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  1. #11
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    Hello Rose
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hello David,
    How could you possible think a deity capable of creating the universe and everything in it, would leave to humans the responsibility of writing and preserving a written document of his words in its original form?
    I do not have to "think", because that is the way it is. The truth in God's word is still there. Man-made garbage just makes it a little more difficult to find.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Why would a creator even use the fallible method of writing to convey his laws, when they could have been formed in the heart of man like an instinct. Just think, would you ever use one of your immature children to write down and deliver an important message that you wanted given to your other children. I think not.
    The method of inspiration was not fallible. If you are careless in preserving something has been given you to personally preserve, then whose fault is it if you fail to preserve it? You want to absolve yourself of all responsibility and blame God for letting you do that. God made the insects; do you want to be like an insect and operate on instinct alone? Why not just blame the people before you for not preserving God's word as they should?

    Who said the writers were immature? All it takes is an adult person who has learnt to write. God could have written everything on stone as he did with the Ten Commandments. Whose fault is it that the first set got broken? The scribes wrote what the prophets told them. We are talking about a supernatural event to be given the word of God by inspiration. This is why the Bible is not just the writings of bronze-age men as you like to think it is. Thinking as you do, makes you like the bronze-age people you speak of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    You say that the errors in the Bible are caused by god allowing man to rule himself and have free choice. Well, if that were really the case then the total blame lies with god, because he knew from the beginning exactly what was going to happen and he could have prevented it.
    So it is God's fault you are born and you have the opportunity of eternal life. You refuse to believe God's word/promises, so why blame God for your own faults?

    All the best
    David

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose
    I do not have to "think", because that is the way it is. The truth in God's word is still there. Man-made garbage just makes it a little more difficult to find.

    The method of inspiration was not fallible. If you are careless in preserving something has been given you to personally preserve, then whose fault is it if you fail to preserve it? You want to absolve yourself of all responsibility and blame God for letting you do that. God made the insects; do you want to be like an insect and operate on instinct alone? Why not just blame the people before you for not preserving God's word as they should?
    Hello David,

    If god is true as you believe, then of course he is to blame for all the garbage in the Bible. Obviously the task of preserving the original words of Scripture was beyond the capabilities of men, so your god would be held responsible. In the same manner parents are held responsible for the actions of their underage children.

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Who said the writers were immature? All it takes is an adult person who has learnt to write. God could have written everything on stone as he did with the Ten Commandments. Whose fault is it that the first set got broken? The scribes wrote what the prophets told them. We are talking about a supernatural event to be given the word of God by inspiration. This is why the Bible is not just the writings of bronze-age men as you like to think it is. Thinking as you do, makes you like the bronze-age people you speak of.

    So it is God's fault you are born and you have the opportunity of eternal life. You refuse to believe God's word/promises, so why blame God for your own faults?

    All the best
    David
    It takes a lot more then the ability to write to be considered mature. Children in 2nd and 3rd grade begin to learn how to write stories, but they are far from considered mature. Again, if the Biblegod were real then he most certainly would be held accountable for what Moses did, because god was the one who required something of Moses that he was unable to accomplish.

    I am not blaming god for my birth or my faults, since I don't believe in his existence. I am fully responsible for my own actions and whatever purpose and meaning my life has. Whatever I make of my life is because of my efforts and the efforts of others, it has nothing to do with some supernatural deity. I am amazed when I hear people thanking god, when a doctor saves a persons life, but when a person dies at the hands of a doctor they blame the doctor.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hello David,

    If god is true as you believe, then of course he is to blame for all the garbage in the Bible. Obviously the task of preserving the original words of Scripture was beyond the capabilities of men, so your god would be held responsible. In the same manner parents are held responsible for the actions of their underage children.



    It takes a lot more then the ability to write to be considered mature. Children in 2nd and 3rd grade begin to learn how to write stories, but they are far from considered mature. Again, if the Biblegod were real then he most certainly would be held accountable for what Moses did, because god was the one who required something of Moses that he was unable to accomplish.

    I am not blaming god for my birth or my faults, since I don't believe in his existence. I am fully responsible for my own actions and whatever purpose and meaning my life has. Whatever I make of my life is because of my efforts and the efforts of others, it has nothing to do with some supernatural deity. I am amazed when I hear people thanking god, when a doctor saves a persons life, but when a person dies at the hands of a doctor they blame the doctor.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Hi Rose:

    Why do you say:
    I am not blaming god for my birth or my faults, since I don't believe in his existence.
    But you said earlier:...
    Originally Posted by Rose
    Hi Joel,

    I answered your questions in Red.



    God Bless,
    Rose

    Hi Rose:
    Jesus is speaking of all the blood that had been shed up to that generation (the He is speaking to)....He ends with the statement that there house (the Temple) is left desolate, which of course is exactly what happened.
    So, maybe I confused your statements but it seems as if you do think god exists and Jesus might be a real person but then you just do not believe in IHVH the "biblegod"....

    Please explain....

    Namaste,

    Mystykal
    Last edited by Mystykal; 01-18-2014 at 01:40 AM.
    Mystykal

  4. #14
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    Hello Rose
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hello David,

    If god is true as you believe, then of course he is to blame for all the garbage in the Bible. Obviously the task of preserving the original words of Scripture was beyond the capabilities of men, so your god would be held responsible. In the same manner parents are held responsible for the actions of their underage children.
    In the sense that God is the Creator, then God has to take ultimate responsibility for the way things have been set up. If a car goes out of control due to a mechanical failure and kills the driver of the car, do you blame the designer and all the workers for making that car? What if the car did not have a mechanical failure and the driver still has an accident and gets killed, who do you blame?
    We are in a world in which time and chance happens to everyone. We can say God is responsible for allowing time and chance. Would you want it any other way.? You retaliate at being given instruction which has come from God and think you do not have to live by rules, so you want your freedom, yet you want God to stop every evil act, which men and women are capable of, and which you have the capability of doing (if you so choose).
    You fail to appreciate God, who judges righteously, can save all those who have been wrongly killed. You do not want to believe that is possible. Everything you think God should do, God will possibly do, but not to your time-scale. God is dealing with consequences of men's evil and when Judgement Day comes, then the righteous have nothing to fear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    It takes a lot more then the ability to write to be considered mature. Children in 2nd and 3rd grade begin to learn how to write stories, but they are far from considered mature.
    I agree. However, you are making assumptions about the characters used by God of whom you know nothing about. I expect the prophets of God could have been far more intelligent than you and me. Their intelligence is not to be measured against the knowledge we have today. You cannot compare the prophets of God to that of young children. Take the example of baptism. Baptism is to be done by those who are of adult age whereby they are able to understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. It is done by people who take responsibility for their own life and responsibility to follow the instruction of the Creator. I think that you are still in the childhood stage of understanding the God of the Bible. I say that because you make statements that show you do not understand how God is the Righteous Judge. That is why you do not see the actions of God as moral (by human standards) and you now attempt to justify your attack on God. The word of God is a warts and all account of men's activities, even those of God's chosen people; Israel. God takes responsibility for his Creation, but as for man having freewill, man has to accept blame for the results of the freewill he exercises. Hence, I shall continue to say, you have to blame man first. Do you ever balance the goodness of God against the severity of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Again, if the Biblegod were real then he most certainly would be held accountable for what Moses did, because god was the one who required something of Moses that he was unable to accomplish.
    When you believed in God and the kingdom of God, did you think Moses would not be in the Kingdom of God? Moses was not perfect and Moses had to bear the responsibility for his mistakes. Moses did not complain to God for what was Moses's mistake. Moses was denied entry into the Promised Land because of his mistake, but seeing Moses was coming to the end of his natural life, Moses would not have lived for long, had he entered the land. Moses will live for eternity in the promised land in the time of the Kingdom of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    I am not blaming god for my birth or my faults, since I don't believe in his existence. I am fully responsible for my own actions and whatever purpose and meaning my life has. Whatever I make of my life is because of my efforts and the efforts of others, it has nothing to do with some supernatural deity.
    I know you do not believe in the existence of God, but allowing for the very small possibility God does exist, by what you say, you have to blame God. You are saying that God is to blame because he has made everything and God is the Creator of life. That life has resulted in your birth, therefore you have to blame God for all your actions. If you replace God by the term Evolution, then you are blaming Evolution for everything.

    Now you are saying you accept responsibility for your actions, and therefore you take the blame, so why do you think Moses was not to blame? Why do you shift the blame for everything onto God? Given that man is to blame, what then do you expect God to do? Should God do nothing, or should God deal with it? God can be seen to be dealing with the consequence of men's actions, however, God is handling it his way and not according to how you think he should.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    I am amazed when I hear people thanking god, when a doctor saves a persons life, but when a person dies at the hands of a doctor they blame the doctor.
    Since we are told that God is the giver of life and can be the taker of life, then we have to get the situation like the one you cite into proper perspective. There is nothing wrong for giving God the praise for all the good that happens in our lives, even though those good things happen by time and chance. For the same reason, we should not blame God for the tragedies in our life. If you had watched the series on exposition of the Book of Job which I recommended to you, you would understand this when the speaker talked about our happiness changing. We wrongly attach what happens in our lives to God, instead of relating situations to our own state of happiness. When good things happen in our lives, we are happy. When bad things happen in our lives or the lives of others, we lose our happiness. We wrongly attach our state of happiness to God. We should not think that God should do everything according to what makes us happy. In times of good, we think God exists and in times of great tragedy, people will say; "there is no God". According to our state of happiness, God would be winking in and out of existence. This is not how it is, and that is why we have to get this into proper perspective.

    Once a person is in 'The Will of God', it does not matter what befalls them in their life, because when they are saved and are in the kingdom of God, that more than makes up for the suffering or brevity of this life. This offer of eternal life is the goodness of God you fail to appreciate. Of course, we shall go around in circles discussing this point, because you will say; what is the evidence for that? I will say; we have the evidence of the resurrection etc. etc. Even though I have the full assurance by all the evidence that we have on record, personal eternal life remains a matter of faith. That is what God requires us to have; faith in Him. Eternal life has to be a matter of faith until that faith becomes reality.

    All the best
    David

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    Hi Rose:

    Why do you say:

    But you said earlier:...

    So, maybe I confused your statements but it seems as if you do think god exists and Jesus might be a real person but then you just do not believe in IHVH the "biblegod"....

    Please explain....

    Namaste,

    Mystykal
    Hi Mystykal,

    As I explained on the other thread, the confusion comes from your quoting from a post I wrote back in August of 2009, when I was still a Christian.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  6. #16
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    Greetings Mister President and CEO of the bible wheel corporation

    "The holographs are found in a very limited number of verses, only a few dozen or so. Therefore, they give no support to your assertion that "Every book in the bible was originally inspired in its totality."

    The SIZE of the holographs have no bearing on whether or not what is ENTAILED in their open writings is true. Genesis 1:1-5 AND John 1:1-5 CLEARLY state that God exists, created the universe AND that he revealed himself in the person of JESUS. Furthermore, I didn't mean that the holographs on their own demonstrated that all 66 books were divinely inspired. I think it's pretty obvious I didn't mean that. What demonstrates that EVERY SINGLE BOOK IN THE BIBLE (all 66) is divinely inspired is the large scale structure of the bible (the "bible wheel"), which runs through ALL 66 books AND the correlation between the 66 chapters of Isaiah with the 66 books of the bible. Hence, we already have clear evidence of a supernatural origin for THE ENTIRE MESSAGE of Genesis 1:1-5 with John 1:1-5 (thereby confirming its message) AND for EVERY SINGLE BOOK IN THE BIBLE. Now if it can be shown that there are "illogical" or "immoral" elements WITHIN those 66 books, then obviously those elements would be the result of fallible men tampering with the original writings.

    "Neither the Bible Wheel nor the Isaiah-Bible Correlation are nearly as "perfect" as would be expected if they were designed by an omniscient being"

    That's a subjective argument. If there is evidence of a supernatural hand behind the biblical text, which there clearly is, then THAT confirms its supernatural origin. Further, even if the evidence was "imperfect" (whatever that means), that shouldn't be a problem for you because you already believe at the very least that much of the bible is already "imperfect" anyways (in fact, you believe much of it is vile). So just as the writings you judge to be "illogical" or "immoral" WITHIN the 66 books would be the result of fallible men tampering with the original text, any "imperfection" in the supernatural evidence of the text would ALSO be the result of fallible men tampering with the original text.

    "The fact that Genesis 1:1-5 and John 1:1-5 (the source of the Creation Holograph) "affirm that God exists" does not mean that your particular kind of God, or any God for that matter, actually exists"

    HUH??? You lost me here ... What part of "In the beginning GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH" isn't clear to you??? What part of "ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM (JESUS) AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANYTHING MADE THAT WAS MADE"??? And btw, we know from Polycarp, the STUDENT of JOHN (John being a direct student of Jesus himself), that John wrote this gospel.

    "Genesis is based on erroneous Ancient Near East cosmological mythology commonly believed by ignorant people 3000 years ago"

    This is a smokescreen. We've already GRANTED that anything within the divinely inspired 66 books of the bible that can be shown to be "illogical" or "immoral" would obviously be the result of fallible men tampering with the original text. Nothing in Genesis 1:1-5 OR John 1:1-5 is "illogical" or "immoral". In fact, it's PURE TRUTH that is backed up by the creation holograph (not to mention the overwhelming evidence from genetics, the breastplate of the high priest and the "star of Israel" pattern ALL linking back to Genesis 1:1).

    "Your "proof" that the evil in the world must have come from some source other than God denies that God is the source of all"

    No, it doesn't at all actually. Of course God is the source of all. But he's not the source of your freely made decisions. And don't bother running to the bible to try and find some passage that you think contradicts the idea that we have free will because I would just refer you back to the criteria I already put forth (ANYTHING within the divinely inspired 66 books that can be SHOWN to be "illogical" or "immoral" would obviously be the result of fallible men tampering with the original text). It is ILLOGICAL to deny we have free will (the ability to freely make choices). It negates reason itself because in order to be able to reason, you have to be able to CHOOSE between a correct proposition and an incorrect proposition. So if we have free will, then obviously God isn't the source of your freely made decisions. He may FOREKNOW them, but they are YOUR freely made decisions nevertheless.

    "If God is omniscient and he intentionally created the world in such a way that it would certainly exist in its present state, then we must conclude he desired it to be in its present state"

    I don't deny that God, being omniscient (the creator of TIME, space, matter and energy obviously has all knowledge of all events IN past, present and future time), INTENTIONALLY allowed our fallen world to be actualized through the FREELY MADE DECISIONS of sentient beings (eventually resulting in a greater good). I'm saying God didn't HIMSELF directly create the world in a fallen state. See the difference? And even if he DID, that would only mean the biblical God intentionally created a fallen world. You don't see a problem there??? You would be arguing the biblical God EXISTS! In that case, you'd essentially be saying God doesn't allow ANY interference with his plans (even though THE ENTIRE BIBLE CLAIMS OTHERWISE and the logical necessity of free will being a reality militates against that idea as well) and he inspired the "illogical" and "immoral" elements you say are found within the divinely inspired 66 books. Isn't it OBVIOUS that any such elements within the 66 books would be examples of fallible men tampering with the original text???

    "What is a "No God of the Gaps fallacy" supposed to mean? Is it the "fallacy" of refusing to accept the fallacy that our ignorance implies God did it"

    No, it's the fallacy that ignorance implies "IT DUN DONE ITSELF" (or it must have some unknown naturalistic explanation that hasn't been found yet). And in this case it's even worse because we KNOW the large scale structure of the bible could never have been formed outside of a supernatural mind. And it's only logical to believe that this supernatural mind is the very one that is openly proclaimed THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE BIBLE.

    "She did not say that no evidence would be sufficient. She said the existing evidence is not sufficient"

    Anybody can say that. That's why I brought up the fact that there are actually MORE ppl who deny something that is staring them in the face 24/7 (the external world) than there are who reject the reality of a God. The idea that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" is a joke because extraordinary evidence is SUBJECTIVE. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who understands the evidence behind the creation holograph, the bible wheel, the biblical correlation with the 66 chapters of Isaiah (and the overwhelming evidence from genetics, the breastplate of the high priest and the "star of Israel" pattern ALL linking back to Genesis 1:1) and refuses to acknowledge that it is clear evidence backing up the supernatural claims of the bible (or the original writings AT THE VERY LEAST) is simply in denial. I'm just being honest.

    "And speaking of folks who reject truth REGARDLESS of evidence, that describes the essential character of religious believers.

    Really??? You do know that according to the definition of atheism you subscribe to (the "lack of belief" bit), atheists are just as religious as theists, right? That would make hundreds of millions of Buddhists and hundreds of millions Chinese spiritists ATHEISTS (not to mention Satanists and Raelians)! On top of that, there are millions of theists who AREN'T religious. So religion isn't exclusive to theism or atheism either way ...

    Btw, studies also show that Christians who are MORE religiously devoted are LESS likely to believe in a whole slew of paranormal phenomenon (stuff like magic crystals, astrology, alien abductions, bigfoot, ghosts and all that good stuff). Hence, ppl who are NOT religious are MORE likely to believe in these things than religiously devout Christians. Pretty ironic, no?

    Richard, on a side note ... I noticed on page 399 of your book you hinted at a future book on the subject of the Hebrew alphabet. Is that still in the works or did you ditch that? I was just curious.

    SUPER SHALOMness

    BINI
    Last edited by Gambini; 01-18-2014 at 01:23 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose
    In the sense that God is the Creator, then God has to take ultimate responsibility for the way things have been set up. If a car goes out of control due to a mechanical failure and kills the driver of the car, do you blame the designer and all the workers for making that car? What if the car did not have a mechanical failure and the driver still has an accident and gets killed, who do you blame?
    We are in a world in which time and chance happens to everyone. We can say God is responsible for allowing time and chance. Would you want it any other way.? You retaliate at being given instruction which has come from God and think you do not have to live by rules, so you want your freedom, yet you want God to stop every evil act, which men and women are capable of, and which you have the capability of doing (if you so choose).

    You fail to appreciate God, who judges righteously, can save all those who have been wrongly killed. You do not want to believe that is possible. Everything you think God should do, God will possibly do, but not to your time-scale. God is dealing with consequences of men's evil and when Judgement Day comes, then the righteous have nothing to fear.
    Hi David,

    What we are talking about is interpretation, translation and copying errors in the Bible. Back before the printing press and copying machines there was no way a original document could be copied without introducing errors, that in and of itself is a huge design flaw. No intelligent person would ever expect a written document to remain unaltered, when the only way it could be propagated was by people translating it and copying it.

    There is no way that anyone who has read the Bible can honestly say that its god judges righteously. The Bible is filled with bias, inequality and injustice sanctioned and decreed by its god.

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    I agree. However, you are making assumptions about the characters used by God of whom you know nothing about. I expect the prophets of God could have been far more intelligent than you and me. Their intelligence is not to be measured against the knowledge we have today. You cannot compare the prophets of God to that of young children. Take the example of baptism. Baptism is to be done by those who are of adult age whereby they are able to understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. It is done by people who take responsibility for their own life and responsibility to follow the instruction of the Creator. I think that you are still in the childhood stage of understanding the God of the Bible. I say that because you make statements that show you do not understand how God is the Righteous Judge. That is why you do not see the actions of God as moral (by human standards) and you now attempt to justify your attack on God. The word of God is a warts and all account of men's activities, even those of God's chosen people; Israel. God takes responsibility for his Creation, but as for man having freewill, man has to accept blame for the results of the freewill he exercises. Hence, I shall continue to say, you have to blame man first. Do you ever balance the goodness of God against the severity of God?
    I understand perfectly well the words written in the Bible, and those words clearly show that its god holds the same biased and unjust opinions as the men of the time period who wrote the Bible. Men of that time period viewed women as property and thought it was okay to own slaves, consequently the Biblegod held that very same view ... how convenient.



    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    I know you do not believe in the existence of God, but allowing for the very small possibility God does exist, by what you say, you have to blame God. You are saying that God is to blame because he has made everything and God is the Creator of life. That life has resulted in your birth, therefore you have to blame God for all your actions. If you replace God by the term Evolution, then you are blaming Evolution for everything.

    Now you are saying you accept responsibility for your actions, and therefore you take the blame, so why do you think Moses was not to blame? Why do you shift the blame for everything onto God? Given that man is to blame, what then do you expect God to do? Should God do nothing, or should God deal with it? God can be seen to be dealing with the consequence of men's actions, however, God is handling it his way and not according to how you think he should.
    The reason I take responsibility for my own actions is because I DO NOT believe there is a god who created everything or knows the beginning from the end. IF one believes in a creator god as you do, then that creator god would be responsible and accountable for things that are in his power to change. Take for instance a person that is born with a genetic defect that makes them psychotic and they kill someone, if your god is real and he could have prevented the genetic defect in the first place then he is responsible for that persons actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Since we are told that God is the giver of life and can be the taker of life, then we have to get the situation like the one you cite into proper perspective. There is nothing wrong for giving God the praise for all the good that happens in our lives, even though those good things happen by time and chance. For the same reason, we should not blame God for the tragedies in our life. If you had watched the series on exposition of the Book of Job which I recommended to you, you would understand this when the speaker talked about our happiness changing. We wrongly attach what happens in our lives to God, instead of relating situations to our own state of happiness. When good things happen in our lives, we are happy. When bad things happen in our lives or the lives of others, we lose our happiness. We wrongly attach our state of happiness to God. We should not think that God should do everything according to what makes us happy. In times of good, we think God exists and in times of great tragedy, people will say; "there is no God". According to our state of happiness, God would be winking in and out of existence. This is not how it is, and that is why we have to get this into proper perspective.
    I'm trying to make sense of what you just said ... Let's see, if through my hard work I accomplish something, I should give god the praise, but if on the other hand I ask god to heal my sick child and nothing happens I should NOT blame god for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Once a person is in 'The Will of God', it does not matter what befalls them in their life, because when they are saved and are in the kingdom of God, that more than makes up for the suffering or brevity of this life. This offer of eternal life is the goodness of God you fail to appreciate. Of course, we shall go around in circles discussing this point, because you will say; what is the evidence for that? I will say; we have the evidence of the resurrection etc. etc. Even though I have the full assurance by all the evidence that we have on record, personal eternal life remains a matter of faith. That is what God requires us to have; faith in Him. Eternal life has to be a matter of faith until that faith becomes reality.

    All the best
    David
    I don't know how you can make the claim that there is evidence for the resurrection. Words written down in a book is not considered evidence.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  8. #18
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    I agree Richard that the Bible contains evidence of supernatural activity whilst also showing evidence of human mindset.

    The issue revolves around how God interacts with man. The Bible says that we are temples of the Holy Ghost, which means that God channels himself through us.

    If we are imperfect vessels or wilfully resistant vessels, then the message that comes through is going to be distorted.

    However, the distortions due to any one vessel will generally be ironed out when one looks at many separate vessels together.

    We know that the Bible was written by 40 authors (40 witnesses). Yes, on many points they might differ, but when all are combined, we perceive an overall pattern - the BibleWheel for example. Often witness is diffused amongst many - that's why it is only when we combine all 4 gospels that we find there were 40 miracles and 40 parables that witnessed to the people in Jesus' generation.

    Whatsmore, some vessels may have been more perfect than others. Prophets more than kings, Messiahs more than prophets.

    So the issue really does resolve around how God interacts with man - what the method of interaction is.


    Best advice for discerning the word of God would be -

    1. Ask the audience : What is the common pattern that appears over many authors
    2. Ask the expert : What is the message from the good vessels
    3. Ask yourself : Maybe that is why it is so important to be a clear vessel yourself rather than relying on other people to be.

    Anyway, it is amusing to ask Richard and Rose what they would do if it were proved that the God of the Bible was their Creator. If it were absolutely known to be true, would they decide to follow Him despite their moral objections.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hi Mystykal,

    As I explained on the other thread, the confusion comes from your quoting from a post I wrote back in August of 2009, when I was still a Christian.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Hi Rose:
    I see! Yes, that would make a difference... Thanks for the update!

    Namaste,

    Mystykal
    Mystykal

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post

    Anyway, it is amusing to ask Richard and Rose what they would do if it were proved that the God of the Bible was their Creator. If it were absolutely known to be true, would they decide to follow Him despite their moral objections.
    Hi Craig,

    Very good question.

    If the Biblegod could be proved with evidence to be the creator of life, in the same manner as the evidence of science convinced me to reject the false claims of the Bible, then of course I would believe in his existence. However, I still would have the same objections to all the injustice, bias and immorality decreed by the Biblegod.

    My question for you is this: you said that evidence has been found in the genetic code that proves intelligent design, but does not point to any religion. If that is the case, then why have you chosen to believe that the Biblegod is that intelligent designer, when many of the Biblical claims have been proven wrong?

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

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