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Thread: Daniel 9:23-27

  1. #31
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    dp:

    … continued from posts,

    #5 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7033#post67033

    #25 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7064#post67064

    #26 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7067#post67067

    #27 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7069#post67069

    #28 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7070#post67070

    sylvius,

    The 7 weeks, or 49 years of Daniel’s prophecy in 9:25, extend from the decree of Cyrus until the 34th year of Darius-Artaxerxes, which takes us down to the end of the book of Nehemiah. (7 years for Cyrus, 8 for Cambyses and pseudo-Smerdis, 34 for Darius) . During those 49 years, the city was indeed rebuilt, and in times of distress.

    If the 49 years (7 weeks) prove to be literal years, as we have seen they likely are, then the remaining 63 weeks would also be literal years. In that case, the entire BC system of dating is off, and a great deal of revisionist labour lies before us.


    An alternate revisionist approach, presented as food for thought (though not necessarily lechem from heaven ).

    btw: I am not a partial preterist, but do glean many things from SOME of their teaching.

    J Jordan, a partial preterist, presents the following in his Biblical Chronology articles, which, even if you reject, I am sure you will find thought provoking:

    Main assumption: If we assume that the 70 7’s of Daniel 9:24-27 are in fact weeks of years, and that they begin with the decree of Cyrus, then we are forced to move the decree of Cyrus from 536 BC to around 457 BC, with room for variation depending on our precise interpretation of the prophecy. This shift completely wrecks the currently-accepted system of BC dating, which is regarded as inviolable in scholarly circles (dp: and possibly for good reasons?).


    The Artaxerxes View (see Chuck Missler/Robert Anderson posts #2, #5)

    Some have supposed that there is another decree in the 20th year of Artaxerxes I (Artaxerxes Longimanus) and place the starting point for the 490 year prophecy around 444 BC (Anderson: 445 BC). This would enable a literal interpretation without changing existing BC dates. The problem is that there is no foundation for the notion of a decree in
    the reign of Artaxerxes. Nehemiah 2:8,9 records Artaxerxes’ letters granting Nehemiah support in his endeavour, but this is not really a decree. By way of contrast, Cyrus’ decree is highlighted consistently in the text as the great turning point in the affairs of the Jews (Ezra 1:24; 2 Chron 36:21-23; Jer 29:10; Isa 44:28; 45:13).

    But, as was shown in the earlier posts (top), there is a good possibility that the Artaxerxes of Nehemiah is in fact Darius, not the ruler called Artaxerxes I in literature, in which case the letters mentioned in Nehemiah 2:8,9 were written about 500 BC (existing BC dates).

    The Symbolic View (shades of sylvius’ view: see post #7)

    The 70 7’s are not years, but simply a prophetic figure, and thus make no prediction of events. In context, however, Daniel has been praying about the literal 70 years of captivity (Daniel 9:2), so it is most likely that the 70 7’s are years. Still, perhaps they are some kind of “prophetic years”, and are not to be taken so chronologically literal any more than Ezekiel’s Temple, which represented the estate of the Jews after the exile, was to be taken literally.

    The Revisionist View (see posts #25, #26, #27, #28)

    One of the problems with any non-literal or non-consecutive approach to this prophecy is that the NT seems to be against it. And when Jesus was born, people were actually expecting a Messiah, as people knowledgeable of the OT were looking for it, at least suggesting that they were aware of the prophecy of Daniel, as they added up the numbers of his prediction of the coming Messiah. At this point in Jordan’s presentation, he is not at all decided one way or another on this matter. But he does think, however, that the possibility of historical revision should be entertained as an option.

    One of the main areas suspect in the BC chronology is in the latter years of the Persian kings, before the conquest of Alexander the Great (fixed at 331 BC). If the 70 7’s Daniel are literal years initialized from the decree of Cyrus, about 80 years need to be removed. We need to question 3 things:
    1. The reliability of the Greeks as historians of Persian affairs;
    2.The reliability of Ptolemy’s King list, and;
    3. The reliability of eclipse data.

    First
    , the history of this period, which is known by us almost completely by the Greeks, scholars of the Persian history admit that little is known about the later period of the Persian Empire, except for a few scattered events discussed by Greek writers.

    Second, the chronology for this period was originally based almost solely on the King list of Ptolemy (150 AD), a list appended to his Almagest, a book on astronomy. He simply lists the kings of Assyria, Persia, Macedonia, and Rome, with years for each one.

    The Protestant Reformers, took biblical chronologies very seriously, and they were very suspicious of the Ptolemaic dates. Calvin says, “Ecolampadius rightly and prudently admonishes us, that we ought to make the computation from the beginning of the world. For until the ruin of the Temple and the destruction of the city, we can gather with certainty the number of years that have elapsed from the creation of the world; here there is no room for error. The series is plain enough in the Scriptures.”

    Calvin then discusses the problem of accounting for these years, noting controversies of his own day: “After Cyrus had transferred to the Persians the power of the East … some enumerate about 200 years, others 125 years, and some between the two, 140 years.”

    Calvin continues: “We must how our ignorance springs chiefly from the Persian custom: whoever undertook a warlike expedition appointed his son his viceroy. Thus, Cambyses reigned, according to some, 20 years, and to others, only 7; because the crown was placed on his head during his father’s lifetime … [Herodotus asserts] … when fathers saw the potential danger of their sons destroying each other, they usually created one of them a king; and if they wished to prefer the younger brother to the elder, they called him king, with the concurrence of their council. Hence, the years of their reigns became intermingled, without any fixed method of reckoning them.”

    Jordan summarises the 2nd point: In other words, Ptolemy might have the years right as regards each individual king, but we can not simply add them up because they may overlap. Since the Bible indicates a continuity of reign in the years of Darius, and possibly Xerxes and Artaxerxes I as well, the overlapping reigns must be toward the end of the Persian period.

    Third, Jordan says, we have to call into question the reliability of eclipse data. In brief, the earth undergoes slight shifts in motion called “accelerations”, relative to earth, moon, and sun. This is caused by tidal forces and magnetic fluxes under the earth, etc. He refers to the various studies by astronomer, Robert R Newton of Johns Hopkins University. He provided data on the solar system, based on these studies, to NASA. Therefore, eclipse data may turn out to be of little or no use in the study of ancient history.

    … to be continued: conclusion …

    dp
    Last edited by dpenn; 10-22-2014 at 02:53 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    dp:



    [COLOR="#FF0000"][B]The 7 weeks, or 49 years of Daniel’s prophecy in 9:25, extend from the decree of Cyrus until the 34th year of Darius-Artaxerxes,
    Daniel 9:25,
    And you shall know and understand that from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king [shall be] seven weeks, and [in] sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times.

    Rashi:
    And you shall know and understand from the emergence of the word: From the emergence of this word, which emerged at the beginning of your supplications to tell you, you shall know to understand [how] to restore and build Jerusalem.

    until the anointed king: Time will be given from the day of the destruction until the coming of Cyrus, king of Persia, about whom the Holy One, blessed be He, said that he would return and build His city, and He called him His anointed and His king, as it says (Isa. 45:1): “So said the Lord to His anointed one, to Cyrus etc.” (verse 13): “He shall build My city and free My exiles, etc.”

    seven weeks: Seven complete shemittah cycles they will be in exile before Cyrus comes, and there were yet three more years, but since they did not constitute a complete shemittah cycle, they were not counted. In the one year of Darius, in which Daniel was standing when this vision was said to him, seventy years from the conquest of Jehoiakim terminated. Deduct eighteen years from them, in which the conquest of Jehoiakim preceded the destruction of Jerusalem, leaving fifty-two years. This is what our Rabbis learned (Yoma 54a): “For fifty-two years no one passed through Judea.” They are the fifty-two years from the day of the destruction until they returned in the days of Cyrus. Hence, we have seven shemittah cycles and three years.




  3. #33
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    dp:

    … continued from posts,

    #5 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7033#post67033

    #25 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7064#post67064

    #26 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7067#post67067

    #27 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7069#post67069

    #28 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7070#post67070

    #31 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7074#post67074

    sylvius,

    The 7 weeks, or 49 years of Daniel’s prophecy in 9:25, extend from the decree of Cyrus until the 34th year of Darius-Artaxerxes, which takes us down to the end of the book of Nehemiah. (7 years for Cyrus, 8 for Cambyses and pseudo-Smerdis, 34 for Darius) . During those 49 years, the city was indeed rebuilt, and in times of distress.

    If the 49 years (7 weeks) prove to be literal years, as we have seen they likely are, then the remaining 63 weeks would also be literal years. In that case, the entire BC system of dating is off, and a great deal of revisionist labour lies before us.


    An alternate revisionist approach, presented as food for thought (though not necessarily lechem from heaven ).

    btw: I am not a partial preterist, but do glean many things from SOME of their teaching.

    J Jordan, a partial preterist, presents the following in his Biblical Chronology articles, which, even if you reject, I am sure you will find thought provoking:

    Main assumption: If we assume that the 70 7’s of Daniel 9:24-27 are in fact weeks of years, and that they begin with the decree of Cyrus, then we are forced to move the decree of Cyrus from 536 BC to around 457 BC, with room for variation depending on our precise interpretation of the prophecy. This shift completely wrecks the currently-accepted system of BC dating, which is regarded as inviolable in scholarly circles (dp: and possibly for good reasons?).


    The Revisionist View (see posts #25, #26, #27, #28, #31

    #25 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7064#post67064

    #26 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7067#post67067

    #27 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7069#post67069

    #28 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7070#post67070

    #31 - http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...7074#post67074
    )


    Daniel 11:2-3, says that three more kings will arise in Persia after Cyrus. They were Cambyses, Darius the Great, and Xerxes. Then would come a fourth, who would become very rich and would stir up the realm of Greece. This was Artaxerxes Longimanus. Usually, though, this is referred to as Xerxes, as the pseudo-Smerdis is considered the second, as Xerxes did accumulate great wealth and attacked Greece.

    Jordan suggests, if I am right … we can now look at the end of the Artaxerxes’ reign, 424 BC, subtract 80 years, and get 344 BC. And Alexander, the “mighty king” of Daniel 11:3 conquered Persia 13 years later in 331 BC. By 344 BC, Philip of Macedon had already become dominant in Greece; he ascended the throne in 359 and conquered Greece by 338. Alexander came to the throne in 336 BC. Thus, if this date revision were accurate, Greece was ascending in power when Longimanus’ reign came to an end.

    The wars between Greece and Persia between the reigns of Darius the Great and Xerxes, are, however, also attested in Greek history and chronology. This data makes it doubtful if 80 years can be filtered out of that history. Still, more recent scholars have put into question all of Greek history before Alexander, including the reliability of Olympiad dating (see Peter James, Centuries of Darkness).

    Jordan’s Conclusion is agnostic. Certainly, everything in Daniel 9, including the grammar, points to 490 consecutive years between Cyrus and Christ. The matter is not, however, so absolutely certain as to exclude any possibility of the 70 weeks being a symbolic construct. More work is required to work out an alternative.

    Jordan’s reference chart:

    .....………………………Current……..... Revisionist…………….Revisionist
    Event……………………BC……..….......B C…………………....….AM
    ================================================== ==
    Cyrus’ decree……….....538 BC.…..457 BC..……………….3476
    Cambyses…………….....529………....450… …………………...3483
    Darius…………………......521………....4 42……………………...3491
    Xerxes…………………......485………....4 06……………………...3526
    ..Artaxerxes I……….....464………....overlapping
    ..Darius II…………….....423……….....reigns, so
    ..Artaxerxes II……......404……….....detailed
    ..Artaxerxes III….......358……….....chronology
    ..Arogus………………......337……….....n ot possible
    ..Darius II……………......335
    Alexander conquers……331…………………………… …….......3601
    Zero AD
    Crucifixion of Christ, middle of 70th week (30 AD)…..3962
    Abomination of Temple: Christians depart finally……..4000
    Destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD)……………………………...4002

    dp: I remain confident that a reasonable solution exists such that there are 490 literal years from Cyrus’ decree to Christ, with a trailing 3.5 years for the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, or a final Great Tribulation (depending on whether or not partial preterism is true). And if it is only meant to be general, with symbolic overtones, it is obvious that early saints were anticipating the Messiah at the point of Jesus' incarnation into time and history.

    And if ever it could be shown that the Darius-Artaxerxes-Ahaseurus of Jordan, really are three individual Persian kings, then possibly a Robert Anderson model could be the case, stripping out Missler's Zionistic Dispensational elements (that is, the first 3 1/2 years of week 70 refer to Christ and His atoning sacrifice). If this is correct, the BC dates would be in sync with Daniel 9:24-27.

    One thing I know, from other of his writings, is that I distrust Jordan in much of his overall interpretations. So he might have led us down the path of error, but then again, he did say after all that he remains an agnostic in his view of revising the BC dates. The thing that is so gripping is his case for Jerusalem being rebuilt within 49 years of Cyrus' decree (the first 7 weeks of the 70 weeks)

    ... but for now ... I am done!
    Last edited by dpenn; 10-25-2014 at 01:01 AM.

  4. #34
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    dp:

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Daniel 9:25,
    And you shall know and understand that from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king [shall be] seven weeks, and [in] sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times.

    Rashi:

    And you shall know and understand from the emergence of the word: From the emergence of this word, which emerged at the beginning of your supplications to tell you, you shall know to understand [how] to restore and build Jerusalem.

    until the anointed king: Time will be given from the day of the destruction until the coming of Cyrus, king of Persia, about whom the Holy One, blessed be He, said that he would return and build His city, and He called him His anointed and His king, as it says (Isa. 45:1): “So said the Lord to His anointed one, to Cyrus etc.” (verse 13): “He shall build My city and free My exiles, etc.”

    seven weeks: Seven complete shemittah cycles they will be in exile before Cyrus comes, and there were yet three more years, but since they did not constitute a complete shemittah cycle, they were not counted. In the one year of Darius, in which Daniel was standing when this vision was said to him, seventy years from the conquest of Jehoiakim terminated. Deduct eighteen years from them, in which the conquest of Jehoiakim preceded the destruction of Jerusalem, leaving fifty-two years. This is what our Rabbis learned (Yoma 54a): “For fifty-two years no one passed through Judea.” They are the fifty-two years from the day of the destruction until they returned in the days of Cyrus. Hence, we have seven shemittah cycles and three years.
    sylvius, I feel a bit bad that we have hi-jacked this Jacob to Joseph thread, to speak of Daniel's 70 weeks, but hindsight is 20-20, and I suspect neither one of us foresaw this slight tangent developing to this extent. And I am still fairly new at this and am not sure how to transfer these posts to a new thread, where they probably belong. So continuing on...

    Martin Anstey, in his "The Romance of Bible Chronology", 1913, pp. 23-24, says:

    The Sedar Olam Rabbah, i.e., "The Large Chronicle of the World", commonly called the "Larger Chronicon", is a Jewish Talmudic tract, containing the Jewish Chronology of the world as reckoned by the Jews. It treats of Scripture times, and is continued down to the reign of Hadrian (A.D. 76-138). The author is said to have been Rabbi Jose ben Chaliptha, who flourished a little after the beginning of the 2nd century after Christ, and was Master to Rabbi Judah Hakkodesh, who composed the Mishna. Others say it dates from A.D. 832, and it was certainly written after the Babylonian Talmud, as it contains many fables taken from thence.

    The Sedar Olam Zeutah, i.e., "Small Chronicle of the World", commonly called the "Lesser Chronicle", is said to be written A.D. 1123.It is a short chronicle of the events of history from the beginning of the world to the year A.D. 522.

    Both contain the Jewish tradition respecting the duration of the Persian Empire. This tradition is that in the last year of Darius Hystaspes, the prophets, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi died, that thereon the spirit of prophecy ceased from among the children of Israel, and that this was the obsignation or sealing up of vision and prophecy spoken of by the prophet Daniel (9:24). The same tradition tells us that the Kingdom of the Persians ceased also the same year, for they will have it that this was the Darius whom Alexander the Great conquered, and that the whole continuance of the Persian Empire was only 52 years, which they reckon thus:

    Darius the Mede reigned............1 year
    Cyrus the Mede reigned.............3 years
    Cambyses reigned...................16 years (whom they identify as Ahasueros who married Esther)
    Darius reigned........................32 years (whom they have to be the son of Esther)
    Total.......................................52 years

    This last Darius, they say, was the Artaxerxes who sent Ezra and Nehemiah to Jerusalem to restore the state of the Jews, for they tell us that Artaxerxes among the Persians was the common name for the Kings, as that of Pharoah was among the Egyptians.
    So if this historical Jewish record that Anstey refers to here is true (I have not verified this yet), and his whole book is a chronological masterpiece of historical records from Adam to Jesus, then I ask, why did Rashi find it necessary to completely overturn his own Talmudic sources?

    And setting that aside, Sylvius, neither you nor Rashi have come close to giving a sound answer for the overall text of Daniel 9:24-27, especially v 24,

    "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

    ... not to mention the remainder of this prophecy that clearly speaks of the coming of the Messiah, the causing of the sacrificial system to cease, culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem, all within this 70 weeks.

    dp
    Last edited by dpenn; 10-03-2014 at 06:07 PM.

  5. #35
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    dp:

    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post

    ... [Missler/Anderson might not be so accurate] ...

    Christ's ministry began in fall 28 AD.
    - Tiberias appointed: 14 AD
    - Augustus died August 19, 14 AD
    - Jesus began His public ministry within the 15th year of Tiberias (Luke 3:1)
    4th Passover: April 6, 32 AD (Sir Robert Anderson, 1894)
    (other chronologies presume a Friday crucifixion, but Passover this year was not on a Friday, but Wednesday)

    69 * 7 * 360 = 173,880 days

    And the LXX was translated into Greek more than 2 centuries before Christ, as per Dead Sea Scrolls.

    445 BC - 32 AD = 173,740
    Mar 14 - Apr 6 = ..........24
    Leap Years..................116
    -------------------------------
    ............................173,880 days

    If this is true, Gabriel's margin of error was 0 days.
    Martin Anstey's "The Romance of Bible Chronology", on p. 33, says:

    [Earlier, Anstey: A.U.C. = the years from the founding of the city of Rome, and the Julian era began Jan 1, 45 B.C.]

    Dionysius reckoned the year of our Lord's birth to be the year A.U.C. 753, ... 45 of the Julian era. Dionysius obtained this date from Luke's statements that "John the Baptist began his ministry in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberias," and that "Jesus was beginning to be about 30 years of age" (Lk 3:1,23). Tiberias succeeded Augustus, August 19, A.U.C. 767. Therefore his 15th year was A.U.C. 782. Subtract the assumed year of the Nativity, 753, and the remainder is 29, or 30 current.

    But, according to Matthew, Christ was born after the death of Herod, that is, ... before 749. Hence, the year of the Incarnation, AD 1, was fixed 4 years too late, and to remedy this we have to express the true year of our Lord's birth by saying that He was born 4 BC. It was subsequently discovered that the source of the error lay, not with the Evangelists, Matthew or Luke, but in the fact that Tiberias began to reign as colleague or partner with Augustus some years before Augustus died, and that the length of his reign after Augustus' death was not 26 years, but 22. In this way the difficulties were cleared up. The era of the Incarnation was allowed to remain and the birth of Christ was set down as having occurred in the year 4 BC.
    ... and so the plot thickens ... will it be Roshi, Missler, Anderson, or Jordan? Will we ever be able to trust the most faithful Prophet Daniel again? As for me, my lot is cast for Daniel, and his 70 7's of years!

    dp
    Last edited by dpenn; 10-04-2014 at 09:49 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    dp:



    Martin Anstey's "The Romance of Bible Chronology", on p. 33, says:



    ... and so the plot thickens ... will it be Roshi, Missler, Anderson, or Jordan? Will we ever be able to trust the most faithful Prophet Daniel again? As for me, my lot is cast for Daniel, and his 70 7's of years!

    dp

    One very strange thing is Jewish versus Christian time-reckoning.

    According to Christian time the Temple was destroyed in 586 BC.

    But in Jewish time-reckoning it was in the year 3338 after the creation of man.

    586 BC coinciding the Jewish year 3173.

    So there is "time-gap" of 165 years.

    It seeming to be Jewish invention.

    Rashi:
    http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...showrashi=true
    The number of seven weeks is four hundred and ninety years. The Babylonian exile was seventy [years] and the Second Temple stood four hundred and twenty [years]
    165 being gematria of "Sod Daniel" = Daniel's secret. Meaning: you cannot compare biblical time and historical time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    that's not a logical conclusion, and also not the right conclusion. The forgiveness of sin was already there before man sinned, it being the secret (mystery) of creation.

    Not: "who takes away", but "who carries",

    cf. Mark 8:34, And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.


    Same verb is used, "airo"; no one would translate here: "take away his cross"


    John has here for lamb Greek "amnos", which translates Hebrew "keves"; which again might be a wordplay with "kevesh"(footstool)/"kavash" = to subdue, conquer, rape, referring to the "v'chivshuha" (and subdue her) of Genesis 1:28.
    cf. Leviticus 16:22,
    The he goat shall carry upon itself all their sins

    http://www.aish.com/tp/i/m/48971056.html



    The goat will bear upon itself all their iniquities ... (Leviticus 16:22)

    One of the most perplexing topics that we encounter in the Torah concerns the "scapegoat" – the goat that was offered on Yom Kippur carrying on its back all the sins of the Jewish people.

    Maimonides tells us that the "scapegoat":

    ...brings atonement on all the sins in the Torah, whether they be light or grave, whether the transgression was committed unintentionally or with deliberation, whether the sin is known to the perpetrator or whether it is not... (Laws of Teshuva 1:2)

    And the Talmud adds:

    This goat (sair) refers to Esau, as it is written: but my brother Esau is a hairy (soir) man. (Genesis 27:11) [The Hebrew words sair, "goat," and soir, "hairy" are spelled identically.]
    Esau is the rapist, conquerer, subduer, "kabbash"

  8. #38
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    dp:

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    One very strange thing is Jewish versus Christian time-reckoning.

    According to Christian time the Temple was destroyed in 586 BC.

    But in Jewish time-reckoning it was in the year 3338 after the creation of man.

    586 BC coinciding the Jewish year 3173.

    So there is "time-gap" of 165 years.

    It seeming to be Jewish invention.

    Rashi:
    http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...showrashi=true


    165 being gematria of "Sod Daniel" = Daniel's secret. Meaning: you cannot compare biblical time and historical time.
    sylvius,

    What do you do with other scholarly Christians that think the chronology of the Persian kings is out by roughly 80 years? Suddenly your gematria Daniel's secret 165 vanishes into thin air, as the destruction of Jerusalem is seen as closer to 506 BC.

    dp
    Last edited by dpenn; 10-04-2014 at 10:01 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpenn View Post
    dp:



    sylvius,

    What do you do with other scholarly Christians that think the chronology of the Persian kings is out by roughly 80 years? Suddenly your gematria Daniel's secret 165 vanishes into thin air, as the destruction of Jerusalem is seen as closer to 506 BC.

    dp

    "sod Daniel" says: it are not historical 490 years.

    Like all of bible-history is not historical in worldly sense.

    (Like man created 5775 years ago --only in biblical sense, not historical)

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    dp:

    … see posts #92, #112, #113, #114, #115, #118 …sylvius,

    Below is a chronological chart I originally created years ago, but which I have modified to accommodate Jordan's revisionist approach to Daniel's 70 7's of years.

    .................................................. .................................................. ..AM.................BC
    .....0 Adam...........(930)...........(Creation of Man)................................0............. .3930
    ..130 Seth.............(912)............................ .....................................130.......... ....3800
    ..105 Enos............(905)............................. ....................................235........... ....3695
    ....90 Cainan...... ...(910).......................................... .......................325...............3605
    ....70 Mahaleel.......(895)..........10 Generations (Gen 5)...................395..............3535
    ....65 Jared............(962)............................ .....................................460.......... ....3470
    ..162 Enoch...........(365)............................. ....................................622........... ...3308
    ....65 Methuselah...(969)................................ .................................687.............. .3243
    ..187 Lamech........(777)............................... ...................................874............ ..3056
    ..182 Noah............(950; at 500 Shem Ham and Japheth)..............1056...............2874
    ..500 Shem...........(600).............................. ..................................1556............ ..2374

    ........Flood..........................(0 + 1556 + 100 = 1656)....................1656..............2274

    ..100 Arphaxad......(600; at Flood + 2 Shem is 100)......................1658..............2272
    ....35 Salah............(433)............................ ...................................1693........... ...2237
    ....30 Eber..............(464)........................... ....................................1723.......... ....2207
    ....34 Peleg............(239)............................ ....................................1757.......... ....2173

    ........Babel..................................In Peleg’s lifetime.................(1757-1996)...(2173-1934)


    ....30 Reu..............(239)................OT half way............................(1965.............1 965)
    ....32 Serug...........(230)..........10 Generations (Gen 11)................1819.............2111
    ....30 Nahor...........(148)............................. ...................................1849........... ..2081
    ....29 Terah............(205; Terah dies in Haran)...............................1878......... .....2052
    ..130 Abram*.........(175; Abram, Nahor, Haran: Terah....................2008.............1922
    ....................................possibly 130 when Abram was born)
    ....75 Abraham......(leaves Haran; Gen 11:31-32; 12:4).................2083.............1847
    ....25 Isaac...........(180)............................. ...................................2108........... ..1822
    ....60 Jacob...........(147)............................. ...................................2168........... ..1762
    ..130....................(Jacob goes to Egypt)........................................2298 .............1632
    .................................................. .................................................+ 215............. -215

    (Israel’s 430 yr sojourn in Egypt Ex 12:40,41;
    Gal 3:17*; Acts 7:6; Gen 15:13-14,16;......................................____.. ............ ____
    Acts 13:20; I Chron 6:1-3 may include 215 yrs...........................2513.............. 1417
    from birth of Isaac............................................. ........................+480............. -480
    sojourn may = Egypt + Canaan)........................................... ......____.............____

    Temple Begun 4th Yr of Solomon’s reign 1 Kg 6:1.......................2993................937
    Completed 11th Yr 1 Kg 6:38.............................................. ........3000................930

    Fall of Israel............................................ .....................................3288......... .......642
    Fall of Jerusalem......................................... ..................................3424............ ....506
    Decree of Cyrus............................................. ...............................3474............... ..456
    .................................................. .................................................+ 486...............-486
    70*7’s of Years till Messiah the Prince....................................AM 3960.............AD 30
    (Note: Jordan adds 3.5 yrs to 483............................................... ...+40...............+40
    ..........in Dan 9:24-27: for His crucifixion......................................4 000.................70
    ..........69 7’s = 483 + 3.5 = 486.5 yrs)

    Final Note: Jordan in his Biblical Chronology believes that there is an error in secular history introduced through Ptolemy’s list of the reigns of Persian Kings, which is corrected using Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy. Secondly he accepts the decree of Cyrus but the throne titles Xerxes, Artaxerxes and Ahaseurus refer to Darius, much like the title Pharoah in Egypt. Thus 483 yrs from Cyrus to Christ is probable.
    Last edited by dpenn; 10-04-2014 at 12:04 PM.

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