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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    That's true, and that's how I showed it in the book:


    But it is a trivial step from the spiral to the wheel, so your criticism is pedantic and irrelevant.
    no it's not

    The spiral leaves an opening, a circle closes.


    That's an absolute lie. I did not invent the order. I followed the existing order found in the typical Protestant Bible.
    of course you invented the order, by rolling up the books -- book 1 had to match book 23, etc.

    Not true. Those books did not "have to" coincide. There position was determined by the Protestant Bible. We see a different first spoke on the Catholic Bible Wheel consisting of Genesis, Wisdom of Solomon, and Gospel of John. Both patters are very striking for different reasons.
    don't explode

    Protest Bible Wheel: First spoke aligns the First Books of the Law, Prophets, and Epistles.

    Catholic Bible Wheel: First spoke aligns the two books that begin with "In the beginning"

    And this is why the Catholic Bible Wheel was so helpful in freeing me from the "coincidences" I found in the Protestant Bible Wheel. It shows how mere coincidences prove nothing, and are extremely common even though they seem so unlikely. This is why numerologists so easily deceive themselves, and that's why I enjoy debunking numerology, because I always find "amazing coincidences" that seem like they just couldn't happen by chance, but are contrary to other coincidences. And so it is the path to freeing your mind from the delusion caused by cherry picking and confirmation bias (which is heart and soul of gematria and kabbalah).
    So it's because the Catholic wheel didn't run equal to the Protestant wheel that you came to debunking numerology?


    Not true. I never said I hated it "as a Jewish invention." Why do you keep saying such absurdities?
    It was thanks to the Sefer Yetzirah with it's wheel ("galgal") of 22 letters that you came to the idea of rolling up the 66 books of the KJV-bible, wasn't it?
    I don't even know if it was a Jewish invention. Numerology like gematria is common in many cultures.
    God used it in Hebrew Genesis 1:1
    If I did hate it, it wouldn't be because it was a Jewish invention but because it leads to delusion, and it deluded me for a long time.
    it leaded you into the delusion of the wheel

    But I don't actually "hate it." I just think it is delusional for people to believe in it and it's the delusion that I hate.
    God as a delusionist

    Bullshit. You're the master of "feeling superior." You are like Alex in that you think your childish numerology is an earth-shaking revelation.
    ok that's true

    I am the inventor of the numbers 153 and 666


    Don't be absurd. You know I don't believe in Satan.
    But by then you thought it was God whispering in your ear. So if it wasn't God, who else?


    Not true. First, I do not deny that there could be something divine. I just don't have good reason to think that there really is. But I do have good reason to reject the Bible as a revelation of the divine because it says a lot of stupid and immoral stuff about God.
    So you do believe in ( a good) God, and can't accept that all kinds of defamations go around, such as in the Torah in which is said that he commanded to eridicate whole nations

    [/QUOTE]

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    no it's not

    The spiral leaves an opening, a circle closes.
    That's a good point, but it's not relevant because the "rolling up like a scroll" was just a heuristic to help people understand that I was not making up a pattern (like you falsely asserted) but rather following the pre-existing order of books in the Protestant Bible. I could just as well have laid out the books in a table with three rows and the "rolled it up" to make the wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    of course you invented the order, by rolling up the books -- book 1 had to match book 23, etc.
    Not true. The rolling up did not change the order of the books. The alignment follows of necessity from the pre-existing order after rolling up on a spindle wheel of 22 spokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    So it's because the Catholic wheel didn't run equal to the Protestant wheel that you came to debunking numerology?
    Of course not. Where did you get that idea? The Catholic Bible Wheel helped me debunk the Protestant Bible Wheel. It had nothing to do with numerology at all. I avoided the topic of numerology in the Bible Wheel book because I knew it would throw a lot of people off and it was unnecessary since the Bible Wheel was about the alignment of the books on the spokes and with the Hebrew letters. I didn't talk about the numerical values of words in the Bible Wheel book at all. I was happy to find numerological links in my personal study, and I would share them on my site, but I omitted them from the Bible Wheel book because they were not essential to my thesis.

    I explained this on my old home page from way back around 2002 when I said that the Bible Wheel, the Isaiah-Bible Correlation, and Biblical Holographs (gematria) formed "three fundamentally independent Biblical studies. Each can be studied in complete isolation of the others, standing alone as a coherent, self-integrated witness to the Divine Light shining through its facet of the Biblical Jewel."

    I thought would know these basics after all the years you been attacking me on this forum sylvius!

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    It was thanks to the Sefer Yetzirah with it's wheel ("galgal") of 22 letters that you came to the idea of rolling up the 66 books of the KJV-bible, wasn't it?
    Exactly correct. I was reading the Sefer Yetzirah and tried organizing things in the Bible on the wheel and it just "dawned" on me that the 66 books would fit on three cycles. Simple as that. Everything else is history, as they say.


    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    God used it in Hebrew Genesis 1:1
    Maybe yes, maybe no. It could be just a coincidence. If you can think of a way to tell the difference between coincidence and design, let us know. It would help clear up a lot of disputes.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    it leaded you into the delusion of the wheel
    No the delusion of numerology didn't lead to the delusion of the wheel. It was the 231 gates.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    God as a delusionist
    More like "God is a delusion."


    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    ok that's true

    I am the inventor of the numbers 153 and 666

    But by then you thought it was God whispering in your ear. So if it wasn't God, who else?
    Maybe Aleister Crowley's Aiwass? He "discovered" that he was The Great Beast (TO MEGA THERION) = 666 ... seems to be connection there


    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    So you do believe in ( a good) God, and can't accept that all kinds of defamations go around, such as in the Torah in which is said that he commanded to eridicate whole nations
    1) No, the fact that I don't deny that possibility of a God does not mean that I actually do believe in a God. Funny how people get so confused on that point.

    2) Yes, that God represented in the Torah cannot be the true God (if one exists) because it has self-contradictory properties, such as supposedly being "kind, just, and wise" while reportedly doing things that are unkind, unjust, and irrational.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    I was banned more times -

    years go by, and nothing changes ...
    Actually, you were banned only one other time, shortly after I first opened this forum in 2007. It was pretty quick, but nothing like "immediately." I gave you plenty of chances to be rational but you refused as usual.

    Here is one of my final posts before I banned you in which I summed up some of your more obvious errors. Note that you repeated the same idiotic error TODAY that I corrected twelve freaking years ago in 2007! Talk about nothing changing. You appear to be incorrigibly ignorant and unwilling to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Gematria is degraded into an occult "science" when people abuse it to forge their own idiosyncratic doctrines from their fantasies.
    something you say you do yourself.
    Error number 1. That is an unsubstantiated accusation. You have never presented any evidence that I have done anything like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    no you go the other way round,
    trying to force the bible into a wheel with 22 spokes according to the 22 letters of Hebrew alphabet.
    Error number 2: Another unsubstantiated accusation. You have never presented any evidence that I "forced" anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    I use gematria to illustrate the doctrines that are derived from a careful exegesis of the text of the Bible.
    so you seem to be the one to abuse it.
    Error number 3. Yet another unsubstantiated accusation. You have never presented any evidence that I "abuse gematria". And worse, you are talking like a five-year old child. You took my legitimate complaint against real errors in the Jewish tradition, which I supported with facts and examples, and you threw it back in my face without any facts or examples to back up your claim. You also ignored the evidence I presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    no i didn't challenge the idea that the plain text teaches that God created the heaven and the earth in six days,
    Error number 4. You have directly contradicted your own statement made in this thread! I quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    What do you mean "That's what you read in it"? The plain text does say that God created in six days, and the underlying geometry is sixfold. What statement of mine are you challenging?
    exactly this statement : "The plain text does say that God created in six days, and the underlying geometry is sixfold"
    Of course, you implicitly acknowledge your error when you changed your "challenge," but then that led to yet another error:

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius
    i challenge the idea that the gematria of Genesis 1:1 is there to illustrate (just) this.
    Error number 5. I never said that the purpose of gematria was "just" for illustration. True, I said "I use gematria to illustrate the doctrines that are derived from a careful exegesis of the text of the Bible" but I never said anything about that being the only purpose of gematria. That would be foolish, since I assert, (as you very well know), that God designed the Gematria to display His infinite Wisdom, so there is infinitely more to it than "merely" illustrating the doctrines derived from the plain text. The Bible reveals the Mind of God, and its alphanumeric structure is an essential aspect of that revelation. But that does not mean that we can abuse gematria by making up what ever unprincipled fantasies we like. For example, you follow the doctrine that Satan does not exist on one day of the year "because" HaShatan = 364 is one less than 365. Great! Using that principle, we can conclude that the Messiah doesn't exist for two days each year, because HaMeshiach = 363! And lets not stop there! Your method of gematria proves that God doesn't exist for 364 days of the year, because God is One!

    Listen sylivius,

    I delight in vigorous, sharp, and intelligent challenges to my work. Anyone is welcome to present arguments against my assertions in this forum. But that's not what you are doing. You apparently got your nose bent out of shape because I found (and substantiated) errors in Rashi. Then you chose to ignore the evidence I presented in favor of attacking me and the integrity of my work with rude, childish, and unsubstantiated accusations. Have you forgotten that you are in another man's house? Where are you manners?

    Please clean up your act.

    Thanks.

    And with that, let us return to a true state of peace.

    Shalom!



    Richard
    Ahhh .... the good old days!
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post


    Protest Bible Wheel: First spoke aligns the First Books of the Law, Prophets, and Epistles.

    Catholic Bible Wheel: First spoke aligns the two books that begin with "In the beginning"

    And this is why the Catholic Bible Wheel was so helpful in freeing me from the "coincidences" I found in the Protestant Bible Wheel. It shows how mere coincidences prove nothing, and are extremely common even though they seem so unlikely. This is why numerologists so easily deceive themselves, and that's why I enjoy debunking numerology, because I always find "amazing coincidences" that seem like they just couldn't happen by chance, but are contrary to other coincidences. And so it is the path to freeing your mind from the delusion caused by cherry picking and confirmation bias (which is heart and soul of gematria and kabbalah).


    Not true. I never said I hated it "as a Jewish invention." Why do you keep saying such absurdities?

    I don't even know if it was a Jewish invention. Numerology like gematria is common in many cultures.

    If I did hate it, it wouldn't be because it was a Jewish invention but because it leads to delusion, and it deluded me for a long time.

    But I don't actually "hate it." I just think it is delusional for people to believe in it and it's the delusion that I hate.

    (all) Christian antisemitism comes down on gematria

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judensau




    "shem ham'forash" is the 216-letter name in Exodus 14:19-21 ( written with 3 x 72 letters) which appeared to be present in Genesis 1:1 (As outline of triangle 73).

    I was accursed many more times by so called Christians -- "God is not a number" but "God is love" , etc.

    Numerology ("numberology") should be something of the devil

    Maybe they are right.

    What you think?

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