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Thread: Daniel 9:23-27

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    dp:



    sylvius, your desperation at denying Daniel's clear prophecy is becoming obvious, as you are grasping at almost anything to avoid the truth. Let's just look at Matthew 18:21-22,

    "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."

    This is a totally different context, so deserves an entirely different interpretation. But having said that, it is obvious that there are multiple occurrences of this 70 * 7 = 490.

    Once again, I will glean a few gems from Chuck Missler's video series on Daniel (even if I disagree with him in his Zionistic Dispensationalism, I will always give credit where credit is due):

    "Time, Times, and 1/2 Time:"

    "Times" = dual, later lost in Aramaic
    1 + 2 + 1/2 = 3 1/2 (Dan 7:25; 12:7; Rev 12:4)

    3 1/2 years (Dan 9:27; 12:7)

    42 months (Rev 11:2; 13:5)

    1260 days (Rev 11:3; Dan 12:6)

    1/2 "week" (Dan 9:27)

    Missler using Larkin's work on 490:

    Abraham to the Exodus:

    Promise Gen 12:4 = 75 years, Gal 3:17 430
    75+430=505

    Ishmael Gen 16:16; 21:5 = 15

    505 - 15 = 490 years

    Exodus to the Temple:

    Begun 1 Kings 6-8 = 594
    Completed ` Kings 6:38 =7
    594+7=601

    Servitudes in Judges
    Mesopotamia 3:8 = 8
    Moabites 3:12-14 = 18
    Canaanites 4:2,3 = 20
    Midianites 6:1 = 7
    Ammonites 10:7,8 = 18
    Philistines 13:1 = 40
    8+18+20+7+18+40=111
    601-111=490

    The Temple to the Edict of Artaxerxes:

    1 Kings 8:1-66 = 1005 BC
    Nehemiah 2:1 = 445 BC
    1005-445=560

    Babylonian Captivity = 70
    560-60=490

    Artaxerxes to the 2nd Coming of Christ:

    Artaxerxes to the 1st Advent of Christ
    "The 69 weeks" 69*7 = 483

    [Church Interval] = ?

    The "70th week" = 7
    483+7=490

    (But I can't see how Missler can subtract the Church Age from Israel like this, as it is the New Covenant, including both Jews and Gentiles. This is one of the main reasons I reject much of Missler's eschatology.)



    I suspect there is quite a bit of cooking the years here, but it is rather fascinating just the same, and you can't dismiss it all. You will also notice that he interprets Daniel's 70th week much differently than I would ... but for your enjoyment! Missler suggests that this is how often God is offering forgiveness to Israel, over the course of history.

    dp
    the gematria of "beit -lechem" -Bethlehem- is also 490 (412 + 78); would that be why that he was born there?

  2. #12
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    dp:

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    the gematria of "beit -lechem" -Bethlehem- is also 490 (412 + 78); would that be why that he was born there?
    sylvius, this is one place where I will say, that is very interesting. Keep in mind He is the Saviour of the world, and He, as God, is the only One to forgive sin, and the Scripture says only God can forgive sin. Interestingly, the One that alone forgives our sin, should teach His disciples that they should forgive others 70*7, or 490 times (obviously, we cannot forgive like God, but we can choose not to hold others' sins against us as a barrier to loving them as a neighbour, especially if they repent and ask our forgiveness. There may be times where we care enough for them not to forgive too quickly, but release them in love, so as not to short-circuit their restoration). But, if you are keeping count on your sins, you probably missed the point. Add to that, Jesus is the "Bread of Life", the anti-type to the type of Israel eating bread in the wilderness. He is the heavenly manna come down from heaven to be bread for the Church, to sustain the lives of the elect.

    dp
    Last edited by dpenn; 09-30-2014 at 01:38 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    dp:



    sylvius, this is one place where I will say, that is very interesting. Keep in mind He is the Saviour of the world, and He, as God, is the only One to forgive sin, and the Scripture says only God can forgive sin. Interestingly, the One that alone forgives our sin, should teach His disciples that they should forgive others 70*7, or 490 times (obviously, we cannot forgive like God, but we can choose not to hold others' sins against us as a barrier to loving them as a neighbour, especially if they repent and ask our forgiveness. There may be times where we care enough for them not to forgive too quickly, but release them in love, so as not to short-circuit their restoration). But, if you are keeping count on your sins, you probably missed the point. Add to that, Jesus is the "Bread of Life", the anti-type to the type of Israel eating bread in the wilderness. He is the heavenly manna come down from heaven to be bread for the Church, to sustain the lives of the elect.

    dp

    "lechem" = bread, "beit-lechem" = house of bread.

    John 6:51, I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world”


    v.58, Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever


    Things that go far beyond (evil) preterism

  4. #14
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    7 x 7 = 49 ( a square)

    49 coming "close" to 50

    Which might be the "secret" of the counting of the omer:

    http://www.davka.org/what/text/litur...rcalendar.html



    "50" = pentecost, the day of revelation.

  5. #15
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    Oh, but this is great:


    http://www.scheinerman.net/judaism/shavuot/omer4.html




    And remember: "490"= "10 x 49"

  6. #16
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    The "teivah" = ark (of Noach) is said to have had a pyramid-form, "to one cubit finished from the top" wherein was the skylight, "tsohar".

    The flood did take up the ark, in such a way that it came touch with it's skylight the 50th cube above the earth. (you can reckon after)

  7. #17
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    Jesus, according to the synoptici, was laid in his grave exactly at the beginning of the counting of the omer.

  8. #18
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    The two trees in paradise show a 1:4 ratio (tree of life, "ets hachayim", counts 233, while the tree of knowledge, "ets hadaat tov vara", counts 932 = 4 x 233).

    So now you might see them as the 49 squares of the omer-counting!

  9. #19
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    And there is of course this very weird thing about Genesis 1:1, that it's gematria is 2701. I found it on McGough's website, years ago.

    2701 = 37 x 73, outline 216 = 6 x 6 x 6 = "d'vir", the name of the holy room in the temple.

    Rabbi Ginsburgh made it even more flavory, with his "spirit of God hovering over the face of the water" (Genesis 1:2) Spirit of God = "ruach elohim", gematria 300, like the lettervalue of "shin", the first letter of "shamayim" (in Genesis 1:1). When the heaven splits it splits in "shin" and "mayim"(= water)- and that is the spirit of God hovering on the face of the water, coming down from heaven in the form of a dove.

    And amazingly: 2701 - 300 ("shin") = 2401 = 7 x 7 x 7 x 7 = 49 x 49.

  10. #20
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    The square is the scriptural form of the final "mem", called "mem s'tumah" = closed "mem". Lettervalue of "mem" being 40.

    Daniel 12:13 ending with final "nun" (with value 50) where the final "mem" should have been apropriate, laying stress on that.

    It's about the way you have to go, even to the end.

    Way out of squareness.

    Way up to Jerusalem?

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