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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    2Chronicles 26:18 links with Numbers 16:40.
    Hey, that was going to be my next link!

    In these two Bible passages we read about offering incense in conjunction with the sin of disobedience: 2 Chronicles 26:16 and Numbers 16. Both passages have the form (4,16). And just as the account of Uzziah's sin continues with the reaction of the priests on the following verses (17, 18), the reaffirmation of priestly authority is presented in the following chapters of Numbers (17, 18).

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Zacharias in Luke 1:5 is a descendant from Abijah the 8th listed in 1Chronicles 24.

    The number 8 reminds me of Ezekiel and Revelation 8 where there is burning of incense.
    Now that is very good!! Out of all 24 divisions of priests God selected a priest offering incense in the 8th division to reveal the coming of His messenger! This integrates, as you point out, with Spoke 8 and the incense motif, as specially noted in Exodus 30 and Revelation 8.

    And there's much more, like Ezekiel 8. I begin to see a larger pattern here that links with much of what you have posted on the thread Spoke 8: Ezekiel 30 and Amos the 30th book. I didn't have the time to post there with some many wonderful links that you provided.

  2. #22
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    spokes 4, 8, 14, and 16

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Hey, that was going to be my next link! :D

    In these two Bible passages we read about offering incense in conjunction with the sin of disobedience: 2 Chronicles 26:16 and Numbers 16. Both passages have the form (4,16). And just as the account of Uzziah's sin continues with the reaction of the priests on the following verses (17, 18), the reaffirmation of priestly authority is presented in the following chapters of Numbers (17, 18).



    Now that is very good!! Out of all 24 divisions of priests God selected a priest offering incense in the 8th division to reveal the coming of His messenger! This integrates, as you point out, with Spoke 8 and the incense motif, as specially noted in Exodus 30 and Revelation 8.

    And there's much more, like Ezekiel 8. I begin to see a larger pattern here that links with much of what you have posted on the thread Spoke 8: Ezekiel 30 and Amos the 30th book. I didn't have the time to post there with some many wonderful links that you provided.
    I think I know the reason why there's a mixture of spokes 4, 8, 14 and 16:
    2 Chronicles 26 (spoke 4):1 Then all the people of Judah took Uzziah, who was sixteen (spoke 16) years old, and made him king in the room of his father Amaziah.

    2 Chronicles 26:2 He built Eloth, and restored it to Judah, after that the king slept with his fathers.

    2 Chronicles 26:3 Sixteen (spoke 16) years old was Uzziah when he began to reign, and he reigned fifty and two (spoke 8) years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Jecoliah of Jerusalem.

    2 Chronicles 26:4 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father Amaziah did.

    2 Chronicles 26:5 And he sought God in the days of Zechariah, who had understanding in the visions of God: and as long as he sought the LORD, God made him to prosper.

    2 Chronicles 26:6 And he went forth and warred against the Philistines, and brake down the wall of Gath, and the wall of Jabneh, and the wall of Ashdod, and built cities about Ashdod, and among the Philistines.

    2 Chronicles 26:7 And God helped him against the Philistines, and against the Arabians that dwelt in Gurbaal, and the Mehunims.

    2 Chronicles 26:8 And the Ammonites gave gifts to Uzziah: and his name spread abroad even to the entering in of Egypt; for he strengthened himself exceedingly.

    2 Chronicles 26:9 Moreover Uzziah built towers in Jerusalem at the corner gate, and at the valley gate, and at the turning of the wall, and fortified them.

    2 Chronicles 26:10 Also he built towers in the desert (Title of the 4th book in Hebrew), and digged many wells: for he had much cattle, both in the low country, and in the plains: husbandmen also, and vine dressers in the mountains, and in Carmel: for he loved husbandry.

    2 Chronicles 26:11 Moreover Uzziah had an host of fighting men, that went out to war by bands, according to the number of their account by the hand of Jeiel the scribe and Maaseiah the ruler, under the hand of Hananiah, one of the king's captains.

    2 Chronicles 26:12 The whole number of the chief of the fathers of the mighty men of valor were two thousand and six hundred (spoke 4).

    2 Chronicles 26:13 And under their hand was an army, three hundred thousand and seven thousand and five hundred, that made war with mighty power, to help the king against the enemy.

    2 Chronicles 26:14 And Uzziah prepared for them throughout all the host shields, and spears, and helmets, and habergeons, and bows, and slings to cast stones.

    2 Chronicles 26:15 And he made in Jerusalem engines, invented by cunning men, to be on the towers and upon the bulwarks, to shoot arrows and great stones withal. And his name spread far abroad; for he was marvelously helped, till he was strong.

    2 Chronicles 26:16 But when he was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the LORD his God, and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense.

    2 Chronicles 26:17 And Azariah the priest went in after him, and with him fourscore (eighty: spoke 14) priests of the LORD, that were valiant men:

    2 Chronicles 26:18 And they withstood Uzziah the king, and said unto him, It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the LORD, but to the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn incense: go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast trespassed; neither shall it be for thine honor from the LORD God.

    2 Chronicles 26:19 Then Uzziah was wroth, and had a censer in his hand to burn incense: and while he was wroth with the priests, the leprosy even rose up in his forehead before the priests in the house of the LORD, from beside the incense altar.

    2 Chronicles 26:20 And Azariah the chief priest, and all the priests, looked upon him, and, behold, he was leprous in his forehead, and they thrust him out from thence; yea, himself hasted also to go out, because the LORD had smitten him.

    2 Chronicles 26:21 And Uzziah the king was a leper unto the day of his death, and dwelt in a several house, being a leper; for he was cut off from the house of the LORD: and Jotham his son was over the king's house, judging the people of the land.

    2 Chronicles 26:22 Now the rest of the acts of Uzziah, first and last, did Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, write.

    2 Chronicles 26:23 So Uzziah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the field of the burial which belonged to the kings; for they said, He is a leper: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.
    Last edited by gilgal; 01-22-2009 at 03:37 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I think I know the reason why there's a mixture of spokes 4, 8, 14 and 16:
    There's a lot in 2 Chronicles 26, isn't there?

    Note that my comments specifically referred to the theme of Incense, and your comments refer to the various themes in 2Ch 26, so we are not speaking of exactly the same thing, though there's an overlap.

    Concerning 2Ch 26 and your analysis, we expect that that chapter will show themes based upon Spokes 4 (Chapter 26) and 14 (Book 14). And that's exactly what we find, but we also find quite a few things related to 8 and 16. The reason is not clear to me. I sense a certain "fourness" in all that but can't figure it out.

    I once made an in-depth study showing how the theme of Building runned through Spokes 4, 8 and 16 and how that theme related to right angles which are based on the Number 4. (Buildings and Spokes 4, 8 and 16.) But in this case the reason is not clear, if there is any.

  4. #24
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    Distribution of Incense in the Bible

    Concerning incense, here's a little examination of the distribution of that word in the Bible Wheel:

    The greatest number of ocurrences is found on Spoke 2: Exodus and Jeremiah mention incense very much. This is a Wheel link. And it is based on contrast. Exodus concentrates on sacred incense offered in God's worship, whereas Jeremiah predominantly mentions incense offered to idols.

    The word "Incense" has spikes on Spokes 2 (Exo and Jer) and 4 (Numbers). There is some more on Spoke 14 (2 Chronicles). It therefore seems to be pretty much linked to temple, service and liturgy. Spoke 2: Bet, House, Temple. Spoke 4: Foursquare, temple. Spoke 14: Priestly motifs, continuity (Nun) of priesthood, perpetual incense...

    As to Inner Cycles: there is deep intertextuality between Exodus 30 and Revelation 8 on Spoke 8 and Numbers 16 and 2 Chronicles 16 on Spoke 16. (Maybe there's also some more in Ezekiel 8 and Leviticus 16.)

    On the Bible Wheel, therefore, we have Incense as a strong theme on Spokes 2 and 4 and on the Inner Cycles, on Spokes 8 and 16. The numbers 2, 4, 8 and 16 are part of a geometric progression with ratio 2. I don't know if there is any significance in this.

    There's also some internal symmetric harmony. The numbers in the second line are obtained by multiplying the numbers of the first line by 4:
    Bible Wheel: 2 and 4
    Inner Cycles: 8 and 16

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There's a lot in 2 Chronicles 26, isn't there? :)

    Note that my comments specifically referred to the theme of Incense, and your comments refer to the various themes in 2Ch 26, so we are not speaking of exactly the same thing, though there's an overlap.

    Concerning 2Ch 26 and your analysis, we expect that that chapter will show themes based upon Spokes 4 (Chapter 26) and 14 (Book 14). And that's exactly what we find, but we also find quite a few things related to 8 and 16. The reason is not clear to me. I sense a certain "fourness" in all that but can't figure it out.

    I once made an in-depth study showing how the theme of Building runned through Spokes 4, 8 and 16 and how that theme related to right angles which are based on the Number 4. (Buildings and Spokes 4, 8 and 16.) But in this case the reason is not clear, if there is any.
    I'm thinking the burning of incense has to do with spoke 8 since:
    Revelation 8;
    Ezekiel 8;
    Exodus 30;
    the 8th among the 24 branches of priests in 1 Chronicles (Abijah's line) where Zacharias descended from, his lot is to burn incense.

    Then spoke 4 ties 2 Chronicles 26 to:
    the 4th book (mentioning Bmidbar in verse 10);
    together with Genesis 4 where God shows no respect to Uzziah's offering as he had rejected Korah and Cain;

    Then there is Spoke 14:
    Where the subject of leprosy is mentioned in Leviticus 14 and I believe in Hebrews as well.

    Then there is spoke 16:
    The mentioning of Zechariah;
    16th chapter of Numbers.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I'm thinking the burning of incense has to do with spoke 8 since:
    Revelation 8;
    Ezekiel 8;
    Exodus 30;
    the 8th among the 24 branches of priests in 1 Chronicles (Abijah's line) where Zacharias descended from, his lot is to burn incense.
    I totally agree with you!

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Then spoke 4 ties 2 Chronicles 26 to:
    the 4th book (mentioning Bmidbar in verse 10);
    together with Genesis 4 where God shows no respect to Uzziah's offering as he had rejected Korah and Cain;
    I noticed that B'Midbar link on your second to last post. Very good!

    This one about offering involving also Cain is very interesting. It loops back to Ezekiel where God rejects the offerings of the people and the elders in chapter 8.


    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Then there is Spoke 14:
    Where the subject of leprosy is mentioned in Leviticus 14 and I believe in Hebrews as well.
    That is not clear. Leprosy runs through more than one chapter in Leviticus. And there's no leprosy in Hebrews.

    I can see a possible link between Uzziah's and Miriam's punishment by leprosy, this one being recorded in Numbers 12, making it a Spoke 4 link. It may also link to the idea of being accursed (anathema).

    Of course 2 Chronicles 26 has to do with Spoke 14 because it touches upon priestly themes that are not covered by 2 Kings (like Uzziah's sin and the priests' reaction; both are is ommited in 2 Kings). Richard explains that phenomenon in the Bible Wheel book. This site also does it.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Then there is spoke 16:
    The mentioning of Zechariah;
    16th chapter of Numbers.
    Agreed.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    That is not clear. Leprosy runs through more than one chapter in Leviticus. And there's no leprosy in Hebrews.
    Yeah I agree. I think there were two occurrences of verse 14s in Luke where Jesus cleanses lepers. But not only 14 but 15 too. But I have to double check.

  8. #28
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    There's more about the Number 16 and Zechariah.

    The prophet Zechariah appears on Spoke 16 in the book that bears his name, as we have discussed. But it seems that he appears in Nehemiah on Spoke 16 as well! And he figures in the list of the priestly divisions!
    Ezra 6:14 and Zechariah 1:1 say that Zechariah was "son of Iddo". In Nehemiah we read about an Iddo who lived during those times.
    Neh 12:1 Now these are the priests and the Levites that went up with Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua: Seraiah, Jeremiah, Ezra,
    Neh 12:2 Amariah, Malluch, Hattush,
    Neh 12:3 Shechaniah, Rehum, Meremoth,
    Neh 12:4 Iddo, Ginnetho, Abijah, ...
    Could he be the "Iddo" mentioned in Zechariah? Most likely yes!, for we read that "Zechariah" was his descendant!
    Neh 12:12 And in the days of Joiakim were priests, the chief of the fathers: of Seraiah, Meraiah; of Jeremiah, Hananiah;
    Neh 12:13 Of Ezra, Meshullam; of Amariah, Jehohanan;
    Neh 12:14 Of Melicu, Jonathan; of Shebaniah, Joseph;
    Neh 12:15 Of Harim, Adna; of Meraioth, Helkai;
    Neh 12:16 Of Iddo, Zechariah; of Ginnethon, Meshullam;
    There is an extremely high chance that this is the Zechariah son of Iddo on the same Spoke of the Bible Wheel! The words (Iddo, Zechariah) form a near KeyLink between the books of Nehemiah and Zechariah. It appears in Ezra 6:14 so it is not a KeyLink. (But Ezra is on Spoke 15 and it previews, in order, the names of the prophets on Spoke 15 and 16, Haggai and Zechariah.)

    As if it wasn't enough, this appearance of Zechariah son of Iddo in Zechariah takes place on verse 16. :-)

    So we have another Zechariah who was a priest just like the father of John the Baptist!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There's more about the Number 16 and Zechariah.

    The prophet Zechariah appears on Spoke 16 in the book that bears his name, as we have discussed. But it seems that he appears in Nehemiah on Spoke 16 as well! And he figures in the list of the priestly divisions!
    Ezra 6:14 and Zechariah 1:1 say that Zechariah was "son of Iddo". In Nehemiah we read about an Iddo who lived during those times.
    Neh 12:1 Now these are the priests and the Levites that went up with Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua: Seraiah, Jeremiah, Ezra,
    Neh 12:2 Amariah, Malluch, Hattush,
    Neh 12:3 Shechaniah, Rehum, Meremoth,
    Neh 12:4 Iddo, Ginnetho, Abijah, ...
    Could he be the "Iddo" mentioned in Zechariah? Most likely yes!, for we read that "Zechariah" was his descendant!
    Neh 12:12 And in the days of Joiakim were priests, the chief of the fathers: of Seraiah, Meraiah; of Jeremiah, Hananiah;
    Neh 12:13 Of Ezra, Meshullam; of Amariah, Jehohanan;
    Neh 12:14 Of Melicu, Jonathan; of Shebaniah, Joseph;
    Neh 12:15 Of Harim, Adna; of Meraioth, Helkai;
    Neh 12:16 Of Iddo, Zechariah; of Ginnethon, Meshullam;
    There is an extremely high chance that this is the Zechariah son of Iddo on the same Spoke of the Bible Wheel! The words (Iddo, Zechariah) form a near KeyLink between the books of Nehemiah and Zechariah. It appears in Ezra 6:14 so it is not a KeyLink. (But Ezra is on Spoke 15 and it previews, in order, the names of the prophets on Spoke 15 and 16, Haggai and Zechariah.)

    As if it wasn't enough, this appearance of Zechariah son of Iddo in Zechariah takes place on verse 16. :-)

    So we have another Zechariah who was a priest just like the father of John the Baptist!
    Yes Iddo:
    Iddo = "His witness"
    It's an Ayin word!

    But Victor, everything is integrated to each other. I mean lets' say I want to compare Genesis 10 with Jonah I get some set of words and themes. But if I compare Genesis 10 with Leviticus 10 I get another group of words and themes. And I'm sure that you can find 3 or more passages with very close result. I mean take these for an example:

    - 1Samuel 5 mentioned the carrying away of the Ark of the Covenant;
    - 2Kings 5 Israelites were carried captive by the Syrians (no ark);
    - 1Chronicles 5 the Israelites were carried away captive by the Assyrians (no ark);
    - 2Chronicles 5 the Ark was brought up;
    - Daniel the 5th book of the 2nd cycle Daniel and his friends were brought or carried to Babylon with Jehoiakim's captivity (in his captivity and Jehoiachin's, vips were brought to Babylon and given positions and represented the good figs of Jeremiah 24, whereas Zedekiah's captivity were the bad figs because they were so evil). The ark isn't mentioned either but the vessels are mentioned;
    - Daniel 5 were the vessels brought before Belshazzar;
    - Ezra 5 the vessels were brought back to the temple from Babylon;

    So how would anyone question there is no pattern? That's a provocative thing to question, Richard.

    I was reading 2Chronicles 35 concerning the ark and I wonder if the ark was hidden in Josiah's time:
    [2 Chronicles 35:3 KJV]
    And said unto the Levites that taught all Israel, which were holy unto the LORD, Put the holy ark in the house which Solomon the son of David king of Israel did build; [it shall] not [be] a burden upon [your] shoulders: serve now the LORD your God, and his people Israel,

    Was there a special place where Solomon built a house to keep the ark out of the Temple?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There's more about the Number 16 and Zechariah.

    The prophet Zechariah appears on Spoke 16 in the book that bears his name, as we have discussed. But it seems that he appears in Nehemiah on Spoke 16 as well! And he figures in the list of the priestly divisions!
    Ezra 6:14 and Zechariah 1:1 say that Zechariah was "son of Iddo". In Nehemiah we read about an Iddo who lived during those times.
    Neh 12:1 Now these are the priests and the Levites that went up with Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua: Seraiah, Jeremiah, Ezra,
    Neh 12:2 Amariah, Malluch, Hattush,
    Neh 12:3 Shechaniah, Rehum, Meremoth,
    Neh 12:4 Iddo, Ginnetho, Abijah, ...
    Could he be the "Iddo" mentioned in Zechariah? Most likely yes!, for we read that "Zechariah" was his descendant!
    Neh 12:12 And in the days of Joiakim were priests, the chief of the fathers: of Seraiah, Meraiah; of Jeremiah, Hananiah;
    Neh 12:13 Of Ezra, Meshullam; of Amariah, Jehohanan;
    Neh 12:14 Of Melicu, Jonathan; of Shebaniah, Joseph;
    Neh 12:15 Of Harim, Adna; of Meraioth, Helkai;
    Neh 12:16 Of Iddo, Zechariah; of Ginnethon, Meshullam;
    There is an extremely high chance that this is the Zechariah son of Iddo on the same Spoke of the Bible Wheel! The words (Iddo, Zechariah) form a near KeyLink between the books of Nehemiah and Zechariah. It appears in Ezra 6:14 so it is not a KeyLink. (But Ezra is on Spoke 15 and it previews, in order, the names of the prophets on Spoke 15 and 16, Haggai and Zechariah.)

    As if it wasn't enough, this appearance of Zechariah son of Iddo in Zechariah takes place on verse 16. :-)

    So we have another Zechariah who was a priest just like the father of John the Baptist!
    When I was a believer, I would have been very happy to find a connection between Zechariah and Iddo since it is an Ayin word that links to some prominent themes I connected with Spoke 16. (I don't remember if I noted this one or not.) This is a good example of the kinds of connections I was always looking for. And there is a slight statistical anomaly that suggests a connection with Spoke 16. The name Iddo is found in 10 verses of the Bible:

    All Verses containing Hebrew Strong's Number H5714
    Book Verses
    1Ki 4:14
    1Ch 6:21
    2Ch 12:15, 13:22
    Ezr 5:1, 6:14
    Neh 12:4, 12:16
    Zec 1:1, 1:7

    Each verse has three numbers associated with it (book, chapter, verse). This means you had 3 x 10 = 30 chances of landing on Spoke 16 on the Bible Wheel or an Inner Cycle. If the numbers are random, we would expect a 1 in 22 chance of randomly hitting any Spoke. Thus, we would expect about 30/22 = 1.36 hits but we got 5 hits (2 in Neh and 2 in Zech on Spoke 16, and 1 with the verse number). But the verse number seems random since its the only Inner Cycle hit out of 20 possible hits, and that's exactly what I would have expected by random chance. So analyzing just the level of which spokes the books fall on, we would expect 10/22 = .45 but we found 4 which is about 9 times higher than what we would expect by random chance. Thus, if I were trying to make a case for the Bible Wheel, I would cherry pick this distribution and present it as "evidence." The problem, of course, is that this anomaly is just that, an anomaly. After years of diligent searching, I never found any real statistical support for the general pattern of the Bible Wheel. I did find a good statistical argument for the Canon Wheel (see here), but that's a different topic.

    I have a lot more to say, but am at work. I'll answer more as time permits.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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