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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
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    My Current Status and Motivation - Ask Me Anything

    Quote Originally Posted by davidjayjordan View Post
    Richard, could you give an update on your personal status..... I dont want to misunderstand you nor your aim and intent.

    I think from reading some of your posts way back when... that you ewere a Christian and thought you found a Bible Code, and then when you discovered the Bible Code was errant you necame a non Christian, and debinked not just your code but also Christianity.

    So not wanting to misinterpret your new words or posts, could you explain your motivations herein now, so I and maybe others might be better informed.... on your new status, not just the forum status.

    Thanks so much for the venue.

    IHS

    David
    Hi David,

    I appreciate your respectful approach. I've gone through a lot of changes over the past few years, so you are wise to ask for my current status.

    Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to simply state a "status" - since there are too many aspects and nuances. There's not much value in using labels like "atheist" or "skeptic" or whatever since those terms carry a lot of baggage and mean different things to different people. But we really can't discuss anything without the use of labels, so I'll toss out a few that might help get the conversation going in the right direction. Then we can clarify things as the discussion progresses.

    I call myself an atheist because I am not a theist. But this can lead to confusion, since some people think "atheism" means the assertion "There is no god" as opposed to merely not believing in any god. There's a big difference between "I believe there is no god" vs. I do not believe there is a god." I do not claim that there is no god, since there could be one I know nothing about, but I do claim that I have sufficient justification to reject all the gods that have been proposed (e.g. Allah, Krishna, Yahweh, Zeus, etc.).

    One of the biggest changes came when I quit my habit of "magical thinking." I used to interpret everything as a sort of "sign" from God. It started back in the days of my "Vision Quest" after I quit college and road my bike down the West Coast from Seattle to LA and back. And then I went to a Rainbow Gathering and hitchhiked across the county, having many adventures and meeting people with all sorts of metaphysical beliefs. I began to use the I Ching and took an interest in Astrology and Tarot, which led to the Kabbalah and then to the Bible. I explain how this happened in my blog article Debunking Myself: What A Long Strange Trip It's Been.

    I wouldn't use the term "Bible Code" to describe the patterns I found because that term typically refers to Equidistant Letter Sequences which never impressed me.

    It's also important to not that your description of what happened is out of sequence. I rejected Christianity before, not after, debunking the Bible Wheel. This is a very important difference. I did not quit Christianity because of debunking the Bible Wheel. On the contrary, I quit Christianity in 2011 because the Bible is flawed and God cannot be trusted (as explained in my article Why I Quit Christianity). It took me another three years to get the clarity of mind to debunk the Bible Wheel. It was a very strange time. I couldn't understand how the Bible could be false and yet contain the patterns I saw in the Bible Wheel. I explored a lot of possibilities, such as Jungian Archetypes (see the Bible Wheel as a Cosmic Mandala of Archetypal Wholeness), the product of evolution driven by a conscious or unconscious scribal selection process (see An Evolutionary Explanation of the Bible Wheel), and whatnot. Finally, after three years, Rose happened to mention that the Bible Wheel was not as perfect as I thought it was, and that prompted me to seriously examine my best evidence, and it all came tumbling down. I realized I had deluded myself with classic cognitive errors such as selection bias (cherry picking) and confirmation bias.

    So I guess I could be described as an open-minded rational skeptic atheist who has debunked ten thousand supernatural claims, not the least of which were my own.

    I trust you will take this as just the starting point of our discussion. Please don't leap to any conclusions without asking first.

    I look forward to our discussion.

    Richard

    PS: This is an open thread, so I hope others will jump in with their questions too.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Hi David,

    I appreciate your respectful approach. I've gone through a lot of changes over the past few years, so you are wise to ask for my current status.

    .
    Thanks Richard, for answering, as that would have taken some time...

    And it was done respectfully.

    Me, I am and was a missionary type, right after graduation....

    So I am both scientific, or got truly scientific and exploring the mysteries after getting grounded in the dos and do nots, of missionary work on the field.

    Hence I am into personal testing and verification, and knowing where it isnt at as well as where it is at...not through visions, and signs much, but personal direct verification, experiences and results.. I am just not into theory but practise and results and progress.

    Hence I studied sacred geomtery by chance, the Golden Section and discovered the dark side stole the Lords secrets, and yet can be brought back and given credit to HIM< and extrapolated beyond for our good.... and empowernment...knowledge is power.

    And true faith in true principles can build one precept by precept.

    This might help to clarify some of my postings...

    Cant for the life of me figure out the mathematics of some posters when they cant explain what the heck they are doing or why.... join things up folks or it makes no sense..

    Thanks Richard..our Happy Host, even though I will respectfully surely disagree with you on most accounts, except debunking the Bible Wheel or whatever that thing is, if I ever figured it out, surely I also could help you debunk that wheel. Maybe the first step as mentioned is dropping the whole so called Bible and stick to prophecy direct words, rather than Paulian words, Lamentation words, etc etc....

    IHS

    David

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidjayjordan View Post
    Thanks Richard..our Happy Host, even though I will respectfully surely disagree with you on most accounts, except debunking the Bible Wheel or whatever that thing is, if I ever figured it out, surely I also could help you debunk that wheel. Maybe the first step as mentioned is dropping the whole so called Bible and stick to prophecy direct words, rather than Paulian words, Lamentation words, etc etc....
    David,

    I appreciate your thoughtful response. And I agree that we will disagree with each other on many points. But if we boil it down, I believe we will both see that the only place we actually disagree are on your beliefs that you cannot justify with logic and facts. It will be very interesting to dig deep with you into the truth of your claims, if you are interested.

    I think you have suggested a very important starting point. When you say "stick to prophecy" as apposed to "Paulian words" are you rejecting parts of the Bible as "God's Word"? If so, we need to establish which parts of the Bible we should respect as "God's word" and which not.

    And we need to establish what is "prophecy" and what is not. There are many places in the Bible where certain passages are called "prophecy" when in fact they were not. E.g.

    Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

    That quote is from Psalms.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    David,

    I appreciate your thoughtful response. And I agree that we will disagree with each other on many points. But if we boil it down, I believe we will both see that the only place we actually disagree are on your beliefs that you cannot justify with logic and facts. It will be very interesting to dig deep with you into the truth of your claims, if you are interested.

    I think you have suggested a very important starting point. When you say "stick to prophecy" as apposed to "Paulian words" are you rejecting parts of the Bible as "God's Word"? If so, we need to establish which parts of the Bible we should respect as "God's word" and which not.

    And we need to establish what is "prophecy" and what is not. There are many places in the Bible where certain passages are called "prophecy" when in fact they were not. E.g.

    Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

    That quote is from Psalms.
    You dtermine what is the Word of God, Richard..others do not do that for you. You are personally responsible for selection and knowing.

    First of all, few patriarchs or past brethren whether Christian or Jewish (Christians...who believed in the Messiah to come) had much Bible.... I mean Word of God. They might have a book at the most, like the enuch from Ethipopia and yet valued it immensely and wanted to knwo more, and more and more.

    Its not how much words you believe are from the Lord, but how much you received what you have read...OR more importantly how much you obey the Holy Spirit that has continually been teaching you in your mind and heart since birth. No one is exempt from her WORDS, direct words. The written word is actually secondary, as the Lords Spirit or Rauch speaks all the time to every person alive, from birth..... all are therefore responsible to that degree and its a HUGE MAJOR degree.

    Intellectuals dont get truths from mere book learning, Its not a damnable church study group that gets enlightened, its thopse that test and prove what the Holy Spirit states and tell sthem to do, what the RED LETTER < direct prophecy principles and statements tell one to do, as they walk the walk and obey or disobey the Lords WORDS and SPIRIT.

    The perverted self righteous church people and religious types, think the great ones are cemetery semininarians from monasteries and church colleges and personal english derivation studies. NO, you have to hear, and KNOW and OBEY the truths, to find and test out the truths.

    Bible code and Bible whell follows the ridficuolous church interpretation of Every word of God is pure and sacrosanct...from the New Testament.... This being how they elevate Pauls personal words and opinions into holy scripture, which must be obeyed.

    Ridicuolous Paul didn;t say...THUS SAITH THE LORD, he stated this is my opinion only.. This is why Pauls words are sometimes valid, sometyimes horribly wrong and outrageously unChristian and totally against what Jesus stated and lived.

    You determine, morality and principles yourself Richard.. Everyone has that responsibility according to your own choices and values. No one can blame others for what they personally holdf as true and valid.....

    Jesus said FOLLOW HIM. True Christianity is not a following of a priesthood or clergy or religious scribe and pharisee, its following Jesus. Connect up with fellow believers and even so called non believers who follow love principles, whatever, just know the principles you follow and obey love til the end...

    http://www.davidjayjordan.com/PaulversusJesus.html

    Choose a topic and the answers are there, or I might summarize for ya.

    What verses are prophetic... Prophecy, direct prophecy, TUS SAITH THE LORD prophecy... sometimes RED LETTER EDITIONS show prophecy and can be helpful.

    You can read it all, I mean the Protestant new Canon of 66, reject the contradictions of Paul and others, Read other books and see which ones are valid, and which ones the churchies threw out of their washed down versions, and do the hard work of establishing your groundwork....precept by precept.... AFTER you have established your base, foundation fo knowing the Lord personnally.

    http://www.davidjayjordan.com/Jesus.html

    David

    PS) Jesus parables contain secrets and principles and truths, they are not based on false assumptions, so called myths etc.... They are tracebale to verifying truths elsewhere in all his writers...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidjayjordan View Post
    You dtermine what is the Word of God, Richard..others do not do that for you. You are personally responsible for selection and knowing.
    How is that different than just making up your own religion? And how is anyone supposed to discern between their own imagination and "knowing" what really is God's word? Muslims and Mormons think they know God's word. What advice would you give them to help them see the error of their ways?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #6
    I am a bit curious about a couple of aspects of your life & belief. So I am going to ask you some questions.

    Since I have joined this most interesting site, I had to notice your fascination with the occult & spirituality.
    Since you have Topics of this forum named:
    - Cosciousness Research
    - Cosmology
    - Wisdom of the Sacred Feminine
    - Psychedelia

    First of you seem to be very interesting in several things. I would guess that you were very interested in
    New Age/Occult/Spirituality when looking at those topics.
    The thing that puzzles me is that you made this site as a Christian. And those are not Christian topics.
    But maybe you included them in appeal for free speech for all I know.

    But have you had any experience with any movements in Spirituality, the occult or new age before you became a Christian ?
    Have you ever had any supernatural experiences ?
    And what do you think about UFO's / Aliens ?
    Last edited by Desmild; 09-29-2017 at 08:27 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    How is that different than just making up your own religion? And how is anyone supposed to discern between their own imagination and "knowing" what really is God's word? Muslims and Mormons think they know God's word. What advice would you give them to help them see the error of their ways?
    You are responsible to have and make the discernment yourself...Richard. Everyone has to buck up and grow up and take the responsibility for their own choices. Thats the law of the Lord, as He isn;t into whimps and whoosies, and complainers and excusers.

    Most people do this, so be it, thats their choice.

    If they have not listened to the Holy Spirit that has been whispering and talking to them from birth, if they haven;t heard her VOICE as they traveled up the Coastline trails in His/Her Creation, so be it...that doesn;t negate the Lord, but their hearing ability.

    If they haven;t tested and tried out the Lords principles and gotten real life experience through actual EXPERIENCE to establish their discernment, again that is not the Lords fault but their own.

    So my advice is that they first get real and stop looking for excuses, and realise that discerning the Creators Voice and principles is not based on what others think or believe, or how they act, but on an INDIVIDUAL SEARCH, so that their faith and belief and thinking system is based on their own experience, so that when all is said and done, they personally will KNOW through actual experience that what they believe is their own, and not based on others.

    As Jesus said... test and see, taste and tell, study and learn, experience..

    "If ye do my Will then you will know of the doctrine, whether it be of God or others'.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    1

    Post -deleted-

    never mind - not needing public discussion - not seeing a way to delete - still thanks!
    Last edited by marcege; 03-14-2019 at 10:14 AM. Reason: never mind - not needing public discussion - not seeing a way to delete - still thanks!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1

    Hi. Hope you get this

    Hi Mr. Richard Im Shekinah and Im 24 and ive never used a forum before (this will explain a lot of future questions lol) not really sure how to message u personally but i would very much like to speak with you concerning these numbers i have I hope you can give me some sort of clarification or explanation to them. Im not too sure if this is what you do. But brief description I discovered that my 40 digit number goes into a wheel (not sure what kind lol i have no clue) the sum of its digits is 154 and half of the wheel is 77 exactly and half of that is 38 & 39 and it does the same on both sides even tho the digits aren't the same and there are no 5's nor 0's in the 40 digits.. I stumbled o. Your website and now im trying to contact u. I hope u respond. I have questions. I dont care what your faith is if thats of any importance but i do believe the god i pray to (jesus) gave them to me. & i do feel that you can be of some assistance since i was led to you biblewheel website.... Hope to hear from you



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Hi David,

    I appreciate your respectful approach. I've gone through a lot of changes over the past few years, so you are wise to ask for my current status.

    Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to simply state a "status" - since there are too many aspects and nuances. There's not much value in using labels like "atheist" or "skeptic" or whatever since those terms carry a lot of baggage and mean different things to different people. But we really can't discuss anything without the use of labels, so I'll toss out a few that might help get the conversation going in the right direction. Then we can clarify things as the discussion progresses.

    I call myself an atheist because I am not a theist. But this can lead to confusion, since some people think "atheism" means the assertion "There is no god" as opposed to merely not believing in any god. There's a big difference between "I believe there is no god" vs. I do not believe there is a god." I do not claim that there is no god, since there could be one I know nothing about, but I do claim that I have sufficient justification to reject all the gods that have been proposed (e.g. Allah, Krishna, Yahweh, Zeus, etc.).

    One of the biggest changes came when I quit my habit of "magical thinking." I used to interpret everything as a sort of "sign" from God. It started back in the days of my "Vision Quest" after I quit college and road my bike down the West Coast from Seattle to LA and back. And then I went to a Rainbow Gathering and hitchhiked across the county, having many adventures and meeting people with all sorts of metaphysical beliefs. I began to use the I Ching and took an interest in Astrology and Tarot, which led to the Kabbalah and then to the Bible. I explain how this happened in my blog article Debunking Myself: What A Long Strange Trip It's Been.

    I wouldn't use the term "Bible Code" to describe the patterns I found because that term typically refers to Equidistant Letter Sequences which never impressed me.

    It's also important to not that your description of what happened is out of sequence. I rejected Christianity before, not after, debunking the Bible Wheel. This is a very important difference. I did not quit Christianity because of debunking the Bible Wheel. On the contrary, I quit Christianity in 2011 because the Bible is flawed and God cannot be trusted (as explained in my article Why I Quit Christianity). It took me another three years to get the clarity of mind to debunk the Bible Wheel. It was a very strange time. I couldn't understand how the Bible could be false and yet contain the patterns I saw in the Bible Wheel. I explored a lot of possibilities, such as Jungian Archetypes (see the Bible Wheel as a Cosmic Mandala of Archetypal Wholeness), the product of evolution driven by a conscious or unconscious scribal selection process (see An Evolutionary Explanation of the Bible Wheel), and whatnot. Finally, after three years, Rose happened to mention that the Bible Wheel was not as perfect as I thought it was, and that prompted me to seriously examine my best evidence, and it all came tumbling down. I realized I had deluded myself with classic cognitive errors such as selection bias (cherry picking) and confirmation bias.

    So I guess I could be described as an open-minded rational skeptic atheist who has debunked ten thousand supernatural claims, not the least of which were my own.

    I trust you will take this as just the starting point of our discussion. Please don't leap to any conclusions without asking first.

    I look forward to our discussion.

    Richard

    PS: This is an open thread, so I hope others will jump in with their questions too.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    15,146
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekinah View Post
    Hi Mr. Richard Im Shekinah and Im 24 and ive never used a forum before (this will explain a lot of future questions lol) not really sure how to message u personally but i would very much like to speak with you concerning these numbers i have I hope you can give me some sort of clarification or explanation to them. Im not too sure if this is what you do. But brief description I discovered that my 40 digit number goes into a wheel (not sure what kind lol i have no clue) the sum of its digits is 154 and half of the wheel is 77 exactly and half of that is 38 & 39 and it does the same on both sides even tho the digits aren't the same and there are no 5's nor 0's in the 40 digits.. I stumbled o. Your website and now im trying to contact u. I hope u respond. I have questions. I dont care what your faith is if thats of any importance but i do believe the god i pray to (jesus) gave them to me. & i do feel that you can be of some assistance since i was led to you biblewheel website.... Hope to hear from you
    Hi Shekinah,

    Good to meet you.

    I've elevated your membership status so you can start your own thread and ask any questions you like. I will answer there. Let me know if you have any problems.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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