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  1. #1
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    The Origin of Life

    This video shows one of the ways life may have began on our planet, "Science may never know exactly how life DID start, but we will know many ways how life COULD start."

    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  2. #2

    Hmmm

    Interesting.

  3. #3
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    That video is extremely intriguing. I'm going to have to do some research on Dr. Jack Szostack who, by the way, shared the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine in 2009.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #4
    Unregistered Guest

    The Origin of Life

    If will be found that the DNA is entirely based on a specific mathematical code that is the same used also at every level of creation from the micro to macro, including astronomical.
    Would that prove that evolution was a nicely packaged fairy tale?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    If will be found that the DNA is entirely based on a specific mathematical code that is the same used also at every level of creation from the micro to macro, including astronomical.
    Would that prove that evolution was a nicely packaged fairy tale?
    No. At best, it would show that the DNA was designed. This wouldn't change anything about the established facts relating to evolution. I get the impression that you are ignorant of the relevant science. Have you ever read a single book written by an evolutionary scientist that explains the evidence? If not, then it would be absurd for you to think that it is a "fairy tale." Indeed, you would be like a hill billy who can't add 1 + 2 thinking that he could refute calculus.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #6
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    Hello Richard
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    No. At best, it would show that the DNA was designed.
    I know you do not rule out the possibility that there might be God, even though you think the possibility is so small as to be insignificant. However, once it is conceded there is design in DNA , the next deduction is that there has to be a designer. And so the deductions continue from there.

    I accept God is the designer.God not just a designer otherwise we would have nothing made. We understand that designers have their designs made into something that functions. God is not just the designer, He is a maker; He is, the ONE and only; Creator. Once that point is deducted, Evolution is ruled out.

    For all that we do not know about creation in detail, I am not convinced by the Theory of Evolution that it explains how symbiotic relationships between plants and animals could have come about. For symbiotic relationships to come about require very short periods of time, otherwise one then the other would die off and could not perpetuate. Evolution is explained by very small changes over a long period of time. Evolution is incompatible with that which requires the opposite.

    How plants and humming birds can blindly evolve from something that must have started off as non-symbiotic for both plant and animal into a symbiotic relationship is an unexplainable mystery. To my mind the only explanation is that it has to have been created that way.

    Of course, to the Evolutionist, there has to be an explanation that supports the theory of Evolution. There is an article in Wikipedia about Coevolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coevolution) However, I do not think this gives a good enough answer. You think the probability for God is miniscule, yet the probability for Evolution and symbiotic relations is even more miniscule.

    For me, the probability of God, the designer and maker, is higher than the probability of Evolution. On the basis of probabilities, I go with God.


    All the best
    David

  7. #7
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    Hello Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    This video shows one of the ways life may have began on our planet, "Science may never know exactly how life DID start, but we will know many ways how life COULD start."
    While I am downloading the video to watch later and with less breakups than watching directly on Youtube, can you tell me what piece of music is playing in the background?

    Whilst the music seems very familiar and I should know it as if it is a piece of classical music by one of the great composers, I have the music/song sung by Peter Gabriel buzzing in my head. I know he is not the only singe to have sung the song; 'The book of love'.

    Here is the link. Despite the slower pace of the music, I am sure there is a similarity somewhere. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmnDXRJ7btE

    Whilst listening to the song again, and as I was thinking about what makes the mind of humans different to the animals, the word "transcendental" came up in the lyrics. Then I was thinking about music. Can animals make music? Can animals appreciate the aesthetics of the arts such as; music, poetry, singing, paintings? How did the ability to enjoy these things come from Evolution and why is it not evident in the animals? You might have answered "yes" to the question and say that it is evident in the animals. Bird song, is not really musical or a song; not in the sense humans sing and make music.

    All the best
    David

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose


    While I am downloading the video to watch later and with less breakups than watching directly on Youtube, can you tell me what piece of music is playing in the background?

    Whilst the music seems very familiar and I should know it as if it is a piece of classical music by one of the great composers, I have the music/song sung by Peter Gabriel buzzing in my head. I know he is not the only singe to have sung the song; 'The book of love'.

    Here is the link. Despite the slower pace of the music, I am sure there is a similarity somewhere. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmnDXRJ7btE

    Whilst listening to the song again, and as I was thinking about what makes the mind of humans different to the animals, the word "transcendental" came up in the lyrics. Then I was thinking about music. Can animals make music? Can animals appreciate the aesthetics of the arts such as; music, poetry, singing, paintings? How did the ability to enjoy these things come from Evolution and why is it not evident in the animals? You might have answered "yes" to the question and say that it is evident in the animals. Bird song, is not really musical or a song; not in the sense humans sing and make music.

    All the best
    David
    Hello David

    What changed everything for the human animal is becoming self-aware ... that act of evolution was a game changer! The mutation that caused the human brain to grow larger and produce more neurons, allowed more mirror neurons and greater memory storage capacity that tipped the scales from primate to human. Also, another mutation in the FOXP2 gene gave us the ability to create language. All our reasoning skills are dependent upon the fact that we are self-aware, this is what makes us human ... and all that happened because of a few changes in our brains.

    You mentioned the appreciation of music ... that again is a product of self-awareness. Not only can we make music like many animals can, but because of self-awareness we are able to use reason to figure out how to create music that is meaningful to us and that we like the sound of. Once self-awareness kicks in everything changes. A lot can be learned from watching how a baby changes from having awareness to self-awareness ... knowing that they are an "I". The primate baby and the human baby are very similar, the main difference being the human baby has the "potential" to develop reasoning skills and realize they are a "self".

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  9. #9
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    Hello Rose
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    The mutation that caused the human brain to grow larger and produce more neurons, allowed more mirror neurons and greater memory storage capacity that tipped the scales from primate to human.
    What about other animals/mammals that have large brains? They perhaps have better abilities that humans are very bad at., eg. navigating under water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Also, another mutation in the FOXP2 gene gave us the ability to create language.
    Do those who speak many languages have more genes associated with lanuage? Do we have different genes for different learning processes? I am just asking, because all genes will have a purpose and we are in the process of finding out what each gene is responsible for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    You mentioned the appreciation of music ... that again is a product of self-awareness. Not only can we make music like many animals can,
    What animals can compose music by ear that is repeatable and not a mish-mash of sounds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    but because of self-awareness we are able to use reason to figure out how to create music that is meaningful to us and that we like the sound of.
    Animals could also like sounds, but does that mean they like music? People play music to plants to stimulate growth. Does the plant respond to the music, or just any vibration within a frequency range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Once self-awareness kicks in everything changes. A lot can be learned from watching how a baby changes from having awareness to self-awareness ... knowing that they are an "I". The primate baby and the human baby are very similar, the main difference being the human baby has the "potential" to develop reasoning skills and realize they are a "self".
    The ability to reason, does separate us from the animals. Primates do show limited ability to work out puzzles in order to get a food reward, but that hardly qualifies them for having a reasoned discussion, since their vocabulary is extremely limited and not easily learned by humans. A parrot remembers a lot of words by sound, but can you have a conversation with a parrot?

    All the best
    David
    Last edited by David M; 03-25-2014 at 11:20 AM.

  10. #10
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    Hello James

    From a scientific point of view, you make a lot of sense. The human mind is capable of great things, but it is also ignorant of a lot of things. Even the collective knowledge of all human minds is lacking the fundamental knowledge of how things came into existence. The problem we have when we go back in time is when do we get to the origin (of anything)?

    The one thing that defines God is; God has no beginning. God has no origin. Everything else has a genesis (an origin). Having no beginning is extremely difficult for our mind to grasp. We can either accept it or reject it, either way, we cannot test it and determine it scientifically.

    At what point do we determine design within the Universe. Going back to fundamental atomic particles (as we understand them and have modeled them) do we see design?

    The Universe is scientifically thought to be winding down. From "order" that we could call "design", as things break down, chaos and randomness and non-design is increasing. Nevertheless, in a mass of randomly distributed atomic particles are those particles designed?

    James, you have probably not read the post where I was asking a question and no-one came back with an answer. Let me run this by you.

    Man is building artificial intelligence. Computer robots are looking more human as each generation of robot is built. Robots could even design and build future robots. Imagine a self-programmiing/learning computer and you have built it. Now the robot with all its gained knowledge determines the answer its own question; "where did I come from?". The computer-robot with all its knowledge (limited [ignorance]) determines it evolved. Would you agree with the robot's conclusion?

    Another thing about God and this is the test by which God says that this is the only way you can prove God and he says (paraphrased); Who else can tell you a thing before it happens? It is not possible for humans to predict with 100% certainty anything that will happen in the future. God is the only one capable of saying what will happen in the future. How can God be so certain? The reason is; God can make it happen.

    God's word is full of foretelling the future and I am convinced, God's prophecies have come to pass. That is why I accept all of God's word is truth and that it has very important lessons to teach us. I am convinced that God has told the future, future things did come to pass and therefore things that have been told will happen and have not happened yet, will eventually happen. I am convinced in the existence of God for this reason. Once I accept the existence of God, I accept God is the Creator even though I am completely ignorant of what that involves.

    All the best
    David
    Last edited by David M; 03-26-2014 at 12:56 AM.

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