Google Ads

Google Ads

Bible Wheel Book

Google Ads

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 25 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 246
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by messianicdruid View Post
    Originally Posted by Rose
    Also, the words forever and ever are reinforced by adding the words day and night, which supports the sense of being eternal.


    Take care,
    Rose
    If you insist on the english words being inspired you will not be aware of the mistranslations. The idea of unending time is foreign to the scriptures.

    Consider:

    http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.n...nion-and-olam/
    Your answer is no answer at all. I said nothing about inspired words. I said that the idea of eternity is supported by the continuance of day and night going on forever. Besides that you have no basis for saying that the concept of unending time is foreign to the Scripture. God is spoken of in the Bible as being eternal, which means having neither beginning nor ending.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    East of West!
    Posts
    411

    Once again....

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Good morning Mystykal,

    You say that I am "all wrong about how prayer works" but you didn't say how prayer works so I have no way to know what you think you are talking about.

    The fact remains that no one can actually TRUST God for anything in this life. Not one thing. God is absolutely untrustworthy. You say I am wrong but you don't explain why. How am I supposed to correct my error if you can't even explain what it is?

    As for "Master martial artists" who violate the laws of physics - you have not provided any evidence of that. And worse, you say that my demand for evidence is "silly". Why is it silly to ask for evidence? Do you want me to just believe whatever anyone says? If anything would be silly, that's it. The idea that martial artists have supernatural powers looks just as superstitious as all the other silly stuff people claim, folks who do TM claim to be able to levitate. As far as I can tell, the "FAITH" you are promoting is indistinguishable from gullibility.

    Richard
    Hi Richard:

    I really do not understand you! I did NOT say asking for evidence is silly - I said asking for evidence in YOUR way is silly. There is a difference! You need to stop taking my words and doing to me what you accuse me of doing to you! From the top...

    If GOD exists then the rules must come from GOD! The way to know GOD must be defined in a model which is GOD-Spirit produced... The fact that GOD appears to be absent or that He/it does not answer YOUR prayers or the vast majority of prayers is not an automatic conclusive "evidence" the GOD does not exist! There would be other layers to the model as to how GOD answers prayers! The rules of the game. Like in martial arts... There are rules and techniques which must be perfected BEFORE the given result is seen. So it is NOT that prayer is not answered that is the problem... It is that the prayer is wrong or the person doing the praying is not aligned to the model in any significant way! "The prayer of a righteous man availeth much." Not any Christian can "call down fire from heaven! The prayer of only certain types of people actually work!
    I said that before.... and you keep saying that I have not answered the question!

    So let's start here at the beginning. The thing you are ignoring is the Spirit of GOD is GOD according to the model presented in most theologies. So that the Spirit is STILL present to those who ask for it according to the FAITH Model - which is laid out in lots of esoteric Mss. The fact that few people, even martial artists, can claim that kind of connection which gets results so they fake it is NOT the issue. The issue is does it exist? And from personal knowledge and experience working with an authentic Master in martial arts my answer is yes!

    ==========
    Now let me regress and answer some of your earlier comments...

    You responded with:


    I am glad that you agree that my logic is valid. Now the only dispute is about the facts. I assert that God is absolutely untrustworthy. You disagree. Great! All you need to do now is tell me ONE REAL THING that everyone could actually trust God for. Sick children? Nope. Salvation from rapists? Nope. Anything? Nope. If God were actually TRUSTWORTHY about anything in reality, there would be no debate about his existence.

    As for the "prayer studies" that you linked - they don't prove anything about any god or even spirituality. On the contrary, they only show that certain brain states are associated with certain brain activities.

    You disagree with the "milk jug" argument (it's not a model). Why? Is it because you disagree with the Christians who say that God answers with a yes, no, or wait?


    Originally Posted by Mystykal
    So, your insistence that you do not "write GOD off" is negated by your statements which say you know of "no evidence" for a god" - it's like you want it both ways! I do not allow that! Either you accept the GOD model as real or you do not! To leave yourself open to an idea while bashing the idea on every other level is well crazy! That is what you appear to be doing.



    You have been repeating this misunderstanding for a long time and I have explained it many times. I do not believe in any god because I have no evidence - no reason to pick out one from the many suggested. But neither do I have evidence that conclusively proves there is no god of any kind. My integrity demands that I MUST REMAIN AGNOSTIC about things I do not know. Therefore, I am an agnostic atheist. This is really simple. I don't understand why you remain so confused about it. What choice do I have? Do you want me to LIE and say I believe in a GOD, or do you want me to LIE and say that I know with certainty there is no God? Why do you want me to lie???


    Originally Posted by Mystykal
    The arguments for the virgin birth and all the Isaiah controversy is understood by me... I just think that the verse of "he shall crush its head" - the vishnu/Christ savior of the world spoken of in Genesis is a strong illusion to a saviour child being born. Along with all the other references in the OT to the point that Jews STILL believe in a coming saviour - is strong evidence for the Christ of the NT being IHVH in human form.



    You appear to be dodging my point. You rejected the NT doctrine of hell on the pretext that it is not found in the OT, but now you make up excuses for believing other NT doctrines that are not found in the OT. That appears to be logically inconsistent to me. It makes it impossible for me to follow your logic.


    Originally Posted by Mystykal
    As to the Bible being INSPIRED in Greek or any particular language... well I do not accept word inspiration so the language is not the issue and no I am not predjudiced against Greek as a language I am aware of the problems with Greek re-writing the OT notions of the concepts such as the Sabbath the eternal soul/punishment in hell and the notions of Angels/Demons which was developed long after the idea was accepted by the Jews. So my point is to say that Christianity is composed of a Greek mindset is erroneous at best. So the later Christianizaton of Jews and Greeks and then Romans creates a false "religion" made up of social customs not Biblical truth found in the OT foundation of all Abrahamic relogions which is the current belief as to where the TRUE GOD Model resides.



    You have invented your own religion. Why do you take the OT as superior to the NT? That makes no sense since the NT contains the revelation of Christ and the Gospel and many concepts that are almost, if not entirely, missing from the OT. Again, you position seems logically inconsistent. I simply cannot follow your logic.


    Originally Posted by Mystykal
    http://therefinersfire.org/khabouris_codex.htm
    "All Aramaic manuscripts have a bookmark that dates them and includes the name of the scribe, where it was done, and the year it was done. Khabouris bookmark says: "Dated to the great persecution" which refers to the first widespread persecution under Nero, in 164 CE. This is not only my opinion; it's the opinion of the experts who are the custodians of the manuscript.

    I have spent 15 years showing people proof that the Greek NT is full of readings that are mistranslations from Aramaic originals - i.e., Leper vs. jar maker, the missing generation in Matthew 1 in
    all Greek copies that is restored by translating correctly one Aramaic word, and so on...."

    So your so called iron clad idea that the original Christians wrote in Greek is not fact! I am not sure either which one came FIRST Aramaic or Greek NT but I am quite sure that the Word of GOD is NOT WORD Inspired!. So the format does not matter as much as the ideas presented. And the ideas presented in the Greek do NOT match the earlier manuscripts! Making the Greek notions non-Christian! NOW I hope that is plain enough for you!



    The idea that most of the NT was written in Greek is based on many facts, such as the fact that it often quotes the Greek LXX letter for letter, even when the LXX differs from the Hebrew.

    And the fact that most if not all the earliest fragments are Greek.

    We don't know when that manuscript was originally composed and we don't know if was originally translated from Greek or not. You have not presented any evidence for your assertions at all.

    And the Peshitta has only 22 books. Does this mean that you reject 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, Jude and Revelation? If so, why not reject it all? Why would you trust any book so obviously untrustworthy? Believers can't agree even about what books it is supposed to contain.

    -----------

    "I am glad that you agree that my logic is valid. Now the only dispute is about the facts. I assert that God is absolutely untrustworthy. You disagree. Great! All you need to do now is tell me ONE REAL THING that everyone could actually trust God for.
    And then you go on this rant about GOD doesn't answer ANY/ALL prayers. Ok You want proof that GOD answers prayers.... YOU ACT like there is none! Name:  Answers to Prayer Book R.M..jpg
Views: 34
Size:  19.2 KB Before you write off this particular "Christian" Authored book let me tell you that I knew this person in life and the stories are true. Now since you did not see these stories you will no doubt just ignore the facts of the stories... and write the whole thing off as personal delusion or somthing along those lines. The problem with that is that I am the living proof that prayers do get answered. Just understand that cars with no gas do not run for miles... but mine did! Empty floating plastic cans with no lid do not float without filling with water while being held by a person using it and trying to tip it over but is prevented from doing so until safely to shore. Men intent on killing some preacher on stage do not all see men in camo with weapons and get scared and leave and years later confront that person and ask who where those soliders protecting you that day?... But no soldiers where ever hired by my uncle to protect him! But to answer his prayer GOD performed some kind of illusion which made armed men see things which scared them off the stage and sent them to inquire as to the nature of the incident years later.

    All these things did happen and they cannot be swept away as you try to do! So be careful how you call everythig a "cognitive bias" or whatever... The truth is out there! "The prayer of a righteous man availeth much."


    You disagree with the "milk jug" argument (it's not a model). Why?
    I think that you are trying to act like since GOD in your view does not exist then neither does prayer exist or get answers. The milk jug analogy is NOT how prayer works! Praying to "Baal" would be anagalus to praying to a milk jug. The analogy only applies to the fake god models not the REAL ONE GOD.



    Namaste,




    Mystykal
    Last edited by Mystykal; 12-17-2013 at 06:03 AM.
    Mystykal

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Whatever form of measuring device you use, you must make sure it measures accurately.
    Does a moral code that requires "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" seem unjust to you? Does being held accountable for our actions seem unjust to you?

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    God is spoken of in the Bible as being eternal, which means having neither beginning nor ending.

    Take care,
    Rose
    God is not limited by time. Making comparisons between things that are limited by time and things that are not is an error.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    You say that the problem is my "yardstick".
    No, I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by messianicdruid View Post
    It is impossible to measure the distance to the moon with a yardstick. Excessive rationalism will argue about that because if the right conditions could be obtained, or the right extrapolations could be made we could make a fair estimate, etc. Any question can be answered correctly given enough resources.
    By "excessive rationalism" I mean using a tool that is inadequate for the task, as in trying to measure the distance to the moon with a thirty-six inch piece of wood. I do not have to know the distance to the moon to appreciate it and thus to appreciate it's maker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    If by supernatural we mean only that which is beyond our current understanding, then the word really doesn't have much significance.
    But if we mean 'things that cannot be measured with a yardstick' {things outside the natural realm} then we must use another method of {tool for} gaining the information we seek.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by messianicdruid View Post
    Does a moral code that requires "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" seem unjust to you? Does being held accountable for our actions seem unjust to you?
    Yes, the immoral code of an "eye for an eye" is barbaric and unjust! When carried out literally it leads to immoral acts such as: if you rape my wife I get to rape yours, or if you kill my child I will kill yours ... since women and children were considered property.

    The idea of being held accountable for ones actions is far different than declaring "an eye for an eye". It is fair and just to require accountability for ones actions, carried out in a moral manner. Unlike the decrees of the Biblegod, which require people to be cast into the lake of fire for the crime of unbelief!
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by messianicdruid View Post
    God is not limited by time. Making comparisons between things that are limited by time and things that are not is an error.
    It's meaningless to talk about things that are not limited by time. The Bible was written by men who operated in a framework of time and created a god who interacted with humans in a framework of time. It is impossible to conceive of the idea of things not being limited by time, because things always exist time. If god interacts with any thing he is existing in time. Timelessness is a meaningless, made-up state for god to exist in, to justify his so-called eternal nature.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Yes, the immoral code of an "eye for an eye" is barbaric and unjust! When carried out literally it leads to immoral acts such as: if you rape my wife I get to rape yours, or if you kill my child I will kill yours ... since women and children were considered property.
    So you reserve unto yourself the ability or authority to decide what is right or wrong? For yourself? For everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    When carried out literally it leads to...
    So why carry it out literally? Carry it out as it was meant to be carried out, not by multiplying ungodliness {going beyond that which is written}. If one commits rape his life is forfeit because he cannot restore that which he has taken. It gives no justification for additional rape. If one commits murder {killing a child - an innocent} then one's life is forfeit. It gives no justification for additional murder. This would be the fleshly {natural} mind exhibiting it's lack of understanding of the mind of God.

    An "eye for an eye" is simply teaching accountability. If you knew that causing harm to your neighbor would harm yourself {we are all one as the New Agers say} you would guard his life {and all that is his - eyes, teeth, skin, relations, possessions, liberties, hopes, dreams} as your own. This is the basis of community which is the kingdom {rulership} of God. In this government {it is a government NOT a religion} there is only one rulemaker {g-o-d}.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    The idea of being held accountable for ones actions is far different than declaring "an eye for an eye". Unlike the decrees of the Biblegod, which require people to be cast into the lake of fire for the crime of unbelief!
    Being cast into a "lake of fire" which, itself, may or may not be "without end" does not mean that ones stay there is unending. It depends, of course, on how obstinate one is. Sane people change their minds, insane people are not safe to allow to run loose causing mayhem. Unbelief can easily be repaired with belief. It only depends on what is required to change one's mind. I'm convinced that those who insist on spending some time there will become believers pretty promptly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    It is fair and just to require accountability for ones actions, carried out in a moral manner.
    And how would you describe that in your own little universe? How would you deal with a rapist or a murderer? Would you lock them up in a prison for a number of years and force the innocent to pay for their incarceration or would you require of them something else to pay for their sin {crime}?
    Last edited by messianicdruid; 12-17-2013 at 08:25 PM.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    It's meaningless to talk about things that are not limited by time.
    It is meaningless to you because you are not aware of or refuse to admit that there is any such thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    It is impossible to conceive of the idea of things not being limited by time, because things always exist time.
    It is impossible for you since the only things you will admit to or are aware of are limited by time. That does not make it so for all of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    If god interacts with any thing he is existing in time. Timelessness is a meaningless, made-up state for god to exist in, to justify his so-called eternal nature.
    It is strange that you can conceive of natural things that are timeless, yet you cannot {or will not} conceive of supernatural things that are not subject to {constrained by} time.
    Last edited by messianicdruid; 12-17-2013 at 08:07 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by messianicdruid View Post
    So you reserve unto yourself the ability or authority to decide what is right or wrong? For yourself? For everyone?
    Why not? Since my morality is infinitely better than those of the primitive men who created the Biblegod. Unlike the authors of the Bible, I believe that all lives have equal value, whether they be women, children, homosexuals or unbelievers.

    Quote Originally Posted by messianicdruid View Post
    So why carry it out literally? Carry it out as it was meant to be carried out, not by multiplying ungodliness {going beyond that which is written}. If one commits rape his life is forfeit because he cannot restore that which he has taken. It gives no justification for additional rape. If one commits murder {killing a child - an innocent} then one's life is forfeit. It gives no justification for additional murder. This would be the fleshly {natural} mind exhibiting it's lack of understanding of the mind of God.
    I can see that your sense of justice falls into the same category as the primitive men who wrote the Bible and created its god, commanding that a life be taken for something as trivial as picking up sticks on the Sabbath.



    Quote Originally Posted by messianicdruid View Post
    Being cast into a "lake of fire" which, itself, may or may not be "without end" does not mean that ones stay there is unending. It depends, of course, on how obstinate one is. Sane people change their minds, insane people are not safe to allow to run loose causing mayhem. Unbelief can easily be repaired with belief. It only depends on what is required to change one's mind. I'm convinced that those who insist on spending some time there will become believers pretty promptly.

    Oh, so it's okay to cast someone into the Lake of Fire to be tortured for the crime of unbelief as long as it's not "unending". What has your religion done to your conscience? Where is your compassion?



    Quote Originally Posted by messianicdruid View Post
    And how would you describe that in your own little universe? How would you deal with a rapist or a murderer? Would you lock them up in a prison for a number of years and force the innocent to pay for their incarceration or would you require of them something else to pay for their sin {crime}?
    People who commit crimes are incarcerated for whatever amount of time our judicial system deems appropriate according to our laws based on justice. Unlike the unjust, immoral values of the Biblegod, which are based on whether or not one obeys his commands for praise and worship.

    No matter if a criminal is locked up or put to death, the innocent always pay for the crimes of the guilty ... that cannot be avoided. All of society is affected when its any of its citizens harm others, but killing criminals does not solve the problem.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •