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  1. #1
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    369

    This may be something or it may be nothing.
    I am not sure.

    http://www.newunderstandings.com/
    There is a minimal level of dignity that should be afforded to all.
    No-one is above anyone else.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdelmonico View Post
    This may be something or it may be nothing.
    I am not sure.

    http://www.newunderstandings.com/
    I didn't see anything that looked significant. The tables of multiples of the digits are trivial. It is interesting that it presents a variation on the quote supposedly from Tesla.

    “If You Only Knew The Power Of The 3 6 And 9 You Would Have The Power Of The Universe At Your Disposal”

    This shows how people just make up stuff. This quote contains entirely different words than the one you provided in your post in the other thread:

    "If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6, and 9, you would have the key to the universe."

    "Power" replaced "key" and the word "disposal" was added. I have yet to find any verifiable source of the quote.



    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
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  3. #3
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    tick tock (what are the odds)

    There are 26 sections in the 105 verses below, The First section has 5 verses, the rest have four verses

    [preview]

    The 3rd section (Judah and Jerusalem occur in 172 verses Together) 3 times in a Row
    ~~~
    10) 707 + 15507 ~ 16214th vs. Psa 136:17 To Him which smote great kings: for Hismercy endureth for ever:

    11) 16214 + 26917 ~ 43131 - 31102 ~ 12029th vs. Ezr 2:1 Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity, of those which had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and came again unto Yerushalayim and Yahudah, every one unto his city;

    12) 12029 + 6401 ~ 18430th vs. Isa 40:9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Yerushalayim, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Yahudah, Behold ELOHEYKIM!

    13) 18430 + 707 ~ 19137th vs. Jer 7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities ofYahudah and in the streets of Yerushalayim
    ~~~~



    The 13th section

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    50) 24178 + 18026 ~ 42204 - 31102 ~ 11102nd vs. 1Ch 26:24 And Shebuel the son of Gershom, the son of Mosheh, was ruler of the treasures.

    51) 11102 + 2469 ~ 13571st vs. Job 30:13 They mar my path, they set forward my calamity they have no helper.

    52) 13571 + 21622 ~ 35193 - 31102 ~ 4091st vs. Num 13:15 Of the tribe of Gad, Geuel the son of Machi.

    53) 4091 + 24178 ~ 28269th vs.Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    2+24 ~ 26



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 15th section



    58) 23098 + 8269 ~ 31367 - 31102 ~ 265th vs. Gen 10:30 And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.

    59) 265 + 21840 ~ 22105th vs. Hos 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Yisrael shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not My people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of The Living EL.

    60) 22105 + 25931 ~ 48036 - 31102 ~ 16934th vs. Pro 19:8 He that getteth Wisdom loveth his own soul: he that keepeth Understanding shall find good.

    61) 16934 + 23098 ~ 40032 - 31102 ~ 8930th vs. 1Ki 6:33 So also made he for the door of the Temple posts of olive tree, a fourth part of the wall.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The following two words from section 15 are found One time each in the Bible - Hebrew = definition

    AV - Mesha 1; 1 Mesha = "Freedom"

    AV - Sephar 1; 1 Sephar = "a Numbering"

    Here is Wisdom let him that hath Understanding count the number....Rev 13:18


    <><><><>



    1-105

    ~
    1) 23rd Book 18025th vs. Isaiah 19:20 And IT shall be for a sign and for a witness unto YAHUWAH of Hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto YAHUWAHbecause of the oppressors, and HE shall send them a Saviour, and a Great One, and HE shall deliver them. 3766 - 2004

    2) 37662004/31102 ~ 28584th vs. 1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Messiah? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Messiah?

    3) 192037662004/31102 ~ 11410th vs. 2Ch 10:14 And answered them after the advice of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add thereto: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.

    4) 18025192037662004/31102 ~ 10586th vs. 1Ch 8:10 And Yeuz, and Shachia, and Mirma. These were his sons, heads of the fathers.

    5) 2318025192037662004/31102 ~ 25408th vs. Luk 11:2 And HE said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name. Thykingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
    ~~
    6) 18025 + 28584 - 46609 - 31102 ~ 15507th vs. Psa 99:7 HE spake unto them in the cloudy pillar: they kept His testimonies, and the ordinance that HE gave them.

    7) 15507 + 11410 ~ 26917th vs. Joh 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

    8) 26917 + 10586 ~ 37503 - 31102 ~ 6401st vs. Jos 21:19 All the cities of the children of Aharon, the priests, were thirteen cities with their suburbs.

    9) 6401 + 25408 ~ 31809 - 31102 ~ 707th vs. Gen 26:14 For he had possession of flocks, and possession of herds, and great store of servants: and the philistines envied him.
    ~~~
    10) 707 + 15507 ~ 16214th vs. Psa 136:17 To Him which smote great kings: for Hismercy endureth for ever:

    11) 16214 + 26917 ~ 43131 - 31102 ~ 12029th vs. Ezr 2:1 Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity, of those which had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and came again unto Yerushalayim and Yahudah, every one unto his city;

    12) 12029 + 6401 ~ 18430th vs. Isa 40:9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Yerushalayim, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Yahudah, Behold ELOHEYKIM!

    13) 18430 + 707 ~ 19137th vs. Jer 7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities ofYahudah and in the streets of Yerushalayim
    ~~~~

  4. #4
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    OK thanks

    OK thanks


    found something you might like Richard.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f04QAZnSfuI



    By the way
    Rabbi Yitzchak Kaduri prophecied about the death of Ariel Sharon who has died Satuday 1/11.
    The stories about Kaduri remind me of Joseph of Arimithea.

    http://roadturn.com/rabbi-kaduri-ari...esus-yeshua-2/

    Meteor showers for the rest of January.
    Ison debris field and possible disturbance of asteroid belt debris.

    Comets with a period of 333 years, possible debris entering the atmosphere in 1347 as described by witnesses of the time 1014, 1347, 1680, 2013 (theories not proven).
    Last edited by rdelmonico; 01-12-2014 at 04:52 PM.
    There is a minimal level of dignity that should be afforded to all.
    No-one is above anyone else.
    No-one cares what you know unless they know that you care.
    Winning an argument and losing a friend is not (in my humble opinion) winning.

  5. #5
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    Richard, surely ye doth not deny the power of the first three multiples of three??? ...

    When we DOUBLE the infinite series of natural numbers (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 ...) and reduce them to their digital roots, we get an INFINITELY REPEATING CYCLE of 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5!!! Notice how 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 is the totality of the 9 single digits (1 through 9) MINUS our three friends 3,6,9!!! ...

    The digital root sum of each successive row on Pascal's triangle follows the INFINITELY REPEATING CYCLE of 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5!!! ...

    The sum of the DIAGONAL rows in Pascal's triangle (whether viewed from the left side of the triangle or the right side) produces the FIBONACCI SERIES to infinity. Why is this related to 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5??? Observe ...

    When we reduce the sequence of FIBONACCI NUMBERS to their digital roots, we get an INFINITELY REPEATING CYCLE of 24 digits! Now when we place those 24 digits around a circle, we see that the sum of EVERY number on the circle WITH the number that is exactly opposite to it on the circle is 9 (except for the number on the very TOP of the circle WITH the number on the very BOTTOM of the circle, which sums to 18 and reduces to 1 + 8 = 9)!!! This is the mathematical brilliance of God my friend ...

    When we place the digital roots of the Fibonacci series around a circle, we get TWO perfect hexagons when we draw lines connecting the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 in that order (with BOTH of the hexagons running in symmetrically opposite directions and BOTH following the numeric order of 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5)!!! In other words, starting from the top of the circle, go LEFT and draw lines connecting the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 (in that order). You get a perfect hexagon! Likewise, if you do the exact same thing but going RIGHT, you get a perfect hexagon again (with BOTH hexagons being formed in SYMMETRICALLY opposite directions)! Further, the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 only appear on the 24 digits around the circle in these two instances (where they each form perfect hexagons in symmetrically opposite directions)!!! Get this ...

    We saw how 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 is the totality of the 9 single digits MINUS 3,6,9. Drawing a hexagram on the circle of 24 digital roots connects EVERY INSTANCE of 3, 6, 9 on the circle (two 3's on the right side of the hexagram, two 6's on the left side and 9 in the top and the bottom)!!! Watch this ...

    The total sum of the 24 digital roots of the Fibonacci series = 117 and 117 divided by 124,875 = An INFINITELY REPEATING CYCLE of 936 (our three mysterious friends, remember?)!!! ...

    Btw, the number 124,875 happens to be a multiple of that terrifyingly flawless number 37. Now as you know, multiples of 37 have the strange property where when we sum the 3 digit sets (separated by commas) in any multiple of 37 above the number 999, it always adds up to another multiple of 37. Well, 124 + 875 happens to be 999!!! ...

    The first three multiples of three (3, 6, 9) also happens to start the series of each digit raised to their triplet (111, 222, 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, 888 and 999), a series which is intimately related to the number 37 as well. Observe ...

    111 (1 + 1 + 1 = 3 and 3 x 37 = 111)
    222 (2 + 2 + 2 = 6 and 6 x 37 = 222)
    333 (3 + 3 + 3 = 9 and 9 x 37 = 333)
    444 (4 + 4 + 4 = 12 and 12 x 37 = 444)
    555 (5 + 5 + 5 = 15 and 15 x 37 = 555)
    666 (6 + 6 + 6 = 18 and 18 x 37 = 666)
    777 (7 + 7 + 7 = 21 and 21 x 37 = 777)
    888 (8 + 8 + 8 = 24 and 24 x 37 = 888)
    999 (9 + 9 + 9 = 27 and 27 x 37 = 999)

    Immediately after this series, we see the phenomenon where every successive multiple of 37 always adds to another multiple of 37 (by adding the 3 digit sets that are separated by commas) ...

    Amazingly, when we add 111 + 222 + 333 + 444 + 555 + 666 + 777 + 888 + 999, we get the total value of the 27 characters of THE HEBREW ALPHABET!!! ...

    Even more amazing, a secular scientific paper published last year by Vladimir I. ShCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov demonstrates that the very nucleons in THE HUMAN GENOME are mathematically arranged according to each of the digits raised to their triplet (111, 222, 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, 888 and 999)!!! ...

    Btw, EACH of the single digits (1 through 9) can be generated from the digits in that flawless number 37! Observe ...

    1 = 7 - (3 + 3)
    2 = 3^2 - 7
    3 = 3
    4 = 7 - 3
    5 = (7 + 7) - 3^2
    6 = 3 + 3
    7 = 7
    8 = (7 + 7) - (3 + 3)
    9 = 3^2

    Mister JESUS is Mister GOD (I am Mister Gambini and I am NOT Mister God)!!!
    Last edited by Gambini; 01-14-2014 at 05:11 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    Richard, surely ye doth not deny the power of the first three multiples of three??? ...

    When we DOUBLE the infinite series of natural numbers (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 ...) and reduce them to their digital roots, we get an INFINITELY REPEATING CYCLE of 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5!!! Notice how 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 is the totality of the 9 single digits (1 through 9) MINUS our three friends 3,6,9!!! ...
    Hey there Mr. Gambini Sir!

    Glad you stopped by for a visit. Where have you been? We had some good conversations.

    But as usual, I am compelled to correct your mathemistakes. The series you wrote (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 ...) is not properly described as "DOUBLE the infinite series of natural numbers." That would just be series of even numbers (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, ...). What you wrote was the series of powers of 2.

    And I don't understand why you are so excited about a simple mathematical truth that follows by necessity. It's very easy to prove that any such sequence of powers will produce cycles of repeating digits. And it is easy to know which ones will be excluded when you take digital roots. Case in point: it is self evident that no power of two can be a multiple of three, so no digital roots of powers of two could be a multiple of three. This is a rather trivial mathematical theorem that automatically excludes the numbers 3, 6, and 9 from that sequence. There is nothing "amazing" about it at all.

    And more to the point: Why would you think that your results had any meaning? You created an arbitrary sequence and found it was missing three digits. So what? Why would anyone think that to be significant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    The digital root sum of each successive row on Pascal's triangle follows the INFINITELY REPEATING CYCLE of 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5!!! ...
    That's another trivial result that follows from the fact that the rows of Pascal's triangle all sum to successive powers of two. And this is because the rows are simply the binary coefficients generated by expanding powers of sums like (x + y)n. Putting x = y = 1 yields the powers of two: 2n.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    The sum of the DIAGONAL rows in Pascal's triangle (whether viewed from the left side of the triangle or the right side) produces the FIBONACCI SERIES to infinity. Why is this related to 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5??? Observe ...
    Yes, that's very cool, but it also is common knowledge, and more to the point: So what? What does it have to do with the price of a Red Heifer in Jerusalem? Why do these basic mathematical facts seem significant to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    When we reduce the sequence of FIBONACCI NUMBERS to their digital roots, we get an INFINITELY REPEATING CYCLE of 24 digits! Now when we place those 24 digits around a circle, we see that the sum of EVERY number on the circle WITH the number that is exactly opposite to it on the circle is 9 (except for the number on the very TOP of the circle WITH the number on the very BOTTOM of the circle, which sums to 18 and reduces to 1 + 8 = 9)!!! This is the mathematical brilliance of God my friend ...
    Ah ... finally, we come to your fundamental confusion. These results have absolutely nothing to do with any "god". They are nothing but the product pure logic. No "god" had any choice of any kind in this matter - mathematics exists by necessity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    When we place the digital roots of the Fibonacci series around a circle, we get TWO perfect hexagons when we draw lines connecting the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 in that order (with BOTH of the hexagons running in symmetrically opposite directions and BOTH following the numeric order of 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5)!!! In other words, starting from the top of the circle, go LEFT and draw lines connecting the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 (in that order). You get a perfect hexagon! Likewise, if you do the exact same thing but going RIGHT, you get a perfect hexagon again (with BOTH hexagons being formed in SYMMETRICALLY opposite directions)! Further, the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 only appear on the 24 digits around the circle in these two instances (where they each form perfect hexagons in symmetrically opposite directions)!!! Get this ...
    That sounds like some pretty cool mathematical geometry. Do you have a picture of it?

    And could you explain why you think it has any meaning, other than being a beautiful visual representation of mathematical necessity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    We saw how 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 is the totality of the 9 single digits MINUS 3,6,9. Drawing a hexagram on the circle of 24 digital roots connects EVERY INSTANCE of 3, 6, 9 on the circle (two 3's on the right side of the hexagram, two 6's on the left side and 9 in the top and the bottom)!!! Watch this ...

    The total sum of the 24 digital roots of the Fibonacci series = 117 and 117 divided by 124,875 = An INFINITELY REPEATING CYCLE of 936 (our three mysterious friends, remember?)!!! ...

    Btw, the number 124,875 happens to be a multiple of that terrifyingly flawless number 37. Now as you know, multiples of 37 have the strange property where when we sum the 3 digit sets (separated by commas) in any multiple of 37 above the number 999, it always adds up to another multiple of 37. Well, 124 + 875 happens to be 999!!! ...

    The first three multiples of three (3, 6, 9) also happens to start the series of each digit raised to their triplet (111, 222, 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, 888 and 999), a series which is intimately related to the number 37 as well. Observe ...

    111 (1 + 1 + 1 = 3 and 3 x 37 = 111)
    222 (2 + 2 + 2 = 6 and 6 x 37 = 222)
    333 (3 + 3 + 3 = 9 and 9 x 37 = 333)
    444 (4 + 4 + 4 = 12 and 12 x 37 = 444)
    555 (5 + 5 + 5 = 15 and 15 x 37 = 555)
    666 (6 + 6 + 6 = 18 and 18 x 37 = 666)
    777 (7 + 7 + 7 = 21 and 21 x 37 = 777)
    888 (8 + 8 + 8 = 24 and 24 x 37 = 888)
    999 (9 + 9 + 9 = 27 and 27 x 37 = 999)

    Immediately after this series, we see the phenomenon where every successive multiple of 37 always adds to another multiple of 37 (by adding the 3 digit sets that are separated by commas) ...

    Amazingly, when we add 111 + 222 + 333 + 444 + 555 + 666 + 777 + 888 + 999, we get the total value of the 27 characters of THE HEBREW ALPHABET!!! ...
    Your constant repetition of the word "amazing" indicates that you don't understand the nature of mathematics. There is nothing "amazing" about elementary mathematical facts that follow by necessity. I've explained this many times to you but you have never shown any understanding. The only way that the results gain any "wow factor" is if they appear in a way that suggests a deliberate design by an intelligent agent. This is NOT what is implied by mathematical necessity, because no agent had any choice is that regard. This is why the holographs appear significant to me. They are based on number patterns that appear to be inexplicable. I can explain each and every one of the results that you have posted in your long post except one, the coincidence that 111 x T(9) = 4995. But that's a single coincidence, so there is no reason to conclude that it is "amazing". It's just a fact. To be "amazing" you would have to give some reason why some other value derived through some other set of arbitrary number associations wouldn't be just as "amazing". This is the fundamental flaw in all the results you have posted on this website. You rarely, if ever, give good reasons why anyone should think they are significant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    Even more amazing, a secular scientific paper published last year by Vladimir I. ShCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov demonstrates that the very nucleons in THE HUMAN GENOME are mathematically arranged according to each of the digits raised to their triplet (111, 222, 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, 888 and 999)!!! ...
    The jury is still out on those papers. It will be interesting to see if they get any attention in the scientific community.

    But I note, yet again, that you appear to blindly accept any claim that suits your fancy even as you reject solid scientific facts if they prove you wrong. That indicates you are subject to a profound cognitive bias that makes all your judgments suspect. Just sayin ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    Btw, EACH of the single digits (1 through 9) can be generated from the digits in that flawless number 37! Observe ...

    1 = 7 - (3 + 3)
    2 = 3^2 - 7
    3 = 3
    4 = 7 - 3
    5 = (7 + 7) - 3^2
    6 = 3 + 3
    7 = 7
    8 = (7 + 7) - (3 + 3)
    9 = 3^2
    So what?I could do the same thing using four fours! It's called the Game of Four Fours. It means nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    Mister JESUS is Mister GOD (I am Mister Gambini and I am NOT Mister God)!!!
    It seems to me that you have made yourself a "fool for Christ" in a way he did not intend. You play endlessly with numbers without any understanding the most basic facts relating to them.

    But I'm glad you stopped by. I always find your excitement endearing and I enjoy explaining all the things you find so inexplicable.

    Shine on, my friend!



    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    When we place the digital roots of the Fibonacci series around a circle, we get TWO perfect hexagons when we draw lines connecting the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 in that order (with BOTH of the hexagons running in symmetrically opposite directions and BOTH following the numeric order of 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5)!!! In other words, starting from the top of the circle, go LEFT and draw lines connecting the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 (in that order). You get a perfect hexagon! Likewise, if you do the exact same thing but going RIGHT, you get a perfect hexagon again (with BOTH hexagons being formed in SYMMETRICALLY opposite directions)! Further, the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5 only appear on the 24 digits around the circle in these two instances (where they each form perfect hexagons in symmetrically opposite directions)!!! Get this ...
    This observation reminded me of my research on repdigits which followed from the unified alphanumeric structure of Genesis 1:1-5 and John 1:1-5 which I called the Creation Holograph. The property you describe is a well-understood property of cyclic numbers that are derived from division by integers. For example, here is the circle of digits derived from dividing unity by seven. Note that diagonally opposed numbers all sum to seven:



    1
    x 142857 = 142857
    3 x 142857 = 428571
    2 x 142857 = 285714
    6 x 142857 = 857142
    4 x 142857 = 571428
    5 x 142857 = 714285



    Sums of Diagonals


    1 + 6 = 7 1 + 8 = 9
    3 + 4 = 7 4 + 5 = 9
    2 + 2 = 7 2 + 7 = 9

    These results follow from mathematical necessity. They were not "designed" by any intelligence. But the Creation Holograph and the Bible Wheel do appear to have been designed by an intelligence (though I am convinced it was not the "intelligence" of the God described in the Bible) and so I was fascinated by the wheel of 22 spokes generated by the inverse of the number 23, which is the sum of the ordinal values of the first and last Hebrew letters, Aleph (1) and Tav (22) which "seal" the Bible Wheel from beginning to end:



    Note that the opposing numbers all sum to 23, just like the opposing numbers on the wheel generated by seven sum to seven. I explain all this in this article: Repdigits and the Holographic Generating Set.

    I spent some time examining the patterns of the numbers on this circle but never found anything that seemed significant.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  8. #8
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    "I don't understand why you are so excited about a simple mathematical truth that follows by necessity"

    Greetings Sir RAM

    I don't deny that there are mathematical principles that follow by necessity. But even in the examples that necessarily follow mathematically, that doesn't take away from my general point at all. If the necessities of mathematics THEMSELVES show signs of sentient order, then THAT points to the very default state of existence being sentient (since we agree that mathematical necessities exist by default). Mathematics reflects the mind of God. That's why mathematical necessities translate into geometric order ...

    It's very similar to the moral argument ... Both mathematical necessities AND objective moral values are grounded in the very nature of God. God didn't "create" mathematical necessities. They simply reflect his nature. Likewise, God didn't "create" objective moral values. They simply reflect his natural character. When we talk about mathematical necessities or objective moral values, we're dealing with mere reflections of the very default state of being (God).

    May you forever swim in an everlasting sea of SHALOMness

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambini View Post
    "I don't understand why you are so excited about a simple mathematical truth that follows by necessity"

    Greetings Sir RAM

    I don't deny that there are mathematical principles that follow by necessity. But even in the examples that necessarily follow mathematically, that doesn't take away from my general point at all. If the necessities of mathematics THEMSELVES show signs of sentient order, then THAT points to the very default state of existence being sentient (since we agree that mathematical necessities exist by default). Mathematics reflects the mind of God. That's why mathematical necessities translate into geometric order ...

    It's very similar to the moral argument ... Both mathematical necessities AND objective moral values are grounded in the very nature of God. God didn't "create" mathematical necessities. They simply reflect his nature. Likewise, God didn't "create" objective moral values. They simply reflect his natural character. When we talk about mathematical necessities or objective moral values, we're dealing with mere reflections of the very default state of being (God).

    May you forever swim in an everlasting sea of SHALOMness
    Sir Shalombini! Tis a pleasure to be chatting again.

    I don't see how impersonal abstract laws of logic could really "point to the very default state of existence being sentient" but neither does that idea feel foreign to me, since I have always been inclined towards Idealism. But even if true, I don't see how it could apply to the God of the Bible, since the description he gives of himself in the Bible is anything but logical or even rational.

    What does it mean to say that mathematics is "grounded in the very nature of God"? What is "God"? How does God "ground" anything? Why is that concept needed? What does it explain? And most importantly, how does it differ from any other abstract unknowable speculative metaphysical entity? Why do I need a "God" for logic to "reflect"? Why not just take logic as God? God has no freedom anyway, since he can't actually do anything since he is trapped in eternity where there is no time, and all actions require time. And if he is omniscient, he could never make a choice because he always knew what he would do! What then determined what he would do? He had no more choice than the laws of logic! How does he differ from an abstract principle?

    As for the moral argument - it is utterly vacuous and absolutely absurd. It was totally debunked by Euthyphro, and I did it myself again for good measure. Here is my main article explaining the errors in it: Why Most Animals are not Philosophers: Fatal Flaws in Dr. Craig's Moral Argument for God. And here is my own theory of morality that is entirely naturalistic (God has nothing to do with it): The Logic of Love: A Natural Theory of Morality. Your comments would be most welcome.

    May an immanent sea of transcendent tranquility bubbling up from your own self remind you of what you really are. A leaf on the branch of the everliving Tree of Reality.

    It's bed time. I'm rambling. Good night.

    Talk more soon.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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