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  1. #591
    "This is my blood of the covenant, which has been shed for many"
    What has that to do with the cup ?

    "This is my blood" (The blood of Jesus is central here, not the cup)

  2. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmild View Post
    What has that to do with the cup ?

    "This is my blood" (The blood of Jesus is central here, not the cup)

    23καὶ λαβὼν ποτήριον εὐχαριστήσας ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς, καὶ ἔπιον ἐξ αὐτοῦ πάντες. 24καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς, Τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ αἷμά μου τῆς διαθήκης τὸ ἐκχυννόμενον ὑπὲρ πολλῶν

    And taking the cup giving thanks he gave (it) to them, and they all drank from it. and he said to them : "This (cup) is my blood of the covenant that has been shed for many


    Same kind of comparison he made about the bread

    22Καὶ ἐσθιόντων αὐτῶν λαβὼν ἄρτον εὐλογήσας ἔκλασεν καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς καὶ εἶπεν, Λάβετε, τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ σῶμά μου.

    and wheb they were eating taking bread having blessed (it) he broke (it) and gave (it) to them and said: Take (it) , this is my body


    so:
    bread = the body

    cup = the blood


    https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/729311105953189891

    cup Hebr "kos", gematria 86

    86 = 1/5 x 430

    430 ="nefesh"

    The blood is the "nefesh" (soul) of the flesh (Genesis 9:4)
    Last edited by sylvius; 07-03-2019 at 09:04 AM.

  3. #593
    Ok fair enough. But where does it say that it has healing powers ?

  4. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmild View Post
    Ok fair enough. But where does it say that it has healing powers ?

    Matthew added "for the frogiveness of sins"

    Matthew 26:27-28,

    Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, ?Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which has been shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

    sick = "choleh"

    John 5:5, One man was there who had been sick for 38 years

    38 = gematria of "chol" = profane

    profane = "chol"

    sick = "choleh"

    https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/1026880664497467392
    Rashi: flesh and blood must add from the profane to the holy , מחול על הקודש, "meichol v'ad hakodesh"
    Here "chol" is written with "vav" -- like indicating he is saying the same as John did.

    ( Rashi on Genesis 2:2, https://www.chabad.org/library/bible...showrashi=true )


    "flesh and blood must add from the profane to the holy" -- flesh= the bread Jesus gave to eat -- blood = the cup he gave to drink


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=y-JqH1M4Ya8

  5. #595
    Well the bread and cup was used as symbolism here with a symbolic meaning.
    And you explained that well.

    But i fail to see what this has to do with The Holy Grail.

    From Wikipedia
    The Holy Grail is a treasure that serves as an important motif in Arthurian literature. Different traditions describe it as a cup, dish or stone with miraculous powers that provide happiness, eternal youth or sustenance in infinite abundance, often in the custody of the Fisher King. The term "holy grail" is often used to denote an elusive object or goal that is sought after for its great significance.[1]

    The scriptures does not synchronize with the info from the "traditions" that tells us about the powers of the cup.
    It's bogus. I would say the cup itself is insignificant. What is significant is the symbolic representations.

  6. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmild View Post
    Well the bread and cup was used as symbolism here with a symbolic meaning.
    And you explained that well.

    But i fail to see what this has to do with The Holy Grail.




    The scriptures does not synchronize with the info from the "traditions" that tells us about the powers of the cup.
    It's bogus. I would say the cup itself is insignificant. What is significant is the symbolic representations.
    The name "grail" is said to be derived from Hebrew "goral" = lot.

    https://twitter.com/search?q=%22gora...rc=typed_query

    Greek κλῆρος

    https://biblehub.com/greek/2819.htm

    [2818 /κληρονόμος ("heir") is derived from 2819 /κλῆρος ("lot, the casting of lots"), not the other way around - i.e. the term "lots" is not derived from 2818 (κληρονόμος)
    the grail = the cup

    Mark 10:38,
    Jesus said to them, "You do not know what you are asking. Can you drink the cup that I drink or be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?"


    ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς, Οὐκ οἴδατε τί αἰτεῖσθε. δύνασθε πιεῖν τὸ ποτήριον ὃ ἐγὼ πίνω, ἢ τὸ βάπτισμα ὃ ἐγὼ βαπτίζομαι βαπτισθῆναι;

  7. #597
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    Isaiah 53:3-5

    Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account. Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed. But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed.


    accustomed to illness = וִיד֣וּעַ חֹ֑לִי, "vidu'a choli" - here you see the root "chol"= 38 , from the 38 years the man had been sick (John 5:5)

    Indeed, he bore our illnesses = אָכֵ֚ן חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ ה֣וּא נָשָׂ֔א, "achein chalayeinu hu nasa" -- "our 38th's he bore"

    "nasa", נָשָׂ֔א = to carry, lift up -- Greek αἴρω -- in John 1:29,

    Ἴδε ὁ ἀμνὸς τοῦ θεοῦ ὁ αἴρων τὴν ἁμαρτίαν τοῦ κόσμου.

    So you can see that John 1:29 is after Isaiah 53.


    and with his wound we were healed = וּבַֽחֲבֻֽרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ, "uvachavurato nirpa- lanu"

    רָפָא, "rafa" = to heal

    רְפֻאָה, "r'fuah"= medicine

    רִפְאוּת, "rifut" = healing

    רְפָאֵל, "r'fael" = Raphael = God heals

    "his wound" = the cup (grail)

  8. #598
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    https://www.religiousforums.com/thre....205466/?amp=1

    In the Garden of Eden there is one chamber called the Chamber of the Ill. The Messiah then enters that chamber and calls for all the illnesses, all the pains, and all the sufferings of Israel to come upon him, and they all do so. And if he did not ease them off of Israel, taking them upon himself, no one could endure the suffering of Israel from the punishments of Torah, as is written: Yet it was our sickness that he was bearing, [our pains that he endured] (Isaiah 53:4).

    The Zohar, Va-Yaqhel, 2:21a
    Chamber of the Ill = hospital = "beit cholim"

    which is almost the same, also in gematria, as "beit lechem" = Bethlehem (= house of bread)

  9. #599
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    http://www.inner.org/chassidut/the-h...gkDakFZZK-h5bI

    When Elijah the Prophet sent Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi to find the Mashiach at the gate of Rome, he gave him some identifying signs: The Mashiach that the prophet Isaiah describes in chapter 53 as ill and afflicted with sores, sitting among the lepers. And while all the other lepers unbandage all of their sores at once, clean them and re-bandage them, the Mashiach opens and closes each bandage one at a time. This is so that at the moment that God calls him to redeem the Nation of Israel, he will not be delayed any more than the time that it takes to bandage one wound. The clearest sign to identify the Mashiach is his keen eagerness to redeem the Nation of Israel at any moment.

    Isaiah describes Mashiach as והוא מחלל מפשענו מדכא מעונתינו ("wounded because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities"). This phrase has the same numerical value, (1369, Yechidah squared) as the first appearance of Mashiach in the Torah: ורוח אלקים מרחפת על פני המים )"And the spirit of God hovered over the face of the water."( The Zohar and Breishit Rabah explain that the "spirit of God" in the verse refers to "the spirit of the King Mashiach."

    (...)

    The Mashiach is מחלל מפשענו "wounded because of our transgressions". In Hebrew, the word מחלל above for "wounded" can also refer to dancing. The Mashiach relates to us in a kind of dance. He hovers near and then distances himself, he elusively glimmers close and then fades away, until we awaken to return to God and by doing so, merit the redemption.
    I thought the flipflapping of wings is part of mating dance

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5S0Hi9GXvs

  10. #600
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    Christian Messiah is called "the bridegroom"

    https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topi...s-A-Bridegroom

    Would that be the difference between a Jewish and a Christian Messiah?

    Bridegroom = Hebrew "chatan"

    https://twitter.com/search?q=chatan%...rc=typed_query

    https://twitter.com/Minkmaat/status/914446559491821568

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