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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    It's artificial

    In Dutch we say "gezocht"

    Jesus had to made fit into Genesis 1:1

    Like also some say that Jesus is present in the middle word "et", since this word is written with the first and last letter of Hebrew alphabeth, and the risen Jesus himself should have said (according to Revelation 22:13) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

    ("the first and the last" being after Isaiah 44:6, So said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts, "I am first and I am last, and besides Me there is no God., which is clearly not about the first and last letter of Hebrew alphabet, but about God's singularity)


    "
    It is gezocht, yes, but isn't it interesting that it can be done at all? That so slight a change in format yields 2368? Many people look for absolute proof, based on their own prior ideas about God and reality. It seems much better to me to just look at what is there and decide on the evidence itself whether or not these patterns are chance or design. I'm not 100% convinced myself, but this looks like design to me.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    So? Why do you get to make up a reason when you complained about the reason Bill made up (because the other numbers in Genesis 1:1 have 3 digits, and 3 = Trinity)?


    They were putting the numerical values of the seven words of Genesis 1:1 after each other in one row -- like if that would result in a meaningful number, even intended so by the Creator himself, the Creator being no one else than Jesus Christ (the one worshipped by evangelical Christianity)

    That was (already) the artificial thing


    https://www.academia.edu/40035188/Ge...ork_card=title
    These multiples of 37 total 703 - representing the triangle which fits perfectly within the verse triangle 2701 and the hexagon 1801 (see Figure 24) - have a significant part to play in making possible the presence of 2368 among the factors of the 21-digit concatenation of G:

    9132030861395407296 = 2368 x 385643195270859547

    This strongly suggests that G is a carefully ordered set, and this is confirmed in later observations. Thus, remarkably, the Creator's Name is found again in the numerical expression of 'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."


    But there is more: because 296 - the second component - is factor of both Name and Title of the Creator, thus:

    Jesus = 888 = 3 x 296

    Christ = 1480 = 5 x 296

    Creator = Jesus Christ = 2368 = 8 x 296

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Hey there Bill!

    It's great to be chatting again.

    I understand why you might be impressed by this example. At first glance, most people would probably think that it's very unlikely that you could find those significant numbers by combining just a few numbers selected from the small set of the first twelve words of Genesis. But looks can be deceiving my friend! Using your method, there are 4096 possible combinations of those 12 numbers! Thus, there are literally THOUSANDS of random numbers you have to choose from. Here is an example of all the numbers just in the range between 1400 and 1500 generated by your method. There are 162 numbers in the list. Obviously, there are many repeats, but the coverage is pretty dense, which means it's very likely you will find any number you are looking for.

    From a statistical point of view, the four examples you gave appear to be completely meaningless.

    1400 = 420+296+395+86+203
    1400 = 302+296+407+395
    1402 = 296+407+410+86+203
    1403 = 411+296+407+86+203
    1403 = 302+296+395+410
    1404 = 411+302+296+395
    1406 = 407+86+913
    1406 = 411+296+410+86+203 . . .
    Hi Richard.

    Yes, it's good to speak to you again. Before I say any more, it looks like you're using 410 instead of 401 (I wouldn't expect the results to be much different, mind you).

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebluetriangle View Post
    Hi Richard.

    Yes, it's good to speak to you again. Before I say any more, it looks like you're using 410 instead of 401 (I wouldn't expect the results to be much different, mind you).
    Good catch!

    Of course, it makes very little difference what the actual numbers are, so long as they are sufficiently distinct to give a good coverage. Case in point: we got 162 combinations that sum to a number in the range 1400 - 1500 using the erroneous number 410, and we get 166 when using the correct number 401. You will note that the exhaustive list reveals a much better "Christ = 1480" combination than the one you found by manually searching because it is selected from the first 8 words:

    1480 = 302+296+395+401+86

    Gotta love the power of computers, eh?

    Here's the list:

    1400 = 401+86+913
    1400 = 19+296+395+401+86+203
    1400 = 420+296+395+86+203
    1400 = 302+296+407+395
    1403 = 411+302+401+86+203
    1403 = 411+296+407+86+203
    1404 = 411+302+296+395
    1406 = 407+86+913
    1406 = 19+302+395+401+86+203
    1406 = 420+296+401+86+203
    1406 = 19+296+407+395+86+203
    1406 = 420+302+395+86+203
    1406 = 407+395+401+203
    1406 = 302+296+407+401
    1409 = 411+302+407+86+203
    1410 = 411+86+913
    1410 = 19+411+296+395+86+203
    1410 = 411+395+401+203
    1410 = 411+302+296+401
    1412 = 296+203+913
    1412 = 19+296+407+401+86+203
    1412 = 420+302+401+86+203
    1412 = 19+302+407+395+86+203
    1412 = 420+296+407+86+203
    1413 = 19+395+86+913
    1413 = 334+302+296+395+86
    1413 = 19+302+296+395+401
    1413 = 420+302+296+395
    1416 = 19+411+296+401+86+203
    1416 = 19+411+302+395+86+203
    1416 = 411+420+296+86+203
    1416 = 411+407+395+203
    1416 = 411+302+296+407
    1418 = 302+203+913
    1418 = 19+302+407+401+86+203
    1418 = 420+302+407+86+203
    1419 = 19+401+86+913
    1419 = 420+86+913
    1419 = 334+395+401+86+203
    1419 = 19+420+296+395+86+203
    1419 = 420+395+401+203
    1419 = 334+302+296+401+86
    1419 = 420+302+296+401
    1419 = 19+302+296+407+395
    1422 = 19+411+302+401+86+203
    1422 = 19+411+296+407+86+203
    1422 = 411+420+302+86+203
    1422 = 411+407+401+203
    1423 = 19+411+302+296+395
    1425 = 19+407+86+913
    1425 = 19+420+296+401+86+203
    1425 = 334+407+395+86+203
    1425 = 19+420+302+395+86+203
    1425 = 19+407+395+401+203
    1425 = 420+407+395+203
    1425 = 334+302+296+407+86
    1425 = 19+302+296+407+401
    1425 = 420+302+296+407
    1426 = 334+296+395+401
    1428 = 19+411+302+407+86+203
    1429 = 19+411+86+913
    1429 = 334+411+395+86+203
    1429 = 19+411+395+401+203
    1429 = 411+420+395+203
    1429 = 334+411+302+296+86
    1429 = 19+411+302+296+401
    1429 = 411+420+302+296
    1431 = 19+296+203+913
    1431 = 334+407+401+86+203
    1431 = 19+420+302+401+86+203
    1431 = 19+420+296+407+86+203
    1431 = 420+407+401+203
    1432 = 334+19+302+296+395+86
    1432 = 334+302+395+401
    1432 = 334+296+407+395
    1432 = 19+420+302+296+395
    1435 = 334+411+401+86+203
    1435 = 19+411+420+296+86+203
    1435 = 411+420+401+203
    1435 = 19+411+407+395+203
    1435 = 19+411+302+296+407
    1436 = 334+411+296+395
    1437 = 19+302+203+913
    1437 = 19+420+302+407+86+203
    1438 = 19+420+86+913
    1438 = 334+19+395+401+86+203
    1438 = 334+420+395+86+203
    1438 = 19+420+395+401+203
    1438 = 334+19+302+296+401+86
    1438 = 334+420+302+296+86
    1438 = 334+296+407+401
    1438 = 19+420+302+296+401
    1438 = 334+302+407+395
    1441 = 334+411+407+86+203
    1441 = 19+411+420+302+86+203
    1441 = 19+411+407+401+203
    1441 = 411+420+407+203
    1442 = 334+411+296+401
    1442 = 334+411+302+395
    1444 = 334+420+401+86+203
    1444 = 334+19+407+395+86+203
    1444 = 19+420+407+395+203
    1444 = 334+19+302+296+407+86
    1444 = 334+302+407+401
    1444 = 19+420+302+296+407
    1445 = 334+19+296+395+401
    1445 = 334+420+296+395
    1448 = 334+19+411+395+86+203
    1448 = 19+411+420+395+203
    1448 = 334+19+411+302+296+86
    1448 = 334+411+302+401
    1448 = 334+411+296+407
    1448 = 19+411+420+302+296
    1450 = 334+203+913
    1450 = 334+19+407+401+86+203
    1450 = 334+420+407+86+203
    1450 = 19+420+407+401+203
    1451 = 334+19+302+395+401
    1451 = 334+420+296+401
    1451 = 334+19+296+407+395
    1451 = 334+420+302+395
    1454 = 334+19+411+401+86+203
    1454 = 334+411+420+86+203
    1454 = 19+411+420+401+203
    1454 = 334+411+302+407
    1455 = 334+19+411+296+395
    1457 = 334+19+420+395+86+203
    1457 = 334+19+420+302+296+86
    1457 = 334+19+296+407+401
    1457 = 334+420+302+401
    1457 = 334+19+302+407+395
    1457 = 334+420+296+407
    1460 = 334+19+411+407+86+203
    1460 = 19+411+420+407+203
    1461 = 334+19+411+296+401
    1461 = 334+19+411+302+395
    1461 = 334+411+420+296
    1463 = 334+19+420+401+86+203
    1463 = 334+19+302+407+401
    1463 = 334+420+302+407
    1464 = 334+19+420+296+395
    1467 = 334+19+411+302+401
    1467 = 334+19+411+296+407
    1467 = 334+411+420+302
    1469 = 334+19+203+913
    1469 = 334+19+420+407+86+203
    1470 = 334+19+420+296+401
    1470 = 334+19+420+302+395
    1473 = 334+19+411+420+86+203
    1473 = 334+19+411+302+407
    1476 = 334+19+420+302+401
    1476 = 334+19+420+296+407
    1480 = 302+296+395+401+86
    1480 = 334+19+411+420+296
    1482 = 334+19+420+302+407
    1486 = 302+296+407+395+86
    1486 = 334+19+411+420+302
    1490 = 411+302+296+395+86
    1492 = 407+395+401+86+203
    1492 = 302+296+407+401+86
    1496 = 411+395+401+86+203
    1496 = 411+302+296+401+86
    1498 = 296+86+203+913
    1499 = 19+302+296+395+401+86
    1499 = 420+302+296+395+86
    1499 = 296+407+395+401
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebluetriangle View Post
    Now there are 4095 possible combinations of the first 12 words, so I'm not shouting about these from the rooftops, but they have some intriguing features indicating that they might be codes.
    Hey there Bill,

    I don't know how I overlooked this comment when I responded earlier. Given that you know the huge number of possible combinations, why would you think there was any meaning to the combinations you picked? Using only the first 12 words, your method generates 50 distinct numbers in the range 1400-1499 inclusive, which is a density of exactly 50%. This means that a "hit" is precisely as likely as a "miss" in that range. In other words, finding "Christ = 1480" using your methods is no less likely than getting heads after flipping a single coin one time.

    And there's another thing to consider. I cannot see any logical reason for choosing to use just the first 12 words. You could have used 13 or 14 or any number, and with each additional word, you double your chances of finding what you are looking for. Case in point, if we use just the first 15 words (which breaks at a semantically logical place in the verse) we get ALL the numbers from 1400 - 1499 except 1415. That's a 99% coverage using just the first 15 words of Genesis. I think this reveals a fundamental flaw in your method. I cannot see any reason to think the numbers you selected have any meaning at all.

    Great chatting!

    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Good catch!

    Of course, it makes very little difference what the actual numbers are, so long as they are sufficiently distinct to give a good coverage. Case in point: we got 162 combinations that sum to a number in the range 1400 - 1500 using the erroneous number 410, and we get 166 when using the correct number 401. You will note that the exhaustive list reveals a much better "Christ = 1480" combination than the one you found by manually searching because it is selected from the first 8 words:

    1480 = 302+296+395+401+86

    Gotta love the power of computers, eh?
    I never saw that one before (I only make the occasional foray into the Hebrew and Greek texts). Since 407 + 395 + 86 = 888, we have both 888 and 1480 within the first eight words, or G+, as Vernon would say. There 255 possibilities, so that's (to me) fairly impressive. I like the other one, though, because along with the numbers summing to 888 we have words 3, 5 and 6 summing to 888, then 7, 9, 10, 11 and 12 summing to 1480, which gives Ihsous then Christos, and the same 3:5 ratio as the two values themselves. I'll say more in my next answer.

  7. #27
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    A correction and explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    They were putting the numerical values of the seven words of Genesis 1:1 after each other in one row -- like if that would result in a meaningful number, even intended so by the Creator himself, the Creator being no one else than Jesus Christ (the one worshipped by evangelical Christianity)

    That was (already) the artificial thing


    https://www.academia.edu/40035188/Ge...ork_card=title
    The principal message delivered by this paper is that the numbers that arise from a fair numerical reading of the Bible's first 8 Hebrew words are neither random nor independent. I have provided a number of evidences that they are also ordered. The one referred to here has been incorrectly expressed, and should read 913,203,086,401,395,407,296 - i.e. the 21-digit concatenation of Genesis 1:1. The appearance of 2368 as factor requires words 6 and 7 each to be multiples of 37. It should be clearly understood that this is not the only remarkable feature of a complex cryptogram - undoubtedly, the 'Big Bang' of Bible numerics.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon View Post
    The principal message delivered by this paper is that the numbers that arise from a fair numerical reading of the Bible's first 8 Hebrew words are neither random nor independent. I have provided a number of evidences that they are also ordered. The one referred to here has been incorrectly expressed, and should read 913,203,086,401,395,407,296 - i.e. the 21-digit concatenation of Genesis 1:1. The appearance of 2368 as factor requires words 6 and 7 each to be multiples of 37. It should be clearly understood that this is not the only remarkable feature of a complex cryptogram - undoubtedly, the 'Big Bang' of Bible numerics.
    Vernon Jenkins! Great to see you!

    This should be very interesting!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Hey there Bill,

    I don't know how I overlooked this comment when I responded earlier. Given that you know the huge number of possible combinations, why would you think there was any meaning to the combinations you picked? Using only the first 12 words, your method generates 50 distinct numbers in the range 1400-1499 inclusive, which is a density of exactly 50%. This means that a "hit" is precisely as likely as a "miss" in that range. In other words, finding "Christ = 1480" using your methods is no less likely than getting heads after flipping a single coin one time.

    And there's another thing to consider. I cannot see any logical reason for choosing to use just the first 12 words. You could have used 13 or 14 or any number, and with each additional word, you double your chances of finding what you are looking for. Case in point, if we use just the first 15 words (which breaks at a semantically logical place in the verse) we get ALL the numbers from 1400 - 1499 except 1415. That's a 99% coverage using just the first 15 words of Genesis. I think this reveals a fundamental flaw in your method. I cannot see any reason to think the numbers you selected have any meaning at all.

    Great chatting!

    There are two reasons why I think it might be an encoding (well, more, but that would take longer to explain).

    1. I believe that the Hebrew, Greek and English codes are all part of a larger Code (created as a single gestalt out of time but manifesting within time), and finding 'Jesus Christ' in English, Hebrew and Greek clustered together within the first twelve words of the Hebrew Genesis lends itself to that hypothesis. The cluster is fairly tight too. If as you say there is about a 50% chance of finding any given number around the middle of the range then the chances of finding 925, 754 and 2368 within the first 12 words are only about 12% (very roughly), although of course that is hardly stunning evidence. But . . .

    2. The words used to form the three numbers 925, 754 and 2368 sum to 2571, or 857 x 3. This is Theou Logos/God's Word, which seems to nicely tie them together and support the design argument.

    I agree though, it's not the best evidence. I'm working on a page of my findings in Hebrew and Greek for the website and wasn't sure whether or not to include this information, which is why I posted here. I also thought you all might like to see it. I think I'll leave it out for the moment - thanks for the analysis.

    Some might also object to the fact that the numbers aren't part of unbroken word strings, but a couple of years ago I found that Gen. 1.1 can be separated into two numbers: 1314 (913 + 401) and 1387 (86 + 203 + 395 + 407 + 296), which will form a compound Star of David. This is star 37, each unit being hexagram 73. The internal hexagon has 73 x 19, or 1387 units and the six surrounding spurs sum to 73 x 18, or 1314 units. 1387 is also a centred hexagon in its own right, the 22nd. Here it is.

    Name:  Hexagram 73 x 37.jpg
Views: 21
Size:  111.0 KB

    Another example also uses subtraction. 913 - 401 - 296 is 216, the units around the perimeter of triangle 2701. It's a very symmetrical trio of numbers too!

    These examples to me validate the use of broken word strings and subtraction in searching for coordinated geometry within Genesis 1.1. I think the words were chosen to have values that point to these geometries, based primarily on G-triangles, which is also what I've found within the first verses of the NIV Bible. G-triangles are particularly interesting objects, giving rise to snowflakes and anti-snowflakes (the first members of which are the Star of David and the trefoil, respectively) and I believe that they have been encoded as a metaphor for our fractal universe and generally for the idea of creation, fecundity and life, which the Creator wishes to nurture. And where better to place them than in the Creation narrative?!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vernon View Post
    The principal message delivered by this paper is that the numbers that arise from a fair numerical reading of the Bible's first 8 Hebrew words are neither random nor independent. I have provided a number of evidences that they are also ordered. The one referred to here has been incorrectly expressed, and should read 913,203,086,401,395,407,296 - i.e. the 21-digit concatenation of Genesis 1:1. The appearance of 2368 as factor requires words 6 and 7 each to be multiples of 37. It should be clearly understood that this is not the only remarkable feature of a complex cryptogram - undoubtedly, the 'Big Bang' of Bible numerics.
    it comes to mind that you also found that the values of the 28 letters multiplied by each other resulted in cube 288

    https://www.biblewheel.com/forum/sho...6289#post16289

    Via google:

    2 x 2 x 3 x 4 x 2 x 2 x 3 x 5 x 4 x 4 x 5 x 3 x 4 x 4 x 6 x 4 x 5 x 2 x 9 = 23887872000

    288 x 288 x 288 = 23887872
    288 special number = 2 x 12 squared, etc.

    Gematria of "rachaf" , verb used in the second part of Genesis 1:2, "v''ruach elohim m'rachefet al- p'nei hamayim"

    Also of "perach" = flower

    I picked it up already long ago:

    https://twitter.com/search?q=288%20m...rc=typed_query

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