Google Ads

Google Ads

Bible Wheel Book

Google Ads

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 16 of 16

Thread: Rachav

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Olam Haba
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    You always do "ascend" to Jerusalem, or "descend" from there,

    cf. Mark 10:32-34,
    ησαν δὲ ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ ἀναβαίνοντες εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα, καὶ ἦν προάγων αὐτοὺς ὁ Ἰησοῦς, καὶ ἐθαμβοῦντο, οἱ δὲ ἀκολουθοῦντες ἐφοβοῦντο. καὶ παραλαβὼν πάλιν τοὺς δώδεκα ἤρξατο αὐτοῖς λέγειν τὰ μέλλοντα αὐτῷ συμβαίνειν, ὅτι Ἰδοὺ ἀναβαίνομεν εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα, καὶ ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου παραδοθήσεται τοῖς ἀρχιερεῦσιν καὶ τοῖς γραμματεῦσιν, καὶ κατακρινοῦσιν αὐτὸν θανάτῳ καὶ παραδώσουσιν αὐτὸν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν 34καὶ ἐμπαίξουσιν αὐτῷ καὶ ἐμπτύσουσιν αὐτῷ καὶ μαστιγώσουσιν αὐτὸν καὶ ἀποκτενοῦσιν, καὶ μετὰ τρεῖς ἡμέρας ἀναστήσεται.

    Mark 3:22,
    καὶ οἱ γραμματεῖς οἱ ἀπὸ Ἱεροσολύμων καταβάντες ἔλεγον ὅτι Βεελζεβοὺλ ἔχει, καὶ ὅτι ἐν τῷ ἄρχοντι τῶν δαιμονίων ἐκβάλλει τὰ δαιμόνια

    Interesting is that the last supper took place in an "upstairs room",
    Mark 14:15,
    καὶ αὐτὸς ὑμῖν δείξει ἀνάγαιον μέγα ἐστρωμένον ἕτοιμον: καὶ ἐκεῖ ἑτοιμάσατε ἡμῖν.

    ἀνάγαιον = upstairs-room; Hebrew "aliyah" - which figuratively means also "heaven" -- and the word is also used for immigration (to Israel). (You ascend to Israel, and descend to Egypt)

    "aliyah" also in 1Kings 17:19,
    And he said to her, "Give me your son." And she took him from her bosom, and she brought him up to the upstairs room where he was living, and he lay him on his bed.


    Upstairs room you can only reach via a ladder or stairway.

    The upstairs-room of the last supper was a κατάλυμά (Mark 14:14) = inn, night-lodging; Hebrew "malon", from "lun" = stay overnight; spend the night.

    cf. LXX Exodus 4:19,
    ἐγένετο δὲ ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ ἐν τῷ καταλύματι συνήντησεν αὐτῷ ἄγγελος κυρίου καὶ ἐζήτει αὐτὸν ἀποκτεῖναι
    The "Upper Room" comments from your previous post were also what I had in mind in my last post although I failed to mention it in my comments. As for "always ascending up" to Yerushalaim tell me how you do so when it is the seventh day of Unleavened Bread and you are already there in the physical city for the feast?

    See what I mean? There is a secondary supernal message within the text. Paul says something strange also when he writes, "But I went up, (into Yerushalaim) by revelation", (Re: Galatians 2:1-2) and the same fourteen years he mentions also in 2Cor.12:2 speaking of being caught up to the "third heaven" and Paradise.
    Last edited by toxon; 09-11-2014 at 12:41 AM.

    And David lamented with this lamentation over Sha'ul, and over Yhonathan his son, and he bade teach the sons of Yhudah the song of the bow; behold, it is written in the Book of the Upright. The Tsebiy of Yisrael is slain upon thy high places: O how the gibborim are fallen!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Enschede / Netherlands
    Posts
    2,574
    Quote Originally Posted by toxon View Post
    As for "always ascending up" to Yerushalaim tell me how you do so when it is the seventh day of Unleavened Bread and you are already there in the physical city for the feast?
    The preceding John 4 relates him being in first Samaria and then in Galilee.

    Quote Originally Posted by toxon View Post
    See what I mean? There is a secondary supernal message within the text. Paul says something strange also when he writes, "But I went up, (into Yerushalaim) by revelation", (Re: Galatians 2:1-2) and the same fourteen years he mentions also in 2Cor.12:2 speaking of being caught up to the "third heaven" and Paradise.
    2 Corinthinas 12 doesn't say that he spent fourteen years ïn the third heavenand Paradise, but πρὸ ἐτῶν δεκατεσσάρων = fourteen years ago.

    Galatians 1:15-21 relates him to be, during these forteen years, to be first in Arabia and then again in Damascus, and then in Jerusalem, and then in Syria and Cilicia.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,564
    Quote Originally Posted by toxon View Post
    This is the key to Yochanan also because if Yeshua did not go up to Yerushalaim at the second Passover mentioned in Yochanan 6, and if indeed it is the primary Passover, (Abib) then Yeshua would have broken the law and we are clearly informed that he was in Tiberias with the feeding of the five thousand at that time according to the author. Therefore it cannot have been the Passover of Abib but was indeed Pesach Sheni, (Iyyar). The ministry of Messiah is one full year from the first Passover of Yochanan 2:13 until Golgotha because the Passover of Yochanan 6 is Pesach Sheni where he was in the Galil.

    Yochanan 2:13-25 ~ Primary Passover (Abib).
    Yochanan 5:1-14 ~ 7th day of Unleavened Bread, (a Chag-Feast).
    Yochanan 6:1-15 ~ Pesach Sheni, Iyyar 14-21, (one month from Yochanan 2:13-25).
    Yochanan 7:1-14 ~ Sukkot, Tishri 15-21, (Yesua cuts the WEEK in half, Yochanan 7:14).

    2/17 Gen. 7:11, (midst of Pesach Sheni) <> 7/17 Gen. 8:4, (midst of Sukkot) = 150 DAYS/5 MONTHS.
    Hello toxon

    Have you studied the teaching of Michael Rood? I think your conclusion agrees with his. He has worked out the chronology of the Gospels and determines the ministry of Jesus lasted 70 weeks. MR says that John 6:4 is an insertion not found in earlier texts. He reckons that verse was inserted to make the chronology determined by Eusebius to fit in with a 3.5-year ministry of Jesus. This was as a result of not understanding Daniel's 70-week prophecy.

    The feeding of the 5,000 is the only miracle recorded in all four Gospels which acts to synchronize the Gospels. From this, MR has worked forward and backward to work out the chronology of the Gospel records.

    Because of Eusebius, either we are left with long periods in the ministry of Jesus in which nothing is reported or nothing happened, or we end up in a situation as you have pointed out, when Jesus would have been breaking the Torah.

    All the best
    David

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello toxon

    Have you studied the teaching of Michael Rood? I think your conclusion agrees with his. He has worked out the chronology of the Gospels and determines the ministry of Jesus lasted 70 weeks. MR says that John 6:4 is an insertion not found in earlier texts. He reckons that verse was inserted to make the chronology determined by Eusebius to fit in with a 3.5-year ministry of Jesus. This was as a result of not understanding Daniel's 70-week prophecy.

    The feeding of the 5,000 is the only miracle recorded in all four Gospels which acts to synchronize the Gospels. From this, MR has worked forward and backward to work out the chronology of the Gospel records.

    Because of Eusebius, either we are left with long periods in the ministry of Jesus in which nothing is reported or nothing happened, or we end up in a situation as you have pointed out, when Jesus would have been breaking the Torah.
    I have read that Eusebius is not trustworthy by many Christian scholars, but I must admit, I have not studied the accurateness or errors of Eusebius. And I don't know what he has to say about Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy, but I do know what Daniel 9:24-27 says, and that should be our only standard of truth. Clearly, only Jesus the Christ (the Messiah) could fulfill this prophesy:

    "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

    If Jesus was the author of this covenant, not some anti-christ, then that would be 3.5 years to His being cut off.

    Is it also possible that MR missed it (I tried but I just couldn't pull off MR mister)? Sometimes the obsession with so many today to denounce the Trinity, reminds me of the time Peter and James were arrested for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and after being threatened, they were released, upon which they quoted from Ps 2:1-2 in Acts 4:25-26,

    Psalm 2:1-12:

    "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."

    When you couple this with the most powerful prophesy of Isaiah 9:6,7:

    "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

    Add to that my Scriptures listed for the Trinity in the Jesus is God post, and I echo David, "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing"

    I am just thankful that God commands me to try to live at peace with all people, but yet to speak the truth in love.

    dp
    Last edited by dpenn; 09-11-2014 at 11:27 AM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Olam Haba
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    The preceding John 4 relates him being in first Samaria and then in Galilee.



    2 Corinthinas 12 doesn't say that he spent fourteen years ïn the third heavenand Paradise, but πρὸ ἐτῶν δεκατεσσάρων = fourteen years ago.

    Galatians 1:15-21 relates him to be, during these forteen years, to be first in Arabia and then again in Damascus, and then in Jerusalem, and then in Syria and Cilicia.
    Yochanan 4 reveals that every seventh hour of the day is a Shabbat. In addition pay close attention to the days, (for example two days are spent there). As for fourteen years spent in the third heaven and Paradise that is preposterous and I never said that or suggested it. I simply stated that Paul mentions the fourteen years again in that context. He mentions the fourteen years for a reason, (remez-pointer).

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello toxon

    Have you studied the teaching of Michael Rood? I think your conclusion agrees with his. He has worked out the chronology of the Gospels and determines the ministry of Jesus lasted 70 weeks. MR says that John 6:4 is an insertion not found in earlier texts. He reckons that verse was inserted to make the chronology determined by Eusebius to fit in with a 3.5-year ministry of Jesus. This was as a result of not understanding Daniel's 70-week prophecy.

    The feeding of the 5,000 is the only miracle recorded in all four Gospels which acts to synchronize the Gospels. From this, MR has worked forward and backward to work out the chronology of the Gospel records.

    Because of Eusebius, either we are left with long periods in the ministry of Jesus in which nothing is reported or nothing happened, or we end up in a situation as you have pointed out, when Jesus would have been breaking the Torah.

    All the best
    David
    Hi David, no I have not studied or heard any of the teachings of Michael Rood but my understanding has been available online for years now so perhaps he has seen mine? Also the various accounts of the feeding of the five thousand are not all the same event, as most people seem to think, just because similar occasions are recorded in the four accounts. The one in Yochanan occurs at Tiberias while another one occurs in the arabah-plain at the Salt Sea, not far from Tyrus, just after Yochanan the Immerser was beheaded in the Blood Moon eclipse of Sivan 23, (according to my Torah Calendar which is not Lunar but Equinoctial).

    And David lamented with this lamentation over Sha'ul, and over Yhonathan his son, and he bade teach the sons of Yhudah the song of the bow; behold, it is written in the Book of the Upright. The Tsebiy of Yisrael is slain upon thy high places: O how the gibborim are fallen!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Olam Haba
    Posts
    196
    Sorry Sylvius, you are correct, I misspoke concerning Yeshua being in Yerushalaim, (it has been a while since I have gone over this and I should have checked before writing). If you count the days including the night and a day for the discourse with Nicodemus then it ends up being the seventh day of Unleavened Bread when Yeshua arrives back in the Galil, (by way of Sychar of Samaria) and the only way for Yeshua to have "gone up to Yerushalaim" would have been in the supernal way, to ascend, as Paul also speaks, (not in the physical). However this is still lawful because Yeshua was at Yerushalaim in the physical at the opening of Unleavened Bread. It is the only conclusion that may lawfully be drawn because in the next Passover, (the Pesach Sheni Yochanan 6) Yeshua is not in Yerushalaim but at Tiberias. In order for that to be Pesach Sheni the "feast" of Yochanan 5 must be the seventh day of Unleavened Bread which is the only Chag-Feast commanded in any seventh day, (again Exodus 13:6). Since Yeshua was in Yerushalaim for the opening of Unleavened Bread, at the Passover of Yochanan 2, that is the only way the entire passage can be properly understood according to Torah. Thus the point was correct but the way I went about explaining it off the top of my head was incorrect.

    And David lamented with this lamentation over Sha'ul, and over Yhonathan his son, and he bade teach the sons of Yhudah the song of the bow; behold, it is written in the Book of the Upright. The Tsebiy of Yisrael is slain upon thy high places: O how the gibborim are fallen!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •