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Thread: spoke 17

  1. #1
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    spoke 17

    Jeremiah 17:15
    Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now.
    John 17:24
    Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
    2 Peter 3:4
    And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    Malachi 3:2
    But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
    2 Peter 3:4
    And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
    Last edited by gilgal; 07-29-2008 at 07:18 PM.

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    Nice link Gilgal! The second one, "of his coming", has been documented by Richard in the article Where is the Promise of His Coming?.

    The first one was not very easy to understand at first. But now I see it. The two verses exhibit the same defying attitude common to Spoke 17.
    Jeremiah 17:15
    Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now.
    2 Peter 3:4 (Spoke 17)
    And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
    Now the reference to John 17:24 has no link that I can see. The mere "where" does not link to anything by itself, and the idea is distinct.

    Thank you for your outpour of links!
    Victor

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    Thanks Victor!

    I was building a search engine where you can check a few verses and search. If the the result render 4 or more words in a verse elsewhere it would show.

    Unfortunately I don't have this search engine online yet. It's taking months to get to what I want. Also I'm having difficulty uploading the bible db and connecting to it on the servers.
    Last edited by gilgal; 07-29-2008 at 07:18 PM.

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    Saturn the "unknown god" or hidden god.

    This week I read in several places that the altar to whom the unknown god was dedicated to in Acts 17 in Athens was actually the altar of Saturn where there was no image thought of.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but here are google results.

    Saturn means hidden. It's an interesting word. Saturn in Hebrew Satur is spelled out Samech Tav Vav Resh. The numerical value is 60+400+6+200=666.

    It's curious for me to find out that the altar dedicated to the unknown god is mentioned in the inner wheel of Acts Spoke 17.

    It is known that the book of Esther has no mentioning of God anywhere. And the name Esther is a variation of the word Satur mentioned above meaning hidden written Aleph Samech Tav Vav Resh.

    Another word mentioned in Acts 17 and Esther is Mars/Mordechai. I don't know what the significance of it's mentioning is. Mars is the god of war. Mordechai is a variation of it, also Marduk or Merodach I believe was also found in Spoke 17 (Isaiah 39).

    Also Alexander Hislop mentioned that Rome was once known as Saturn or Satur by Babelonians.

    The name to which I refer is the name of the Latin god Consus,

    who was in one aspect identified with Neptune, but who was also regarded as "the god of hidden

    counsels," or "the concealer of secrets," who was looked up to as the patron of horsemanship,

    and was said to have produced the horse. Who could be the "god of h idden counsels," or the

    "concealer of secrets," but Saturn, the god of the "mysteries," and whose name as used at Rome,

    signified "The hidden one"?
    Hislop
    And the word mystery reminds me to look a bit further in this subject. The Hebrew word for it is MSTUR or Mem Samech Tav Vav Resh which mean from hiding. This is is mentioned at least 22 times in the New Testament. But especially in Revelation 17 Spoke 17 concerning the woman Mystery Babylon.
    Last edited by gilgal; 07-29-2008 at 07:18 PM.

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    Spoke 17: The S-T-R root, Mystery, the Book of Esther, Acts 17 and Revelation 17

    Hey gilgal, what an impressive post! I have always linked the "unknown god" of Acts 17 to God's hiding His face in Book 17, Esther. It is just so obvious and beautiful...

    Now you add something about Saturn. Let's see.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    This week I read in several places that the altar to whom the unknown god was dedicated to in Acts 17 in Athens was actually the altar of Saturn where there was no image thought of.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but here are google results.

    Saturn means hidden. It's an interesting word. Saturn in Hebrew Satur is spelled out Samech Tav Vav Resh. The numerical value is 60+400+6+200=666.

    It's curious for me to find out that the altar dedicated to the unknown god is mentioned in the inner wheel of Acts Spoke 17.
    Well, I think we first really need to double check and know for sure if there is someone out there who thinks there is good reason to believe that the "unknown god" may be Saturn. Do you have any specific information or link about it from some study source?

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    It is known that the book of Esther has no mentioning of God anywhere. And the name Esther is a variation of the word Satur mentioned above meaning hidden written Aleph Samech Tav Vav Resh.
    Esther is linked to the S-T-R (hidden) root. It is really interesting that Saturn has the same letter sequence (plus an N that is appended to the Hebrew form of Nero which adds to 666).

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Another word mentioned in Acts 17 and Esther is Mars/Mordechai. I don't know what the significance of it's mentioning is. Mars is the god of war. Mordechai is a variation of it, also Marduk or Merodach I believe was also found in Spoke 17 (Isaiah 39).
    Now that's another great insight! The Areopagus of Acts 17 was also known as Mars' Hill and the name of the god of war Mars comes from the same root of Mordechai, named after Mars!

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    And the word mystery reminds me to look a bit further in this subject. The Hebrew word for it is MSTUR or Mem Samech Tav Vav Resh which mean from hiding. This is is mentioned at least 22 times in the New Testament. But especially in Revelation 17 Spoke 17 concerning the woman Mystery Babylon.
    Great! It is really interesting that one of the words for "secret" in Hebrew is Mistar (S#4564) that comes from the same S-T-R root of Esther. And it is phonetically similar to the Greek Misterion and the English Mystery!

    But there is more: misterion comes from the root muo, which means "to shut the mouth," and Mouth is the literal meaning of the letter Pey which governs Spoke 17! Therefore the last time this word appears is in Revelation 17, where Mystery Babylon is described. There's a lot to say here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    But there is more: misterion comes from the root muo, which means "to shut the mouth," and Mouth is the literal meaning of the letter Pey which governs Spoke 17! Therefore the last time this word appears is in Revelation 17, where Mystery Babylon is described. There's a lot to say here.
    I'm thinking that this woman that rides on the beast is the body of mystery religions that existed throughout the centuries. It's far greater than the Roman Catholic institution. Masonry for example being one of the orders has members that vow to keep their works and initiations secret. And whoever reveals their secrets should be killed.

    When we study the biblical history:
    • God sent plagues over Egypt. Each plague was a mockery to the gods of Egypt;
    • Israel was condemned for worshiping the golden calf in the wilderness;
    • They carried the star of Remphan with them;
    • and so on...

    This shows that the mystery religions always existed in Israel. And God was always against them. They made alliances with the surrounding nations. Ahab the king fo Israel took Jezebel from Tyre (or Sidon?). The daughter of Ahab Athaliah was given to Jehoshaphat king of Judah. Athaliah slew all the king's seed except for one.

    And when we look at this Mystery, Babylon it says:
    Revelation 18
    24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
    I began a thread specially for the book of Esther.
    Last edited by gilgal; 07-29-2008 at 07:19 PM.

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    Spoke 17: Epicureans, stoicks and agnostics

    Gilgal,

    The naturalistic thinking and attitude displayed on Spoke 17 that we discussed above is further linked to Acts 17. In this chapter we find a unique reference to two Greek groups of philosophers:
    Act 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
    Both groups had a very low view of God. The Epicureans didn't believe the world was created by God and the Stoicks held God as a sort of "animating principle" of the universe. The unique mention of these groups in the Bible perfectly correlate with the spirit of Spoke 17: God hiding His Face, the "where is him?" attitude and all this God-denying world view.

    This further manifests in the altar the Athenians built to the "Unknown God":
    Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN [agnóstos] GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
    The Greek for "unknown" is agnóstos, whence the word "agnostic" that designates those today that believe that if there is a God, He is "unknown of".

    Do you have any reliable source that relates the "unknown God" to Saturn?

    Victor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Gilgal,

    The naturalistic thinking and attitude displayed on Spoke 17 that we discussed above is further linked to Acts 17. In this chapter we find a unique reference to two Greek groups of philosophers:
    Act 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
    Both groups had a very low view of God. The Epicureans didn't believe the world was created by God and the Stoicks held God as a sort of "animating principle" of the universe. The unique mention of these groups in the Bible perfectly correlate with the spirit of Spoke 17: God hiding His Face, the "where is him?" attitude and all this God-denying world view.

    This further manifests in the altar the Athenians built to the "Unknown God":
    Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN [agnóstos] GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
    The Greek for "unknown" is agnóstos, whence the word "agnostic" that designates those today that believe that if there is a God, He is "unknown of".

    Do you have any reliable source that relates the "unknown God" to Saturn?

    Victor
    Well the one that mentioned it was Alexander Hislop:
    The name to which I refer is the name of the Latin god Consus,

    who was in one aspect identified with Neptune, but who was also regarded as "the god of hidden

    counsels," or "the concealer of secrets," who was looked up to as the patron of horsemanship,

    and was said to have produced the horse. Who could be the "god of h idden counsels," or the

    "concealer of secrets," but Saturn, the god of the "mysteries," and whose name as used at Rome,

    signified "The hidden one"?
    Hislop
    http://www.iusedtoloveher.com/ebooks...&keyword=satur
    I inserted a search engine for you to look into this online book, The Two Babylons.

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    Hislop's sloppy work

    Quote Originally Posted by gilgal View Post
    Well the one that mentioned it was Alexander Hislop:

    http://www.iusedtoloveher.com/ebooks...&keyword=satur
    I inserted a search engine for you to look into this online book, The Two Babylons.
    Hey gilgal,

    There is a number of problems with that.

    First of all, "The Two Babylons" is an awful book. It is full of poor scholarship, logical fallacies and stuff. I remember once reading a portion of the book linking the origin of the Trinity doctrine to Ninrod and his family.

    Secondly, even it were trustworthy, it is still problematic because he provides zero evidence that Saturn means hidden (though it reminds me of the str Hebrew root).

    Third, even if he did, he does in no way show how Saturn is the god to whom the altar of the unknown god was dedicated.

    So we're still looking for some source that can support this claim. But all the other links we've pointed out are valid nonetheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Hey gilgal,

    There is a number of problems with that.

    First of all, "The Two Babylons" is an awful book. It is full of poor scholarship, logical fallacies and stuff. I remember once reading a portion of the book linking the origin of the Trinity doctrine to Nimrod and his family.
    There is Satan's Trinity: the Father, Mother and Son. It is taught in the occult.

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