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  1. #1
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    Jewish kabbalists

    Did any Jewish kabbalists use gematria to "prove" that Jesus wasn't the Messiah, or to set dates for the Messiah's comming, or the redemption of Israel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by inquirer View Post
    Did any Jewish kabbalists use gematria to "prove" that Jesus wasn't the Messiah, or to set dates for the Messiah's comming, or the redemption of Israel?

    I heard from an Italian Jewish kabbalist "Jesus is the beast" because the gematria of "Yeshu Notsri" is 666 (10+300+6+50+90+200+10), written with seven letters (seven heads) ("yud-shin-vav-nun-tzade-resh-yud") with ten horns ("shin"- three horns - "tzade" two horns - the other 5 letters each one horn).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    I heard from an Italian Jewish kabbalist "Jesus is the beast" because the gematria of "Yeshu Notsri" is 666 (10+300+6+50+90+200+10), written with seven letters (seven heads) ("yud-shin-vav-nun-tzade-resh-yud") with ten horns ("shin"- three horns - "tzade" two horns - the other 5 letters each one horn).

    It would prove my point that everything turns around the name of God present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamyim" -- name that is not there when the letter "hey" of "hashishi" is missing, since the name written on the cross is not "yeshu notsri" but "yeshu hanotsri", with an extra letter "hey".


    John 19:19-20,

    ἔγραψεν δὲ καὶ τίτλον ὁ Πιλᾶτος καὶ ἔθηκεν ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ: ἦν δὲ γεγραμμένον, Ἰησοῦς Ναζωραῖος ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων. τοῦτον οὖν τὸν τίτλον πολλοὶ ἀνέγνωσαν τῶν Ἰουδαίων, ὅτι ἐγγὺς ἦν ὁ τόπος τῆς πόλεως ὅπου ἐσταυρώθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς: καὶ ἦν γεγραμμένον Ἑβραϊστί, Ῥωμαϊστί, Ἑλληνιστί.


    Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It read, “Jesus the Nazarene, the King of the Jews.” Many of the Jews read this inscription, for sthe place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek.


    Latin doesn't know defintie articles.

    In Latin: Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum, abbreviated to ( the well-known) INRI

    So in short: "The beast" is the Jesus of Christianity.
    Last edited by sylvius; 08-31-2014 at 11:42 PM.

  4. #4
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    If you want to object that his Hebrew name was not Yeshu, but Yeshua (like many do contend) or Yehoshua, then you might consider this:

    http://messiahtruth.yuku.com/sreply/...shua-in-Hebrew

    1. When a Hebrew word or name is transliterated into Greek letters, the Hebrew letter י yod is replaced by iota (I,ι) and the Hebrew letter ש shin is replaced by sigma (Σ,σ or ς at the end of a word) because the Greek language lacks both of the consonantal sounds y and sh; and, furthermore, men’s names regularly end with -s in Greek (e.g. Ἀρίσταρχος Ar*starchos, Ἀρχιμήδης Archimēdes, Μωσῆς Mōsēs, etc etc etc).

    2. The Biblical Hebrew name יְהוֹשֻֽׁעַ Y'hoshu'a started to be shortened to יֵשֽׁוּעַ Yéshu'a during the Babylonian Exile period, and this was shortened still further to יֵֽשׁוּ Yéshu in the post-Biblical period after the Return (christians sometimes claim that this form of the name is really just an insulting acronym that “stands for” the Hebrew phrase יִמַּח שְׁמוֹ וְזִכְרוֹ yimmaḥ sh'mo v'zichro “may his name and memory be blotted out”, but this simply isn’t true because nobody would ever say, for example, “Hitler yéshu”—when that phrase is used, it’s always written out or spoken in full: “Hitler yimmaḥ sh'mo v'zichro”).

    3. The combined result of 1. and 2. is that “Yéshu'a” becomes Ἰησοῦας (Iēsouas) when transliterated from Hebrew into Greek letters, and “Yéshu” becomes Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous)—and then, when these names undergo a second transliteration from Greek into Latin letters, they become respectively “Jesuas” and “J-sus” (because the initial “I” was replaced by “J” from the Middle Ages onwards).

    4. The christian mangod is consistently called Ἰησοῦς Iēsous (apparently a transliteration of the Hebrew name יֵֽשׁוּ Yéshu) throughout the new twistament, but this is only part of the story. I have been able to find fourteen Hebrew names in the T'nach that begin with the letters יְהוֹ־ (“Y'ho–”) in Hebrew, and the transliterations of these names in the pseudo-septuagint begin with Ιω– (“Io–”) in all of these 14 cases with one single, solitary exception:

    1. יְהוֹאָחָז Y'ho'aḥaz is spelt Ιωαχας (“Ioakhas”),
    2. יְהוֹאָשׁ Y'ho'ash is spelt Ιωας (“Ioas”),
    3. יְהוֹזָבָד Y'hozavad is spelt Ιωζαβεδ (“Iozabed”),
    4. יְהוֹיָכִין Y'hoyachin is spelt Ιωακιμ (“Ioakim”) [although this is actually an error],
    5. יְהוֹיָקִים Y'hoyachin is also spelt Ιωακιμ (“Ioakim”),
    6. יְהוֹנָדָב Y'honadav is spelt Ιωναδαβ (“Ioanadab”),
    7. יְהוֹנָתָן Y'honatan is spelt Ιωναθαν (“Ioanathan”),
    8. יְהוֹעַדִּין Y'ho'addin is spelt Ιωαδιν (“Ioadin”),
    9. יְהוֹצָדָק Y'hotzadak is spelt Ιωσαδακ (“Iosadak”),
    10. יְהוֹרָם Y'horam is spelt Ιωραμ (“Ioram”),
    11. יְהוֹשֶֽׁבַע Y'hosheva is spelt Ιωσαβεε (“Iosabee”),
    12. יְהוֹשַׁבְעַת Y'hoshav'at is spelt Ιωσαβεθ (“Iosabeth”), and
    13. יְהוֹשָׁפָט Y'hoshafat is spelt Ιωσαφατ (“Iosaphat”),

    BUT

    14. יְהוֹשֻֽׁעַ Y'hoshu'a is spelt Ἰησοῦς (“Iēsous”).


    In fact, יְהוֹשֻֽׁעַ Y'hoshu'a is the only Hebrew name starting with the letters יְהוֹ־ (“Y'ho–”) whose transliteration in the pseudo-septuagint doesn’t begin with Ιω– (“Io–”), which is mighty suspicious because this makes it look very much as though the spelling of the Greek transliteration of the name יְהוֹשֻֽׁעַ Y'hoshu'a has been deliberately altered to make it match the way יֵֽשׁוּ Yéshu (“J-sus”) is spelt in the additional Greek texts that christians print as a kind of “supplement” to their bibles and which they pretend are a “continuation” of the books they stole from us.

  5. #5
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    I guess Mark also plays with "Yeshu (ha)Notsri"

    Mark 1:9 Καὶ ἐγένετο ἐν ἐκείναις ταῖς ἡμέραις ἦλθεν Ἰησοῦς ἀπὸ Ναζαρὲτ τῆς Γαλιλαίας καὶ ἐβαπτίσθη εἰς τὸν Ἰορδάνην ὑπὸ Ἰωάννου.

    Ἰησοῦς ἀπὸ Ναζαρὲτ = Jesus of Nazareth = Yeshu Notsri

    Mark 16:6, ὁ δὲ λέγει αὐταῖς, Μὴ ἐκθαμβεῖσθε: Ἰησοῦν ζητεῖτε τὸν Ναζαρηνὸν τὸν ἐσταυρωμένον: ἠγέρθη, οὐκ ἔστιν ὧδε: ἴδε ὁ τόπος ὅπου ἔθηκαν αὐτόν.

    Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζαρηνὸς = Yeshu haNotsri

  6. #6
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    John 1:48 “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the fig tree.”

    The fig tree said to be the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    We saw "b'hibaram" to be the 474th word of the Hebrew bible.

    474 being gematria of "da'at"= knowledge.

    "b'hibaram" to be read as "with the letter "hey" they were created"- the letter "hey" that's also in the name "Yeshu haNotsri"



    It is about Nathanael who had asked (v.46): “Can anything from Nazareth be good?"

    Strange is that the name Nathanael doesn't occur elsewhere in NT.

  7. #7
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    Sylvie, "Trees of Righteousness", Isa61:3, makes me think of Jesus THE WORD, who became flesh, instead of b&w.. hah. Most challenging and wonderful book ever written!

    My 2nd choice would be 1K4:25 "And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon".

    Nathanael, only from John 1 and John 21, isn't listed as an apostle, but was apparently on the scene all the time, even from when they "found" Jesus to begin with. When he said (essentially) "My Lord and my God", it spoke to the contrast between him and Thomas -- and makes us aware of how some people 'believe' on the basis of very little evidence (it seems), while others, like Thomas, aren't going to take someone elses word concerning a matter of such great importance. Amen?
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    “Can anything from Nazareth be good?"
    Greek: Ἐκ Ναζαρὲτ δύναταί τι ἀγαθὸν εἶναι;

    ἀγαθός stands for Hebrew "tov" (of which we saw that the third time that it appears in the Hebrew bible it is the 153rd word from the begiining
    Just that LXX uses here "kalos", καὶ εἶδεν ὁ θεὸς ὅτι καλόν

    The tree of knowledge of good and evil in LXX is: τὸ ξύλον τοῦ εἰδέναι γνωστὸν καλοῦ καὶ πονηροῦ

    Both "kalos" and "agathos" are used in NT, also John uses both words.
    What's the difference?

    http://www.bibleteachingprogram.com/...kweb/gr4a.html

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    It would prove my point that everything turns around the name of God present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamyim" -- name that is not there when the letter "hey" of "hashishi" is missing, since the name written on the cross is not "yeshu notsri" but "yeshu hanotsri", with an extra letter "hey".


    John 19:19-20,

    ἔγραψεν δὲ καὶ τίτλον ὁ Πιλᾶτος καὶ ἔθηκεν ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ: ἦν δὲ γεγραμμένον, Ἰησοῦς Ναζωραῖος ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων. τοῦτον οὖν τὸν τίτλον πολλοὶ ἀνέγνωσαν τῶν Ἰουδαίων, ὅτι ἐγγὺς ἦν ὁ τόπος τῆς πόλεως ὅπου ἐσταυρώθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς: καὶ ἦν γεγραμμένον Ἑβραϊστί, Ῥωμαϊστί, Ἑλληνιστί.


    Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It read, “Jesus the Nazarene, the King of the Jews.” Many of the Jews read this inscription, for sthe place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek.




    Latin doesn't know defintie articles.

    In Latin: Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum, abbreviated to ( the well-known) INRI

    So in short: "The beast" is the Jesus of Christianity.
    sylvius

    After you said,

    It would prove my point that everything turns around the name of God present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamyim" --

    and then,

    ...the name written on the cross is not "yeshu notsri" but "yeshu hanotsri"


    How do you come up with,

    So in short: "The beast" is the Jesus of Christianity?

    Could you also elaborate on "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamyim"?

    dp

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    sylvius

    After you said,

    It would prove my point that everything turns around the name of God present in the initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamyim" --

    and then,

    ...the name written on the cross is not "yeshu notsri" but "yeshu hanotsri"


    How do you come up with,

    So in short: "The beast" is the Jesus of Christianity?

    Could you also elaborate on "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamyim"?

    dp

    Christianity sticks to "Jesus of Nazareth", as an historical figure.

    The name of God doesn't occur in the first story of creation, except for hidden inthe initial letters of "yom hashishi vay'chulu hashamayim", the last two words of Genesis 1:31 and the first two words of Genesis 2:1, exactly at the completion of creation.

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