Google Ads

Google Ads

Bible Wheel Book

Google Ads

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,958

    Reigned with Christ for "a thousand" years, or "thousands" of years?

    Howdy again folks!

    This is something that needs to be pointed out. Dispensational and/or all Futurists insist on what they refer to as, "The Millennial Reign of Christ".

    First of all, this type of teaching is based on a poor translation of the Greek word Chillio (later Chillias) which without an actual quantifier, the word is plural. Peter uses the word in 2 Peter, "For a Day of the Lord is as "a" thousand years". The Greek word Peter uses is Chillia, which is singular and is quantified as an actual thousand (or 1,000) years. But John used Chillios (some later manuscripts use Chillias), which in either cases is plural without a quantifier, meaning Chillios or Chillias means thousands of years.

    Second of all, suggesting that Christ's reign is limited to a thousand, or even several thousand years is false. For Christ reigns forever and ever, and that without end. All futurists assume that Revelation 20 is denoting how long Christ would reign. But that is not what the text says. Revelation 20 only states that the three Saint group's (Saints who sat on thrones, Saints who were beheaded for their testimony of Jesus, and Saints who did not receive the mark of the Beast) came to life and reigned with Christ for thousands of years. The rest lived not again until the thousands of years are completed. This does not suggest that Christ's reign is limited to within the unspecified timeframe, but that the Saints who lived again would reign with Christ. Once the reigning of the Saints is completed during the thousands of years (Millenniums), satan is released to begin rebuilding his army for the final deception against the Church (city God loves, camp).

    These two points alone which are without dispute destroys the concept of the millennial reign of Christ and a fictional story of an earthly corporal reign of Christ on earth.

    Where did this idea come from?

    Based on the writings I've spent years reading, it appears to have begun by a man named Papias in the 2nd century. This Papias was a Bishop of a church in Hierapolis, in Phrygia not far from Laodicea (one of the seven churches of Asia) which was a lukewarm church, neither hot nor cold for Christ. Papias claims to have seen St. John the Apostle when he was a very young child, and claimed to have remembered many teachings of the Apostle John, who (according to him) passed verbal teachings on to Polycarp, who in turn passed the verbal teachings on to Papias. It must be noted that the John Papias was more likely referring to was John the Presbyter, and not John the Apostle.

    Papias started what was once known as "Chiliasm", that is, the belief that in the distant future from their perspective, Jesus would return to earth and set up a millennial kingdom in a future Jerusalem for a thousand years. He also stated that Jesus would grow tens of thousands of vines in order to fulfill his promise to the Apostles, "for I will not drink from the fruit of the vine until I drink it anew in My Kingdom". When Papias was questioned as to where he learned this strange teaching, he answered that it was not learned nor read, but passed down verbally from John, to Polycarp, and finally to him. Polycarp never mentioned any idea of Chiliasm in his writings; at least none that I've been able to find.

    A few others after Papias managed to get pulled into this strange teaching. Barnabas was one of them, also of the late 2nd century. But Barnabas did not teach what Papias taught; Barnabas relied mostly on the writings of Enoch, and taught that in 6,000 years, Jesus would return and set an eternal rest of God for all the Saints. Unfortunately, based on the dating Barnabas uses, this would have been fulfilled shortly after the 11th century. This did not happen, and so Barnabas was clearly wrong.

    Then Irenaeus briefly mentions this teaching, although again not as elaborate as Papias. There were a few others after him, but not many accepted this type of eschatology. Finally by the 3rd century, the Churches in their unanimous agreement banned any further teaching of this heresy, and Chiliasm died. St. Eusebius of the 3rd century praised Papias for the most part, but then criticized Papias lack of apparent Biblical knowledge, not knowing that what Christ said about the fruit of the vine was allegoric, and not literal. Eusebius was probably the first early church father to teach what would then be recognized as "realized eschatology", although there were fathers before him who taught and understood a form of Preterism. Julius Africanus of the 2nd century was one such early church father.

    In the 14th century, when Martin Luther split from the Roman Catholic Church, he too opposed any idea of a future return of Christ on earth. During the Spanish Inquisition, many thought of the Roman Catholic Church as the Beast of Revelation. So the RCC used the Jesuits to concoct two explanations of Revelation: Full Preterism and Dispensationalism. Some try usurping the idea that this is when Preterism began. But elements of Preterism could be seen as far back as the 2nd century under Julius Africanus early church father. It wasn't until the 17th century that dispensationalism began to take roots in the United States. And since that time, our nation has been plagued with this false teaching. Thankfully, the truth (at least for the most part) is growing, and more and more people are beginning to see the fallacy and the stupidity of the futurist dogma.

    In conclusion, based on the actual greek word used in Revelation 20, "Chilloi", or "Chillias" in later manuscripts, the reign of the Saints is for thousands of years, while the reign of Christ is forever, and therefore destroys any idea of a future corporal reign of Christ.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Howdy again folks!

    This is something that needs to be pointed out. Dispensational and/or all Futurists insist on what they refer to as, "The Millennial Reign of Christ".

    First of all, this type of teaching is based on a poor translation of the Greek word Chillio (later Chillias) which without an actual quantifier, the word is plural. Peter uses the word in 2 Peter, "For a Day of the Lord is as "a" thousand years". The Greek word Peter uses is Chillia, which is singular and is quantified as an actual thousand (or 1,000) years. But John used Chillios (some later manuscripts use Chillias), which in either cases is plural without a quantifier, meaning Chillios or Chillias means thousands of years.

    Second of all, suggesting that Christ's reign is limited to a thousand, or even several thousand years is false. For Christ reigns forever and ever, and that without end. All futurists assume that Revelation 20 is denoting how long Christ would reign. But that is not what the text says. Revelation 20 only states that the three Saint group's (Saints who sat on thrones, Saints who were beheaded for their testimony of Jesus, and Saints who did not receive the mark of the Beast) came to life and reigned with Christ for thousands of years. The rest lived not again until the thousands of years are completed. This does not suggest that Christ's reign is limited to within the unspecified timeframe, but that the Saints who lived again would reign with Christ. Once the reigning of the Saints is completed during the thousands of years (Millenniums), satan is released to begin rebuilding his army for the final deception against the Church (city God loves, camp).

    These two points alone which are without dispute destroys the concept of the millennial reign of Christ and a fictional story of an earthly corporal reign of Christ on earth.

    Where did this idea come from?

    Based on the writings I've spent years reading, it appears to have begun by a man named Papias in the 2nd century. This Papias was a Bishop of a church in Hierapolis, in Phrygia not far from Laodicea (one of the seven churches of Asia) which was a lukewarm church, neither hot nor cold for Christ. Papias claims to have seen St. John the Apostle when he was a very young child, and claimed to have remembered many teachings of the Apostle John, who (according to him) passed verbal teachings on to Polycarp, who in turn passed the verbal teachings on to Papias. It must be noted that the John Papias was more likely referring to was John the Presbyter, and not John the Apostle.

    Papias started what was once known as "Chiliasm", that is, the belief that in the distant future from their perspective, Jesus would return to earth and set up a millennial kingdom in a future Jerusalem for a thousand years. He also stated that Jesus would grow tens of thousands of vines in order to fulfill his promise to the Apostles, "for I will not drink from the fruit of the vine until I drink it anew in My Kingdom". When Papias was questioned as to where he learned this strange teaching, he answered that it was not learned nor read, but passed down verbally from John, to Polycarp, and finally to him. Polycarp never mentioned any idea of Chiliasm in his writings; at least none that I've been able to find.

    A few others after Papias managed to get pulled into this strange teaching. Barnabas was one of them, also of the late 2nd century. But Barnabas did not teach what Papias taught; Barnabas relied mostly on the writings of Enoch, and taught that in 6,000 years, Jesus would return and set an eternal rest of God for all the Saints. Unfortunately, based on the dating Barnabas uses, this would have been fulfilled shortly after the 11th century. This did not happen, and so Barnabas was clearly wrong.

    Then Irenaeus briefly mentions this teaching, although again not as elaborate as Papias. There were a few others after him, but not many accepted this type of eschatology. Finally by the 3rd century, the Churches in their unanimous agreement banned any further teaching of this heresy, and Chiliasm died. St. Eusebius of the 3rd century praised Papias for the most part, but then criticized Papias lack of apparent Biblical knowledge, not knowing that what Christ said about the fruit of the vine was allegoric, and not literal. Eusebius was probably the first early church father to teach what would then be recognized as "realized eschatology", although there were fathers before him who taught and understood a form of Preterism. Julius Africanus of the 2nd century was one such early church father.

    In the 14th century, when Martin Luther split from the Roman Catholic Church, he too opposed any idea of a future return of Christ on earth. During the Spanish Inquisition, many thought of the Roman Catholic Church as the Beast of Revelation. So the RCC used the Jesuits to concoct two explanations of Revelation: Full Preterism and Dispensationalism. Some try usurping the idea that this is when Preterism began. But elements of Preterism could be seen as far back as the 2nd century under Julius Africanus early church father. It wasn't until the 17th century that dispensationalism began to take roots in the United States. And since that time, our nation has been plagued with this false teaching. Thankfully, the truth (at least for the most part) is growing, and more and more people are beginning to see the fallacy and the stupidity of the futurist dogma.

    In conclusion, based on the actual greek word used in Revelation 20, "Chilloi", or "Chillias" in later manuscripts, the reign of the Saints is for thousands of years, while the reign of Christ is forever, and therefore destroys any idea of a future corporal reign of Christ.

    Joe
    One thousand equals one thousand..a year equals a year

    Joe, you never give up trying to change exact scripture into meaningless nothingness so you have an excuse not to believe in prophecy and its exactness. Why because you dont know prophecy nor the design of prophecy.

    http://www.davidjayjordan.com/6000ye...hshistory.html

    http://www.davidjayjordan.com/1000YearDivisions.html



    You're boring Joe.....

    But do write up your lack of exactness and make it readable for others, so they can become un-exact and insecure, and doubting and in denial of the Lords exact words.

    Got to fly..

    Do notice there are only about ten people viewing HERE and not thousands.... maybe eight members and ten readers....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,958
    Quote Originally Posted by davidjayjordan View Post
    One thousand equals one thousand..a year equals a year

    Joe, you never give up trying to change exact scripture into meaningless nothingness so you have an excuse not to believe in prophecy and its exactness. Why because you dont know prophecy nor the design of prophecy.

    http://www.davidjayjordan.com/6000ye...hshistory.html

    http://www.davidjayjordan.com/1000YearDivisions.html



    You're boring Joe.....

    But do write up your lack of exactness and make it readable for others, so they can become un-exact and insecure, and doubting and in denial of the Lords exact words.

    Got to fly..

    Do notice there are only about ten people viewing HERE and not thousands.... maybe eight members and ten readers....
    Your IQ level must be very low. Chilloi or Chillias is not 1,000. The original word used by John was Chillias, meaning thousand(S) as in plural. Later manuscripts replaced Chillias with Chillois, and both are not quantified meaning John spoke of the risen Saints reigning for thousands of years. Additionally, in the sentence (English), "they came to life and reigned with Christ for "a" thousand years". The word "a" is not in the Greek text as that is an English conjunction for grammatical purposes. The correct translation is, "they came to life and reigned with Christ for thousands of years", aka, Millenniums, and not millennium. This has been known for a long time.

    And I'm sorry that the Kingdom of Christ bores you. This is how I know you are not a Christian. If I were to guess, you are a troll or online agitator. How much are you being paid?

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Your IQ level must be very low. Chilloi or Chillias is not 1,000. The original word used by John was Chillias, meaning thousand(S) as in plural. Later manuscripts replaced Chillias with Chillois, and both are not quantified meaning John spoke of the risen Saints reigning for thousands of years. Additionally, in the sentence (English), "they came to life and reigned with Christ for "a" thousand years". The word "a" is not in the Greek text as that is an English conjunction for grammatical purposes. The correct translation is, "they came to life and reigned with Christ for thousands of years", aka, Millenniums, and not millennium. This has been known for a long time.

    And I'm sorry that the Kingdom of Christ bores you. This is how I know you are not a Christian. If I were to guess, you are a troll or online agitator. How much are you being paid?

    Joe
    No Joe, nothingness bores me. Your lack of comprehension of the pattern and design of history bores me because you willingly and intentionally are trying to get people (ten people HERE...thank the Lord it is soooo few) to stop searching scriptures and prophecy, so that they get down to zero prepareness and zero understanding, and zero intelligence.......

    The 1,000 year periods have been from the start..... do read the exact timeframes from the past, exact as in exact.... and change your nothingness and inexactness accordingly.

    The Lord is exact and means exactly what He said....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,111
    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Your IQ level must be very low. Chilloi or Chillias is not 1,000. The original word used by John was Chillias, meaning thousand(S) as in plural. Later manuscripts replaced Chillias with Chillois, and both are not quantified meaning John spoke of the risen Saints reigning for thousands of years. Additionally, in the sentence (English), "they came to life and reigned with Christ for "a" thousand years". The word "a" is not in the Greek text as that is an English conjunction for grammatical purposes. The correct translation is, "they came to life and reigned with Christ for thousands of years", aka, Millenniums, and not millennium. This has been known for a long time.

    And I'm sorry that the Kingdom of Christ bores you. This is how I know you are not a Christian. If I were to guess, you are a troll or online agitator. How much are you being paid?

    Joe

    Hello Joe,
    I do not 'think' that davidjayjordan is really a troll... in the pure sense of that
    He seems to be one who wants to 'show' himself as a Biblical apologetic to others of his 'sect' of judaism... (a sect that came into being after the Holocaust of AD70)
    He knows that he has failed miserably and looks the fool and does not want too many of his sect to come on this board to be shown that they worship in vain.
    The sect that he seems to belong to has a sprinkling of Yahushua Messiah, But Fully stand on the Mosaic Cultus Covenant.
    They are not Christians of Light, but children of the Hebraic darkness and of their father of darkness. There is not life in them, only death, as they are and forever will be dead.
    Brother Les

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,958
    Quote Originally Posted by davidjayjordan View Post
    No Joe, nothingness bores me. Your lack of comprehension of the pattern and design of history bores me because you willingly and intentionally are trying to get people (ten people HERE...thank the Lord it is soooo few) to stop searching scriptures and prophecy, so that they get down to zero prepareness and zero understanding, and zero intelligence.......

    The 1,000 year periods have been from the start..... do read the exact timeframes from the past, exact as in exact.... and change your nothingness and inexactness accordingly.

    The Lord is exact and means exactly what He said....
    I just showed you exactness, but you ignore it. And you refuse to rebuttal the points I've made. Instead you insist on repeating your delusions and you reject Christ Jesus, the true Messiah.

    Going back to Chillia vs. Chilloi (or Chillias), here is your exactness:

    2 Peter 3:
    8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand (Chillia) years, and a thousand (Chillia) years are like a day.


    Peter quantifies the Greek word, "Chillia" to mean an actual thousand; no more, no less.

    But this is not the Greek word John used in Revelation. Here again is the verse in question:

    Revelation 20:
    2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand (Chilloi or Chillias in later manuscripts) years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand (Chilloi or Chillias in later manuscripts) years were ended.


    So then, Peter quantifies the Greek word "Chillia" to mean an actual thousand years. Johh, on the other hand, does not quantify the expression, "Chilloi" in some earlier manuscripts, and "Chillias" in later manuscripts, both which are plural, without an exact number. Thus, the sentence SHOULD read (as many modern Bible scholars are beginning to see):

    He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for Millenniums (note that this is plural). He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations (Gentile) anymore, until the Millenniums (plural) are completed.

    This makes perfect sense as well and shows that Christ and His Church (risen Saints) reign in the Kingdom of Christ (the promised Church) for several millenniums until the work of the Saints is completed. It is my belief that this represents the Church age from 70AD (when Christ married His new Bride after the old Bride was destroyed in 70AD). This is denoted in Revelation 19 with the invitation for the Saints to begin eating the flesh of kings, princes, etc. of the Roman nations. In other words, Revelation 19 is Christ and the Church overtaking the Beast (Rome), and killing the false Jewish Prophet (likely Simon the Magician who worked with Nero, as well as some of the Pharisees who also sided with the Emperors of Rome). Eventually, Rome is defeated and the Church gained control over the Roman Empire, along with the nation of Greece and the surrounding nations all throughout Europe.

    For several Millenniums (we are up to two Millenniums now) Jesus and the Church as reigned over the earth. But as with my belief, the Millennium does not happen between 30AD and 70AD as the Full Hyper Preterists believe; I believe this happens from 70AD til now. Satan was released a few centuries ago with the rise of the Zionists who started their reign in Khazaria, kicked out of there into Poland, again kicked out of there into Switzerland, England (three times they were kicked from there), Russia (where they began to gain real power), Germany (where many of them lost, but were still victorious), back to England, most of Europe, now the United States, and currently working on China, Syria, eventually Iran, and perhaps finally Saudi Arabia. These Khazarian fake Jews (who are not blood Jews, but converts from the 7th century) are imposters slandering the Lord God propagating themselves to be "God's chosen". These fake Jews, also known as Anti-Christ's, are the work/product of Satan's deception of the Gentile nations. As I've indicated once before, I thought Islam was this final enemy, but it is now very very clear that Zionism and its opposition to Christ Jesus is the final deceiver; Satan's final army. Their goal is to overtake the entire world, and subdue Christianity into a corner.

    Zionists have been responsible for the murders of millions and millions of Christians throughout the last 4 to 5 centuries, with a continued lust for more blood. They have invaded the ancient land of Israel and have promoted themselves as the true Jews, and have hijacked the identify of the Israeli people. Even the Torah Rabbi's oppose the Talmudic Zionists of Satan; not that the Rabbi's are any better. But the Torah believing Rabbi's in Israel fully oppose the Zionist take over of Palestine. My guess is you are part of them.

    Soon God's anger will fully expose these Zionists, and every single one of them will perish. I have no doubt in my mind at all. Once the Zionist kingdom of satan is gone, then the world will finally know peace. Every single war since the dark ages has been started by these zioncons, and were directly responsible for the last two World Wars. As the saying goes, "All wars are Bankers wars" and the global central banks are owned and controlled by these Khazarian false Jews.

    They will lose!

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,958
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    Hello Joe,
    I do not 'think' that davidjayjordan is really a troll... in the pure sense of that
    He seems to be one who wants to 'show' himself as a Biblical apologetic to others of his 'sect' of judaism... (a sect that came into being after the Holocaust of AD70)
    He knows that he has failed miserably and looks the fool and does not want too many of his sect to come on this board to be shown that they worship in vain.
    The sect that he seems to belong to has a sprinkling of Yahushua Messiah, But Fully stand on the Mosaic Cultus Covenant.
    They are not Christians of Light, but children of the Hebraic darkness and of their father of darkness. There is not life in them, only death, as they are and forever will be dead.
    Thanks for the heads up Brother LES. So then, he is just another one of those fake Jews. My question to these European Jews is why are they so white? According to many ancient paintings of Egypt when the Hebrews were slaves, the Hebrew slaves were denoted as having very dark skin, almost African American (or black, whatever the designation). Yet the modern day Europeans, after more than a millennium of inbreeding with the Gentile nations, have become predominately white. This means any chance of trying to connect themselves to the ancient Tribes of Israel is futile. No papers, no records, no Levitical priesthood to validate their Judaism, and therefore are nothing more than just another Gentile race, both spiritually and by the flesh. Today, there are no Tribes connected to ancient Israel. I of course know that Revelation 19 proves this, with the ancient false Jews (who were part of a Tribe but whom opposed Christ) were tossed into the sea of nations (Revelation 19) forever, and never to be found again...Never....never...never. That Israeli identity has long been disposed of, flushed away into the Gentile nations forever. And with more than 1,700 years of inbreeding, their bloodlines have been contaminated, and severed forever. Since 70AD, the only true Jews are those born from the Spirit of Christ, by becoming a Christian. We are the true circumcision, and we are the Judeans who worship not according to the Torah, and especially not the demonic Talmud, but according to the Holy Spirit of Jesus.

    It is no wonder why DavidjayJordan is an unbeliever. He is just another fake Jew; an imposter who works for the devil.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Les View Post
    Hello Joe,
    They are not Christians of Light, but children of the Hebraic darkness and of their father of darkness. There is not life in them, only death, as they are and forever will be dead.
    Brother Les, we are not of the night, but of the day... that that day should not overtake us unprepared ...as you two promote.



    You two, literally promote darkness and that people can not know and if anyone knows anything you call them 'dark'.... yo encourage your darkness of not knowing anything

  9. #9
    Thanks for confirming that you have nothing so you have to resort to calling me a devil...Why because I say people can know prophecy and trust in prophecy, and trust in the Lord of prophecy.

    All you pasties have is one event upcoming, the Great White Throne Judgment..... even the heathen know there is going to be a JUDGMENT DAY... so you are no more enlightened than them.

    Jesus wins, prophecy wins,

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,111
    David,
    there are well over 100 verses in the NT that point to that first century generation being the final generation of the Mosaic Cultus. That Cultus ended in AD70. There is no debate about that. The Hebrew writer states that as long as The Temple (that was standing at the time) it had Standing. ie. The Law and The Prophets were still in Full Force. When the Temple was destroyed, it no longer had Standing.... No more Law.... No more Prophecies.
    Last edited by Brother Les; 09-18-2017 at 10:33 AM.
    Brother Les

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •