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  1. #1
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    Discussion series: Is it ok for Women to rape Men?

    Hi all,

    In this classroom discussion series, I would like to discuss in relation to Rose views on the male gender bias in the Bible using "what if" scenarios. Participants are reminded that questions may sound silly and sensitive but relevant to gaining insight into these issues. Viewers discretion is advised. Please also understand that there are always exceptions and alternatives to the issues and to be free from our own prejudice. You should give your response as Yes And Noeven if it sounds ridiculous so as to reduce personal bias and prejudice.

    Women raping men? Are you insane? No I am not, there are rare incidences whereby women did raped men. I am also talking about constitutional rape in which women have sex with underage boys. Don't be mistaken, i am against all kinds of rape regardless of men with women or vice versa. It also brought up the question of why do men raped while it is deemed insane for women to rape men?

    There are also incidences whereby men were tricked to be drunk and the woman have sex with the drunken man so as to forced him to marry her or forced him for extortion. This is obviously women raped men.

    http://www.vocativ.com/underworld/cr...girl-guy-rape/

    Is it ok for women to rape men? Discuss.

    No, because:
    1. It won't benefit women as they may get pregnant and venereal diseases if not protected sex.
    2. There is no need for women to rape men; men will be very willing as they have nothing to lose.
    3. It is a crime for women to have sex with underage boys.
    4. Such behavior will only increase promiscuity in society
    5. Woman should have consensual sex with the only man she loves
    6. Sex with underage boys is wrong as they are or maybe innocent and ignorant.
    7. If forced sex to a drunken man to ensure marriage, the marriage is unlikely to be happy and successful as there is no love of the man to the woman.

    Yes, because:
    1. It is consensual and out of mutual love between women and underage boys even though it is a crime.
    2. Out of lust or love for the man who refused sex.
    3. If the man is the only one in the whole country.

    Is there such things as consensual rape? Well, maybe prostitution etc. But consensual sex between adults cannot be considered as rape. What about unwilling men and women forced to have sex at gunpoint? I believe such incidence did happened before. Forced sex between husband and wife is not considered as rape.

    Rose book "Gender Bias in the Bible" said that God forced the israelites to rape the captured women. This has been debated before in other threads and it was found that the Israelites married the women they captured and thus cannot be considered as rape, There were also no sign or mention of rejections or objections from the captured women, as such they were considered as willing partners to marry the Israelites.

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 04-30-2014 at 11:48 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Hi all,

    Is there such things as consensual rape? Well, maybe prostitution etc. But consensual sex between adults cannot be considered as rape. What about unwilling men and women forced to have sex at gunpoint? I believe such incidence did happened before. Forced sex between husband and wife is not considered as rape.
    First and foremost the word rape must be defined.

    Rape:

    1. The unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.


    2. Any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

    Rape is not gender specific, both males and females can be raped. There is no such thing as consensual rape, because the act of rape is defined by force, and only adults in their right minds are able to give consent ... consequently if an adult of their own free will gives consent (like prostitution) it's not considered rape.

    Yes it is! Forced sex between a husband and wife is rape! Anytime sex is FORCED upon another person it is considered rape, it doesn't matter if you are married or not.

    Forced sex = Rape

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Rose book "Gender Bias in the Bible" said that God forced the israelites to rape the captured women. This has been debated before in other threads and it was found that the Israelites married the women they captured and thus cannot be considered as rape, There were also no sign or mention of rejections or objections from the captured women, as such they were considered as willing partners to marry the Israelites.

    God Bless.

    I did not say god "forced" the soldiers to rape the captured women, rather he allowed them to choose the captured women they desired (lusted after) to take as wives. If a woman is taken against her will and married, the sex act forced upon her is still rape. The fact that the women were "captured" as prisoners means that they were taken against their will ... there is no need to capture a willing bride.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    First and foremost the word rape must be defined.

    Rape:

    1. The unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.


    2. Any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

    Rape is not gender specific, both males and females can be raped. There is no such thing as consensual rape, because the act of rape is defined by force, and only adults in their right minds are able to give consent ... consequently if an adult of their own free will gives consent (like prostitution) it's not considered rape.

    Yes it is! Forced sex between a husband and wife is rape! Anytime sex is FORCED upon another person it is considered rape, it doesn't matter if you are married or not.

    Forced sex = Rape
    Secular laws in most countries do not classify forced sex between husband and wife as rape!.

    I do classify prostitution as indirect rape because most prostitutes are forced to provide this service in order to get money to pay debts, feed their children, survive from poverty etc. Most prostitute do not sell sex because they enjoy doing but because they are forced to do so directly or indirectly.


    I did not say god "forced" the soldiers to rape the captured women, rather he allowed them to choose the captured women they desired (lusted after) to take as wives. If a woman is taken against her will and married, the sex act forced upon her is still rape. The fact that the women were "captured" as prisoners means that they were taken against their will ... there is no need to capture a willing bride.
    You are putting words not in the Bible. There are evidence in the Bible that they were married and even RAM agreed with me. If you were one of the women forced to marry, what would you have done? Likely, you will fight back or even kill yourself but those "captured" women looks quite compliant, why? Why not protests, commit suicide, self destruct their virginity, run away, kill the Israelites, commit adultery etc.? Don't give the crap that they could not do anything. Or did they found the Israelites were much better than their former men who indulged in perverse sexual practices beyond imagination homosexuality, bestiality, pedophilia, temple prostitution, child sacrifices in the worship of Molech. Or did they realized that God was much better than Molech and that God promised them and their generations protection and blessings if they married the Israelites? All these questions have to be answered before you make any conclusion.
    God would not want to leave these innocent women defenseless which was why He allowed the Israelites to marry them. God also did not want the Israelites to die childless. Many of them would be divorced after that as they were expected to be killed in battles or settled far away and not expected to see their wives again. In this way, their ex- wives were free to remarry again. Can you define the word "Lust". If a single man saw a beautiful girl and want to marry her, is that considered as lust? or are you saying that if the single man saw a not so pretty girl and yet want to marry her, that is not considered as lust?

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 05-02-2014 at 08:05 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Secular laws in most countries do not classify forced sex between husband and wife as rape!.
    Just because the laws written by men in many countries does not classify forced sex in a marriage as rape, does not mean it is not rape. Rape is forcing sex upon another person without their consent and against their will. Rape violates a persons human rights and it is IMMORAL AND WRONG!

    There are still a few countries where the men in power force girls who have been raped to marry their rapist! And many of the girls do commit suicide!

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I do classify prostitution as indirect rape because most prostitutes are forced to provide this service in order to get money to pay debts, feed their children, survive from poverty etc. Most prostitute do not sell sex because they enjoy doing but because they are forced to do so directly or indirectly.
    I was careful to say that the only kind of prostitution that would not be considered rape, is if the adult woman of her own free will, without coercion and with total consent sold herself for sex.



    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    You are putting words not in the Bible. There are evidence in the Bible that they were married and even RAM agreed with me. If you were one of the women forced to marry, what would you have done? Likely, you will fight back or even kill yourself but those "captured" women looks quite compliant, why? Why not protests, commit suicide, self destruct their virginity, run away, kill the Israelites, commit adultery etc.? Don't give the crap that they could not do anything. Or did they found the Israelites were much better than their former men who indulged in perverse sexual practices beyond imagination homosexuality, bestiality, pedophilia, temple prostitution, child sacrifices in the worship of Molech. Or did they realized that God was much better than Molech and that God promised them and their generations protection and blessings if they married the Israelites? All these questions have to be answered before you make any conclusion.
    God would not want to leave these innocent women defenseless which was why He allowed the Israelites to marry them. God also did not want the Israelites to die childless. Many of them would be divorced after that as they were expected to be killed in battles or settled far away and not expected to see their wives again. In this way, their ex- wives were free to remarry again. Can you define the word "Lust". If a single man saw a beautiful girl and want to marry her, is that considered as lust? or are you saying that if the single man saw a not so pretty girl and yet want to marry her, that is not considered as lust?

    God Bless.
    Whether or not the soldiers married the captive women has nothing to do with whether or not there was force involved. Nowhere does it say that the captive women had any say whatsoever in whether or not they wanted to be married. Notice, first the women are taken captive, then the men desired certain women because they were beautiful and they wanted them for wives, so they are allowed to take the captive women home. Nowhere in the passage is there any mention made of what the woman desires ... she is at the total mercy of the man. The man doesn't care about the feelings of the woman, only his own desires and lust ... otherwise he would not have killed her family and taken her captive.
    Deut.21:10-13 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.


    No matter how many pathetic excuses and justifications you try to make up it was still rape and it was WRONG! Men who have morals DO NOT kill a woman's family, take her captive and marry her against her will ... and anyone who tries to justify such actions has some serious problems with their own moral values!
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Just because the laws written by men in many countries does not classify forced sex in a marriage as rape, does not mean it is not rape. Rape is forcing sex upon another person without their consent and against their will. Rape violates a persons human rights and it is IMMORAL AND WRONG!
    Many secular laws said that husband and wife have the right to have sex. Refusing or reluctant to have sex is also considered as violating the spouse human right to have sex. This is also wrong and goes against secular law. They are exercising their basic human rights to have sex. Reluctant sex does not equate to rape.

    There are still a few countries where the men in power force girls who have been raped to marry their rapist! And many of the girls do commit suicide!
    That I agree fits the definition of rape. It saddens me that those girls who were raped chose to take their own lives than to accuse their rapists or the men in power.

    Whether or not the soldiers married the captive women has nothing to do with whether or not there was force involved. Nowhere does it say that the captive women had any say whatsoever in whether or not they wanted to be married. Notice, first the women are taken captive, then the men desired certain women because they were beautiful and they wanted them for wives, so they are allowed to take the captive women home. Nowhere in the passage is there any mention made of what the woman desires ... she is at the total mercy of the man. The man doesn't care about the feelings of the woman, only his own desires and lust ... otherwise he would not have killed her family and taken her captive.
    Deut.21:10-13 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
    Because they were captives, they do not have the right to choose who to marry or not to marry. This is a normal practice throughout the world as captives. But the way they were treated is consider as humane if not for the Israelites but other tribes, they would all have been raped and sold or killed.

    Don't presumed that the girl brought to the man's house means sex. It simply said that if the man saw a beautiful girl and wanted to marry her then the girl will be in the man's house to go through the purification ritual to be assimilated into the Jewish tribe (because it was not proper for a Jew to marry a non-Jew) and to be betrothed. After that, she will not become a captive anymore by removing her raiment and she will grieve for her dead parents for one month, only then can they have sex and become husband and wife. During the one month's time when the girl is in the man's house, she will be looked after by her would be husband and it is also the time where they will develop a mutual relationship. In ancient Jewish time during wartime, the couple do not have much time for dating as the man has to go to war soon. It is a common practice then during war time for the couple to hastily marry, have sex and then divorced so that the woman can remarry again and not be bound to become a widow or remained as a married woman (in which she cannot be remarried) if her husband were to be killed, missing during battles or be settled in faraway places. Some of the men will stayed back to look after the women but most of the men were to be sent to war and not expected to see his ex-wife or child.

    No matter how many pathetic excuses and justifications you try to make up it was still rape and it was WRONG! Men who have morals DO NOT kill a woman's family, take her captive and marry her against her will ... and anyone who tries to justify such actions has some serious problems with their own moral values!
    Their parents were killed because of their sin and would have subjected their daughters to sin and death if kept alive. Neither is it RIGHT to leave the women free to fend to survive by themselves and to be raped, sold or killed by bandits or other evil tribes. Where is your compassion?

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 05-03-2014 at 08:57 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Many secular laws said that husband and wife have the right to have sex. Refusing or reluctant to have sex is also considered as violating the spouse human right to have sex. This is also wrong and goes against secular law. They are exercising their basic human rights to have sex. Reluctant sex does not equate to rape.
    It is NEVER a basic human right to force sex upon someone who doesn't want it! If a couple is married and one partner refuses to have sex there is always the option of divorce ... it is NEVER an option to force sex upon your partner, that is rape.

    Forced sex = Rape

    Rape is not a human right!


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    That I agree fits the definition of rape. It saddens me that those girls who were raped chose to take their own lives than to accuse their rapists or the men in power.
    The girls did not have the option to accuse their rapists, they were forced to marry them!




    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Because they were captives, they do not have the right to choose who to marry or not to marry. This is a normal practice throughout the world as captives. But the way they were treated is consider as humane if not for the Israelites but other tribes, they would all have been raped and sold or killed.
    Forced sex = Rape

    It doesn't matter if the women were captives, forced sex is still rape! It's one thing to take captives during war time, and quite another to allow the women to be raped!

    The Biblegod allows and approves of Rape!



    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Don't presumed that the girl brought to the man's house means sex. It simply said that if the man saw a beautiful girl and wanted to marry her then the girl will be in the man's house to go through the purification ritual to be assimilated into the Jewish tribe (because it was not proper for a Jew to marry a non-Jew) and to be betrothed. After that, she will not become a captive anymore by removing her raiment and she will grieve for her dead parents for one month, only then can they have sex and become husband and wife. During the one month's time when the girl is in the man's house, she will be looked after by her would be husband and it is also the time where they will develop a mutual relationship. In ancient Jewish time during wartime, the couple do not have much time for dating as the man has to go to war soon. It is a common practice then during war time for the couple to hastily marry, have sex and then divorced so that the woman can remarry again and not be bound to become a widow or remained as a married woman (in which she cannot be remarried) if her husband were to be killed, missing during battles or be settled in faraway places. Some of the men will stayed back to look after the women but most of the men were to be sent to war and not expected to see his ex-wife or child.


    Their parents were killed because of their sin and would have subjected their daughters to sin and death if kept alive. Neither is it RIGHT to leave the women free to fend to survive by themselves and to be raped, sold or killed by bandits or other evil tribes. Where is your compassion?

    God Bless.
    Why was it that sometimes the Biblegod told the Hebrew soldiers to kill every last man, woman, child and baby and show them NO MERCY, whereas other times the Hebrew soldiers were allowed to keep just the virgin girls (not the virgin boys)???? Sometimes the Hebrews were told they COULD NOT marry foreigners, other times it was okay???? Sounds like the mixed up thinking of primitive men to me.

    Forced sex = Rape

    The Biblegod allows and approves of Rape!
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

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