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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Hi Richard:

    Really? You blew be off like you do not understand that the book a serpent and the rainbow has alot more info in it than the drugs issue. The doctor's life became affected and he was NOT doing the drugs! You really need to stop acting like my questions are not worth thinking about....

    As to yuwipi ceremonies... Randi has never proven one to be false! And your contention that a little rattle is no big deal to fake... what about the lights in the air the bound up man with hands bound... I will tell you that it is not completely dark in the room and you can see if there are people helping to untie him.... and for you to act like you can disregard all that info in one fell swoop and go to myths in Islam... well you are trying hard to avoid the subject!

    Namaste,

    Mystykal
    Good morning Mystykal,

    I am not saying your questions are not worthy talking about. My point is that mere story telling is not the same thing as evidence. You appeal to stories that cannot be confirmed as true. Therefore, they do not prove what you are trying to prove. That's all.

    I don't understand why you keep pushing the yuwipi as proof of anything. Flying rattles? That sounds ridiculous. Why can't they provide any evidence? Because the stories are almost certainly fake like all the others that have been totally debunked.

    You passionately believe things that appear to be irrational and have never been able to provide any evidence that I can test. So what am I to do? Are you really saying that I should believe every supernatural claim I hear? That would make me a complete fool. So what do you want me to do? I can't say I believe things that look irrational and have no proof.

    Great chatting,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  2. #152
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    Moved posts to new thread

    FYI - I moved all the posts concerning the meaning of historical biblical Christianity to a thread of its own.

    What is Historical Biblical Christianity?

    I would like to keep this thread on the topic of the Bible Wheel, Numerology, and Cognitive Bias.

    Thank you for your cooperation!

    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #153
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    dp:

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    FYI - I moved all the posts concerning the meaning of historical biblical Christianity to a thread of its own.

    What is Historical Biblical Christianity?

    I would like to keep this thread on the topic of the Bible Wheel, Numerology, and Cognitive Bias.

    Thank you for your cooperation!

    Richard,

    yea, knowing the way we go at it, if you were to respond to more of my points we would probably highjack your thread.

    btw, I also felt that one other time, in particular, when sylvius and I kind of took over duxrow's thread on Biblical Studies, Jacob to Joseph, beginning about p 9, #88 or so. Is it possible for you to create a new thread called "Daniel 9:24-27", under Biblical Studies, and move from #88 to the end on p 15?

    I am assuming I don't have the authority to do something like this.
    dp:

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    Richard,

    yea, knowing the way we go at it, if you were to respond to more of my points we would probably highjack your thread.

    btw, I also felt that one other time, in particular, when sylvius and I kind of took over duxrow's thread on Biblical Studies, Jacob to Joseph, beginning about p 9, #88 or so. Is it possible for you to create a new thread called "Daniel 9:24-27", under Biblical Studies, and move from #88 to the end on p 15?

    I am assuming I don't have the authority to do something like this.
    I moved the posts to the new thread here: Daniel 9:24-27.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Good morning Mystykal,

    I am not saying your questions are not worthy talking about. My point is that mere story telling is not the same thing as evidence. You appeal to stories that cannot be confirmed as true. Therefore, they do not prove what you are trying to prove. That's all.

    I don't understand why you keep pushing the yuwipi as proof of anything. Flying rattles? That sounds ridiculous. Why can't they provide any evidence? Because the stories are almost certainly fake like all the others that have been totally debunked.

    You passionately believe things that appear to be irrational and have never been able to provide any evidence that I can test. So what am I to do? Are you really saying that I should believe every supernatural claim I hear? That would make me a complete fool. So what do you want me to do? I can't say I believe things that look irrational and have no proof.

    Great chatting,

    Richard
    Hi Richard:

    I'm glad you backed down a little... Let me suggest that you can take each idea a step at a time and use the process of elimination to figure out what is real and what is not...

    I don't understand why you keep pushing the yuwipi as proof of anything. Flying rattles? That sounds ridiculous. Why can't they provide any evidence? Because the stories are almost certainly fake like all the others that have been totally debunked.

    so let's understand that Spirits either exist or they do not. To ASSUME that they DO NOT is to then just bury your head in the sand. I keep an open mind about it. I try and understand what we might be looking at instead of suggesting that all spiritual stuff like angels and god and jesus and holy spirit and the likes is just FAKE! If all things spiritual are fake then GOD is fake period. Does not matter which god you might be talking about!...
    No angels? Then Satan previously called Lucifer or some other name is FAKE as well... Is that what you believe? NO Evidence? NONE? so Fake?


    My point is that mere story telling is not the same thing as evidence. You appeal to stories that cannot be confirmed as true.
    So, What then? My personal experiences mean nothing? So then you should send yourself or Randi or who ever you trust to seach out these things for let's say 50 years and do double blind studies and see if some of these reports do not hold up to the strictest scrutiny! Until then, your argument is invalid. Evidence is only gained in your life from personal experience!


    You are entitled to your position but it proves nothing! Get out there and EXPERIENCE the event for yourself! I did it and I came away with the understanding that the Spiritual world is real...


    Namaste,

    Mystykal
    Mystykal

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Hi Richard:

    I'm glad you backed down a little... Let me suggest that you can take each idea a step at a time and use the process of elimination to figure out what is real and what is not...
    Good morning Mystykal,

    What did I say that made you think I am "backing down"? Backing down from what? I am not aware of any change in my attitude or beliefs in the last post. All I did was clarify what I meant in the previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    so let's understand that Spirits either exist or they do not. To ASSUME that they DO NOT is to then just bury your head in the sand. I keep an open mind about it. I try and understand what we might be looking at instead of suggesting that all spiritual stuff like angels and god and jesus and holy spirit and the likes is just FAKE! If all things spiritual are fake then GOD is fake period. Does not matter which god you might be talking about!...
    No angels? Then Satan previously called Lucifer or some other name is FAKE as well... Is that what you believe? NO Evidence? NONE? so Fake?
    I do not "assume" that there are no spirits of any kind. But neither do I simply believe every claim that comes down the pike. And more importantly, such claims have frequently been shown to be the product of either deliberate deception or cognitive bias. I have never, as yet, seen any reason to believe that there are spirits that can cause rattles to fly around, tables to levitate, trumpets to blow. One famous case is from 1924 when Houdini exposed the charlatan spiritual medium Mina Crandon who was a total fraud. Read about it here. There a thousands of people who make such claims, and none have every been confirmed and many have been proven deliberate frauds. The only rational response is to be skeptical.

    I keep an open mind about these things. I think you are the one who has his head in the sand since you ignore the evidence that shows such claims are usually fraudulent or delusional. You have never presented anything but anecdotes as evidence. I do not find those stories compelling because they sound like all the other claims that have been proven false.

    I think nothing could be more obvious than that the biblegod is "fake" in the sense of "not real." Just look at how he is described in the Bible. He reflects the primitive morals, selfishness, mythology, and faulty understanding of ignorant men who lived thousands of years ago.

    And just so you know: The Hebrew and Greek Bible knows nothing of any "Lucifier." That's nothing but a faulty translation imported into the KJV from the Latin Vulgate. I've explained this at least a dozen times on this forum, most recently on August 29, just last month here. I'm surprised you missed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    So, What then? My personal experiences mean nothing? So then you should send yourself or Randi or who ever you trust to seach out these things for let's say 50 years and do double blind studies and see if some of these reports do not hold up to the strictest scrutiny! Until then, your argument is invalid. Evidence is only gained in your life from personal experience!


    You are entitled to your position but it proves nothing! Get out there and EXPERIENCE the event for yourself! I did it and I came away with the understanding that the Spiritual world is real...
    Personal experience, when it comes to things like magic, fairies, miracles, and anything supernatural, is notoriously unreliable. People are easily fooled both by deliberate frauds and the biases of their own mind.

    You are free to believe what you like but if you have no evidence, why would you expect anyone to agree? You have presented the outrageously improbable claims of Roger Morneau as if they were incontrovertible facts. When I explained why I considered his claims to be blatantly absurd, you let the matter drop. You didn't even try to answer the points I raised. Fine. No need to belabor that point. But if you cannot defend your claims, what right do you have to continue asserting that the problem lies with me and my supposed closed mind? You are the one making the claims, so the burden of proof lies with you. My mind is not closed. I am open to review any evidence you care to provide. As it stands, you have never presented anything that would give a rational person a reason to believe in the supernatural.

    So chill out already!

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Good morning Mystykal,

    What did I say that made you think I am "backing down"? Backing down from what? I am not aware of any change in my attitude or beliefs in the last post. All I did was clarify what I meant in the previous post.


    I do not "assume" that there are no spirits of any kind. But neither do I simply believe every claim that comes down the pike. And more importantly, such claims have frequently been shown to be the product of either deliberate deception or cognitive bias. I have never, as yet, seen any reason to believe that there are spirits that can cause rattles to fly around, tables to levitate, trumpets to blow. One famous case is from 1924 when Houdini exposed the charlatan spiritual medium Mina Crandon who was a total fraud. Read about it here. There a thousands of people who make such claims, and none have every been confirmed and many have been proven deliberate frauds. The only rational response is to be skeptical.

    I keep an open mind about these things. I think you are the one who has his head in the sand since you ignore the evidence that shows such claims are usually fraudulent or delusional. You have never presented anything but anecdotes as evidence. I do not find those stories compelling because they sound like all the other claims that have been proven false.

    I think nothing could be more obvious than that the biblegod is "fake" in the sense of "not real." Just look at how he is described in the Bible. He reflects the primitive morals, selfishness, mythology, and faulty understanding of ignorant men who lived thousands of years ago.

    And just so you know: The Hebrew and Greek Bible knows nothing of any "Lucifier." That's nothing but a faulty translation imported into the KJV from the Latin Vulgate. I've explained this at least a dozen times on this forum, most recently on August 29, just last month here. I'm surprised you missed it.


    Personal experience, when it comes to things like magic, fairies, miracles, and anything supernatural, is notoriously unreliable. People are easily fooled both by deliberate frauds and the biases of their own mind.

    You are free to believe what you like but if you have no evidence, why would you expect anyone to agree? You have presented the outrageously improbable claims of Roger Morneau as if they were incontrovertible facts. When I explained why I considered his claims to be blatantly absurd, you let the matter drop. You didn't even try to answer the points I raised. Fine. No need to belabor that point. But if you cannot defend your claims, what right do you have to continue asserting that the problem lies with me and my supposed closed mind? You are the one making the claims, so the burden of proof lies with you. My mind is not closed. I am open to review any evidence you care to provide. As it stands, you have never presented anything that would give a rational person a reason to believe in the supernatural.

    So chill out already!

    Richard
    Hey Richard!

    Wow ! Your logic fails me! I said "Go out there and get your own evidence!" You once again started talking about houdini I know all those stories... Alot of fakes do not disprove the true! And no amount of evidence will ever change your mind! So you keep arguing in circles. And by the way if you qouted me correctly I NEVER said Lucifer was his ACTUAL name... I said he is called Lucifer or whatever name he used to have... Are you so out of your mind that you try and suggest that I do not know that the word Lucifer is from the bogus Latin? Really? Get real! Please stop bringing up Roger Morneau. I understand all his evidence is not worth it in your opinion because he is not here to defend his claims... So drop it already!

    Back to YUWIPI... Do you just believe something is false without investigating it. You say personal experience does not prove anything... ok. Then what does? The spiritual realm is not a math formula.... How else do you investigate if you are unwilling to go and EXPERIENCE the event?...


    Namaste,


    Mystykal
    Mystykal

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Hey Richard!

    Wow ! Your logic fails me! I said "Go out there and get your own evidence!" You once again started talking about houdini I know all those stories... Alot of fakes do not disprove the true! And no amount of evidence will ever change your mind! So you keep arguing in circles.
    Good morning Mystykal,

    You said a lot more than "Go out there and get your evidence." I was responding to those other comments (as you can see if you read what I wrote).

    I never said that the number of fakes disproves the is true. Such comments are quite silly since they have nothing to do with anything I have written.

    We are indeed going in circles because you are not responding to the words I actually wrote.

    Your assertion that "no amount of evidence will every change my mind" is both false and absurd. If there were EVIDENCE it would obviously change my mind. The whole problem is that there is no evidence.

    You say I should "Go out there and get your evidence." I've already done that. I did it for years. You merely don't like the fact that I have come to a different conclusion than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    And by the way if you qouted me correctly I NEVER said Lucifer was his ACTUAL name... I said he is called Lucifer or whatever name he used to have... Are you so out of your mind that you try and suggest that I do not know that the word Lucifer is from the bogus Latin? Really? Get real!
    Here is what you wrote:
    No angels? Then Satan previously called Lucifer or some other name is FAKE as well... Is that what you believe?
    You straight up referred to Satan as "previously called Lucifer." If you knew he was never actually called Lucifer in the Bible, why did you say that? The name "Lucifer" is certainly "fake."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Please stop bringing up Roger Morneau. I understand all his evidence is not worth it in your opinion because he is not here to defend his claims... So drop it already!
    You brought him up originally. I researched him and found he must be delusional, deceptive, or both. You never responded to the evidence I presented. Why not? I'm guessing this is how you protect your beliefs. You ignore the evidence and choose to believe exceedingly unlikely stories that are indistinguishable from the kind that have been proven fake.

    So why should I stop bringing him up? You brought him up first and have not responded to the evidence I presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Back to YUWIPI... Do you just believe something is false without investigating it. You say personal experience does not prove anything... ok. Then what does? The spiritual realm is not a math formula.... How else do you investigate if you are unwilling to go and EXPERIENCE the event?...
    Science, logic and facts, is the most effective method ever devised to discern between true and false claims about phenomena in the real world. You claim goblins, ghosts, demons, and fairies are real but you can't prove a word of it. So what then does "real" mean to you? In your world, do spirits have little "skeptic detectors" so they hide from everyone except believers?

    Faith opens a person to delusion. That's why all the cults say you gotta "believe" or you won't be able to see their supernatural claims are true. That's the key Mystykal. It is the essence of how all the cults work. It is the key to delusion. You must "believe" and only then you will see "miracles."

    If you begin by believing things with no evidence, it is no mystery that you continue to believe things with no evidence.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Good morning Mystykal,

    You said a lot more than "Go out there and get your evidence." I was responding to those other comments (as you can see if you read what I wrote).

    I never said that the number of fakes disproves the is true. Such comments are quite silly since they have nothing to do with anything I have written.

    We are indeed going in circles because you are not responding to the words I actually wrote.

    Your assertion that "no amount of evidence will every change my mind" is both false and absurd. If there were EVIDENCE it would obviously change my mind. The whole problem is that there is no evidence.

    You say I should "Go out there and get your evidence." I've already done that. I did it for years. You merely don't like the fact that I have come to a different conclusion than you.


    Here is what you wrote:
    No angels? Then Satan previously called Lucifer or some other name is FAKE as well... Is that what you believe?
    You straight up referred to Satan as "previously called Lucifer." If you knew he was never actually called Lucifer in the Bible, why did you say that? The name "Lucifer" is certainly "fake."


    You brought him up originally. I researched him and found he must be delusional, deceptive, or both. You never responded to the evidence I presented. Why not? I'm guessing this is how you protect your beliefs. You ignore the evidence and choose to believe exceedingly unlikely stories that are indistinguishable from the kind that have been proven fake.

    So why should I stop bringing him up? You brought him up first and have not responded to the evidence I presented.


    Science, logic and facts, is the most effective method ever devised to discern between true and false claims about phenomena in the real world. You claim goblins, ghosts, demons, and fairies are real but you can't prove a word of it. So what then does "real" mean to you? In your world, do spirits have little "skeptic detectors" so they hide from everyone except believers?

    Faith opens a person to delusion. That's why all the cults say you gotta "believe" or you won't be able to see their supernatural claims are true. That's the key Mystykal. It is the essence of how all the cults work. It is the key to delusion. You must "believe" and only then you will see "miracles."

    If you begin by believing things with no evidence, it is no mystery that you continue to believe things with no evidence.

    All the best,

    Richard
    Hi Richard:

    Thank you for your response!


    I guess I must live on a different planet than you or you really are not trying to understand me! YOU say:
    you are not responding to the words I actually wrote.
    Really?... I thought I was... so let's see... You said that Evidence is not present for ghosts and spirits... I say that there is plenty of evidence if you are looking! The fact that you have arrived at another opposite conclusion than me does not bother me! I just do not see how you did that IF you ever investigated the "woohoo" side of things. To just ignore things because other similar things are false is silly. Yuwipi ceremonies must be approached with an open mind... I do not think that Randi or yourself have ever been to one! That's why I keep bringing it up... The evidence is there if you look!

    As to Roger M. you said:
    "You brought him up originally. I researched him and found he must be delusional, deceptive, or both. You never responded to the evidence I presented. Why not? I'm guessing this is how you protect your beliefs. You ignore the evidence and choose to believe exceedingly unlikely stories that are indistinguishable from the kind that have been proven fake.

    So why should I stop bringing him up? You brought him up first and have not responded to the evidence I presented.

    What evidence did you present? NONE! you made some comments about how silly he sounds and his connections to Demon cults/secrect societies is outrageous you say.... But I did not see any EVIDENCE presented by you that his claims are false... You do not make sense to me about how you determine what is evidence and what is not....

    Faith opens a person to delusion. That's why all the cults say you gotta "believe" or you won't be able to see their supernatural claims are true.
    Faith is NOT what cults use! They use delusional thinking! Period.... There remains Faith, Hope and Love! Do you think love is fake too?

    Namaste,

    Mystykal
    Mystykal

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