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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007


    I'm having this thought whether Rome is connected to names such as Abram and Abraham, Ramah (Ramoth?).

    I'm curious to where in the epistles is the name Rome mentioned. Obviously mostly in the book of Romans being the 1st book which goes along with the first century.

    But when exactly did the Holy Roman empire started and if the epistle matches the century of when it started.

    Abram - Exalted Father.
    Abraham - Father of many nations or Father of a multitude.

    The pope seems to match both those meanings that he is considered an exalted father and the father of a multitude or many nations.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Not from this world...from the other side

    Meaning of Abraham

    Hi gilgal and all,

    An inspiration just comes to me.; this is quite interesting:

    Abram - Exalted Father.
    Abraham - Father of many nations or Father of a multitude.

    Why did God changed the name of Abram to Abraham?

    Excerpt: When Abram is ninety-nine, God again appears to him and affirms his promise. A covenant is entered into: Sarai will give birth to a son who will be called Isaac, and Abram's house must thenceforth be circumcised. It is promised that Ishmael will father twelve princes, who will become a great nation. Abram's name is changed to Abraham and Sarai's to Sarah.[23]

    Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are sometimes referred to as the "Abrahamic religions" because of the progenitor role that Abraham plays in their holy books. In both the Jewish tradition and the Quran, he is referred to as "our Father".[4] Jews, Christians, and Muslims consider him father of the people of Israel. For Jews and Christians this is through his son Isaac,[5] by his wife Sarah; for Muslims, he is a prophet of Islam and the ancestor of Muhammad through his other son Ishmael, born to him by Sarah's handmaiden, Hagar.

    Abraham is held as a founding father in the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic religions. Genesis states that the nation of Israel descended from him through his second son, Isaac. Many Arab nations are said to have descended from him through his first son, Ishmael, and Muslims believe that the prophet Muhammad is his direct descendant. An extra-biblical book known as the book of Jubilees also places the location and identity of the Ishmaelites as the Arab peoples.

    We also know that there are some problems with the name of Abraham:

    Abraham's name first appears as Abram (Hebrew: אַבְרָם‎, Standard Avram, Tiberian ʾAḇrām), meaning either "exalted father" or "my father is exalted" (compare Abiram) or "the father is exalted". Later in Genesis God renamed him Abraham, a name which the text glosses as av hamon (goyim) "father of many (nations)";[10] however, the name does not have any literal meaning in Hebrew.[11] Many interpretations based on modern textual and linguistic analysis have been offered, including an analysis of a first element abr- "chief", which yields a meaningless second element, however. Johann Friedrich Karl Keil suggests there was once a word raham (רָהָם) in Hebrew, meaning "multitude", on analogy with the word ruh├óm which has this meaning in Arabic, but this is purely speculative.[12] David Rohl suggests the name comes from Akkadian "the father loves."

    See also the website for the origin, meaning and etymology of Abraham:

    Now, this is my inspiration, it may sounds like wordplay but just bear with me. We know the following:

    1) Abba means Father
    2) He was the father of Isaac and Ishmael
    3) Isaac is the father of the Jews and Ishmael is believed by the Arabs to be the father of the Arabs
    4) God changed the name of Abram to Abraham the moment after Sarah gave birth to Isaac the father of the Jews, Hagar already gave birth to Ishmael, the said father of the Arabs.
    5) Abraham means the multitude of nations which was promised to Isaac the father of the Jews with their 12 tribes. However on Ishmael side, Ishmael was also promised 12 sons who will also inherit a multitude of nations.
    6) We know that Ham was one of the son of Noah who was the father of the Semite groups which includes the Jews and they occupy mostly the region of Ham in the Middle East.
    7) We also know that the name Abraham has some etymological problems and may denote some sort of code

    Taking the word Abraham and breaking it down into anagrams, we have A(b)ba = father, Abra = Arab, ham = the region/son of Ham or the racial group which include Jews, We have Abraham = the father(Abba) of Arabs(Abra) and the Jews(Ham).

    No wonder the name Abram "Exalted father" was changed to Abraham "Father of many nations". This is true to this present days, as we see many Arab nations and the Jews were the ones who helped established many nations in Europe and many Europeans have Jewish blood. Both Arabs and Jews have descendants spread all over the world like the sands of the sea. The Arabs formed the Arab League and the Europeans formed the European Union. The Arabs were the founder of Islam and the Jews were the founder of Judaism and Christianity. The Jews and the Arabs were almost always at loggerheads, I am afraid one day they will have a big clash.

    Many Blessings.
    Last edited by CWH; 03-12-2010 at 09:29 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Rome is where there is the exalted father, the Pope.
    The 1st book is Genesis where Abraham, the Father of Many nations is spoken of as well as exalted father.
    Romans is the 1st epistle.
    The Romans dominated in the 1st century.
    The Romans tried to bring the world together by conquest as Babel in Genesis 11.
    The Roman roads paved the way for the Gospel as Isaiah mention about good tidings.

    What were the names of the Caesars in order?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Not from this world...from the other side
    Hi gilgal,

    I agree fully with your views of the Romans. The list of Roman caesars can be found in the internet. I believe you are still looking for the identity of the ten horns which you think refers to the 10 Roman emperors. You are taking bark from the wrong tree to line the wrong boat.

    Many Blessings.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Whether I'm right or wrong it doesn't matter. My point is that you have to understand how to interpret the prophecies first and then you can figure out who's who. I've been a futurist in my views. But now I'm part preterist and part futurist. When Jesus was reading the scroll of Isaiah he closed the scroll before the sentence ended and said this part is fulfilled (Luke 3? 4?). But the rest is in the future. So I believe in a partial fulfillment.

    My goal at this point is to know history. I want to know exactly what happened with these 4 empires so I can identify all that was mentioned in the prophecies of Daniel.

    If you look at the kings of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Macedonia and Rome who do you think the worst rulers were? Rome.

    People like Nebuchadnezzar, Darius, Cyrus. The bible speaks good things of them at the end.

    Julio-Claudian dynasty
    1. Augustus
    2. Tiberius
    3. Caligula
    4. Claudius
    5. Nero

    Year of the Four Emperors & Flavian Dynasty
    1. Galba
    2. Otho
    3. Vitellius
    4. Vespasian
    5. Titus
    6. Domitian

    Nervan-Antonian dynasty
    1. Nerva
    2. Trajan
    3. Hadrian
    4. Antoninus Pius
    5. Lucius Verus
    6. Marcus Aurelius
    7. Commodus

    So there were 10 dynasties.
    Last edited by gilgal; 03-13-2010 at 11:15 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Lake district U.K

    roman and ramblin

    Hello Gilgal.
    I know that this is an inappropriate
    place but I am desoerate. I have a coin with Hadrian on it. It has me puzzled. Everything on it is in cameo exept for three tiny letters. W. R . L. those are intaglio . Now I am absolutely certain that they were stamped when it was minted. It cannot be a modern forgery. No one would be stupid enough to do it. Does the letter "W" occur in Roman.?. R.S.V.P.


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