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Thread: ROCK Solid

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    I was in Northern France in 1999 with total sun-darkening, on a hill,

    Impressive was the dawn that came from the west, very quick, and the roosters that began to crow.
    One Hebrew roots Christian teacher said there were no roosters in Jerusalem, but this was rather the function of a priest, whose crying out in the morning was called the cock crow. Are you familiar with that?

    btw, I was born on a farm, so am familiar with cock crows in the morning, especially on my grandparents farm.

    dp
    Last edited by dpenn; 09-12-2014 at 01:26 AM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    One Hebrew roots Christian teacher said there were no roosters in Jerusalem, but this was rather the function of a priest, whose crying out in the morning was called the cock crow. Are you familiar with that?
    No.

    But it might be clear that the whole passion-story is not historical.

    It is just very unlikely that the Sanhedrin came together in the night, even the night of passover.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    I was in Northern France in 1999 with total sun-darkening, on a hill,

    Impressive was the dawn that came from the west, very quick, and the roosters that began to crow.
    The cock crowed TWICE!
    Three of the gospels; Matthew, Luke, and John, all record how Jesus told Simon Peter that he would deny Him three times before the cock crowed. It's the gospel of Mark, 14:30, which throws a monkey wrench into this account by having Jesus say "before the cock crows twice, thou shalt deny me thrice".

    Yes, I've heard the stories about the 'cockcrow' being a slang name for a watch of some kind, but I prefer to take the literal POV when possible.

    My wife told me she was going to scream if she heard any more about that rooster crowing. I went round and round with all four gospels before concluding that Peter had to have denied Jesus three times before the first cockcrow and three more times before the second cockcrow. Six times in all; detailed rather extensively in the four accounts.

    Our Holy Ghostwriter is thus perceived to have engineered this mystery of the gospels for the edification of believers. It's part of the banquet table (his Word) He's prepared for us in the midst of our enemies!
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Dux

    Just thinking about the title of your thread 'Rock solid'. Thinking outside the box for a minute, we could think how we are firmly attached to this planet (rock) by gravity.

    The earth is referred to as the 3rd rock from the sun. By gravity we are firmly stuck to this planet. We are like little rocks attracted to a big rock. The earth is in its orbit around the sun because it is trying to escape from the sun, but is held in check by gravity. The moon likewise is held in check by the earth.

    God and Jesus are our rocks, which we are attracted to them like gravity and our feet are firmly attached to those rocks. There are others who are trying to escape their pull, and are held in check, though not attached. Reprobates are those represented by the rocks that do escape the pull of gravity and will be lost to the outer depths of space.

    All the best
    David
    Hi David, the slang 'rock' being a large jewel like a diamond became a kind of 'bottom line' for me -- in the beginning (Ex17) it seemed to me like some kind of waterfall that started when Moses struck it--because "water from the Rock" brought on the thought of "blood from a turnip", and NOT LIKELY it seemed to me. On the other hand, was familiar with fracking for oil, so was a possibility.

    Your '3rd rock from the sun' is another aspect, and connected with Gravity -- yet another pov to cause us to examine the account. Tks, /s/ dux
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    No.

    But it might be clear that the whole passion-story is not historical.

    It is just very unlikely that the Sanhedrin came together in the night, even the night of passover.
    sylvius,

    It was, after all, a very special moment for them. As if the whole illegal Sanhedrin kangaroo court wasn't very unlikely to any passionate observer. Is it therefore, unlikely? Somehow I just can't get warm and gushy for the Sanhedrin, so that their integrity might be restored. I know, let's just say it wasn't historical, and didn't happen after all!

    A bit of a lame argument, wouldn't you say?

    dux,

    I don't buy the Hebrew roots special morning priest being called the "cock crow" either. But I also don't buy into your 2 sets of 3 denials for each of the 2 rooster crows. You aren't necessarily lying if one person says 2 roosters crowed, while another witness says a rooster crowed. Both could be true. The main part of the text is that Peter denied the Lord 3 times.

    Your wife might have a good point. It sounds like you might NOT want to push this one around home.

    dp

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    sylvius,

    dux,

    I don't buy the Hebrew roots special morning priest being called the "cock crow" either. But I also don't buy into your 2 sets of 3 denials for each of the 2 rooster crows. You aren't necessarily lying if one person says 2 roosters crowed, while another witness says a rooster crowed. Both could be true. The main part of the text is that Peter denied the Lord 3 times.

    Your wife might have a good point. It sounds like you might NOT want to push this one around home.

    dp
    Who said anything about two roosters? That's the kind of response coming from someone who isn't interested in the 'trivial' circumstances surrounding all six (6) denials. But you're right--I don't insist on my wife or anyone else digging into a 'foolish' agenda. No offense intended, dpen, just not ready to leave the game yet.
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post
    Who said anything about two roosters? That's the kind of response coming from someone who isn't interested in the 'trivial' circumstances surrounding all six (6) denials. But you're right--I don't insist on my wife or anyone else digging into a 'foolish' agenda. No offense intended, dpen, just not ready to leave the game yet.
    You lost me ...

    It is a good thing we are arguing over a couple of roosters and not 12 monkeys ...

    Then this might be for real. Look what's happened to Hollywood. Reminds me of the Brad Pitt psyche ward scene, well at least one of them. Was that one or two scenes?

    dp
    Last edited by dpenn; 09-12-2014 at 01:16 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    You lost me ... It is a good thing we are arguing over a couple of roosters and not 12 monkeys ...

    dp
    Not original with me--got it from Bullinger, ca1890, Companion Bible appendix, and he also shares the biz about two thieves AND two malefactors. Loved his "Fig. of Speech", Numbers in Scripture, and "Witness of the Stars.
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    sylvius,

    It was, after all, a very special moment for them. As if the whole illegal Sanhedrin kangaroo court wasn't very unlikely to any passionate observer. Is it therefore, unlikely? Somehow I just can't get warm and gushy for the Sanhedrin, so that their integrity might be restored. I know, let's just say it wasn't historical, and didn't happen after all!

    A bit of a lame argument, wouldn't you say?
    Mark, Matthew and Luke have him suffer on the sixth day which is also the first day of Passover, and have him been laid in the grave exactly at the beginning of Sabbath, which is also the first day ofthe counting of the Omer, that counts up to the sixth day of the month Sivan = Pentecost, according to what Rashi wrote on Genesis 1:31,

    the sixth day: Scripture added a “hey” on the sixth [day], at the completion of the Creation, to tell us that He stipulated with them, [“you were created] on the condition that Israel accept the Five Books of the Torah.” [The numerical value of the “hey” is five.] (Tanchuma Bereishith 1). Another explanation for “the sixth day” : They [the works of creation] were all suspended until the “sixth day,” referring to the sixth day of Sivan, which was prepared for the giving of the Torah (Shab. 88a). [The“hey” is the definite article, alluding to the well-known sixth day, the sixth day of Sivan, when the Torah was given (ad loc.).]
    In this scheme they have placed the narrative.


    John has it different, he has Jesus crucified on the day before Passover, the day on which the pascal-lambs are slaughtered, but also the sixth day (of the week).

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by duxrow View Post
    Hi David, the slang 'rock' being a large jewel like a diamond became a kind of 'bottom line' for me -- in the beginning (Ex17) it seemed to me like some kind of waterfall that started when Moses struck it--because "water from the Rock" brought on the thought of "blood from a turnip", and NOT LIKELY it seemed to me. On the other hand, was familiar with fracking for oil, so was a possibility.

    Your '3rd rock from the sun' is another aspect, and connected with Gravity -- yet another pov to cause us to examine the account. Tks, /s/ dux
    Thinking of another word connection, we have 'Rock & Roll'

    Rock is a form of music. There is the song title lyric "Solid (as a Rock)" by Ashford and Simpson.

    Thinking of the words "rock" and "roll", I think of the image in Daniel where we have the small stone (rock) cut out of the mountain without hands. The rock rolls down the mountain and strikes the image on the feet. That image no longer had its feet firmly planted on on the ground, but was crushed to dust.

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