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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Originally Posted by Rose
    So, now you are comparing yourself to the mentality of an animal?

    All humans share humanness and as such should be afforded equal human rights!



    According to Evolution, when did humans stop being animals?

    Put the question another way. What was the single change at which point humanness began?
    Come on David! I thought you were more intelligent than that. You know perfectly well what I speaking of when I said that to Cheow. To refresh your memory I posted his quote below:

    Originally Posted by CWH
    Look at the animal kingdom and tell me which kind of animals are there equality in gender. There will still be a leader of the pack which is usually the alpha male; to a small extent the alpha female. And that system has been going on for the so call millions of years. Blame it on your Evolution God for the survival of the fittest and natural selection! Humans have been living for the supposed several million years and yet still cannot achieve equal rights for gender.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
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  2. #42
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    Hello Rose
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Come on David! I thought you were more intelligent than that. You know perfectly well what I speaking of when I said that to Cheow. To refresh your memory I posted his quote below:
    I am picking up on the point that the discussion is referring to animals and humanness. The questions I have asked are not just aimed at you, they are questions of general interest related to humans and animals and whether you make a distinction because of humanness.

    In post #14 I quote you:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Human are animals
    Cheow later asked you questions which I picked up on;
    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    How dense are you? Are we not animals call Homo Sapiens? And are we not related to the Great Apes?
    Regarding my intelligence, your original estimation was correct. On the other hand, it is Cheow that is questioning your intelligence. I am merely posting some questions that Evolutionist can give the answers to (if they can).

    All the best

    David

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose

    I am picking up on the point that the discussion is referring to animals and humanness. The questions I have asked are not just aimed at you, they are questions of general interest related to humans and animals and whether you make a distinction because of humanness.

    In post #14 I quote you:
    Originally Posted by Rose
    Human are animals

    Cheow later asked you questions which I picked up on;
    Originally Posted by CWH
    How dense are you? Are we not animals call Homo Sapiens? And are we not related to the Great Apes?

    Regarding my intelligence, your original estimation was correct. On the other hand, it is Cheow that is questioning your intelligence. I am merely posting some questions that Evolutionist can give the answers to (if they can).

    All the best

    David
    Of course we are animals David, and you know perfectly well that was not the point of Cheows post, so why don't you quite wasting everyone's time repeating his frivolous stupidities.

    Humans are the only self-conscious animals on the planet with the ability to use our brains for reason ... that is why we know the meaning of justice and fairness. We also know that all humans share humanness, and therefore should be afforded equal human rights.

    Cheow will make up, and say stupid stuff like "there's no gender equality in the animal kingdom" to try and show that women should not have equal human rights! I don't have a clue as to why you want to jump onboard his bandwagon???
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  4. #44
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    Hello Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Of course we are animals David, and you know perfectly well that was not the point of Cheows post, so why don't you quite wasting everyone's time repeating his frivolous stupidities.

    Humans are the only self-conscious animals on the planet with the ability to use our brains for reason ... that is why we know the meaning of justice and fairness. We also know that all humans share humanness, and therefore should be afforded equal human rights.

    Cheow will make up, and say stupid stuff like "there's no gender equality in the animal kingdom" to try and show that women should not have equal human rights! I don't have a clue as to why you want to jump onboard his bandwagon???
    I did not intend to make this a protracted discussion in this thread. I have sowed the seed for questions that need to be answered by Evolutionists and perhaps a new thread can be started to discuss that subject.

    In the meantime, what do you have listed as human rights? Maybe we should see the list and decide what is missing off that list or what should not be included.

    Is there no circumstance you can see that women's rights are different to men's rights?


    As one example of a right women do not have in the Bible is for women to be a priest; at least not in temple service. I will stand corrected, if I am mistaken.

    If God has decreed it is the responsibility and role for man to be head of the woman and to serve the Lord in the formal temple ceremonies, then it is not denying women human rights, even if we allow for God being biased in setting man above the woman for the sake of hierarchy.

    When Jesus was "made lower than the Angels" (in whatever way you understand that) did Jesus complain to God for making him that way? Was God discriminating? We have to get these accusations into context. If the roles had been reversed, we would be arguing against male bias in the Bible. Either way, God cannot win in the primitive minds of humanists. That is not the case. I say that God is not biased against women purely because of their gender. Women have played prominent roles in the Bible and some of the best people have been shown to be women. It cannot be the case that God is biased against women.

    Both male and female play their part and God made man first and that order is maintained. In the kingdom of God to come, who is to say what will happen? Maybe there will be no gender; everyone one will be neuter with no reproductive organs. Any form of bias you think is shown now, will be done away with in the kingdom. Is it bias for rewarding people according to achievement? The reward of eternal life is given by grace. The ruling positions occupied in the kingdom in which Christ rules, is given to those who have shown the greatest faith, or sacrificed themselves the most. The disciples were told they would be seated on the 12 thrones. Is that bias, or discrimination, or what?


    This is really about human rights in general and nothing to do with the Bible. Let the feminists argue their human rights on the humanist level against men who are humanists and for women to argue with their peers.

    All the best
    David

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose



    I did not intend to make this a protracted discussion in this thread. I have sowed the seed for questions that need to be answered by Evolutionists and perhaps a new thread can be started to discuss that subject.

    In the meantime, what do you have listed as human rights? Maybe we should see the list and decide what is missing off that list or what should not be included.

    Is there no circumstance you can see that women's rights are different to men's rights?


    As one example of a right women do not have in the Bible is for women to be a priest; at least not in temple service. I will stand corrected, if I am mistaken.

    If God has decreed it is the responsibility and role for man to be head of the woman and to serve the Lord in the formal temple ceremonies, then it is not denying women human rights, even if we allow for God being biased in setting man above the woman for the sake of hierarchy.

    When Jesus was "made lower than the Angels" (in whatever way you understand that) did Jesus complain to God for making him that way? Was God discriminating? We have to get these accusations into context. If the roles had been reversed, we would be arguing against male bias in the Bible. Either way, God cannot win in the primitive minds of humanists. That is not the case. I say that God is not biased against women purely because of their gender. Women have played prominent roles in the Bible and some of the best people have been shown to be women. It cannot be the case that God is biased against women.

    Both male and female play their part and God made man first and that order is maintained. In the kingdom of God to come, who is to say what will happen? Maybe there will be no gender; everyone one will be neuter with no reproductive organs. Any form of bias you think is shown now, will be done away with in the kingdom. Is it bias for rewarding people according to achievement? The reward of eternal life is given by grace. The ruling positions occupied in the kingdom in which Christ rules, is given to those who have shown the greatest faith, or sacrificed themselves the most. The disciples were told they would be seated on the 12 thrones. Is that bias, or discrimination, or what?


    This is really about human rights in general and nothing to do with the Bible. Let the feminists argue their human rights on the humanist level against men who are humanists and for women to argue with their peers.

    All the best
    David
    Hi David,

    You have said it correctly that there are clear different roles and rights that God have segregated for males and females. He based them on what is deemed best and suitable based on their physical, emotional, chemical etc. makeups. That means the gender rights and roles are differentiated, well planned and defined. This is evident in the animal world in which they have differentiated and seemingly biased roles in the gender and this system has been working well for millions of years. If God thought it was good for men and women to have equal rights He would have done so long ago. Should we temper with the Creator's original well planned and differentiated roles and rights for gender even if it seems biased to one gender? Throughout the years some of those rights may have been tempered by men innocently or evil men for their own selfish agendas resulting in biased towards women. God should not be blamed if men tempered with His original plans to its negative effects. God created Eve with certain and differentiated qualities that Adam lacked based on His wisdom and they are supposed to help each other by making effective use of such differentiated qualities for better quality of living.

    Changing to equal rights for male and females based on human understanding of fairness (which sometimes and often are flawed and biased) is like playing with fire and may backfire with disastrous consequences. A good example is like trying to change the leader of the lion tribe from male to female and the consequences will be the extermination of that lion tribe if faced with competition from a alpha male lead lion tribe. Another example which I portray in this thread is to change to the usual roles and rights from males to female and as everybody can see that it may not be beneficial.

    Therefore, I believe that changing to equal rights for male and females is not possible and may be detrimental. Of course, we can change the rights of gender to be fairer but not possible to be equal because of our different makeup. As such, it is much better to fight for better protection for women which is the main cause of the inequalities than to fight for the impossible equal rights for gender. At the same time, we should focus on how men and women can work together based on our differences for a better world instead of fighting for the impossible equal rights.

    I have asked the question and it remains unanswered to this day, "What gain is it for God to be biased to a gender? What good can a parent gained for showing favoritism to the son and not the daughter?". God made man and woman in His own image and thus to show favoritism to one gender is a slap on His own face. If God loves males why would He killed mostly men as portray in the Bible? God grace is for all gender, with equal chance to achieve eternal life, so what gender bias are we talking about? If the Bible is written by bronze age men, why would he wrote things that implicate and shame the male gender?

    God Bless.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose


    I did not intend to make this a protracted discussion in this thread. I have sowed the seed for questions that need to be answered by Evolutionists and perhaps a new thread can be started to discuss that subject.

    In the meantime, what do you have listed as human rights? Maybe we should see the list and decide what is missing off that list or what should not be included.

    Is there no circumstance you can see that women's rights are different to men's rights?
    Hello David,

    As I have pointed out over and over again, my focus is on EQUAL HUMAN RIGHTS, not specific roles that women and men have like women being mothers and men being fathers. Human rights are the rights that each person has over their own bodies and the choices they make for their lives ... "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", which is missing from the pages of the Bible. Half the population of the world is composed of women who contribute equally to the flourishing of societies, yet men have seen fit to deny women equal standing, this is why it is so obvious that the Bible was written and conceived in the minds of men. Men created a god in their own image and likeness, with all their male biases as his attributes.


    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    As one example of a right women do not have in the Bible is for women to be a priest; at least not in temple service. I will stand corrected, if I am mistaken.

    If God has decreed it is the responsibility and role for man to be head of the woman and to serve the Lord in the formal temple ceremonies, then it is not denying women human rights, even if we allow for God being biased in setting man above the woman for the sake of hierarchy.
    I have no problem with exclusive men or women's organizations that are private, but in the Bible the decree of male ruler-ship in everything shows its extreme male-bias. The Bible goes far beyond just having specific roles for men and women, it is filled with human rights violations directed at women who are considered the property of men. Men DO NOT have the right to control women!



    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    This is really about human rights in general and nothing to do with the Bible. Let the feminists argue their human rights on the humanist level against men who are humanists and for women to argue with their peers.

    All the best
    David
    This is about human rights in general, but it has everything to do with the Bible. Throughout the Bible women's human rights are denied and violated and they are biased against solely based on gender, which is the whole point of my article Gender Bias in the Bible. Humans are biased by nature (men and women), which is why it is so obvious that the Bible is man-made.


    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post


    I have asked the question and it remains unanswered to this day, "What gain is it for God to be biased to a gender?
    What good can a parent gained for showing favoritism to the son and not the daughter?". God made man and woman in His own image and thus to show favoritism to one gender is a slap on His own face. If God loves males why would He killed mostly men as portray in the Bible? God grace is for all gender, with equal chance to achieve eternal life, so what gender bias are we talking about? If the Bible is written by bronze age men, why would he wrote things that implicate and shame the male gender?

    God Bless.
    Hello Cheow

    I have answered your question many times, you just don't like my answer ... so, here it goes again. There is no gain for a god to be gender biased, but there is gain for MEN to be gender biased, because they gain control over women. This is the main reason that it is so obvious that the Bible is MAN MADE. In practically every society that has ever existed, men have discriminated against women and denied them equal human rights, the Bible is no different in this regard and is a perfect reflection of how men who love power and control think.

    Men who love power and control, do not think it is a shame to deny others their human rights if they gain power in the process! It's all about male ruler-ship, why do you think Genesis starts off by giving men ruler-ship over women? Bias is a human quality.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose

    Your wish was at least half granted. God's people did not follow his instruction. As God had predicted, the people that were not slaughtered/eradicated completely became a snare to them and a thorn in their side.

    These people who God allowed to be slaughtered by his own people, were already reprobates. That means they had gone past the point of saving. They were cast off already and were dead to God. It is a hard message for humanists to accept.

    I am accused of speaking for God when I mention things being allowed by God. I am saying things as they appear to be. None of us can think as God thinks and see as far ahead into the future as God can. God knew that those reprobate people were not voluntarily going to change their ways. The children would be brought up to do the same as the parents. It is a never ending cycle of what was an abomination to God. Although it was not a permanent solution, like the cure of cancer does not prevent death from old age, the cure was severe and should have brought some longer rest. The people failed in their task and only half did the job. The cancer analogy is a good one for this situation. The removal of cancer has to be complete otherwise the cancer continues to grow back and take over. I can see how the complete elimination of an abominable nation was like removing a cancer completely. God wanted the best for his people, and all they had to do was follow his instruction and get rid of the people completely. Forget taking over another people's land, remember that all land is God's and the nations that were occupying certain lands had done so by grabbing that land for themselves and claiming it as theirs. Did they seek God's permission? No.

    The Children of Israel disobeyed God and God was proved correct; the people they did not destroy became a snare to them. The same would eventually have happened again from the nations outside the land, but would have taken longer. We see the problem that man is creating by creating their own gods. I know you think the god of the Bible is one of those gods, but from the perspective of the Creator God of the Bible, the Bible is revealing the message from that god. You can think it is a man-made work of fiction and that is where we disagree.

    Consider the problem of war. War is taking place all around the world and it is part of everyday news. It has become the norm to hear of wars taking place. How are you going to stop war? War is created by man. God cannot be blamed for the wars that are going on in the world today. You can blame God for not intervening and for allowing man to rule himself, but God is not to blame for the mess that man is making of things.

    I see God has predicted the future accurately. I see your ideals for the world, but you are powerless to make them happen. The only hope you could have in bringing about your ideals for the world is to call upon someone who has the power. There is not a human on this earth that has that power. You are stuck in a world full of evil that overrides good and there is nothing you can do to solve the problem.

    If you want your ideals to be practiced by everyone world-wide, that means you have to eliminate those who do not want to follow your ideals and would do things to sabotage the implementation of your ideals. At the very worst, when the fight is to the death, who do you want to win? What other course of action can you take? Unless you eliminate your opposition, your ideals cannot happen. Now you know why God will act in his time to bring about the ideals you want. If you want to live in the ideal world, then you know what you have to do. As it is, you can bash the god of the Bible all you like and it does nothing to solve the world's problems. You do not matter to God in terms of what his plan is, for God's plan will happen regardless of what you think. The world is doomed under man's rule and you delude yourself to think man knows best and will solve all the problems he is creating. The problem of war will never cease as long as man is proud and greedy etc.. Those are the causes of the problems, so how do you propose to solve it?

    I have given you a lot of challenging questions, I look forward to your answers.

    All the best
    David
    Hello David

    It's much harder for you to come up with reasons and solutions for all the atrocities in the Bible, because you have to try and understand why god would allow such immoral behavior. I on the other hand have no trouble understanding why the Bible is filled with human rights violations, because it is man-made. The Biblegod does not exist, he is a human construct. Humans do good things and humans do bad things, which is exactly what we have a record of in the Bible.

    Numerous studies have been done that show violence has been decreasing over time, even though there is still far too much violence, people are slowly figuring things out. Most of the violence that occurs in the world today is because of different religious groups fighting with each other. People have been waiting for thousands of years for the Biblegod to work our his plan and still nothing has happened, that should tell you something. I will put my hope in humanity, at least they are making progress.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

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