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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    3

    Dear Richard

    i stumbled upon your website for the first time today and i was quite shocked that i hadn't found it earlier as i have been doing similar research to the bible wheel for a few years now.

    we have a lot in common regarding our spiritual walks although we have different backgrounds. And may i also commend you on the fact that even though you choose not to relate to Christianity anymore, your patience in dealing with all the visitors to your site that are trying to "evangelize you" and "save you" is amazing.


    first allow me to give you a little background about myself.

    while i don't have the background you do regarding science and math, i also came (back) into the bible seeking out information regarding technology and logic. i say back because i abandoned "christianity" for similar reasons like yours which we can discuss at another time, or feel free to ask. After having drifted through many different denominations i was always looking for that "feeling" of God, only to be disappointed. At some point in my life, while searching for answers, i was looking for that "grand unified field theory" and while studying different conspiracies i realized that all roads led to Nikola Tesla. So i started reading all the Tesla articles and the autobiography when he mentions that he found the answer to a problem he was seeking regarding an invention of his inthe book of revelation. so i picked up my bible after 10 years, wondering what the most accomplished human being of all time saw in the bible, that i, who used to be a church minister, missed. But lo and behold, there it was in chapter 4, the "throne of God" which in Tesla's mind gave him the schematic to his machine. i was intrigued, to say the least, wondering what other techno bits i'd missed. so i decided to go back into the bible from the beginning and read it in the source languages to extract whatever i can from it. It's been over 6 years now and i am still discovering things. but, to be honest, it burned me out this year, triggering a manic attack (i've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder). So i am taking the time to reassess some things. and here we are.

    So since this is a thread where you have given the world permission to ask you anything, (and please bear in mind that i haven't gone through your extensive database as it REALLY is a lot, so i apologize if you've already covered this) i'd like to ask you the following:

    1)Do you think it's possible that your understanding of the bible is wrong? I discovered that early on i was reading the bible with false preconceptions that drastically altered the significance of the literature of the books. it was only by exorcising Western understandings that the pieces started falling into place, at least, for me.

    2) while looking at your work with the bible wheel, a lot of your findings are in fact quite accurate as i have come to similar findings. Seeing as the actual data IS there, haven't you thought that your theory in unifying the data could be wrong? i only suggest this because, at least from what i've read so far, you started out strong in actually getting the data, but perhaps, because of your scientific background, your thesis was a bit lacking. i am not trying to stomp on your work, far from it. i think that the work you've done is TRULY inspired, and i believe i can even put up a good argument as to why!

    3) After reading your account of your experience with Christianity, ( i really dislike the word Christian btw), have you given considered that your ultimate understanding of God was clouded by yuor past experiences? Reading your stuff here on your site, while i see that the info you unlocked is truly vast, even if it is selective as you state, i haven't really read anywhere WHY you think/thought those numerical patterns were in scripture. they wouldn't just be there to BE there. for my own personal walk, my background is detective work using progressive logic, so i really focused on filling in pieces of the historical puzzle in order to have a clear and linear picture of the things that happened, and then tried to put the WHY together. this really helped clear up a lot of the similar issues that you have stated.

    4) why did you feel imprisoned by your beliefs and faith?

    i think that's it for now. i hope that i am not being to burdensome, but you and i are not the only people that have stumbled upon the geometric patterns of the Logos. but you are the first person that has rejected what he discovered. and i find that puzzling. if/when you get some time to answer it will be greatly appreciated. and i am also interested in purchasing one of your books shipped to Cyprus if you still have any.
    Thank you for your time.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by LogoS View Post
    i stumbled upon your website for the first time today and i was quite shocked that i hadn't found it earlier as i have been doing similar research to the bible wheel for a few years now.

    we have a lot in common regarding our spiritual walks although we have different backgrounds. And may i also commend you on the fact that even though you choose not to relate to Christianity anymore, your patience in dealing with all the visitors to your site that are trying to "evangelize you" and "save you" is amazing.


    first allow me to give you a little background about myself.

    while i don't have the background you do regarding science and math, i also came (back) into the bible seeking out information regarding technology and logic. i say back because i abandoned "christianity" for similar reasons like yours which we can discuss at another time, or feel free to ask. After having drifted through many different denominations i was always looking for that "feeling" of God, only to be disappointed. At some point in my life, while searching for answers, i was looking for that "grand unified field theory" and while studying different conspiracies i realized that all roads led to Nikola Tesla. So i started reading all the Tesla articles and the autobiography when he mentions that he found the answer to a problem he was seeking regarding an invention of his inthe book of revelation. so i picked up my bible after 10 years, wondering what the most accomplished human being of all time saw in the bible, that i, who used to be a church minister, missed. But lo and behold, there it was in chapter 4, the "throne of God" which in Tesla's mind gave him the schematic to his machine. i was intrigued, to say the least, wondering what other techno bits i'd missed. so i decided to go back into the bible from the beginning and read it in the source languages to extract whatever i can from it. It's been over 6 years now and i am still discovering things. but, to be honest, it burned me out this year, triggering a manic attack (i've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder). So i am taking the time to reassess some things. and here we are.
    Hey there Logos,

    It's good to meet you. Welcome to our forum!



    I don't have time to answer much right now, as it is the beginning of my work day. But here's a few quick answers to get the conversation going.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogoS View Post
    1)Do you think it's possible that your understanding of the bible is wrong? I discovered that early on i was reading the bible with false preconceptions that drastically altered the significance of the literature of the books. it was only by exorcising Western understandings that the pieces started falling into place, at least, for me.
    I can't answer yes or no since I don't really have a single "understanding of the Bible" as such. But I do have an understanding about some claims people have made about the Bible, such as the belief that it is the "inerrant and infallible Word of God." I am quite confident that belief is wrong. But there could be all sorts of "mysterious" or "unknown" aspects to the Bible. As the product of a collective effort spanning centuries, it certainly does reveal a lot about he human psyche. And I don't reject the possibility that it could be "mysterious" in a spiritual sense, such as a manifestation of "universal consciousness" or Jungian archetypes, or whatever. I used to be very interested in such things, but not so much these days. Mostly because I went overboard with "magical thinking" and have been on a corrective swing of the pendulum towards skepticism, rationality, and objective thinking. Of course, the thing about pendulums is that they keep swinging until some sort of resistance slows them down. I think I'm in the process of that. The ultimate goal will be to come to rest in alignment with the gravitational field (a metaphor for reality). It's rather a meditational, Buddhist kind of thing, or Taoist. Effortless action. Stillness in alignment with Reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogoS View Post
    2) while looking at your work with the bible wheel, a lot of your findings are in fact quite accurate as i have come to similar findings. Seeing as the actual data IS there, haven't you thought that your theory in unifying the data could be wrong? i only suggest this because, at least from what i've read so far, you started out strong in actually getting the data, but perhaps, because of your scientific background, your thesis was a bit lacking. i am not trying to stomp on your work, far from it. i think that the work you've done is TRULY inspired, and i believe i can even put up a good argument as to why!
    It's certainly true that the "data IS there" - but that doesn't mean all the data supported my theory. This was the problem - much of the evidence I used in my effort to prove the objective validity of the pattern was based on a cherry picked subset of the data. I tried to avoid this but failed in many cases. But you are correct, there could be a "legitimate" pattern with real meaning that can't be justified with the methods I was using. That's the problem with "meaning" - it has both objective and subjective aspects. Perhaps I erred in my effort to prove my subjective perception and interpretation with objective irrefutable arguments. If, for example, the Bible is some sort of expression of archetypes, it could be entirely wrongheaded to attempt to prove that in terms of objective scientific categories. Seems like a fertile area for discourse.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogoS View Post
    3) After reading your account of your experience with Christianity, ( i really dislike the word Christian btw), have you given considered that your ultimate understanding of God was clouded by yuor past experiences? Reading your stuff here on your site, while i see that the info you unlocked is truly vast, even if it is selective as you state, i haven't really read anywhere WHY you think/thought those numerical patterns were in scripture. they wouldn't just be there to BE there. for my own personal walk, my background is detective work using progressive logic, so i really focused on filling in pieces of the historical puzzle in order to have a clear and linear picture of the things that happened, and then tried to put the WHY together. this really helped clear up a lot of the similar issues that you have stated.
    It is impossible to say whether my "past experiences" clouded or enlightened my "understanding of God" since some of those experiences were ecstatic visions and personal synchronicities while others were dogmas imported from other humans.

    As for why the patterns were there - I thought there were two main reasons. First, it was because the patterns revealed the "thoughts of God" which I always understood as "archetypes." I saw a strong analogy between God's "two books", Nature, and the Bible. Since the one is mathematically structured, it made sense that the other would be too.

    Second, I thought it was designed as "proof" that the Bible really was the "Word of God" even though God designed it to appear to be defective. The first reason was based on my personal experience and insight. The second reason came from dogmas to which I had inadvertently submitted myself and internalized. They were never really my "own." They infected my mind and destroyed whatever value there may have been in my studies, and ultimately led me to abandon Christianity and the study of the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogoS View Post
    4) why did you feel imprisoned by your beliefs and faith?
    I felt "imprisoned" because they were external dogmas that I had internalized. They were not authentic to my own knowing. I compromised my own beliefs to fit in with what I thought Christians were supposed to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogoS View Post
    i think that's it for now. i hope that i am not being to burdensome, but you and i are not the only people that have stumbled upon the geometric patterns of the Logos. but you are the first person that has rejected what he discovered. and i find that puzzling. if/when you get some time to answer it will be greatly appreciated. and i am also interested in purchasing one of your books shipped to Cyprus if you still have any.
    Thank you for your time.
    Burdensome? Not at all! I really appreciate your comments. I enjoy discussing these things and it really helps me work out my own thoughts. Thanks!

    As for my rejection of the patterns - some of them remain quite intriguing and not easily rejected. But the whole study became suspect because my integrity had become corrupted with false beliefs from external sources. My wholesale rejection was necessary to "clean house." Perhaps I went a bit overboard. Time will tell.

    As for the book - yes, I have a copy, but it is rather expensive to ship overseas. And just so you know, it doesn't contain any gematria (which seems to be your primary interest). You can download a free PDF. Just Google it.

    Great chatting!

    Richard

    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    3
    Thank you so much for your prompt response Richard. It's very pleasant to be here. )))

    I wonder if you are familiar with nassim haramein. To a large extent I agree with his interpretation of dimensions, but what I love about his work is how he explains his example of the relationship between infinity and finite boundaries using geometry. Tha really stuck with me, not so much the lesson but the actual language of geometry... I believe (yes it is just my belief) that there are in fact 3 divine languages: Hebrew, Greek, and yes geometry. All 3 have numbers as the underlying code of the letters, geometry of course being the most versatile simply by the amount of information one can communicate using it as a language. And all 3 are present in the Bible, funny enough. If you have time, I'd really like to talk about this with you some more. I'd make myself available to you whenever you can.

    Please don't think I'm trying to "convert" you or anything. I do believe I may have some answers for you as I think with your wealth of knowledge there's a few things I'd like to pick you brain about too))).
    One thing I'd like to share with you, just to show you what I mean, is the meaning of the word bless. What do you think it means? It is obviously a very important word regarding the Bible. But I believe the true meaning of the word is lost in English.

    In Greek, the word is ev-logia. It literally means to receive logic. It puts a huge spin on the understanding of God giving logic to Adam when he created mankind, doesn't it? 😋


    All the best to you brother. Have a great day at work

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by LogoS View Post
    Thank you so much for your prompt response Richard. It's very pleasant to be here. )))

    I wonder if you are familiar with nassim haramein. To a large extent I agree with his interpretation of dimensions, but what I love about his work is how he explains his example of the relationship between infinity and finite boundaries using geometry. Tha really stuck with me, not so much the lesson but the actual language of geometry... I believe (yes it is just my belief) that there are in fact 3 divine languages: Hebrew, Greek, and yes geometry. All 3 have numbers as the underlying code of the letters, geometry of course being the most versatile simply by the amount of information one can communicate using it as a language. And all 3 are present in the Bible, funny enough. If you have time, I'd really like to talk about this with you some more. I'd make myself available to you whenever you can.

    Please don't think I'm trying to "convert" you or anything. I do believe I may have some answers for you as I think with your wealth of knowledge there's a few things I'd like to pick you brain about too))).
    One thing I'd like to share with you, just to show you what I mean, is the meaning of the word bless. What do you think it means? It is obviously a very important word regarding the Bible. But I believe the true meaning of the word is lost in English.

    In Greek, the word is ev-logia. It literally means to receive logic. It puts a huge spin on the understanding of God giving logic to Adam when he created mankind, doesn't it? 😋


    All the best to you brother. Have a great day at work
    Hey there Logos,

    I have a minute while a program is updating.

    I've heard a bit about Nassim but never really looked into his theories. Do you have a good example of his explanation of the geometric relation between infinity and finite boundaries? Your words remind me of a video explaining hyperbolic geometry I saw years ago. It shows how viewing the projection of a finite 3D sphere onto a 2D surface reveals the underlying unity of the geometry.





    As for eu-logia, I think that literally means "good word". It seems to me that the concept of logos as logic derives from it's more basic meaning as "word."

    Well, gotta get back to work.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    3
    Hey Richard

    https://youtu.be/zDbShzYjqNQ

    This one is pretty good.

    Regarding ev-logia, logos actually has a parallel meaning, one being the word but also meaning reason. Ev means to receive or to give, basically the act of passing on.

    Regarding dimensions, that's pretty spot on. It's when you start to dig deeper into those dimensions that the numbers show up. If that's the case with geometry and also Hebrew and Greek languages, I believe this is a significant connection.

    Gotta go as well bro. Hope to speak soon

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    1

    Post -deleted-

    never mind - not needing public discussion - not seeing a way to delete - still thanks!
    Last edited by marcege; 03-14-2019 at 10:14 AM. Reason: never mind - not needing public discussion - not seeing a way to delete - still thanks!

  7. #27
    Unregistered Guest

    Word

    Ask you anything....i dont know where to look or who to ask....im looking for a Hebrew word and don't know if it exist....but the letters are as follows in Hebrew format

    Cheth+mem+Lamed

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1

    Hi. Hope you get this

    Hi Mr. Richard Im Shekinah and Im 24 and ive never used a forum before (this will explain a lot of future questions lol) not really sure how to message u personally but i would very much like to speak with you concerning these numbers i have I hope you can give me some sort of clarification or explanation to them. Im not too sure if this is what you do. But brief description I discovered that my 40 digit number goes into a wheel (not sure what kind lol i have no clue) the sum of its digits is 154 and half of the wheel is 77 exactly and half of that is 38 & 39 and it does the same on both sides even tho the digits aren't the same and there are no 5's nor 0's in the 40 digits.. I stumbled o. Your website and now im trying to contact u. I hope u respond. I have questions. I dont care what your faith is if thats of any importance but i do believe the god i pray to (jesus) gave them to me. & i do feel that you can be of some assistance since i was led to you biblewheel website.... Hope to hear from you



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Hi David,

    I appreciate your respectful approach. I've gone through a lot of changes over the past few years, so you are wise to ask for my current status.

    Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to simply state a "status" - since there are too many aspects and nuances. There's not much value in using labels like "atheist" or "skeptic" or whatever since those terms carry a lot of baggage and mean different things to different people. But we really can't discuss anything without the use of labels, so I'll toss out a few that might help get the conversation going in the right direction. Then we can clarify things as the discussion progresses.

    I call myself an atheist because I am not a theist. But this can lead to confusion, since some people think "atheism" means the assertion "There is no god" as opposed to merely not believing in any god. There's a big difference between "I believe there is no god" vs. I do not believe there is a god." I do not claim that there is no god, since there could be one I know nothing about, but I do claim that I have sufficient justification to reject all the gods that have been proposed (e.g. Allah, Krishna, Yahweh, Zeus, etc.).

    One of the biggest changes came when I quit my habit of "magical thinking." I used to interpret everything as a sort of "sign" from God. It started back in the days of my "Vision Quest" after I quit college and road my bike down the West Coast from Seattle to LA and back. And then I went to a Rainbow Gathering and hitchhiked across the county, having many adventures and meeting people with all sorts of metaphysical beliefs. I began to use the I Ching and took an interest in Astrology and Tarot, which led to the Kabbalah and then to the Bible. I explain how this happened in my blog article Debunking Myself: What A Long Strange Trip It's Been.

    I wouldn't use the term "Bible Code" to describe the patterns I found because that term typically refers to Equidistant Letter Sequences which never impressed me.

    It's also important to not that your description of what happened is out of sequence. I rejected Christianity before, not after, debunking the Bible Wheel. This is a very important difference. I did not quit Christianity because of debunking the Bible Wheel. On the contrary, I quit Christianity in 2011 because the Bible is flawed and God cannot be trusted (as explained in my article Why I Quit Christianity). It took me another three years to get the clarity of mind to debunk the Bible Wheel. It was a very strange time. I couldn't understand how the Bible could be false and yet contain the patterns I saw in the Bible Wheel. I explored a lot of possibilities, such as Jungian Archetypes (see the Bible Wheel as a Cosmic Mandala of Archetypal Wholeness), the product of evolution driven by a conscious or unconscious scribal selection process (see An Evolutionary Explanation of the Bible Wheel), and whatnot. Finally, after three years, Rose happened to mention that the Bible Wheel was not as perfect as I thought it was, and that prompted me to seriously examine my best evidence, and it all came tumbling down. I realized I had deluded myself with classic cognitive errors such as selection bias (cherry picking) and confirmation bias.

    So I guess I could be described as an open-minded rational skeptic atheist who has debunked ten thousand supernatural claims, not the least of which were my own.

    I trust you will take this as just the starting point of our discussion. Please don't leap to any conclusions without asking first.

    I look forward to our discussion.

    Richard

    PS: This is an open thread, so I hope others will jump in with their questions too.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yakima, Wa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shekinah View Post
    Hi Mr. Richard Im Shekinah and Im 24 and ive never used a forum before (this will explain a lot of future questions lol) not really sure how to message u personally but i would very much like to speak with you concerning these numbers i have I hope you can give me some sort of clarification or explanation to them. Im not too sure if this is what you do. But brief description I discovered that my 40 digit number goes into a wheel (not sure what kind lol i have no clue) the sum of its digits is 154 and half of the wheel is 77 exactly and half of that is 38 & 39 and it does the same on both sides even tho the digits aren't the same and there are no 5's nor 0's in the 40 digits.. I stumbled o. Your website and now im trying to contact u. I hope u respond. I have questions. I dont care what your faith is if thats of any importance but i do believe the god i pray to (jesus) gave them to me. & i do feel that you can be of some assistance since i was led to you biblewheel website.... Hope to hear from you
    Hi Shekinah,

    Good to meet you.

    I've elevated your membership status so you can start your own thread and ask any questions you like. I will answer there. Let me know if you have any problems.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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