Achilles heel..

[duxrow]

Achilles -- Jacob grabbed Esau's heel, G25:26, and Pharez breached Zerah, G38 -- both stories saying FIGURATIVELY how the 2nd-born will succeed, IAW the plain language of the NT.

Gen3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy [serpent] seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...9689#post59689

[David M]

Acilleshilles -- Jacob grabbed Esau's heel, G25:26, and Pharez breached Zerah, G38 -- both stories saying FIGURATIVELY how the 2nd-born will succeed, IAW the plain language of the NT.

Gen3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy [serpent] seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...9689#post59689

Hello Dux

Regarding the serpent's seed. Is God talking with a literal and physical creature, or is this a simple play-like dramatization in which the serpent is personified and is representing another entity? I see the same literary style at the beginning of the Book of Job in which Satan is personified. The same entity is being dealt with in Gen 3:15.

From another thread dpenn said;

Just the fact that you make so much out of the Gematria of Eliezer of Damascus, and "the end of all wars" tied to Psalm "110", makes me wonder what the Talmudic Kabbalists might be up to next. And when you throw in the Zodiacal Aquarias, the dawning of this new astrological age, my concern deepens, not that I buy into any of this from a true scientific perspective.

In a similar way, I am not buying into the myth that has been built up around the serpent/devil/satan. I am presenting my view of this entity from a 21st Century perspective.
Without realizing it, we use words in our English language that have come straight out of Greek mythology. The fact that the tendon in the heel is called the achilles tendon and is a weak spot that often is the cause of injury in athletes, the name Achilles has come from Greek mythology. Just because the name is now part of our everyday language does not mean that by using the name/word I buy into Greek mythology. The same as I do not believe in Greek mythology, I do not believe the myths that have grown around the serpent/devil/satan.

The enmity in Gen 3:15 is the same enmity between man and God. It is man's carnal mind that is enmity with God. The personal conflict that Jesus had and which he won, was to overcome the carnal side of the mind. The carnal side surfaced at times of temptation. As we know, Jesus did not give into those thoughts. Instead, Jesus concentrated on spiritual matters and doing the will of his Heavenly Father. Hence, when we see Jesus "resisting the devil", he was able to overcome by recalling scripture and effectively, "the devil fled from him". In reality, the devil does not flee (as a person would), but the devil/satan/serpent that is present as the carnal side of the mind is suppressed and not allowed to manifest in action that is evil.

Jesus suppressed his carnal side of the mind so perfectly, that he won the ultimate victory over it. The carnal side to his mind did not win and Jesus never fell prey to it once, otherwise he would have sinned. The wages of sin is death, and Jesus did not earn those wages. Therefore, God had to raise Jesus from the dead and so Jesus has gained eternal life, and cannot die again. Jesus is now eternal as God is eternal, so that makes Jesus more like God; remembering that; "we shall be like him".

Through his death on the cross and his subsequent resurrection, Jesus won the victory over the devil/the serpent (the carnal side to the mind) and now we are told, he cannot be tempted anymore. That is the position we shall attain once immortality is bestowed and our personal victory has only been made possible by the achievement and victory of Jesus. A perfect man (by God's standard) and therefore, a righteous man was possible. God is vindicated and man has no grounds to vindicate himself by having an excuse for his own failure. To find excuse is symptomatic of the carnal mind.

All the best
David

[dpenn]

dp:

Hello Dux

Regarding the serpent's seed. Is God talking with a literal and physical creature, or is this a simple play-like dramatization in which the serpent is personified and is representing another entity? I see the same literary style at the beginning of the Book of Job in which Satan is personified. The same entity is being dealt with in Gen 3:15.

From another thread dpenn said;

Just the fact that you make so much out of the Gematria of Eliezer of Damascus, and "the end of all wars" tied to Psalm "110", makes me wonder what the Talmudic Kabbalists might be up to next. And when you throw in the Zodiacal Aquarias, the dawning of this new astrological age, my concern deepens, not that I buy into any of this from a true scientific perspective.

In a similar way, I am not buying into the myth that has been built up around the serpent/devil/satan. I am presenting my view of this entity from a 21st Century perspective.

David, there is a big difference between saying this about the Talmud and other extra-biblical sources, and saying this about the Bible. I would not agree with your "In a similar way, as I believe the Bible is addressing a real being called Satan/Lucifer".

dp

[David M]

dp:



David, there is a big difference between saying this about the Talmud and other extra-biblical sources, and saying this about the Bible. I would not agree with your "In a similar way, as I believe the Bible is addressing a real being called Satan/Lucifer".

dp

Well dp, since Isaiah 14:12 is the only verse in which the name Lucifer is used and in the context it is used it is talking about the King of Babylon (v4), what else are you going to use to support your case?

Satan is a general term and most of the time, where Satan is mentioned some form of human agent is involved. There is not a strong case to be made for any of God's Angels to have sinned. I look forward to the case you present, if you think God's does not know what he was doing when he created his Angels. Do you think God would create immortal sinners?


David

[duxrow]

Hello Dux

Regarding the serpent's seed. Is God talking with a literal and physical creature, or is this a simple play-like dramatization in which the serpent is personified and is representing another entity? I see the same literary style at the beginning of the Book of Job in which Satan is personified. The same entity is being dealt with in Gen 3:15.

From another thread dpenn said;
In a similar way, I am not buying into the myth that has been built up around the serpent/devil/satan. Without realizing it, we use words in our English language that have come straight out of Greek mythology. The fact that the tendon in the heel is called the achilles tendon and is a weak spot that often is the cause of injury in athletes, the name Achilles has come from Greek mythology. Just because the name is now part of our everyday language does not mean that by using the name/word I buy into Greek mythology.

Amen. Agree, dp

Understand about myth 'Achilles', David, but figure God knows about that, and uses that malady as a figure of speech supporting how Jacob wins/Esau loses, and how born-again is better than scoffing.
Like you, I don't "believe in mythology", but do consider that those fables were really written by Greeks w vivid imaginations.. hah.

No, I don't believe Satan has a 'body', but is a spirit that is active world-wide (Mayberry to HongKong) and we know him by his words that encourage sin. The fact that Satan was in heaven (!) in Book of Job, causes me to believe God intended for the Hebrews to be ignorant of his true nature; not fully revealed until Rev12.

The many metaphors used of Jesus, God, and Saints, convinces me of the many metaphors of Satan: Devil, Dragon, Adversary, Serpent, Beelzebub, Accuser, Amalek type, Lucifer pride, and last but not least "god of this world", 2Cor4:4.

Appreciate your fine answer, David, and no doubt (for me) we're both playing for the same team!
Cheers.. /s/ dux

[Pangga]

I wanted to have a talk about this with my commercial door repair specialist friends in Chicago. What good bible character reference is the best for the topic "weakness"?