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  1. #41
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    Oct 2008
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    Electricity is an elusive & deceptive little bass-tid

    Sometimes I actually wish I had never heard of the "electric universe" theory, since our physical world can change so quickly in an electric environment. And a change of paradigm from the relatively slow working and steady big bang model to an electric universe model where things are less predictable (at our present level of knowledge) will create a lot of social/scientific/political upheaval. The video from Suspicious Observers found here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV4JC2NfdR8 seems like a pretty hard-hitting attack on a lot of sacred cows. Dark matter gets it first. A major expert in the Dark Matter research field, Dr. Scott Dodelson says he doesn't expect their current way of looking at things to produce results, and he also expects that when an explanation is found, it won't involve conjuring up more mysterious substances. One thing pointed out for consideration by Ben Davidson in the video is how MACHOs get sidelined from the mix of explanations for the "missing matter" in the universe, but now we find out that there are a lot more red dwarfs and "rogue planets" than what is figured into the dark matter/normal matter equations? (3:11 - 4:00). From 4:23 - 8:35 the elusive characteristics of electric currents are addressed. Electric current comes and goes but it is not always easy to find when it is present and it often moves or changes things, and then subsides. Once that happens, there is no clear cut evidence to link cause and effect. The nearest thing to evidence is the high unlikelihood of anything else being the cause. From 8:35 - 10:00, 4 observations about the problematic current state of affairs are given and suggestions on how to proceed are offered. From 10:00 to the end, Mr. Davidson gives a few examples of why he feels qualified to speak out on topics dealing with physics/astrophysics, even though the closest to a scientific field of study listed on his bio here - http://www.suspicious0bservers.org/about-faq/ is studying meteorology at Penn State. But he is a lawyer, and trained to look at evidence, using reason and logic to come to conclusions. Given that we had a 5% success rate in documenting the electric currents coming off of Enceladus' plumes, and the implications that follow if we are missing that much (or more) when looking outside our solar system, I think a lot of people have the right to say that some of the money being poured into dark matter research should be directed to alternatives like those proposed by the "electric universe" folks.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    Sometimes I actually wish I had never heard of the "electric universe" theory, since our physical world can change so quickly in an electric environment. And a change of paradigm from the relatively slow working and steady big bang model to an electric universe model where things are less predictable (at our present level of knowledge) will create a lot of social/scientific/political upheaval.
    You would have been much more informed had you ignored the electric universe quack theory.




    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    The video from Suspicious Observers found here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV4JC2NfdR8 seems like a pretty hard-hitting attack on a lot of sacred cows.
    Not even close. The Big Bang has been reinforced by recent new data. I'll get to that below.


    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    Dark matter gets it first. A major expert in the Dark Matter research field, Dr. Scott Dodelson says he doesn't expect their current way of looking at things to produce results, and he also expects that when an explanation is found, it won't involve conjuring up more mysterious substances.
    These comments are very misleading. They do not represent Dr. Scott Dodelson's recent findings, nor do they support your assertions in the proper context.

    They recently had a discussion from which those Dr. Scott Dodelson quotes came from. http://www.kavlifoundation.org/scien...g-theory-trial

    A NEW COSMIC MAP was unveiled in August, plotting where the mysterious substance called dark matter is clumped across the universe. To immense relief?and frustration?the map is just what scientists had expected. The distribution of dark matter agrees with our current understanding of a universe born with certain properties in a Big Bang, 13.8 billion years ago.

    You need to read the whole article to understand the context in which Dr. Dodelson is speaking. Neither the data or Dr. Dodelson's comment support your assertions.

    Here is the website that outlines Dr. Dodelson's work. https://www.darkenergysurvey.org/des...esults-papers/

    And here is the paper from which the data come from. https://arxiv.org/abs/1708.01535



    Here is a map shows the dark matter distribution(from Dodelson's work) over about 1/30th of the entire sky. The data come from gravitational lensing measurements of 26 million galaxies. Red shows regions containing more dark matter than the average; blue shows regions with less.

    Name:  Y1-massmap.png
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    One thing pointed out for consideration by Ben Davidson in the video is how MACHOs get sidelined from the mix of explanations for the "missing matter" in the universe, but now we find out that there are a lot more red dwarfs and "rogue planets" than what is figured into the dark matter/normal matter equations? (3:11 - 4:00). From 4:23 - 8:35 the elusive characteristics of electric currents are addressed. Electric current comes and goes but it is not always easy to find when it is present and it often moves or changes things, and then subsides. Once that happens, there is no clear cut evidence to link cause and effect. The nearest thing to evidence is the high unlikelihood of anything else being the cause. From 8:35 - 10:00, 4 observations about the problematic current state of affairs are given and suggestions on how to proceed are offered. From 10:00 to the end, Mr. Davidson gives a few examples of why he feels qualified to speak out on topics dealing with physics/astrophysics, even though the closest to a scientific field of study listed on his bio here - http://www.suspicious0bservers.org/about-faq/ is studying meteorology at Penn State. But he is a lawyer, and trained to look at evidence, using reason and logic to come to conclusions. Given that we had a 5% success rate in documenting the electric currents coming off of Enceladus' plumes, and the implications that follow if we are missing that much (or more) when looking outside our solar system, I think a lot of people have the right to say that some of the money being poured into dark matter research should be directed to alternatives like those proposed by the "electric universe" folks.

    Here is the bottom line. Recent data does not support the assertions in that video. Sure there are things we still do not know. But that doesn't mean our current understanding totally wrong like outlined in the video. Ben Davidson took one of Dr. Dodelson's recent quotes, but failed to mention the recent evidence he was discussing in the context of that quote. Why? Because it doesn't support his conspiracies. End of story.

    No, unqualified people do not have the right to say that money should be diverted from real science to a quack theory.

    Where are all the peer reviewed papers that show the electric universe theory is a viable theory? There are none for a reason. Youtube videos from unqualified people do not constitute factual information.

    It's still a mystery why you still insist on chasing after this quack theory.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace - Jimi Hendrix


  3. #43
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    Oct 2008
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    271
    Hi L67 - Thanks for the links. I read the first one and started in on some of the other stuff, but as you know, I am not a scientist so I wouldn't know how to evaluate the data or their method of interpreting it. In the kavli article they & the scientists seem to be hedging a little. (underlines are mine)

    Kavli: "Tantalizingly, however, a small discrepancy between the new findings and previous observations of the early universe might just crack open the door for new physics."

    RISA WECHSLER:.... "Still, it?s certainly possible that we may have something wrong."

    "SCOTT DODELSON: As Risa just said, we?re not sure our current way of thinking is correct because it essentially requires us to make stuff up, namely dark matter and dark energy. It could be that we really are just a month away from a scientific revolution that will upend our whole understanding about cosmology and does not require these things."

    "WECHSLER: ...... There are some small disagreements with the Planck results, but I don?t think we should be too worried yet about them."

    "EFSTATHIOU: One of my hopes for Planck was that the standard model of cosmology would break and it didn?t. But wouldn?t it be absolutely great for cosmology and for physics if this happened? So we should plug away and see. Maybe we?ll be lucky."



    The article seems to be about the consistency of predictions about how "dark matter" went from being more evenly dispersed in the "young" universe to clumping together over time. It is strange that they claim to be making precise measurements of something that they can't find (dark matter) First with the Planck research and now their Dark Energy Survey -

    "But we?ve kept making increasingly precise measurements of the universe, and that?s where the Dark Energy Survey results come in. They are the most precise measurements of the density of matter and how it?s clumped in the local universe."

    What they are measuring, if I understand correctly, is the amount of force that they have attributed to the dark matter that they have not been able to find. The consistency of their predictions with observations about the changing distribution of this "force" over time does not rule out the possibility that the force they are looking for is not dark matter at all. Could it be that they have missed something which is right under their noses, since they have been working on a foundation that says space is "empty"? This article claims that two different teams of scientists found a web of intergalactic filaments of matter using measurements based on the Sunyaev-Zel'dovich effect https://phys.org/news/2017-10-teams-...-baryonic.html

    The standard model of physics is doing its best to remain self-consistent by tweaking observations which may have been originally mis-interpreted, like gravitational lensing. Refraction was ruled out as an explanation for "lensing" because there wasn't supposed to be enough matter in space to make it possible. But now we have the sun connected to earth and several of the planets by magnetic "ropes". How can a magnetic field take on a rope-like structure unless it is being carried by material that can hold magnetism (ferrous stuff, which seems pretty much out of the question) or else some material that can carry an electric current?

    As for why I am interested in all of this, I don't know for sure. Call it intuition. The more I look into it, the more it seems that the mainstream model is going to be stretched to explain a lot of stuff. Like 15 layers of counter-rotating bands on the north pole of Jupiter. How can that be explained by a gravity based paradigm? And then there is the uniformity of ancient accounts and symbols that say things used to be much different in our neighborhood.

    I just read this article this morning - https://www.aaas.org/news/joint-effo...icy-engagement which describes the push for scientists to get their views accepted by politicians. They might try doing things that make sense. Like not promoting the idea of vaccinating infants using serum containing traces of human dna from the aborted fetus tissue that was used to grow the vaccine culture on. (pushing vaccination is one of the "science points" that the article says they need to get policy makers to understand and accept) A lot of children with autism have 100 or more mutations in their dna which they didn't get from their parents. They call them "ex-nova" mutations. The filtering process used to separate vaccine culture from the growing medium isn't perfect, and since infants have a lot of t-cells in their system, some scientists are wondering if the foreign dna from vaccines is getting incorporated into infants through that route. They used to use animal tissue to grow vaccine cultures and any animal tissue that got through the filtering process would be recognized as foreign by the infant's immune system and be destroyed. Tissue from another human would be harder to spot. Forgive me for not trusting the "experts" on this, and a lot of other issues.

  4. #44
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    Found this article - http://news.mit.edu/2017/study-uncov...urbulence-1201 through a youtube video today and couldn't believe that MIT would publish something that seems to admit that there is an "aether" in space. "Plasmas, gas-like collections of ions and electrons, make up an estimated 99 percent of the visible matter in the universe, including the sun, the stars, and the gaseous medium that permeates the space in between."


    "Existing hypotheses about the dynamics of plasma turbulence ?can correctly predict some aspects of what is observed,? he says, but they ?lead to inconsistencies.? "

    ?Naturally occurring plasmas in space and astrophysical environments are threaded by magnetic fields and exist in a turbulent state,? Loureiro says. ?That is, their structure is highly disordered at all scales: If you zoom in to look more and more closely at the wisps and eddies that make up these materials, you?ll see similar signs of disordered structure at every size level.? And while turbulence is a common and widely studied phenomenon that occurs in all kinds of fluids, the turbulence that happens in plasmas is more difficult to predict because of the added factors of electrical currents and magnetic fields."

    This link http://news.mit.edu/2017/mit-plasma-...-universe-0623 is to an article about a previous paper written by Loureiro that was the basis for this latest one. ?We now strongly believe that these magnetic fields critically affect structure formation in the universe ? they are critical to shaping the world as we see it. In a sense, the existence of magnetic fields may be the reason you and I are having this conversation,? Loureiro says.

    This quote from the article about Loureiro's original paper asks an important question, and one that ends up in a bigger "chicken or the egg" scenario than is stated -

    "The question for Loureiro is: Can you amplify a small magnetic seed field, via a plasma dynamo, to levels we observe today in less time than the current age of the universe? And of course: How does a magnetic seed field form in the first place?"

    In addition to finding out how a "magnetic seed field" forms, we might also want to find out how the plasma that makes up the amplifying dynamo was formed in the first place. It appears we have three major players involved - plasma, magnetic fields and electricity. Putting one or more of them in motion seems to generate one or more of the others.

    I apologize for the bad punctuation, but it happens when I copy and paste things into a post. This seems to be a recent problem. Richard, have you had anyone else mention a similar situation?

  5. #45
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    Electrically Driven Weather

    Watched this video just now and found it very interesting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKC-Kuo8mlU . Solar flares and CME events seem to have a big effect on weather in addition to messing with radio communications and the power grid.

  6. #46
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    Here is an interesting video on the self-organizing and self-preservation behaviors of plasma - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFI4SYKfpTg . Plasma forms itself into "cells" or "blobs" as they are called in the video. These cells will adapt to various changes in their environment in order to preserve their structural integrity. Really interesting how the scientists liken some of these adaptations to the process of breathing. Moving and changing in response to changing conditions also seems like it could be called "intelligence".

  7. #47
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    Oct 2008
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    Black Holes, Black Holes, Whatcha Gonna Do, Whatcha Gonna Do When They Can't Use You

    I had to chuckle when I read the title for this video on how uncooperative black holes have been recently for standard cosmology - https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/201...ly-space-news/.

  8. #48
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    Oct 2008
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    Lots to Chew On Here -

    I just finished watching this fifth segment in a ten part series on evidence that we live in an electric universe. The evidence seems to be piling up. https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/201...em-space-news/

  9. #49
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    Oct 2008
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    Waiting For The Claws To Come Out

    Merry Christmas everybody. The 1:57 to 2:45 section of this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqkX7-meotQ deals with the recent release of a study confirming electric currents flowing in the narrow jets shooting out along the axis of active galaxies. The diagram shown has 2 counter-rotating current flows, and Mr. Davidson wonders aloud whether there are more, less energetic, counter-rotating rings outside of the central ones, the existence of which could explain how galaxies can rotate so fast at their outer edges without flying apart. In any case, there will probably be a lot of argument surrounding this discovery.

  10. #50
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    Oct 2008
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    271

    More Interesting Connections

    Saw this video this morning and wanted to share it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoNlQAK7Mxo Electro-magnetism drives a lot of stuff here on earth. 20 or so years ago, when the "global warming" tag came out, I actually told some of the people I was working with at the time that the sun's variable output could be heating the earth. The solar wind pushing on our magnetic "shield" moves it and causes variations in its strength. With all the iron in our planet, moving magnetic fields across iron creates electric current, which also produces heat. Most of them looked at me like I was nuts. The idea of "earth spots" as being akin to sunspots, and being part of the seismic process is intriguing. Will have to check out quakewatch.net next.

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