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  1. #11
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    Aug 2011
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    773
    For a while now I have been wondering how many, if any, Messianic Prophecies they actually are. I am virtually convinced that much of what NT writers claimed to have been prophetic was in fact not, but I now wonder about the Jewish expectations for Moshiach as well.

    An example of an accepted Messianic prophecy that I find to be questionable is found in Micah 4. According to Jewish thought, this text is a prophecy that says that Mochiach, a man anointed by G-d would rebuild the temple in Jerusalem and bring about a time of world peace. After reading over the book of Micah a few times, it now seems that the beginning of chapter 4 thru verse 8, is a continuation of the context that began in chapter 3, verse 1. Its theme repeats what was communicated in chapters 1 and 2 and it gets summarized again in verses 9-14 only to be re-repeated starting in chapter 5, verse 1!

    Hi throwback,

    No doubt if you listen to the unbelievers descended from Jacob, it is easy enough to 'miss' all the references to Messiah in their scriptures. But that is not how those who were watching for the Messiah 'saw' Him when He was revealed. In fact, there are so many pointers which enabled that generation to identify Him unequivocally, that Jesus is quoted as saying, '19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.' John 3. In John chapter 8, He is face to face with religious leaders who point blank refuse to acknowledge who He is. But that is not because they didn't know. It is because they chose not to.

    Think about it. From a very early stage they plotted His death. They were completely unscrupulous in the end, using money from the Temple Treasury to pay Judas to betray Him, and then hypocritically refusing to take the money back because it was 'blood money'. Their religious integrity was superficial.

    But the people whose hearts were towards the word of God to their generation, received Him, left everything and followed Him, and eventually - after His resurrection - were dramatically changed from a group who were too afraid to go outside for fear of 'the Jews', to a team of individually empowered men and women who could go outside into a crowd of foreigners declaring the wonderful works of God and His goodness to the bemused strangers.

    The Messiah had promised them power, and He kept His word - the fulfilment of part of Joel's prophecy.

    Joel 2
    25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten,
    the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm,
    my great army which I sent among you.
    26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied,
    and praise the name of the Lord your God,
    that hath dealt wondrously with you:
    and my people shall never be ashamed.
    27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
    and that I am the Lord your God, and none else:
    and my people shall never be ashamed.



    28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
    that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
    and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
    your old men shall dream dreams,
    your young men shall see visions:
    29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids
    in those days will I pour out my spirit.


    (Notice who had sent his 'great army' amongst them?



    A few short years later, these sent ones (apostles) were quoting Amos.

    Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they ...'


    If your heart is genuinely searching for the Person of the Messiah in the scriptures, He is there from Genesis 1 all the way through.

    John 5:Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

    As He was speaking to unbelievers, He followed His statement with








    40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.













    You have to understand that there is a principle at work when God is speaking, which very powerfully works in those who are listening.

    Listening is different from reading objectively. Objectivity protects you from the message. Then there is nothing to believe into.
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Ephesians 3

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    165
    The funny thing about the human "heart" is that it is easy deceived by and often quite wrong about what is true and real due to its own biased viewpoint. If you want to find a message in a writing that has no messege, the mind has a way of creating one for you. That's why people that have been conditioned to believe in whatever, can look at anything to reaffirm and confirm their perceptions.

    As far as what the OT scripture were ACTUALLY messianic references, we have no concensus. I am of the mindset (at this time), that both NT Christians and Torah observing Jews are off base as it pertains to their expectations related to Moshiach. From the scriptures, it appears that the messiah figure (assuming on 1 individual is being referenced) was to assume the role shortly after the Babylonian captivity, not 100s or 1000s of years later.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Daytona
    Posts
    1,855
    Hey Throwback, Is yours a Question of timing?
    The timing "to build Jerusalem" would start after Cyrus ordered the restoration, Ezra 1:1 -- right? Then lots of time before Jesus declared himself the messias in John 4:26.

    Dan9:25 KJV "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

    Messiah and Messias (anointed - H4899)
    Twice in Daniel: 9:25, 26 , and twice in John: 1:41, 4:25
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    773
    Hi throwback,

    not 100s or 1000s of years later.
    There is not a thousand years between the sacking of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar's army, and the coming of Christ.

    The following website is useful, although not perfectly accurate, and will help you follow the biblical narrative with greater ease.

    http://bibleworldhistory.com
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Ephesians 3

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by Charisma View Post
    Hi throwback,



    There is not a thousand years between the sacking of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar's army, and the coming of Christ.

    The following website is useful, although not perfectly accurate, and will help you follow the biblical narrative with greater ease.

    http://bibleworldhistory.com
    100s of years from the Babylonian captivity to the time of Jesus and 1000s of years from the captivity to the "millennial fulfillments" many await.

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