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Thread: Mesiras Nephesh

  1. #101
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    Hi David,

    Here is where you are being dishonest with all of us, about your 'understanding' of what and who Jesus was, thinking yours is based on the Old Testament scriptures (although you never make that claim. You only use the New Testament to mangle up the nature of Jesus, despite that He fulfilled the Old).

    I have been discussing the nature of Jesus and that has nothing to do with salvation.
    WRONG!


    The 'nature of Jesus' has EVERYTHING to do with whether salvation is even possible or not. If we believe in your 'Jesus', salvation is not possible.

    Because you deny who GOD says Jesus was, you are off track, and the 'salvation' you think you have, is a figment of your imagination.

    Further, you yourself DO NOT TESTIFY to having received the SALVATION which is described in the New Testament.

    Those are two TRUE WITNESSES against your doctrine.
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Ephesians 3

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Hi Toxon,

    David said,



    Don't be fooled. Either he didn't understand what you wrote, or, he did, and sometime after hours of writing - with you thinking he is on the same page as you - it will dawn on you that the whole foundation of what you thought you were talking about, together - is no foundation at all, because (you will realise that) actually, he disagrees with the original statement to which he wrote 'I agree'. In that case, his 'I agree', is not true.

    However.... and it is a large however .... there may come a time when David both understands more, and, actually does agree with your analysis.

    That will be a great day!!!

    Hi Charisma, I suppose I would cross that bridge if and when I get to it but it is not like I came here "trusting" anyone to be honest and up front about it. After all it is an internet forum board where anyone can play any role he or she so desires. However, I will say that what I like so far about this board, as opposed to most "Christian" forum boards, is that it is blatantly apparent that here "Christians" will say even more openly and truly what is in their hearts, even things they would not say on a "Christian" forum board, (the slicing, dicing, killing, and slaughter really betrays and reveals what is in the heart ya know). But surely no two of us are going to completely agree on everything anyways, at least not for a long time, so it isn't as if anyone here has me duped already.

    And while on this topic of forum boards: To Richard, thank you for providing a place where people of all walks of life, faiths, non-faiths, and mindsets can have a voice. I will do my best to uphold the rules in the time I spend here in your forum.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Hi David,

    Here is where you are being dishonest with all of us, about your 'understanding' of what and who Jesus was, thinking yours is based on the Old Testament scriptures (although you never make that claim. You only use the New Testament to mangle up the nature of Jesus, despite that He fulfilled the Old).

    WRONG!

    The 'nature of Jesus' has EVERYTHING to do with whether salvation is even possible or not. If we believe in your 'Jesus', salvation is not possible.

    Because you deny who GOD says Jesus was, you are off track, and the 'salvation' you think you have, is a figment of your imagination.

    Further, you yourself DO NOT TESTIFY to having received the SALVATION which is described in the New Testament.

    Those are two TRUE WITNESSES against your doctrine.
    Another in this thread has stated matter-of-factly that "Yeshua is YHWH", (and you appear to have agreed with the statement in your replies). Do you think that this comes from Tanak or do you have any evidence from the "Old Testament"? And where in the Gospel accounts does Yeshua himself claim to be YHWH or claim to be the Father? Or where in any of the other New Testament writings does anyone claim that Yeshua is YHWH? If Yeshua was not ashamed to call the sanctified his brethren then how can it be that he is also our Father? How can this contradiction not be of any cause for alarm when we are clearly told that Bar-Jesus, ("Son of Jesus") was a false prophet and a sorcerer? Does it not seem likely to you that "Bar-Jesus" represents a "word sorcerer" who was manipulating the truth to his own benefit? Why does Paul say to him: "WILL YOU NOT CEASE TO PERVERT THE RIGHT WAYS OF THE LORD?" It is almost as if Paul knows this "Bar-Jesus" the way he speaks to him, (according to how it is worded by Luke). This is one of the main problems with Christianity in that no one seems to be willing to look into the mirror at themselves and say "Get thee behind me Satan!" But if you will notice this is likewise the place where Sha'ul, who meets up with Sergius Paulus, begins himself to be called Paulos or "Paul", (at least within the text of the Acts timeline according to Luke).

    Acts 13:6-11
    6. And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Bar-Jesus:
    7. Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
    8. But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
    9. Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with Spirit Holy, set his eyes on him,
    10. And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
    11. And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.


    A certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Elymas and "SON OF JESUS" ???
    Last edited by toxon; 05-16-2014 at 02:38 AM.

  3. #103
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    Hello Charisma

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Hi David,

    Here is where you are being dishonest with all of us, about your 'understanding' of what and who Jesus was, thinking yours is based on the Old Testament scriptures (although you never make that claim. You only use the New Testament to mangle up the nature of Jesus, despite that He fulfilled the Old).
    First of all, you should be careful with your words. I am not being dishonest. I am telling you the way I understand things. That is me being honest. I am not out to deceive anyone, It is the reverse I am trying to stop others being deceived. How do you know you are not deceived? Discuss these things to reason them out and we shall find out who is deceived. Just make sure you are not deceiving anyone, because it might be you that has misunderstood. I would not call you dishonest for lack of knowledge, or misunderstanding, even if you use any of the 38 tricks to win an argument, which I expect you are unaware of using. That is something that I have learned and try to avoid as much as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    The 'nature of Jesus' has EVERYTHING to do with whether salvation is even possible or not. If we believe in your 'Jesus', salvation is not possible.
    Why not? God made a covenant (a renewed covenant) through the blood and the sacrifice of Jesus; his only begotten Son. I do not agree with Timmy in his understanding of how the covenant works and I made a separate post, which you can comment on here. I hope to receive other contributions to that post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Because you deny who GOD says Jesus was, you are off track, and the 'salvation' you think you have, is a figment of your imagination.
    Who does God say that Jesus is/was? YHWH says; "this in my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" We are to hear and obey Jesus. What is this figment of my imagination? You are not expressing yourself clearly. That is the problem of me trying to understand you and how you have got to where you have with your understanding of these things. Why is it that you think you have a monopoly on how to understand God's plan of salvation? You can quote me all the verses that have to do with salvation and I will agree with those verses.

    Jesus is The Prophet (all prophets were human agents acting for God) spoken of by Moses. Moses says that YHWH would raise up a prophet from amongst their own brethren. Jesus was one of their brethren; a man, a human. You cannot have Jesus tested as we are, unless he was human. God is Spirit and not human. God is ONE and cannot be divided as the Trinity, or the Twinity as Timmy likes to make out.
    One of the titles of Jesus is; 'Son' of Man.' That title is for good reason. Look how many times it is written ; "the man, Jesus", or similar words. That is how Paul saw the Jesus. Now Jesus has gained immortality making him equal with God in that respect. The Son is always subject to the Father and that is the relationship that always existed from the time of Jesus' birth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Further, you yourself DO NOT TESTIFY to having received the SALVATION which is described in the New Testament.
    As it was said by someone else, "you are not saved until you inherit eternal life". If Jesus does not come quickly, you are destined to go to the grave and be there until resurrected. Jesus died and was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. Jesus died. God cannot die. Of course I have the hope of salvation. It has to be hope until salvation actually results in your resurrection or transformation if you are alive at Christ's coming. Of course, salvation came in the person of Jesus. The message of salvation was delivered to the Gentiles by Paul. That is why Paul writes; (Rom 11:11) salvation is come unto the Gentiles. Salvation has come to all through Jesus, the Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Those are two TRUE WITNESSES against your doctrine.
    There are a certainly a lot of witnesses against your own doctrine. You are denying the simple language of the Bible in which there is no figurative language to be understand. You are making up far more than you accuse me of doing.
    Unless you get all the verses to fit, you are ignoring large chunks of the Bible.

    The mystery elements of the doctrine you believe is on a par with the Trinity as was put forward by Constantine to control the people. As Toxon commented in his post, the Trinity cannot be explained; there is no analogy to explain it. M.R. woke up to the fact that he was teaching the message of the church and he repented of his ways and now he believes mush the same as I do. Only by waking up and not accepting blindly what others tell you, will you come to your own conclusion from the word itself.

    Jesus is now seated at the right hand of God. There is no higher position to have in Heaven. Jesus has been given by YHWH, his Heavenly Father, power and authority making him equal with God, but not in status above that of God. Jesus will hand over the kingdom to YHWH when it is restored. YHWH can take back his power as easily as he gives it. YHWH stays in control because he is the Creator.

    Just keep in denial of these facts and you are making yourself blind to the obvious. I do not deny Jesus came in the flesh. Think about that. If you say Jesus was more than flesh and was God, you are in danger of making yourself an antichrist. I know you are not anti Christ, but you are denying him his victory over human nature to say that he was God all along. God was pleased in his son for having been victorious over human nature. Make Jesus anything different to any other man and you deny him his victory. That means Jesus never won the victory for you by which you can be saved, if you deny him his victory over human nature which is the devil and satan.

    I know you believe in Jesus and that is commendable. I do not think you believe in the real Jesus and it is the real Jesus which is at the heart of my message. Sad that you think I do not believe in Jesus and the salvation that comes through him.

    I might not be so animated, or evangelical as some are in their witnessing for Christ, I am sober and a thinker and it is my duty to get the real Jesus preached; that is what I am doing. The real Jesus is the good news and we have to also preach the good news concerning the Kingdom of God.

    Knowing what we know, should make us brethren-in-Christ. If you have been baptized and you remember Jesus in the way he appointed, then we are agreed on the essentials.

    Shalom
    David
    Last edited by David M; 05-16-2014 at 03:39 AM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    My body has been changed several times because i believe in Jesus being God come in the form of a man, and worshipping Him as He is Yaweh.
    Hi Timmy, how do you understand the following statement from Isaiah?

    Isaiah 63:15-19 Restored Name KJV (http://yahushua.net/scriptures/isa63.htm)
    63:15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained?
    63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O YHWH, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
    63:17 O YHWH, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
    63:18 The people of thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary.
    63:19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name.


    And how do you explain the obvious discrepancies such as the following?

    John 14:27-31 KJV
    27. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
    28. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
    29. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
    30. Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
    31. But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

  5. #105
    I've changed my ideas and decided to remove this post. Rest assured I still love and believe in God <3
    Last edited by Nothing; 04-29-2017 at 01:07 AM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by toxon View Post
    Hi Timmy, how do you understand the following statement from Isaiah?

    Isaiah 63:15-19 Restored Name KJV (http://yahushua.net/scriptures/isa63.htm)
    63:15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained?
    63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O YHWH, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
    63:17 O YHWH, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.
    63:18 The people of thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary.
    63:19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name.
    Hi Toxin,

    This is a prayer made by exiles in error of who God actually is, and what they think He has done because of their mistakes. The prayer neglects to properly acknowledge their transgression with according judgment resulting as promised through covenant. Their misunderstanding of God is a result of the failure on their part to properly discern what their current situation is and why they suffer. It is not cogent with what God reveals about Himself in other places, such as the beginning of this chapter. The prayer is contrasted against how Yaweh/Yeshua presents Himself in the beginning verses.

    The contrast is not that God doesn't judge error.

    The contrast is his people in exile misunderstanding why, how, and as a result, who God actually is.

    Speak, "Thus says the LORD,
    'The corpses of men will fall like dung on the open field,
    And like the sheaf after the reaper,
    But no one will gather them."'

    Thus says the LORD, "Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom,
    and let not the mighty man boast of his might,
    let not a rich man boast of his riches ;
    but let him who boasts boast of this:
    that he understands and knows Me,
    that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth ;
    for I delight in these things," declares the LORD.
    ~ Yirmeyahu 9.22-24 ~

    He is the righteous Judge (Hebrews 13.8: Yochanan 5.21 and Berashith 18.26/ Hebrews 4.12-13; Hebrews 9:27; Hebrews 10.27-28; and in direct reference to the fuller passage you may have falsely assumed to be contradistinct, (concerning the very verses contrasting the mistaken perspective stated as a prayer)--revealing God from Yesha'Yahu 63.1-6 is the picture of Jesus who is the Word of God and God Judging on His throne in the Apocalypse-->19.13-16 and 20.11-12.

    You might have already bitten off more than you can chew, as i have placed the scandalon against what you and David seem to miss completely already about this site. You may be better off reading much of what is on record here by the Timmy before getting confrontive. There is also much that has been left unsaid for people who wish to take the bait...and you already appear to be attempting to swallow it whole.


    And how do you explain the obvious discrepancies such as the following?

    John 14:27-31 KJV
    27. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
    28. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
    29. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
    30. Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
    31. But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
    What discrepancies?

    It may also be suggested you might pay better attention to detail, and do not fail to account for corroboration with other associated texts.

    So, please point out these discrepancies you say are so obvious. Might it be added(?) that whatever you are referring to, they might seem like discrepancies to you because you and i do not walk in the same paradigm?(So state what your perceptual basis is behind the claim to that you are assuming to be such "obvious discrepancies"?

    If it is about the difference of Peace and Grace compared with Judgment, these are only two sides to one coin...kind of like you thinking Romans 5.14 breaks down becausebof the sin of Adamah??? It does not.
    [sub]The Hebrew word for blessing is the exact same word for cursing, for one example.
    (You misunderstand doing and results for individual being. This convolutes your understanding what this and the rest of Romans 5 relates.)[/b]

    I do not really have all that much time to doddle here presently, but i will get back to you when ameniable. (A deadline must be met by next week Monday (but an IPO may open for a stint NTL), and most everything is going to have to play second fiddle, and the web gets third place, so until whenever then comes, so you can give yourself until at least Sunday night before spouting off some more...and please consider what you are told in direct relation to Scripture provided.

    Timmy
    Last edited by Timmy; 05-16-2014 at 02:17 PM.
    The mind grows by taking in
    :Mesiras Nefesh:
    THE HEART GROWS BY GIVING OUT

  7. #107
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    Hi Toxon,

    Not much time, so I will let scripture speak for itself.

    Please also follow up any other cross-references in a good transation (like the KJV), to fill out the picture.

    You asked -

    If Yeshua was not ashamed to call the sanctified his brethren then how can it be that he is also our Father?
    You quoted from Hebrews 2. Did you realise that? Look ...

    11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

    12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

    13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.


    Isaiah 8:11 - 18

    11 For the Lord spake thus to me with a strong hand,
    and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,
    12 Say ye not, A confederacy,
    to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy;
    neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
    13 Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself;
    and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
    14 And he shall be for a sanctuary;
    but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel,
    for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
    15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken,
    and be snared, and be taken.


    16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
    17 And I will wait upon the Lord,
    that hideth his face from the house of Jacob,
    and I will look for him.
    18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me
    are for signs and for wonders in Israel
    from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion
    .


    [In case you don't feel like looking up verses, I will post them here. These next are to show that Peter fully understood Jesus was the stone of stumbling, to which Jesus Himself referred in

    Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

    Psalm 118:21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.
    22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
    23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.

    Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
    he that believeth shall not make haste
    .

    1 Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, 2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

    4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

    7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
    ]

    John 10:27 - 30

    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    30 I and my Father are one.


    John 14:7 - 11a

    7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

    8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

    9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me



    Reading on in John 14, we find the the Son and the Father are going to make their abode in us (if we keep His words). v 23

    Jesus, has just told the disciples that it is the Father in Him who does the works. This strongly implies that when the Father is in us (the promise of the Father received by the Holy Spirit), we also will be able to do 'the works' - although that is not what this passage seems to be about on the face of it. Nevertheless, once one has believed into the Son, and the Son and the Father have made their abode in the believer, there is power to obey Him.


    Jeremiah 23:5, 6

    Before I quote these two verses, let me point out that when the KJV refers to the people called by His name, it is more properly translated, 'the people upon whom my name is called'. I think if you remember this - that it is God putting His name upon each of us in response to our coming to Him - then it helps to keep a truly scriptural perspective on both how He sees us, and how we should see our relationship to Him.

    Therefore, in the following verses, when God says He will raise up a Branch, clearly, His will, His timing, and His purpose is paramount.

    5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Again clearly, we see that although David's descendant is going to be a man raised up by God, HIS NAME is going to be THE LORD (Jehovah).

    THIS then, is THE NAME upon which those who call, will be saved.

    Peter speaking, quoting Joel, who is talking about 'the Lord' (Jehovah)

    Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


    Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered:
    for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.



    These are some of the clearest links between the Old references to Messiah, and the New Testament.

    Remember, there was no New Testament from which to preach at the time of Pentecost.

    Every sermon in the New Testament is based on what was already in the only scriptures which existed - the Tanakh - and they were all with 'Israel'.

    Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


    The other big giveaway about the Branch which God was going to raise up to David being from eternity, is that the most significant aspect of God's promise to David was that He would reign for ever: 'of His kingdom there shall be no end'.

    Psalm 102 is quoted in Hebrews 1, the first 8 verses of which are also of great significance, establishing the one who purged our sins by His death on the cross, as the one (El) by whom the worlds were made;

    24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days:
    thy years are throughout all generations.

    25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth:
    and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

    26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure:
    yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment;
    as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

    27 But thou art the same,
    and thy years shall have no end
    .


    Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief:
    when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days,
    and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
    and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
    and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,
    The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom,
    to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.
    The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.



    Gabriel quotes Isaiah, to Mary

    Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
    33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.



    And there is more, but this is a start in the most obvious places.
    Last edited by Charisma; 05-16-2014 at 01:32 PM.
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Ephesians 3

  8. #108
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    Hi David,

    If you believe the verses which I've posted to toxon, then you cannot also hold that Jesus was not God.


    Now who is not including chunks of the Bible written in plain English?



    I have discovered that the whole Newberry Bible is in googlebooks, here.
    Last edited by Charisma; 05-16-2014 at 02:10 PM.
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Ephesians 3

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Tellus
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    741
    Oh, and Toxin?

    There is no Esua half of man unless you could possibly be projecting a multi-prsonality disorder (perhaps schizophrenia) into a broader spectrum of things?


    Seriously, are you thinking there could be a Esav and then a Ya'akov in people making up two halves? Ifnso, which one are you respectively: the reneck or the swindler/deceiver? If this is right consideration concerning the two halves, does this make you a red necked swindling deceiver?

    i don't think so.

    Here is a thread Charisma started (but we have yet to complete). It is directly related to this issue...and a serious study of Romans five may do you a world of good.
    Last edited by Timmy; 05-16-2014 at 02:38 PM.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Tellus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakeboy View Post
    LOL !

    Hey there Snakeboy, you don't mind if the Timmy joins in with you do you¿

    LOL ¡

    The mind grows by taking in
    :Mesiras Nefesh:
    THE HEART GROWS BY GIVING OUT

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