rule' ('was to rule all nations with a rod of iron') is poimaino, which literally means 'to shepherd', cohering with the symbolic meaning of the Twelfth Letter as the shepherd’s staff.

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    The Rod of Revelation 12:5 divides twice

    Because of its shape, the Rod is a symbol of the Line, the Second Geometric Construct. The line divides between this and that. This idea is conveyed by the symbolic meaning of the Number 2, the number that divides.

    The rod as a symbol of division is reflected in the occurrences of the 'rod of iron' in Revelation. Revelation 12:5 divides in two halves the distance between Revelation 2:27 and Revelation 19:15. So the idea of 'Rod’ is self-reflected by this division.

    But it gets better yet. The rod of iron does double duty when it comes to dividing between halves. Revelation 12:5 is also in the center of the book of Revelation as a whole! It is off by a mere three verses.

    It is impressive to find a biblical symbol of division being itself used to divide portions of the text!

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    The rod of iron and the four Gospels - Matthew and Revelation 2:27

    The four appearances of the 'rod of iron' in Scripture are naturally grouped in a pattern of 3 + 1. There are three 'synoptic' occurrences in Revelation and one that stands by itself in the Psalms. This is the same organization of the Four Gospels: three Synoptics plus John.

    Now if we compare the contexts of these four occurrences of the rod of iron to the distinctive characteristics of each Gospel, a miraculous pattern is manifested! The correspondence is impressive and was obviously unintentional on the original writers’ part.

    Let me begin by the first mention of the rod of iron in Revelation and how it relates to the first Gospel, Matthew.
    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
    Here Christ says that he received 'power' from his Father: this assertion directly correlates with a distinctive peculiarity of Matthew’s Gospel that everyone recognizes in the Great Commission:
    Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
    Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
    The same Greek expression is used in both: 'to give power'. And just as Christ says in Revelation that he will give power to his disciples just as He received it from His Father, the apostles in Matthew are entrusted with divine authority to teach and baptize because Christ had received power from God and was giving it to them (as revealed by the use of 'therefore').

    The correlation is very striking and is based on a passage that has no parallel in the other Gospels. It also links to the most identifying feature of Matthew as the Gospel of the Davidic King. The first Evangelist is more emphatic than the others in picturing Christ as the King from the Tribe of Judah, the descendant of David.

    This is confirmed in the link between Matthew and the First Living Creature (Rev 4:7), the Lion. Christ is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, invested with royal power, sitting upon the Throne of David. This is reflected in the link between the first mention of 'rod of iron' in Revelation and the conclusion of Matthew.

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    Matthew and Revelation 2:27,28 - The Morning Star

    And here’s another link between Matthew and the first reference to the 'rod of iron' in Revelation. Christ adds:
    Rev 2:27,28 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

    This verse reminds us of the Messianic prophecy in Numbers 24:17 about the 'Star of Jacob'. It links to the mention of the 'Star in the East' that announced the appearance of the Davidic King in Matthew and only in Matthew.
    Mat 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

    Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

    Jamieson, Fausset and Brown's Commentary had to say the following about Rev 2:28:
    the morning star — that is, I will give unto him Myself, who am 'the morning star' (Rev 22:16); so that reflecting My perfect brightness, he shall shine like Me, the morning star, and share My kingly glory (of which a star is the symbol, Num 24:17; Mat 2:2).

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    Mark and Revelation 19:15 - Christ's Wrath

    The Gospel of Mark is linked to another reference to the Rod of Iron in Revelation. But this time it won’t follow the linear sequence. Instead of Rev 12:5 that we would initially expect if we followed the order of chapters, Mark’s Gospel is associated to the last mention of the Rod of Iron, in Rev 19:15.

    I count four reasons for this:
    • First: although sequence is important in the study of the structure of the Bible, in this case the sequence has already been modified because the non-Synoptic Gospel, John, doesn’t follow the canonical order within our set of four references to the Rod of Iron. Thus we don’t need to strictly adhere to the sequence in this specific study.
    • Second: when we delineated the structure of the appearances of the Rod of Iron theme in Revelation, we recognized an inner logic that followed like this (see opening post): we first pinpointed the two extremities (2:27; 19:15) and then found that the remaining reference (12:5) was in the middle distance between the first two. So it went like 1, 3, 2 (2:27; 12:5; 19:15).
    • There is already a precedent for that sequence in the surface text of Revelation. The opening salutation mentions the Trinitarian formula in a non-customary way: 1, 3, 2 (Father, Holy Spirit, Son): 'John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from (1) him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from (3) the seven Spirits which are before his throne; and from (2) Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.' (1:4,5) So it wouldn’t be a problem if a structure within the book followed this same 1-3-2 fashion.
    • Fourth, the thematic correlation between the Synoptics and the three references to the Rod of Iron in Revelation is verified when we link them that way.

    Now we can go to the actual link between Mark and Revelation 19:15!... I begin by quoting the verse and highlighting an important feature:
    Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath [orge] of Almighty God.
    Why is this mention of God’s Wrath relevant? Because the only Synoptic that specifically refers to Christ's wrath is Mark! The same Greek word – orge - is used, which is omitted in the corresponding parallel passages in the other Gospels!

    Please compare the accounts and note how the highlighted text in Mark isn’t found in the others.

    Mat 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
    Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
    Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
    Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
    Mat 12:13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

    Mar 3:1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
    Mar 3:2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
    Mar 3:3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
    Mar 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
    Mar 3:5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger [orge], being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

    Luk 6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
    Luk 6:7 And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
    Luk 6:8 But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood forth.
    Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
    Luk 6:10 And looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, Stretch forth thy hand. And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

    So only in Mark do we read about the ‘anger/wrath’ of Christ!
    But there’s more to this! The link between Mark and Rev 19:15 gets stronger because, within the four 'rod of iron' verses, Rev 19:15 is the only verse that is governed by the same Hebrew Letter that also governs the corresponding Gospel! Check it out:

    Spoke 18 - Matthew: Rev 2:27
    Spoke 19 - Mark: Rev 19:15
    Spoke 20 - Luke: Rev 12:5
    Spoke 21 - John: Psa 2:9

    Mark is governed by the 19th Letter Quph and so is Revelation 19. No other Gospel has this kind of structural link with its corresponding 'rod of iron' verse. This reinforces the association between Rev 19:5 and the Gospel of Mark.


    Better yet, there is another Bible passage governed by Quph that links to both Mark and Revelation 19! It is Isaiah 63 on the Inner Wheel of Isaiah. The three verses are linked two and two:
    Isa 63:1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
    Isa 63:2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
    Isa 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
    Isa 63:7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
    Isa 63:8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
    Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

    Mar 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
    Mar 3:5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

    Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    Note how the theme of anger runs through Revelation 19, Book 41 and Isaiah 63. Only in Mark it says that Christ had anger and that He was 'grieved' as well. That double description links to Isaiah 63 where it says that God was both angry and also afflicted in His people’s 'affliction', having 'pity' for them.

    Such a strong harmony of themes!
    Last edited by Victor; 04-18-2009 at 05:02 PM.

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    Mark and Revelation 19:15 - The sacrifice and the sword

    The Gospel of Mark is represented by the second cherub, the Ox (Rev 4:7, the calf). Among the four creatures that represent the four Gospels (lion, ox, man and eagle), the ox is the one more naturally associated to bloody sacrifice. Oxen were killed as animal offerings of the Old Covenant and Jesus is the ultimate Offering that made all those sacrifices cease. And only Mark records that Christ was crucified 'in the third hour' (9 AM), when the morning sacrifices were usually offered. (Mark 15:25)

    Christ’s shed blood serves for the redemption of all who believe Him. Revelation shows the result for those who don’t accept His redemption. In Mark 15 (Spoke 19, Chapter 15) Christ is killed and His blood is shed. In Revelation 19:15 Christ’s enemies are killed and their blood is shed, like grapes in a winepress.

    Therefore, the reference to the rod of iron in Rev 19:15 fits well with the bloody 'Ox theme' that is associated with Mark’s Gospel. The wicked go to their doom 'as an ox goeth to the slaughter'. (Pro 7:22)

    But there’s more: in Rev 19:15, the rod of iron is mentioned in conjunction with 'a sharp sword' that goes out of Christ’s Mouth. Just as the rod of iron itself, the Sword is a symbol of division, having the shape of the Line, the Second Geometric Construct.

    An in this we find another link between Mark and Rev 19:15. The Second Living Creature of Revelation (the ox/calf) is the symbol of the Second Gospel. And it is this Second Creature who opens the Second Seal, which reveals a man holding a sword! (cf. article Second Seal: Great Sword)
    Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast [a symbol of the Second Gospel] say, Come and see.
    Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
    The connection is clear. Rev 19:15 is the only "rod of iron" verse that mentions the Sword of Christ.


    The Gospel of Mark is itself related to the sword motif. It doesn’t mention the Sword of Christ but it is the book that, like a sword, divides between the two books that, when read together, reveal the Sword as a symbol of Division!
    Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

    Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.
    Matthew and Luke are centered around the Second Gospel, which functions as a sword dividing the two books that explain the meaning of Christ's Sword.

    Once again we find the theme of Division dividing the Bible Text itself!
    Last edited by Victor; 04-18-2009 at 05:03 PM.

  9. #19
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    4 creatures and the sword

    Hi Victor and all,

    I believe there are some errors in your last post and I feel the need to refute them :

    1) The 4 creatures do not represent the 4 Gospels. The 4 creatures support and represent the 4 characteristics of the one sitting on the throne: (Revelation 4 : 6-7)
    IIn the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle.
    Based on interpretation of dreams, these characterisitics are what the 4 creatures represent:
    To see a lion in your dream, symbolizes great strength, aggression and power. You will overcome your emotions and/or difficulties. As king of the jungle, the lion also represents dignity, royalty, leadership, pride and domination.*You have much influence over others.*
    To see an ox in your dream, represents the balance of masculine power and strength with feminine mystique. It also symbolizes hard work, strength, and reliability.
    To see a man in your dream, denotes the masculine aspect of yourself - the side that is assertive, rational, aggressive, and/or competitive.
    To see an eagle in your dream, symbolizes nobility, pride, fierceness, freedom, superiority, courage,* and powerful intellectual ability. It also represents self-renewal and your connection with your spirituality.

    The 4 creatures may also represent the characteristics or some of the characteristics of the events in the 1st to the 4th seals in Revelation 6:
    1st Seal - the lion
    2nd Seal - the ox
    3rd Seal - the man
    4th Seal - the eagle.

    2) The Second Seal : Great Sword. The meaning of Great Sword means a Great Killing Machine. This is related to the preceding sentence, "power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another". I don't see how the second Gospel of Mark is related to the second seal. The keywords in the second seal are red horse, men should kill one another, given a Great Sword whereas the keywords in Revelation 19:11 are white horse, he judges and fights his battles, out of his mouth came a sharp sword, rule over them with a rod of iron. The differences are just too great to have a clear connection... the Great Sword is not the Sword of Christ.

    3) "Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."

    What Christ said in these two verses in layman terms is "Do not think I am not here to prophesy peace on earth, I am not here to prophesy peace but war or division". The "sword" here means war or division not the Sword of Christ which he will use to judge and fight his battles.

    Peace
    Many Blessings
    Cheow.

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    The four Creatures and the four Gospels - Mark and the sword, the symbol of division

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    I believe there are some errors in your last post and I feel the need to refute them :
    Hi Cheow!

    Let's break it in parts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    1) The 4 creatures do not represent the 4 Gospels. The 4 creatures support and represent the 4 characteristics of the one sitting on the throne: (Revelation 4 : 6-7)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    IIn the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle.
    The 4 Creatures (Cherubim) represent 4 characteristics of the One sitting on the throne no doubt! Four different angles/attributes of the same God.

    And we know that the Bible is a deep book with many harmonics and overtones springing from the same symbols (e.g.: Light => Christ, Light => Scripture, Light => Church, etc.)

    Since the 4 Creatures represent 4 characteristics of the same God, and since He became Incarnate in the Person of Jesus Christ, from the beginning of the Faith Christians correlated these 4 characteristics to the four angles/points of view that the Four Evangelists provide about the Life of God Incarnate.

    Here is for example a very ancient picture (9th century) depicting the four Evangelists and the four Creatures.




    All Gospels speak of all four characteristics, but each one has a distinctive emphasis on one of the four. And they precisely connect to the attributes of the four Living Creatures.

    For example: the Gospels are universally grouped in 3 Synoptics (Matthew, Mark and Luke) plus 1 Autoptic (John). The four Creatures are grouped in the very same way: three are bound to the earth (Lion, Ox and Man) and one flies high in the heavens (Eagle). This precisely correlates with the fact that John is the Gospel that takes us above by placing much emphasis on the heavenly origins of Christ. "I am from above", He says in John 8:23. He is the Logos who created the Universe.

    When we go to the precise correspondence of the four Creatures in the sequence described in Rev 4:7 with the distinguishing features of each Gospel, a miracle unfolds. Here's a quick overview:

    Matthew and the Lion: The Lion is a symbol of Christ as King, for He is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Rev 5:5). Although all four Gospels depict Him as King, Matthew is extremely emphatic in that regard. Christ's lineage is the genealogy of a king, a genealogy built upon the name of David. The men from the east look for the newly born "King of the Jews", and only Matthews reports that story. The pattern continues throughout the Gospel of the Righteous King.

    Mark and the Ox: Unlike the lion, the ox is a domestic animal, who lives to work and serve. In Mark the works of Christ the Servant are highlighted. It is the Gospel of Action, reporting many miracles (about 19) and very few parables (only 4). Like a servant, there's no recorded genealogy.

    Luke and the Man: Luke is the most humane of the Gospels. Webster defines "humane" as "characterized by tenderness, compassion, and sympathy for other beings, esp. for the suffering or distressed; merciful." And all scholars have repeatedly recognized this exact same features in the Gospel of Luke. His genealogy goes all the way back to Adam the first man.

    John and the Eagle: Just as Matthew and Mark are in contrast with each other (king X servant), Luke and John diplay contrasting emphases. In Luke, Christ is painted as Man; in John, Christ is presented as God. He is the Word of God. There's no earthly genealogy, for the emphasis resides in showing Him as the Eternally Begotten Son of God.

    Here is a summary table:



    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    Based on interpretation of dreams, these characterisitics are what the 4 creatures represent:
    To see a lion in your dream, symbolizes great strength, aggression and power. You will overcome your emotions and/or difficulties. As king of the jungle, the lion also represents dignity, royalty, leadership, pride and domination.*You have much influence over others.*
    To see an ox in your dream, represents the balance of masculine power and strength with feminine mystique. It also symbolizes hard work, strength, and reliability.
    To see a man in your dream, denotes the masculine aspect of yourself - the side that is assertive, rational, aggressive, and/or competitive.
    To see an eagle in your dream, symbolizes nobility, pride, fierceness, freedom, superiority, courage,* and powerful intellectual ability. It also represents self-renewal and your connection with your spirituality.
    I agree with several aspects of these associations copied from the web, but "interpretation of dreams" is not a primary referential in the study of Scripture. And when we compare Scripture to Scripture the meanings of the symbols appear naturally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    The 4 creatures may also represent the characteristics or some of the characteristics of the events in the 1st to the 4th seals in Revelation 6:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    1st Seal - the lion
    2nd Seal - the ox
    3rd Seal - the man
    4th Seal - the eagle.
    That's pretty much correct. The 4 Creatures link to both the 4 Gospels as to the 4 Seals. It also links to other fourfold sets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheow Wee Hock View Post
    2) The Second Seal : Great Sword. The meaning of Great Sword means a Great Killing Machine. This is related to the preceding sentence, "power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another". I don't see how the second Gospel of Mark is related to the second seal. The keywords in the second seal are red horse, men should kill one another, given a Great Sword whereas the keywords in Revelation 19:11 are white horse, he judges and fights his battles, out of his mouth came a sharp sword, rule over them with a rod of iron. The differences are just too great to have a clear connection... the Great Sword is not the Sword of Christ.

    3) "Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."
    What Christ said in these two verses in layman terms is "Do not think I am not here to prophesy peace on earth, I am not here to prophesy peace but war or division". The "sword" here means war or division not the Sword of Christ which he will use to judge and fight his battles.
    Very good Cheow. The Second Seal and the vision of Revelation 19 speak of different things. I linked them because they share a common motif: the sword. That's sufficient to the purposes of the study above. My point is that the sword is a symbol, an archetype, of division. Christ Himself explains it so when we read His parallel sayings in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.

    Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.
    When we read the two verses in conjunction we come to the unescapable conclusion that the sword is a symbol of division (as it is a symbol of war in the Second Seal). Of course the sword above is different from the sword of Christ in Revelation 19 (or so it seems to me). But what the Gospels and Revelation 19:15 have in common is that they both display the sword as a symbol.

    So what in the world would the Second Gospel have to do with the Second Seal? Well the vision of the Second Seal and the Gospel of Mark are busy with different subjects, but we know a couple of things:

    (1) As demonstrated above, the Gospel of Mark is linked to the Second Creature, who is the one who unleashes the Second Seal.

    (2) The Second Seal depicts the sword as the leading symbol.

    There is therefore a link between the Gospel of Mark and the theme of "sword". But is there anything in Mark that can be associated to "sword"?

    Yes! Mark functions as a sword in the structure of the Bible because it divides between the two other Synoptic Gospels (Matthew and Luke), which just happen to be the Gospels that when read in combination reveal the sword as a symbol of division! So we find the symbol of division itself dividing parts of the text of Scripture!

    This is not the only instance. In this very thread I showed how another symbol of division divided portions of the text. Having the same shape of the sword, the rod is a symbol of division (e.g. the rod of Moses divided the waters of the Red Sea) and the reference to the "rod of iron" in Revelation 12:5 divides in halves the distance between the two other references to the "rod of iron" in Revelation (2:27; 19:15). See my opening post above.

    That is a wonderful and rich field of Biblical Study. The structure of the texts reflects the content of the texts.

    Blessing to you as well,
    Victor

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