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  1. #11
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    Really? I must have missed that because all I saw you do is assert your conspiratorial nonsense. I am compelled by logic and facts. I don't find your arguments convincing, nor do I find them credible.
    You've got to be kidding me. This is so typical of MIB to dismiss logic and sound reasoning. Just as the warren commission of JFK insisted that the magic bullet theory was scientifically possible, yet never provided any REAL evidence to prove it; just theories, as you've done here.

    So instead of replying to each of your factless points, I'll concentrate on a single topic.

    You claimed that the TWC took 9 seconds to fall. Have you considered that its height would have something to do with the amount of time. When I say, "Gravity Speed", I am referring to the unrestricted collapse of each floor from top-to-bottom. And when you observe the buildings collapse, you get the sense that the buildings fell at full speed with very little resistance. PLUS you never disproved the video of WTC 7 collapsing from obvious detonation charges.

    Now, if I understand your position about towers 1 and 2, you insist that the jet fuel on the top floors nearly 100 floors high burned hot enough to weaken the steel beams which torgued them so hot they eventually collapsed and caused those floors to begin its descent. BUT this DOES NOT explain the 90+ floors below which:

    1. WERE NOT SUBJECTED TO HEAT
    2. WERE NOT DAMAGED BY IMPACT
    3. WERE NOT DAMAGED BY AN IMPOSSIBLE EXPLOSION OF DIESEL FUEL FROM THE BASEMENT
    4. WERE NOT SUBJECTED TO ANY TYPE OF CONDITION WHEREBY STRUCTURAL FAILURE WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE UNRESTRICTED COLLAPSE OF IMPENDING FLOORS FROM ABOVE

    I do recall you suggesting that negative pressure from the fires of the 110th floor created such a high pressures so as to cause the complete collapse of the lower floors. But as I soundly pointed out, the amount of pressure required for this condition to take place would be far larger than the negative pressures of an F5 tornado. But this would have been visible as windows on all sides of the building would have imploded inward, as well as debris would have been seen rushing inward. None of this happened. Besides, this has NEVER happened in architectural history, and thus this point is the most ridiculously absurd explanation I've ever heard. And more than 10,000 architectures disagree with you on this point, and rightly so.

    SO, let's recap before I take on the next items of discussion.

    Per your position, WTC buildings 1 and 2 collapsed because jet fuel burned so damn hot that the affected beams were weakened enough to collapse. In the meantime, the hot fires from the upper floors created a magical vacuum which somehow mysteriously caused the complete failure of the 90+ floors below the burning sections, thereby contributing to the gravity-speed (or near) collapse of the complete structure. And what's important to note is that the concrete was nearly pulverized, and every car sitting nearby had its paint completely burned off. Let's just add this to Chloe's Wall of Weird!

    DID I MENTION THE CONTINUED MOLTEN STEAL FLOWING A WEEK AFTER THE COLLAPSE? THought I'd throw that in there.

    SO, I'd like to give you the chance to summarize from start to finish why/how towers 1 and 2 collapsed....in your own words.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  2. #12
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    Hey Joe,

    Did you get a chance to read my points for 911 being an inside job and beyond?

    dp

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    Hey Joe, can you use a little support from the Canadian front?

    You obviously have been working for some time on amassing much of your detailed material. There may be mixed reactions to the source of some of my video clips, but if you don't buy them, prove them wrong. Before bringing a few more details to bear, here is a recent interview of a 1st responder NY Fireman just a couple days ago:

    Lee Ann McAdoo on Infowars – 911 Firefighter Blows WTC 7 Cover Up Wide Open
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQrpL...sc-APX6wV1twLg

    A few more points to insist that 911 was an inside job (Joe covered WTC 7 already):

    1. A mock terrorist attack was being executed that day by NORAD, mimicking ongoing terrorist attacks, so that anything observed as real terrorism could be chalked up to a training exercise.

    2. How could the US Defense possibly not have activated jet fighters the minute the so-called hijacked jets went off radar course, and especially after the first Tower was struck?

    3. How could the Pentagon be struck by a large jet liner, making a looping 270 degree steep turn, to spiral down to ground level for the strike? The presumed hijack pilot couldn’t even handle a Sesna in his training. There were even experienced jet pilots who said they couldn’t navigate the aircraft to that precision.

    4. There was no initial aircraft debris from the crash site at the Pentagon. There was just one circular hole through the 5 layers of super reinforced concrete. This is surprising since the weakest part of the aircraft is the pilot cone and fuselage. What happened to the engines? Why no engine holes in the Pentagon wall? A presumed engine that miraculously appeared on the scene a little later was a total mismatch for the jet liner

    5. Why was there no discernable parts from the jet that was presumably downed over Shanksville? Why no bodies? Why no landing gear, engine parts, or tail section?

    6. Why was WTC 7 completely left out of the 911 Report?

    7. Why were all witnesses with a different story line ignored in the 911 Report?

    8. Why do so many of the anniversaries of 911 refuse to admit first responders? You would think they would be given front row seats and heralded as heroes. Could it be because so many of them know that the official story line is a treasonous lie?

    9. Why do so many professional architects, structural engineers, and demolition experts insist that a complete investigation needs to be carried out on 911 because they just don’t buy the existing official story line? What do they have to gain?

    10. How did the terrorist passports survive these horrific explosive sites, when all else was just vaporized?

    11. What about the evidence that 5 of the 19 terrorists have been found to be still living, with 2 of them even being interviewed, and yet the official story is cast in stone?

    12. Why, when 15 of the 19 supposed terrorists were Saudi’s, would you attack Afghanistan and then Iraq?

    13. Why has no one ever forced the gov’t to explain why they used fake Bin Laden video? The dummy fake Bin Laden doesn’t even look like the real one, plus he is right handed, not left handed, and he is wearing a ring and a watch, something a Taliban would never do.

    What is the fruit of the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

    1. Devastation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraq is a powder keg of instability, and Afghanistan has been turned into the world’s number 1 opium producing nation of the world, with US troops forced to oversee the poppy fields. Plus ongoing drone strikes into Pakistan, on who knows what targets?

    2. Extended destabilization of Libya and Egypt, funding and supporting the Muslim Brotherhood in pulling off political coups, overthrowing the govt’s of Khadaffi and Mubaraq, dictators, but choir boys compared to the current regimes.

    3. Why the attempted military overthrow of Assad in Syria? Why would the US and allies fund and provide military support and weaponry to rebels that are 100 times more vile than a secular Islamic dictator like Assad?

    4. Why the Benghazi stand-down? Who ordered it and why? Keep in mind it cost the life of an American Ambassador. What of all the high level stories of a Fast and Furious like arming of the Sunni rebels, to overthrow Assad’s regime? Recall Joe Biden even visiting the rebels fighting in Syria.

    5. How could ISIL, ISIS, IS, Al Qaeda, Al CIAda, or whatever their current name is, get the money and weapons to do what they are doing? Especially since there is strong evidence that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Turkey and Jordan are supporting them from the Arab side, and strong evidence that US, Britain, France, and Israel are funding them from the NATO side. Not to mention, high level leaks that it all came from Benghazi.

    6. Why was ISSIS not dealt with in the open desert, when they could have obliterated them? Surely with their beheading of 300,000 Christians, Muslims, and many other relatively innocent people in their wake, they were a greater threat than Khadaffi, Mubaraq, or Assad. Yet these were the chosen answer to all of NATO’s desire to overthrow Assad. Why was NATO and the US just shadow boxing with ISIS, but now suddenly, they are prepared to attack them in Syria? Will they "accidentally" attack Assad, by missiles that fly over their cuckoo’s nest? If they turn this into an Assad coup, from an ISIS strike gone bad, what then? A new central bank in Syria? Will the Zionists celebrate a fulfillment of Isaiah 17:1 and how Damascus is destroyed and uninhabitable? Are we really sure this is a futurist prophesy that the US is ordained by God to fulfill?

    7. Why would Ukraine suddenly overthrow their duly elected President, after they voted to not enter the EU? Why would Obama say he was replaced with a legitimate replacement, when he was merely an appointed banker for the EU? Only later did they have a seemingly legitimately elected President.

    8. Why is it so wrong for Russia to have naval bases in the Crimea, but it is ok for the US to have a base at Guantanamo?

    9. What about MH17? Why was it given orders to fly through a war zone? Why did it drop its flight altitude from 35,000 ft to 32-33,000 ft, to then be in range to be hit by a ground missile? Who really fired the missile?

    10. Why do so many US survivors of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty still insist that they were intentionally attacked by Israeli Air Force and Navy in the 1967 war? Many Americans lost their lives on that day. And why did Pres Johnson and McNamara order any response to stand-down, not coming to their rescue for many hours, all the while the USS Liberty was flying a huge American flag? It had all the appearance of making it look like the USS Liberty was being attacked by Egyptian fighter jets to draw the US into the conflict. But at the cost of one of her own ships, and even more valuable, her own men?

    11. Why are the US borders left open for almost anybody and their dog to cross, while at the same time ISIS terrorist alerts are at an all-time high? Why are Americans being fined if they cross the border, but illegal aliens are given a blind eye, and even flown at tax payer expense to locations around the US, with children even being admitted to schools without a physical to make sure they are not carrying some contagious disease. All of this when the ebola threat is epidemic world-wise. And why can illegal aliens enter US at will, but US citizens are forced to undergo embarrassing and time-consuming body searches?

    12. What will Russia do if Syria is attacked by US? Why is the Sunni coalition so willing to fund and attack the Shia Muslims, including their strategic partner, Syria? I realize that there are great threats to Israel, but Assad has been at peace with Israel. Is it really Israel, or is it something more financial or business oriented?

    13. Is it possible these are advanced steps required to maneuver a NWO on a traumatized world? What happens if the lid blows off, and it unleashes WWIII? For certain, some would welcome such a population reduction and an elite money jackpot, but have the world leaders really counted the cost? And what if the Zionists have misread Scripture? What then?

    Well, for the Gematria driven hordes, I have listed two sets of baker’s dozen, of why we should be very concerned about what is transpiring before our very eyes in the wake of 911. I am a Canadian, but I am a thinking, conscientious Canadian, and one who would love to, as much as is possible, live at peace with all people.

    In conclusion, consider a few videos that Alex Jones and Infowars have posted:

    Lee Ann McAdoo on Alex Jones – America Mercenaries Threaten War with Russia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAn6q...1twLg&index=75

    Alex Jones – A Brief History of ISIS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eotyk...sc-APX6wV1twLg

    Lee Ann McAdoo on Alex Jones – Obama Wants $500 million to Arm ISIS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCWpD...sc-APX6wV1twLg

    Lt Col Tony Shaffer on Alex Jones – Secrets of the 28 page 911 Report Released
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6xw...sc-APX6wV1twLg

    Jerome Corsi on Alex Jones – Historical Foundation of ISIS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5-Bp...sc-APX6wV1twLg

    Alex Jones Breakdown of the ISIS Threat:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnuh1...sc-APX6wV1twLg

    PS. Now if you could only get your doctrine on the Trinity as clear as your 911 investigation ...

    dp
    VERY GOOD INFORMATION! You've covered nearly the entire truther-movement complex, but I didn't want to over do it. LOL I've found if you take one topic at a time, and debate the science and evidences of that particular aspect (Towers 1 and 2), and move progressively from there, more ground can be covered logically until the MIB (or other liars of the 911 Commission Report) will eventually find themselves looking pretty stupid with all of their weird-science explanations. Take LD67 for example. He seems to buy into the NIST reports (mixed with a few of his own I suspect) that towers 1 and 2 came down because:

    1. Jet fuel burned too hot which:
    a) Weakened the upper beams and dominoed down from there
    b) Jet Fuel apparently burned hot enough, in conjunction with material fires, which created a super-strong F5+ tornado like negative vacuum which somehow managed to cause lower-floor stuctural failure: Contributed to zero-gravity collapse
    2. A diesel engine on the basement somehow EXPLODED in conjunction with the IMPLOSION OF THE NEGATIVE PRESSURE (two opposing forces I might add), which contributed to near zero-gravity collapse.

    As you pointed out, thousands of architects and engineers are questioning this non-sense and demanding proof; not just scientific experiments conducted on a misleading bases.

    I've been debating a few nuts on the web and it's getting easier to sniff out the MIB (Men in Black) working for the alpha-agencies. When they don't have the knowledge to debunk the truth movement, they rely on insults and youtube videos. LOL

    Your post is fantastic, but we'd have to take each of your points and discuss them one-by-one. Otherwise we end up in a confused discussion.

    One of my strongest points (thanks to my aircraft experience of 20 years) is the engine recovered from WTC 1. The engine found was not a Pratt & Whitney engine, but a General Electric engine based on its turbine cooling manifold. Flight United and American Airlines use Pratt & Whitney engines; NOT General Electric.

    Now a few years ago, some information came out that a former Pratt & Whitney engineer teamed up with NASA to help improve fuel efficiency on their planes. So SUPPOSEDLY they took the cooling duct manifold and joined it with a Pratt & Whitney, which became a new model comprised of both GE and Pratt & Whitney technology. Conveniently, a photo appeared with an older 747 using this so-called newer engine. But a total lack of proof that Flight United or American Airliners were never contracted for the so called "improved design" of the 747 engines. And why would they take older 747 engines and install them on new 767's?

    The CIA has tried very hard to debunk the WRONG ENGINE at the WTC so they've been relying on false photo's and unreal designs. I did, however, learn that NASA and the United States Air Force have been using General Electric engines in their 767's, although some models did have Pratt's. So the question remains. WE KNOW, based on the engine evidence, that neither Flight United or American Airlines used GE or composite GE/Pratt engines. So, who's planes were they?

    MY ANSWER? I believe those were remote-piloted planes out of Montgomery AB, Alabama (where the flight paths cris-crossed) (or was it Andrews Air Force Base), and they were controlled by the CIA and Mossad (Israeli Intelligence Agency), leaving the military out of the loop in a nation-wide EXERCISE involving HI-JACKED airplanes. I was active duty Air Force at the time, and we were in the middle of a phase2 chemical warefare exercise when the planes hit. I new something was wrong about the buildings collapsing.

    Anyways, great post buddy! And here's the picture of the WRONG engine recovered at the WTC's.

    Name:  FBI_engineview-th.JPG
Views: 29
Size:  23.8 KB

    See the cooling tubes denoted by the red arrow? Pratt & Whitney engines do not use turbine-blade coolers as denoted in the picture. This could only be a General Electric engine. Unless of course we buy into the theory that a Pratt employee teamed up with NASA to improve OLDER MODEL 747 Pratt & Whitney engines. But why fit new 767's with old 747 engines from the 1970's? No logic at all..

    Watch this video...explains better than me:



    Joe
    Last edited by TheForgiven; 09-13-2014 at 05:34 PM.
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    VERY GOOD INFORMATION! You've covered nearly the entire truther-movement complex, but I didn't want to over do it.
    Thanks for the feedback, and I am aware that I probably overdid it. But I at least wanted to let people know that there are many many points in support of the overall 911 agenda, and sadly, what has developed from it. I didn't even attempt to deal with the London 7/7/2005 Subway bombings, or the Madrid bombings of 3/11/2004, not to mention the Arab Spring, initiated on 2/11/2011. Some of these dates and numbers should be a little alarming.

    And now almost everything and anything is being done to get NATO, and a Sunni Coalition, into Syria through the back door, since they failed getting to go to war via the front door.

    A couple of months ago, I asked a group of Sunni Muslims at the coffee shop, why they weren't concerned about credible reports that the Saudi govt was funding ISIS, along with other Sunni nations of Qatar, Kuwait, and Turkey, with further evidence given by WorldNetDaily that US, Britain, France, and Israel were also funding the rebel fighters in Syria. These were smart intellectuals, two working on PhD's in AI and Math, with one in Petroleum Engineering. One wanted to debate my Christianity, so we had a very thorough discussion on historic biblical Christianity vs Islam, and also vs Roman Catholicism and vs Judaism. But they wanted to shy away from any knowledge of what might be going on from Jordan as well (their home), since training bases for ISIS were exposed there, as well as Turkey.

    After a while, you get to see what is coming down, so I went out on a limb and said to them, just wait and see, it won't be long before these ISIS jihadiis (aka ISIL, IS, AlQaeda, AlCIAda) will be the tip of NATO's spear to come back and eventually be used to attack Syria, plan B. I hardly saw them for a couple of months, being embarrassed over the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. But a couple of nights ago I asked the AI man if he remembered what I had predicted in Syria, and he said yes he did. I told him, if someone throws a rattlesnake into a bed and it bites someone, it was the rattlesnake that did the biting, but the person who threw it there is the real reason for the bite. Obviously, these insane jihadis are doing this evil, they are the rattlesnake, but they are being controlled, either willingly at the top, or mindlessly at the bottom.

    I then asked this Sunni, you know the Sunni's probably like this opportunity to wipe out the Shia's, but do you think for a second that the Sunni's aren't next? And they know that I do not like the teaching of Islam, and that I believe Mohammed is a false prophet. They also know that I do not like their Sheria law, or their desire for world conquest. And they definitely know, that, as evil as the west is acting now, Islam is just as evil, if not worse. But we were able to reason together for awhile, even though they act like they think I am a spy or something. I have tried to show them my care for them as people, just like I hope the best for all in the west.

    So, Joe, this is my reason for giving the eagle's eye view first. Maybe, as you say, it is necessary to give the worm's eye view, at the individual item level.

    dp
    Last edited by dpenn; 09-13-2014 at 06:15 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    You've got to be kidding me. This is so typical of MIB to dismiss logic and sound reasoning. Just as the warren commission of JFK insisted that the magic bullet theory was scientifically possible, yet never provided any REAL evidence to prove it; just theories, as you've done here.
    Thank you for proving my point. All you have is conspiratorial nonsense. You are the one who is positing wild "theories". I posted many irrefutable FACTS and you ignore them in your pathetic attempt to assert your theories yet again. You have NOT posted one credible fact to represent your argument. And you totally misrepresented my argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    o instead of replying to each of your factless points, I'll concentrate on a single topic.
    LMAO! What a crock. Nice dodge. Tell us again how diesel won't explode.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    You claimed that the TWC took 9 seconds to fall. Have you considered that its height would have something to do with the amount of time. When I say, "Gravity Speed", I am referring to the unrestricted collapse of each floor from top-to-bottom. And when you observe the buildings collapse, you get the sense that the buildings fell at full speed with very little resistance. PLUS you never disproved the video of WTC 7 collapsing from obvious detonation charges.

    No, I didn't. You made this erroneous claim:
    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Folks we are told that jet fuel and furniture fires caused both towers to fall at zero resistance from any lower structure. Yet both fell at gravity speed (meaning there was no resistance).

    Here was my reply.
    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    Total nonsense. If you watch any video you can clearly see the columns falling faster than the building itself. This video debunks that claim. The math doesn't lie.
    [
    Then here was your reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    What math?
    It was obvious you avoided the video on purpose. No surprise.

    Here was my reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    What math? You made this erroneous claim: Folks we are told that jet fuel and furniture fires caused both towers to fall at zero resistance from any lower structure. Yet both fell at gravity speed (meaning there was no resistance).

    I posted a video that PROVES they didn't fall at gravity speed. That would take roughly 9 seconds. They took considerably longer to fall. That is why the math doesn't lie. Your claims are meaningless.
    You asked what math. You know this math that you ignored.

    Towers= 417 meters(1368)
    417=0.5gt^2
    9.22 seconds.

    YOU are the one claiming 9.22 seconds by IGNORANTLY asserting that the towers fell at gravity.



    If the towers really fell at gravity speed it would take roughly 9.22 seconds to fall. This video shows they took much longer than 9.22 seconds to fall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4

    Your demolition charge theory is rendered bunk. Thanks for playing.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Now, if I understand your position about towers 1 and 2, you insist that the jet fuel on the top floors nearly 100 floors high burned hot enough to weaken the steel beams which torgued them so hot they eventually collapsed and caused those floors to begin its descent. BUT this DOES NOT explain the 90+ floors below which:



    1. WERE NOT SUBJECTED TO HEAT
    2. WERE NOT DAMAGED BY IMPACT
    3. WERE NOT DAMAGED BY AN IMPOSSIBLE EXPLOSION OF DIESEL FUEL FROM THE BASEMENT
    4. WERE NOT SUBJECTED TO ANY TYPE OF CONDITION WHEREBY STRUCTURAL FAILURE WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE UNRESTRICTED COLLAPSE OF IMPENDING FLOORS FROM ABOVE
    No, I NEVER said any such thing.

    Here is what I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    The jet fuel doesn't have to burn hot enough to melt the steel. It just has to burn hot enough to affect the load bearing capability of the steel before it collapses. The fires burned plenty long for that very thing to happen.
    And then you responded with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Once again, the fires were limited to the upper levels of all WTC buildings; especially towers 1 and 2. And the beams, aka structural supports, COULD NOT have weakened since they were not subjected to burning jet fuel or office fires. Therefore, ONLY THE EFFECTED floors that were burning would have the POTENTIAL for structural failure, thus causing a collapse of that section alone; NOT the entire building. Their conclusion violates the natural laws of physics, and is a fictional theory with no evidence to support its bazar claim.
    And then I clarified it:
    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    The trusses would have expanded as they heated and then contracted as they cooled. As they cooled, the trusses would have pulled the support columns inward thus causing the collapse. There was NOTHING to stop it once it started. You can call the NIST whatever you like but they actually have REAL science behind their conclusion

    And this is corroborated by the NIST. I know you claim that can't be trusted because.... Wait for it.... Another conspiracy, thus proving my point that that is all you have.


    Here are your four points.

    1. WERE NOT SUBJECTED TO HEAT They do not have to be.
    2. WERE NOT DAMAGED BY IMPACT They do not have to be.
    3. WERE NOT DAMAGED BY AN IMPOSSIBLE EXPLOSION OF DIESEL FUEL FROM THE BASEMENT You're confused, because I never said diesel played a role in WTC 1 OR 2.
    4. WERE NOT SUBJECTED TO ANY TYPE OF CONDITION WHEREBY STRUCTURAL FAILURE WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE UNRESTRICTED COLLAPSE OF IMPENDING FLOORS FROM ABOVE WHAT? Are you nuts? They had 20-30 floors collapse onto trusses that were NEVER designed to with stand that kind of force. Your comments are beyond freaking stupid. They indicate a profound IGNORANCE of the forces involved in the collapse of the building.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    I do recall you suggesting that negative pressure from the fires of the 110th floor created such a high pressures so as to cause the complete collapse of the lower floors. But as I soundly pointed out, the amount of pressure required for this condition to take place would be far larger than the negative pressures of an F5 tornado. But this would have been visible as windows on all sides of the building would have imploded inward, as well as debris would have been seen rushing inward. None of this happened. Besides, this has NEVER happened in architectural history, and thus this point is the most ridiculously absurd explanation I've ever heard. And more than 10,000 architectures disagree with you on this point, and rightly so.
    You're confused again. I NEVER said any such thing relating to towers 1 and 2. I said it regarding WTC 7.

    Here are my comments:
    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    This was because the uncontrolled fire caused upward thermal expansion(heat rises) and buckled the floor tiles causing the building to come straight down.
    Here was your reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Incredible! And this has never been proven, nor has this ever occurred on a sky scraper! Do you know how much negative pressure would be required to cause a complete catastrophic failure of the lower structures as the heat rises, for the building to fall? That's more wind or pressure produced by an F5 tornado. What you are reading, and they are proposing is complete Fiction. Negative pressure WILL NOT cause that kind of failure in the structural beams, and office fires do not burn hot enough for that to happen. And again, watch the video and you'll see for yourself, the demolition charges leading up to a Physical Science calculation in demising a building.
    I replied with this video that PROVED my point as does the NIST.






    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    SO, let's recap before I take on the next items of discussion.

    Per your position, WTC buildings 1 and 2 collapsed because jet fuel burned so damn hot that the affected beams were weakened enough to collapse. In the meantime, the hot fires from the upper floors created a magical vacuum which somehow mysteriously caused the complete failure of the 90+ floors below the burning sections, thereby contributing to the gravity-speed (or near) collapse of the complete structure. And what's important to note is that the concrete was nearly pulverized, and every car sitting nearby had its paint completely burned off. Let's just add this to Chloe's Wall of Weird!
    You misrepresent me as I have shown above. You simply don't understand any of the science of WHY the towers collapse. And worse you could care less to educate yourself about it either. You are just set on your preconceived conspiracy theories that you can't see reality for what it is.

    Also, towers NEVER fell at gravity speed. Debunk this math and video while you are at it. Don't worry I won't hold my breath.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    DID I MENTION THE CONTINUED MOLTEN STEAL FLOWING A WEEK AFTER THE COLLAPSE? THought I'd throw that in there.
    Wow. Look at all the evidence you provided. I am truly impressed. Go ahead and post your evidence so I can debunk that to.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    SO, I'd like to give you the chance to summarize from start to finish why/how towers 1 and 2 collapsed....in your own words.
    There is no need. I have already stated what I think with FACTS supporting my argument. You conveniently ignored the facts that debunk your claims. You have provided NOTHING but assertions about conspiracy theories with NOTHING of any substance supporting your arguments.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace - Jimi Hendrix


  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    VERY GOOD INFORMATION! You've covered nearly the entire truther-movement complex, but I didn't want to over do it. LOL I've found if you take one topic at a time, and debate the science and evidences of that particular aspect (Towers 1 and 2), and move progressively from there, more ground can be covered logically until the MIB (or other liars of the 911 Commission Report) will eventually find themselves looking pretty stupid with all of their weird-science explanations. Take LD67 for example. He seems to buy into the NIST reports (mixed with a few of his own I suspect) that towers 1 and 2 came down because:

    1. Jet fuel burned too hot which:
    a) Weakened the upper beams and dominoed down from there
    b) Jet Fuel apparently burned hot enough, in conjunction with material fires, which created a super-strong F5+ tornado like negative vacuum which somehow managed to cause lower-floor stuctural failure: Contributed to zero-gravity collapse
    2. A diesel engine on the basement somehow EXPLODED in conjunction with the IMPLOSION OF THE NEGATIVE PRESSURE (two opposing forces I might add), which contributed to near zero-gravity collapse.
    Joe,

    You're telling lies again. I would appreciate it if you would get your head out of your ass and actually quote me in context.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    I've been debating a few nuts on the web and it's getting easier to sniff out the MIB (Men in Black) working for the alpha-agencies. When they don't have the knowledge to debunk the truth movement, they rely on insults and youtube videos. LOL
    OMG. LMAO!

    Let me go ahead and point out what a hypocritical whacko you are.


    Post number 3 you responded to David. You rambled on about nothing and then you supply your first piece of evidence. What were they? Wait for it... Two crappy pictures and a YOUTUBE video.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    hese vans were seen on the day of 911; roughly 15 or so. These vans were assigned to a moving company known as "Urban Moving Company". Who owned these vans? Mossad Israeli intelligence agents, of which five were seen "high fiving" each other when the first plane hit. About 70 Israeli Mossad agents were arrested shortly after 911, but the FBI secretly released all of them. The five Israeli's who were arrested told CNN reporters that their mission was to document and record the incident. HOW did they know about it? And why didn't they warn the United States seeing how they knew the EXACT day and time. Watch the video below:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ImPcb4keY
    And then in post 6 another freaking youtube video as evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Watch World Trade Center 7 being brought down through Demolition charges.....CAUGHT ON CAMERA!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wZ3Gm0s5c

    If they rigged WTC 7 for demolition, then obviously the same owner (Larry Steinberg - Rothschild Zionist) had the rest of them rigged as well.

    Joe
    Bravo Joe!

    After I called you on your bullshit, then in post 7 what did you do?

    You reposted the same youtube video again.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Impossible! Are you suggesting that simple office furniture fires is enough to cause the complete cataclysmic collapse of an entire solid steel and concrete structure, and yet fall at gravity speed? Perhaps in Science Fiction this might be possible. But you know what? Let's say for the sake of argument, in the land of make believe, that you are correct. This means that corporate owners will no longer have to pay millions of dollars to have their buildings demised. Just light a few fires and BAM! The building will come down. Sorry but those who believe that fires could bring down sky scrapers are either delusional, or liars supporting 911 Liars instead of 911 Truthers.

    Now here's a video of WTC 7 collapsing during demolition charges. And since one was rigged; they ALL were rigged.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wZ3Gm0s5c
    Go on Joe tell us more.

    Here you post the same youtube video for a third time.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    And here's a better one that SHOWS WTC being destroyed by demolition charges: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wZ3Gm0s5c
    Ok, now your going to really give us the scoop.

    Oh wait.. still on post 7 you post another crappy youtube video.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    And how do you know she's a crack pot? Yes, she was unlawfully arrested and detained without a search warrant (Thanks to the Zionist Paul Wolfowitz's Patriot ACT) and held on a base for more than a year before a judge finally agreed to her release. And apparently, you haven't heard the NYPD radio transmission during the arrest of the Mossad agents driving the white van containing demolition charges, of which who all high-fived each other when the first plane hit.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huf2Kz7bV2k
    And now in post 13 you're really going to show proof of fake jet engines. Sigh.... ANother youtube video.

    Let's recap. All you have is conspiratorial nonsense from other lunatics, and crappy youtube videos that show precisely NOTHING.
    Last edited by L67; 09-13-2014 at 07:57 PM.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace - Jimi Hendrix


  7. #17
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    dp ... In the future, I hope to show the worm's eye view, or detailed look, at some of my points in my eagle's overview of the work of 911, leading up to the consequential state of the world today.

    It seems to me that we are all fiddling around while the world is burning. Or to put it another way, it is much easier to be caught up with our secular versions of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin"?, than to address the more heart wrenching real issues of our day. Or, maybe as Jesus put it, "we love to strain out a gnat, only to be guilty of swallowing a camel".

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheForgiven View Post
    Y PLUS you never disproved the video of WTC 7 collapsing from obvious detonation charges.

    Another truther conspiracy bites the dust. Joe thinks this youtube video shows the WTC7 collapsing from "obvious" detonation charges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wZ3Gm0s5c


    What he FAILED to realize is that the video was a hoax and he fell for it.

    It was a video created to show how nutty and gullible truthers really are. And boy does it ever show that.






    Here is what we know. The towers NEVER fell at gravity speed and there is no evidence for controlled demolition. His video is BUNK.


    As time permits, I will get around to debunking the ridiculous thermite claims.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace - Jimi Hendrix


  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    Another truther conspiracy bites the dust. Joe thinks this youtube video shows the WTC7 collapsing from "obvious" detonation charges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wZ3Gm0s5c


    What he FAILED to realize is that the video was a hoax and he fell for it.

    It was a video created to show how nutty and gullible truthers really are. And boy does it ever show that.




    Here is what we know. The towers NEVER fell at gravity speed and there is no evidence for controlled demolition. His video is BUNK.


    As time permits, I will get around to debunking the ridiculous thermite claims.
    Thanks for the good sleuthing L67. It is an excellent example of how easy it is for folks to fall into confirmation bias, which is common to all humans. That's what the scientific method, with things like double blind experiments, is designed to avoid and correct. It's a big interest of mine right now, since it explains how I fell into the delusion that there was a "supernatural design" in the Bible. The really interesting thing is that I quit the faith over three years ago, but have only recently begun to be able to see how selection bias created a false sense of "confirmation" of the Bible Wheel pattern. That shows how difficult it is to see your own blind spots.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    Another truther conspiracy bites the dust. Joe thinks this youtube video shows the WTC7 collapsing from "obvious" detonation charges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wZ3Gm0s5c


    What he FAILED to realize is that the video was a hoax and he fell for it.

    It was a video created to show how nutty and gullible truthers really are. And boy does it ever show that.






    Here is what we know. The towers NEVER fell at gravity speed and there is no evidence for controlled demolition. His video is BUNK.


    As time permits, I will get around to debunking the ridiculous thermite claims.
    Nice job! And it's interesting about the guy who claims to have made a fake video. While he was successful in fooling some truthers (such as myself), this was nothing more than "muddying the waters". In other words, to hide the truth, you must shame the truth with alternate truths which are nothing more than lies. The purpose is to PRETEND a truth as been debunked.

    Now the reason why I chose to stay on one topic and move to each new topic progressively is to reduce the amount of time it takes to discuss the points. Otherwise we end up replying with very long posts.

    It's obvious the man who made the fake video had his own agenda, and it was NOT to find out the truth. He likely works for an Alpha agency or some other government affiliation and is trying to flood the truth with lies mimicked to be the truth; this is typical CIA practice.

    And you have not proven anything with facts. You keep saying that but I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but your posts are being read by a few of my associates, and I'm sure they find your responses quite humorous. So, let's try this again.

    TOWERS 1 and 2

    You seem to believe that intense fires on the upper floors weakened the steal beams, while at the same time created some type of Star Trek universe negative pressure as the heat from the fire rises; some of your buddies refer to this as the "Implosion" theory, despite the fact that this has never happened in Architectural history. You also claim that the diesel engines located in the lower basement exploded (for reasons undetermined) and somehow caused the deaths which the first responders reported on (of which the 911 Zionist commission refused to accept), and that oddly, you believe diesel fuel is flammable. Yes it will burn, but not as a liquid, but as a gas. Diesel will not explode UNLESS it is mixed with air and compressed. This is the reason why diesel engines do not use spark plugs; ignition occurs from compression.

    So summing your points together, you are suggesting to all of us that BOTH TOWERS obviously suffered the same fate for the same reasons: Burning jet fuel and office furniture fatiguing the beams and generating intense heat (must have been more than 3,000 degree fahrenheit) while at the same time drawing air from the lower surface which created a negative vacuum due to the extremely air-tight windows and doors , and all in conjunction with its diesel engine explodes, resulting in the final demise of BOTH towers.

    So are we to assume that both buildings suffered the same fate in the VERY same ways?

    Now I've given you your chance to offer a short summary of how towers 1 and 2 collapsed. But it appears you (like the other whack jobs I've debated with) try focussing on arguing the merits and the posts. Notice how I didn't fall for it? Experience helps, and you're certainly not the exception.

    And don't worry; we've got plenty of time to debate each aspect of 911.

    So what's next? You find someone else who made a fake molten-steel video to ambush the truthers?

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

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