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  1. #1
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    Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

    Can Yahweh always do what he wills, or can people thwart him?

    Scriptures seem conflicted on the answer.

    They show an all-powerful god whose plan and will cannot be thwarted or derailed, while at the same time indicating that he cannot do his will and that people can derail his plan to save everyone.

    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Do you have faith?

    If you do, you cannot believe in hell. You would not think god a loser by believing he saves us all, as his will indicates. Those scriptures say he has no need of a hell for us.

    Do you see god as too incompetent to do his will of saving us all?

    Or do you see god as a universalist god who does his will and saves us all?

    Regards
    DL

  2. #2
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    2 Corinthians 5
    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
    20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
    21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not. Isaiah 30:15

    Because they have not hearkened to my words, saith the LORD, which I sent unto them by my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them; but ye would not hear, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 29:19

    Isaiah 5
    1 Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:
    2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.
    3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.
    ⁴ What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
    ⁵ And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:
    ⁶ And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.
    ⁷ For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.
    ⁸ Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!
    ⁹ In mine ears said the LORD of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant.
    10 Yea, ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of an homer shall yield an ephah.
    11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!
    12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.
    13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.
    14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
    15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:
    16 But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

    When Jesus told the next parable, of course the listeners recognised it from the parable told by Isaiah.

    Matthew 21 (KJV)
    33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
    34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
    35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
    36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
    37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
    38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
    39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
    ⁴⁰ When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
    41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
    42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
    ⁴⁴ And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder..
    ⁴⁵ And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
    ⁴⁶ But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

    Revelation 20
    10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.?

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    So here you see how men sought and still seek to thwart the will of God to save them, and He permits them to side with Satan if they so prefer, which means that they wil, eventually, be cast into the lake of fire with Satan and his angels, for whom it is prepared.
    Last edited by Charisma; 05-02-2020 at 03:48 AM.
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Ephesians 3

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post


    So here you see how men sought and still seek to thwart the will of God to save them, and He permits them to side with Satan if they so prefer, which means that they wil, eventually, be cast into the lake of fire with Satan and his angels, for whom it is prepared.
    So god cannot do his will.

    Why call him omni=everything or gode when he is so incompetent and weak?

    Strange though how you have Yahweh torturing souls purposelessly.

    That takes one S O B of a god. Right?

    Regards
    DL

  4. #4
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    When you take the text out of context, you have no text at all. The Mosaic Cultus was in full effect at the time those verses were written.

    Not 'all' of the people were to be given salvation. The dogs are to be outside the gate of the new Jerusalem and have no part of Salvation. All are 'Sons of God...', Some, Sons of Light and Some, Sons of Darkness. The New Jerusalem came out of Heaven when the Mosaic Cultus was swept away when the Mosaic Law and Prophets were fulfilled.
    Brother Les

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    When you take the text out of context, you have no text at all. The Mosaic Cultus was in full effect at the time those verses were written.

    Not 'all' of the people were to be given salvation. The dogs are to be outside the gate of the new Jerusalem and have no part of Salvation. All are 'Sons of God...', Some, Sons of Light and Some, Sons of Darkness. The New Jerusalem came out of Heaven when the Mosaic Cultus was swept away when the Mosaic Law and Prophets were fulfilled.
    You do not think that god can do his will to save us all.

    That kills his omni-everything label that Christians take out of context.

    Regards
    DL

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    You do not think that god can do his will to save us all.

    That kills his omni-everything label that Christians take out of context.

    Regards
    DL
    No, God will not 'save' you 'all'....
    God does not 'save' all (who are the 'all', you refer to?) , He 'saves' (you might expand on what you mean by 'save') those who are His, through The Root of all of creation (that is His) Joshua/Yisra'el. The Mosaic covenant has been fulfilled and the Babylonian Talmud is from/for the gods of Babylon. Following the gods of Babylon is not following The God of Abraham.
    Brother Les

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    No, God will not 'save' you 'all'....
    God does not 'save' all (who are the 'all', you refer to?) , He 'saves' (you might expand on what you mean by 'save') those who are His, through The Root of all of creation (that is His) Joshua/Yisra'el. The Mosaic covenant has been fulfilled and the Babylonian Talmud is from/for the gods of Babylon. Following the gods of Babylon is not following The God of Abraham.
    I take the "all" in the biblical quote to mean all.

    You seem to think all means some.

    Save to Christians seems to mean saved from hell, as the bible says most of us will take that wide road to hell while only the few will end in heaven.

    Your linguistic deflection is noted, which indicates you are trying to get away from the argument and the truth.

    Regards
    DL

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    I take the "all" in the biblical quote to mean all.

    You seem to think all means some.

    Save to Christians seems to mean saved from hell, as the bible says most of us will take that wide road to hell while only the few will end in heaven.

    Your linguistic deflection is noted, which indicates you are trying to get away from the argument and the truth.

    Regards
    DL
    I will take your last sentence first. These statements should not be looked at as a deflection, but looking into the who, what, where, when and why of the first century and before. Churchanity rips these out of place and context and install a different time line and peoples, 'looking' for another 'Judgement' on 'the church' and 'the world', that is not Blblically correct. The Book was written for one Root and One People, not all humanoids. When the Apostle Paul says that 'all Israel' will be 'saved', that is what he means. Flesh and Blood does not make one a 'Son' of Israel, or a 'Son' of Abraham. Only those who are Reborn Spiritual Israel are Sons of God and it is these whom will 'all' be saved.

    Churchanity does not know the meaning of 'Hell'.... The Book/Bible is not wholly clear on 'all things'... 'Hell'. Sheol/Gehenna/The Grave/Paradise are all places of souls of 'The Dead' (First Century) 'waiting' for The Judgement at the End of The Age (Mosaic)..... What truly comes for those non-elect AFTER The Judgement? Not the wailing and crying and nashing of teeth, and fire and brim stone that is before and during The Judgement. Heaven is eternal for the Soul. Do not fear him that can kill the body, but fear Him that can kill the body and the soul.
    Brother Les

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    I will take your last sentence first. These statements should not be looked at as a deflection, but looking into the who, what, where, when and why of the first century and before. Churchanity rips these out of place and context and install a different time line and peoples, 'looking' for another 'Judgement' on 'the church' and 'the world', that is not Blblically correct. The Book was written for one Root and One People, not all humanoids. When the Apostle Paul says that 'all Israel' will be 'saved', that is what he means. Flesh and Blood does not make one a 'Son' of Israel, or a 'Son' of Abraham. Only those who are Reborn Spiritual Israel are Sons of God and it is these whom will 'all' be saved.

    Churchanity does not know the meaning of 'Hell'.... The Book/Bible is not wholly clear on 'all things'... 'Hell'. Sheol/Gehenna/The Grave/Paradise are all places of souls of 'The Dead' (First Century) 'waiting' for The Judgement at the End of The Age (Mosaic)..... What truly comes for those non-elect AFTER The Judgement? Not the wailing and crying and nashing of teeth, and fire and brim stone that is before and during The Judgement. Heaven is eternal for the Soul. Do not fear him that can kill the body, but fear Him that can kill the body and the soul.
    I agree that a literal reading of the bible turns it into garbage.

    Regards
    DL

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    I agree that a literal reading of the bible turns it into garbage.

    Regards
    DL

    Oh, but the Bible is completely 'Literal'.... it is how the context of reading it makes the reality of that literalism to come out. The Hebraic mindset and culture is Eastern Oriental and that is how the Bible is written and speaks. The question in reading any text is how the writer wants 'you' to read/see it. Are not certain texts written in the Physical Literal, Metaphoric Literal, or Spiritual Literal and/or a combinations of two or three of these? Always step into the shoes of the writer and recipient of THAT time frame.
    Scripture was not written 'To Us', but was kept as it is 'For Us', for our learning and understanding. 'We' are 'the children' of those to whom The Book was written to and for.
    Brother Les

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