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  1. #1
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    SPoke 10: Comparing the 10th book with its' 10th chapter (2Samuel)

    The parts that are black and bold show the rest of the words in common. Yup! There's a lot in common. You'll notice that some some of these common words appear in 1Chronicles 10 as well.
    2Samuel 1 and 2Samuel 10:

    H113 (mentioned 2 times),
    H251 (mentioned 2 times),
    H268 (mentioned 2 times),
    H310 (mentioned 4 times),
    H376 (mentioned 3 times),
    H582 (mentioned 2 times),
    H776 (mentioned 2 times),
    H1368 (mentioned 6 times),
    H2388 (mentioned 5 times),
    H3027 (mentioned 3 times),
    H3068 (mentioned 4 times),
    H3372 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3427 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3947 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3966 (mentioned 2 times),
    H4421 (mentioned 6 times),
    H5046 (mentioned 7 times),
    H5066 (mentioned 2 times),
    H5127 (mentioned 5 times),
    H5221 (mentioned 3 times),
    H5971 (mentioned 6 times),
    H6571 (mentioned 2 times),
    H7200 (mentioned 6 times),
    H7393 (mentioned 2 times),
    H7704 (mentioned 2 times),
    H7725 (mentioned 4 times),
    H8147 (mentioned 2 times),

    2Samuel 1 and 2Samuel 10
    in mentioning order:

    H113 (mentioned 2 times),
    H251 (mentioned 2 times),
    H268 (mentioned 2 times),
    H582 (mentioned 2 times),
    H776 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3372 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3427 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3947 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3966 (mentioned 2 times),
    H5066 (mentioned 2 times),
    H6571 (mentioned 2 times),
    H7393 (mentioned 2 times),
    H7704 (mentioned 2 times),
    H8147 (mentioned 2 times),
    H376 (mentioned 3 times),
    H3027 (mentioned 3 times),
    H5221 (mentioned 3 times),
    H310 (mentioned 4 times),
    H3068 (mentioned 4 times),
    H7725 (mentioned 4 times),
    H2388 (mentioned 5 times),
    H5127 (mentioned 5 times),
    H1368 (mentioned 6 times),
    H4421 (mentioned 6 times),
    H5971 (mentioned 6 times),
    H7200 (mentioned 6 times),
    H5046 (mentioned 7 times),

    2Samuel 1

    1 Now it came to pass after the death of Saul, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Amalekites, and David had abode two days in Ziklag;

    2 It came even to pass on the third day, that, behold, a man came out of the camp from Saul with his clothes rent, and earth upon his head: and so it was, when he came to David, that he fell to the earth, and did obeisance.

    4 And David said unto him, How went the matter? I pray thee, tell me. And he answered, That the people are fled from the battle, and many of the people also are fallen and dead; and Saul and Jonathan his son are dead also.

    5 And David said unto the young man that told him, How knowest thou that Saul and Jonathan his son be dead?

    6 And the young man that told him said, As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa, behold, Saul leaned upon his spear; and, lo, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him.

    7 And when he looked behind him, he saw me, and called unto me. And I answered, Here am I.

    10 So I stood upon him, and slew him, because I was sure that he could not live after that he was fallen: and I took the crown that was upon his head, and the bracelet that was on his arm, and have brought them hither unto my lord.

    11 Then David took hold on his clothes, and rent them; and likewise all the men that were with him:

    12 And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even, for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword.

    13 And David said unto the young man that told him, Whence art thou? And he answered, I am the son of a stranger, an Amalekite.

    14 And David said unto him, How wast thou not afraid to stretch forth thine hand to destroy the LORD'S anointed?

    15 And David called one of the young men, and said, Go near, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died.

    16 And David said unto him, Thy blood be upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the LORD'S anointed.

    19 The beauty of Israel is slain upon thy high places: how are the mighty fallen!

    20 Tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the streets of Askelon; lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice, lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph.

    21 Ye mountains of Gilboa, let there be no dew, neither let there be rain, upon you, nor fields of offerings: for there the shield of the mighty is vilely cast away, the shield of Saul, as though he had not been anointed with oil.

    22 From the blood of the slain, from the fat of the mighty, the bow of Jonathan turned not back, and the sword of Saul returned not empty.

    25 How are the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! O Jonathan, thou wast slain in thine high places.

    26 I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

    27 How are the mighty fallen, and the weapons of war perished!
    2Samuel 10

    1 And it came to pass after this, that the king of the children of Ammon died, and Hanun his son reigned in his stead.

    2 Then said David, I will shew kindness unto Hanun the son of Nahash, as his father shewed kindness unto me. And David sent to comfort him by the hand of his servants for his father. And David's servants came into the land of the children of Ammon.

    3 And the princes of the children of Ammon said unto Hanun their lord, Thinkest thou that David doth honour thy father, that he hath sent comforters unto thee? hath not David rather sent his servants unto thee, to search the city, and to spy it out, and to overthrow it?

    4 Wherefore Hanun took David's servants, and shaved off the one half of their beards, and cut off their garments in the middle, even to their buttocks, and sent them away.

    5 When they told it unto David, he sent to meet them, because the men were greatly ashamed: and the king said, Tarry at Jericho until your beards be grown, and then return.

    7 And when David heard of it, he sent Joab, and all the host of the mighty men.

    8 And the children of Ammon came out, and put the battle in array at the entering in of the gate: and the Syrians of Zoba, and of Rehob, and Ishtob, and Maacah, were by themselves in the field.

    9 When Joab saw that the front of the battle was against him before and behind, he chose of all the choice men of Israel, and put them in array against the Syrians:

    10 And the rest of the people he delivered into the hand of Abishai his brother, that he might put them in array against the children of Ammon.

    11 And he said, If the Syrians be too strong for me, then thou shalt help me: but if the children of Ammon be too strong for thee, then I will come and help thee.

    12 Be of good courage, and let us play the men for our people, and for the cities of our God: and the LORD do that which seemeth him good.

    13 And Joab drew nigh, and the people that were with him, unto the battle against the Syrians: and they fled before him.

    14 And when the children of Ammon saw that the Syrians were fled, then fled they also before Abishai, and entered into the city. So Joab returned from the children of Ammon, and came to Jerusalem.

    15 And when the Syrians saw that they were smitten before Israel, they gathered themselves together.

    17 And when it was told David, he gathered all Israel together, and passed over Jordan, and came to Helam. And the Syrians set themselves in array against David, and fought with him.

    18 And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there.

    19 And when all the kings that were servants to Hadarezer saw that they were smitten before Israel, they made peace with Israel, and served them. So the Syrians feared to help the children of Ammon any more.
    Last edited by gilgal; 09-28-2017 at 05:06 AM.

  2. #2
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    Spoke 10: Comparing 2Samuel 1 with 1Chronicles 10

    I tried to post url links to each Strong's number but it didn't save them.
    2Samuel 1 and 1Chronicles 10:

    H310 (mentioned 5 times),
    H376 (mentioned 5 times),
    H776 (mentioned 2 times),
    H935 (mentioned 8 times),
    H1004 (mentioned 4 times),
    H1319 (mentioned 2 times),
    H1533 (mentioned 4 times),
    H1692 (mentioned 2 times),
    H1697 (mentioned 2 times),
    H2022 (mentioned 4 times),
    H2491 (mentioned 5 times),
    H2719 (mentioned 5 times),
    H3068 (mentioned 6 times),
    H3117 (mentioned 3 times),
    H3372 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3427 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3478 (mentioned 7 times),
    H3627 (mentioned 6 times),
    H3947 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3966 (mentioned 2 times),
    H4421 (mentioned 4 times),
    H5127 (mentioned 4 times),
    H5221 (mentioned 3 times),
    H5971 (mentioned 4 times),
    H6189 (mentioned 2 times),
    H6430 (mentioned 9 times),
    H6684 (mentioned 2 times),
    H7198 (mentioned 3 times),
    H7200 (mentioned 3 times),
    H7218 (mentioned 4 times),
    H7971 (mentioned 2 times),

    2Samuel 1 and 1Chronicles 10
    in mentioning order:

    H776 (mentioned 2 times),
    H1319 (mentioned 2 times),
    H1692 (mentioned 2 times),
    H1697 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3372 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3427 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3947 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3966 (mentioned 2 times),
    H6189 (mentioned 2 times),
    H6684 (mentioned 2 times),
    H7971 (mentioned 2 times),
    H3117 (mentioned 3 times),
    H5221 (mentioned 3 times),
    H7198 (mentioned 3 times),
    H7200 (mentioned 3 times),
    H1004 (mentioned 4 times),
    H1533 (mentioned 4 times),
    H2022 (mentioned 4 times),
    H4421 (mentioned 4 times),
    H5127 (mentioned 4 times),
    H5971 (mentioned 4 times),
    H7218 (mentioned 4 times),
    H310 (mentioned 5 times),
    H376 (mentioned 5 times),
    H2491 (mentioned 5 times),
    H2719 (mentioned 5 times),
    H3068 (mentioned 6 times),
    H3627 (mentioned 6 times),
    H3478 (mentioned 7 times),
    H935 (mentioned 8 times),
    H6430 (mentioned 9 times),

    2Samuel 1

    1 Now it came to pass after the death of Saul, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Amalekites, and David had abode two days in Ziklag;

    2 It came even to pass on the third day, that, behold, a man came out of the camp from Saul with his clothes rent, and earth upon his head: and so it was, when he came to David, that he fell to the earth, and did obeisance.

    3 And David said unto him, From whence comest thou? And he said unto him, Out of the camp of Israel am I escaped.

    4 And David said unto him, How went the matter? I pray thee, tell me. And he answered, That the people are fled from the battle, and many of the people also are fallen and dead; and Saul and Jonathan his son are dead also.

    6 And the young man that told him said, As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa, behold, Saul leaned upon his spear; and, lo, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him.

    7 And when he looked behind him, he saw me, and called unto me. And I answered, Here am I.

    10 So I stood upon him, and slew him, because I was sure that he could not live after that he was fallen: and I took the crown that was upon his head, and the bracelet that was on his arm, and have brought them hither unto my lord.

    12 And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even, for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword.

    13 And David said unto the young man that told him, Whence art thou? And he answered, I am the son of a stranger, an Amalekite.

    14 And David said unto him, How wast thou not afraid to stretch forth thine hand to destroy the LORD'S anointed?

    15 And David called one of the young men, and said, Go near, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died.

    16 And David said unto him, Thy blood be upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the LORD'S anointed.

    18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

    19 The beauty of Israel is slain upon thy high places: how are the mighty fallen!

    20 Tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the streets of Askelon; lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice, lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph.

    21 Ye mountains of Gilboa, let there be no dew, neither let there be rain, upon you, nor fields of offerings: for there the shield of the mighty is vilely cast away, the shield of Saul, as though he had not been anointed with oil.

    22 From the blood of the slain, from the fat of the mighty, the bow of Jonathan turned not back, and the sword of Saul returned not empty.

    24 Ye daughters of Israel, weep over Saul, who clothed you in scarlet, with other delights, who put on ornaments of gold upon your apparel.

    25 How are the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! O Jonathan, thou wast slain in thine high places.

    27 How are the mighty fallen, and the weapons of war perished!
    1Chronicles 10

    1 Now the Philistines fought against Israel; and the men of Israel fled from before the Philistines, and fell down slain in mount Gilboa.

    2 And the Philistines followed hard after Saul, and after his sons; and the Philistines slew Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Malchishua, the sons of Saul.

    3 And the battle went sore against Saul, and the archers hit him, and he was wounded of the archers.

    4 Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

    5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise on the sword, and died.

    6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and all his house died together.

    7 And when all the men of Israel that were in the valley saw that they fled, and that Saul and his sons were dead, then they forsook their cities, and fled: and the Philistines came and dwelt in them.

    8 And it came to pass on the morrow, when the Philistines came to strip the slain, that they found Saul and his sons fallen in mount Gilboa.

    9 And when they had stripped him, they took his head, and his armour, and sent into the land of the Philistines round about, to carry tidings unto their idols, and to the people.

    10 And they put his armour in the house of their gods, and fastened his head in the temple of Dagon.

    11 And when all Jabeshgilead heard all that the Philistines had done to Saul,

    12 They arose, all the valiant men, and took away the body of Saul, and the bodies of his sons, and brought them to Jabesh, and buried their bones under the oak in Jabesh, and fasted seven days.

    13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

    14 And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.
    Last edited by gilgal; 09-28-2017 at 05:10 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    I tried to post url links to each Strong's number but it didn't save them.
    Greg,

    What's the point of those numbers? I don't see how they could tell anything about any pattern because other chapters that are not connected by verse indexes could have even more connections, and other chapters that are connected by verse numbers may have very few.

    If you want to find evidence of a pattern, you need to do a complete analysis of the entire Bible. But that would require that you find a correlation between Hebrew and Greek Strong's numbers which would be very difficult. That's why I never did the analysis. And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't support your thesis anyway. I really don't think statistics would objectively confirm the pattern.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #4
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    As for your problem saving the Strong's numbers, that could be caused by the browser you are using. Chrome, for example, blocks some code that looks like a security threat. And there are some settings on the server designed to prevent SQL Injection attacks that could have prevent that post from being accepted. If you could give me more details I will look into it.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Greg,

    What's the point of those numbers? I don't see how they could tell anything about any pattern because other chapters that are not connected by verse indexes could have even more connections, and other chapters that are connected by verse numbers may have very few.

    If you want to find evidence of a pattern, you need to do a complete analysis of the entire Bible. But that would require that you find a correlation between Hebrew and Greek Strong's numbers which would be very difficult. That's why I never did the analysis. And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't support your thesis anyway. I really don't think statistics would objectively confirm the pattern.

    Richard
    Joshua 10, 1Samuel 1 and 10 and 1Chronicles 10 are linked to each other.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Joshua 10, 1Samuel 1 and 10 and 1Chronicles 10 are linked to each other.
    Come on Greg. Please try to answer the question I asked.

    How do the numbers show they are "linked" in a meaningful way? Other chapters are "linked" but they don't have any chapter or verse numbers that align with the Wheel. And other chapters that are aligned on the wheel don't have anything in common.

    Don't you understand that cherry picking is a logical flaw that easily leads to false beliefs and even delusion? Don't you care about the truth? I just don't get it. I've explained this many times and you have not responded.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Come on Greg. Please try to answer the question I asked.

    How do the numbers show they are "linked" in a meaningful way? Other chapters are "linked" but they don't have any chapter or verse numbers that align with the Wheel. And other chapters that are aligned on the wheel don't have anything in common.

    Don't you understand that cherry picking is a logical flaw that easily leads to false beliefs and even delusion? Don't you care about the truth? I just don't get it. I've explained this many times and you have not responded.
    Well my theory is that the number representing that book and the same number or spoke in it's innerwheel have something in common:
    - Genesis 1:1 links to itself, being the creation of heaven and earth;
    - Exodus being the 2nd book relates to Exodus 2 and possibly 24;
    - Leviticus being the 3rd book might link to Leviticus 3 (I haven't looked into these yet);
    - I've checked Joshua, the 6th book with chapter 6, the battle of Jericho but I have to take a closer look. Joshua not leaving the tabernacle in the wilderness resembles Isaiah in Isaiah 6 in the presence of God, responding him, "Send me". Joshua and Isaiah have the word "salvation" in their names.

    Judges 7 has a lot of mentioning of trumpets comparing to the rest of its' chapters.

    I prepared a database and script to search two texts side-by-side to verify the common Strong's numbered words. But I haven't checked everything yet.

    The best example I could find is what I had found long time ago, which is 1Samuel 1 and 1Samuel 9. Even though "the son of" is a common term everywhere but the way it was presented is unique to these two texts, how both Samuel and Saul were introduced in the book.

    As I meditate this book I begin to understand that "the word becomes flesh" or the "word materializes" in other words, God's word is prophetic. God says and it comes to pass.

    When Hannah prayed, she desired a child. "Saul" means desire. God heard her and she called her child Samuel, meaning "God has heard". And these two things, Samuel and Saul, or "desiring" and "God hearing" have been personified throughout the book. Israel "desired" a king in 1Samuel 8 and God had heard their desire. Even though he wasn't pleased with the request he gave it to them. He sent rain showing he wasn't pleased at their request. But still, Israel desired (Saul) and God heard (Samuel) and Saul was introduced in the next chapter. Their desire was fleshed out.

    But after 1Samuel 15, when Saul disobeyed God's commandment, Samuel didn't see Saul anymore. God didn't hear Saul anymore because Saul didn't please God. So there is a relationship problem between Saul and God. "desire" is not "heard by God" when his commandments are disobeyed.

    And God tells Samuel (heard by God) to meet David (beloved; also a man after God's own heart).

    If you expect me to give you a direct answer to everything, I can't give it to you because an entire lifetime of studying the bible isn't enough. Stats don't prove anything. Because you need to study meaning of names and the words links to their root words or vice versa, and then some parts of Daniel aren't even in Hebrew. They're in Aramaic. And then there are the word plays. Genesis 11's Tower of Babel story As I've read about in an article had word plays, words being reversed, perhaps signifying that man's selfish goals are opposite to God's plan for us.

    Also within a chapter there are multiple numbers involved. For example in Genesis 37 (spoke 15 of the innerwheel of Genesis) Joseph (meaning "he will add") was 17 years old. He was also the 11th son of Jacob. And the is a lot of wordplay on words with the letter Samech the 15th letter:

    Joseph - yosseph;
    more - yassaf;
    colors - passim;
    tell/told/record - sepher;
    silver - kassaph;

    And even though in the next chapter (Genesis 38) Joseph is forgotten, 39 continues (spoke 17). I don't know beyond that point. But I think the Biblewheel is beyond the study of words appearing in places where their first letter is related to the spoke.
    You need to read, to listen, to meditate over and over, which is what I was doing to really understand the text. I would spend more than a week to really absorb it while I was studying 2Kings and Nahum. I had found a lot of connections without looking at the Strong's back then.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Well my theory is that the number representing that book and the same number or spoke in it's innerwheel have something in common:
    - Genesis 1:1 links to itself, being the creation of heaven and earth;
    - Exodus being the 2nd book relates to Exodus 2 and possibly 24;
    - Leviticus being the 3rd book might link to Leviticus 3 (I haven't looked into these yet);
    - I've checked Joshua, the 6th book with chapter 6, the battle of Jericho but I have to take a closer look. Joshua not leaving the tabernacle in the wilderness resembles Isaiah in Isaiah 6 in the presence of God, responding him, "Send me". Joshua and Isaiah have the word "salvation" in their names.
    Hey there Greg,

    I understand "your" theory perfectly, since it is the same theory I put forth on this site. But there is a HUGE problem with your method. Merely looking for things in common is a textbook case of SELECTION BIAS, aka CHERRY PICKING. It doesn't matter how many "connections" you find if all you are doing is looking for hits while ignoring all the misses. No one would have any reason to think there is any meaning to such a collection because it tells you nothing about whether or not there is a real pattern.

    To find real patterns, we must look at ALL the data, not just the bits and pieces that fit what we want to believe.

    Do you understand this point? I feel like I've explained it a dozen times to you but you keep repeating the same error anyway.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Hey there Greg,

    I understand "your" theory perfectly, since it is the same theory I put forth on this site. But there is a HUGE problem with your method. Merely looking for things in common is a textbook case of SELECTION BIAS, aka CHERRY PICKING. It doesn't matter how many "connections" you find if all you are doing is looking for hits while ignoring all the misses. No one would have any reason to think there is any meaning to such a collection because it tells you nothing about whether or not there is a real pattern.

    To find real patterns, we must look at ALL the data, not just the bits and pieces that fit what we want to believe.

    Do you understand this point? I feel like I've explained it a dozen times to you but you keep repeating the same error anyway.

    All the best,

    Richard
    Give me some examples. But you need to study further to get more accurate results. There are a lot of errors in the theory we had years ago. But it did set some foundations. I think this foundation existed before we developed our own theories. I mean I've seen a youtube video confirming like I believe you mentioned Thomas Nelson's forward that Isaiah is a miniature bible:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP3ew-9DneU

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Give me some examples. But you need to study further to get more accurate results. There are a lot of errors in the theory we had years ago. But it did set some foundations. I think this foundation existed before we developed our own theories. I mean I've seen a youtube video confirming like I believe you mentioned Thomas Nelson's forward that Isaiah is a miniature bible:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP3ew-9DneU
    Yes, the "Miniature Bible" idea is very attractive. And there are some excellent hits, but there also are a lot of misses. And worse ... different people use different orders for the books and still find connections that convince them their own peculiar order is correct. I discuss this at length in a couple articles on my blog:

    The Isaiah-Bible Coincidence Debunked

    The Bible Wheel: Patternicity on Steroids
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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