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  1. #1

    The Big Bang!! A Big JOKE!! and its not science...

    Here is the dictionary definition of science...

    1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
    2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.


    Alright, so to all you evolutionists out there, I have some questions for you, since I am always under attack for my beliefs, its time for you guys to defend yours...if you dare!

    This is straight out of a highschool textbook. Classic!
    "Somewhere between 18 and 20 billion years ago, all of the matter in the universe was compressed into a tiny space no larger than the period (dot) at the end of the this sentence. This dot spun faster and faster until it exploded, thus creating the Universe and everything in it."

    This is by far the DUMBEST thing I have ever read in my life. I laughed at it back then, and I laugh even still today. You actually believe this? That our infinite universe and all matter started as a microscopic dot??? LOLOLOLOL!!!!

    So here is my first beef. This theory, the big bang, which is the root of your whole belief system, is not "scientific" even by the very definition of Science. It is not testable. It is not observable. Nor does it follow (any of) the general rules of science. (ie: 2nd law of Thermodynamics) So why do you guys call it science???

    Where did the dot come from?
    What caused it to start spinning?
    What caused it to spin faster and faster?
    What caused it to explode?
    Where did the energy come from?
    What force was holding all of that matter and energy inside that teeny, weeny, widdle dot???
    Last edited by malachigreenidge; 11-14-2013 at 09:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by malachigreenidge View Post
    Here is the dictionary definition of science...

    1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
    2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.


    Alright, so to all you evolutionists out there, I have some questions for you, since I am always under attack for my beliefs, its time for you guys to defend yours...if you dare!

    This is straight out of a highschool textbook. Classic!
    "Somewhere between 18 and 20 billion years ago, all of the matter in the universe was compressed into a tiny space no larger than the period (dot) at the end of the this sentence. This dot spun faster and faster until it exploded, thus creating the Universe and everything in it."

    This is by far the DUMBEST thing I have ever read in my life. I laughed at it back then, and I laugh even still today. You actually believe this? That our infinite universe and all matter started as a microscopic dot??? LOLOLOLOL!!!!

    So here is my first beef. This theory, the big bang, which is the root of your whole belief system, is not "scientific" even by the very definition of Science. It is not testable. It is not observable. Nor does it follow (any of) the general rules of science. (ie: 2nd law of Thermodynamics) So why do you guys call it science???

    Where did the dot come from?
    What caused it to start spinning?
    What caused it to spin faster and faster?
    What caused it to explode?
    Where did the energy come from?
    What force was holding all of that matter and energy inside that teeny, weeny, widdle dot???
    Hey there Malachi,

    Your post is a perfect example of how religion corrupts the minds and morals of believers since you have chosen to believe and propagate ludicrous lies. Your assertion that the quote (highlighted red) came from a "highschool textbook" is total bullshit. It came from an idiotic page called The Big Bang and the Bible. This was easy to discover. I started by searching for all occurrences of the ludicrous assertion that "This dot spun faster and faster until it exploded". I have degrees in Mathematics and Physics and I've never once seen a textbook. let alone a real scientist, say anything like that. It is moronic. Stupid beyond words. The product of total ignorance. So there is good reason to think it came from a Bible believer. And that suspicion was quickly proven true. Google returns 881 results when I search for that exact phrase (in quotes). Most of the hits were just quotes from the The Big Bang and the Bible page and not one of them that I saw gave any source other than that page. So I began to suspect that the quote originated on that page. So I modified my Google search to the time period from 2001 - 2005, and TADA! There was one and only one hit - that stinking bullshit Bible page! That is the source of your freaking LIES. But you don't care, do you? You think that you are a lover of Christ? You would do well to understand that from a Christian perspective, you piss on Christ when you piss on truth.

    Enjoy your "LOLOLOLOL" ....
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Hey there Malachi,

    Your post is a perfect example of how religion corrupts the minds and morals of believers since you have chosen to believe and propagate ludicrous lies. Your assertion that the quote (highlighted red) came from a "highschool textbook" is total bullshit. It came from an idiotic page called The Big Bang and the Bible. This was easy to discover. I started by searching for all occurrences of the ludicrous assertion that "This dot spun faster and faster until it exploded". I have degrees in Mathematics and Physics and I've never once seen a textbook. let alone a real scientist, say anything like that. It is moronic. Stupid beyond words. The product of total ignorance. So there is good reason to think it came from a Bible believer. And that suspicion was quickly proven true. Google returns 881 results when I search for that exact phrase (in quotes). Most of the hits were just quotes from the The Big Bang and the Bible page and not one of them that I saw gave any source other than that page. So I began to suspect that the quote originated on that page. So I modified my Google search to the time period from 2001 - 2005, and TADA! There was one and only one hit - that stinking bullshit Bible page! That is the source of your freaking LIES. But you don't care, do you? You think that you are a lover of Christ? You would do well to understand that from a Christian perspective, you piss on Christ when you piss on truth.

    Enjoy your "LOLOLOLOL" ....
    Oh Richard, is google your internet god??? Here is the textbook and the "exact" quote from page 61, order one if you don't believe me, or if google search is still failing you, just like your laughable theory...

    Here is also a post from an article titled "The Big Fizzle: Admissions from an Evolutionary Astrophysicist"(2007)written by astro-physicist Eric Lyons, referencing the exact same textbook!

    "No topic is more fundamental in the creation/evolution debate than the origin of the Universe. The theory advanced by evolutionists for several decades now, which supposedly best explains our existence from a purely naturalistic perspective, is known as the Big Bang. It has circulated via science textbooks all over the world. One of the leading publishers of science curriculum for many years has been Prentice Hall. In their 1992 General Science textbook, titled A Voyage of Discovery, they included the following section on “The Birth and Death of the Universe:”

    (Now Eric goes on to quote from the textbook himself)

    [B]"How was the universe born and how will it end? Most astronomers believe that about 18 to 20 billion years ago all the matter in the universe was concentrated into one very dense, very hot region that may have been much smaller than a period on this page. For some unknown reason, this region exploded. This explosion is called the big bang. One result of the big bang was the formation of galaxies, all racing away from one another. This explains why the universe is still expanding[/b](Hurd, et al., p. 61, emp. in orig.)."

    Here is the reference, google it if you dare! There's a nice picture of it on Abe Books, where you can order your very own copy! Just click on this link: http://www.abebooks.com/General-Scie...d/835197802/bd

    General Science-A Voyage Of Discovery
    Dean Hurd, Et al.
    Published by Prentice Hall, 1992
    ISBN 10: 0137179928 / ISBN 13: 9780137179923
    Used / Hardcover / Quantity Available: 1
    From Bookworksonline (Fairfield Glade, TN, U.S.A.)


    There you go, clearly from the textbook! Now that that is settled, can you please anwer my questions?

    Where did the dot come from?
    What caused it to start spinning?
    What caused it to spin faster and faster?
    What caused it to explode?
    Where did the energy come from?
    What force was holding all of that matter and energy inside that teeny, weeny, widdle dot???

    If on the other hand, you still neglect these notions that are clearly taught in this textbook, and find them false, (I am assuming you will, as their is no possible explanation for any of these questions, from evolution), then please answer my first question.

    So here is my first beef. This theory, the big bang, which is the root of your whole belief system, is not "scientific" even by the very definition of Science. It is not testable. It is not observable. Nor does it follow (any of) the general rules of science. (ie: 2nd law of Thermodynamics) So why do you guys call it science???

    Readers, it should be noted that Richard has not answered (or even attempted to) answer any of my direct rebuttal's to his posts, from posts #64 or #66, or #149. So I don't imagine he'll answer this one either. Any of you can pipe up though, please, lets see what you got!!

    ...and yes Richard, I am very much enjoying my LOLOLOLOLOL!!
    Last edited by malachigreenidge; 11-15-2013 at 07:28 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by malachigreenidge View Post
    Oh Richard, is google your internet god??? Here is the textbook and the "exact" quote from page 61, order one if you don't believe me, or if google search is still failing you, just like your laughable theory...

    Here is also a post from an article titled "The Big Fizzle: Admissions from an Evolutionary Astrophysicist"(2007)written by astro-physicist Eric Lyons, referencing the exact same textbook!

    "No topic is more fundamental in the creation/evolution debate than the origin of the Universe. The theory advanced by evolutionists for several decades now, which supposedly best explains our existence from a purely naturalistic perspective, is known as the Big Bang. It has circulated via science textbooks all over the world. One of the leading publishers of science curriculum for many years has been Prentice Hall. In their 1992 General Science textbook, titled A Voyage of Discovery, they included the following section on “The Birth and Death of the Universe:”

    (Now Eric goes on to quote from the textbook himself)

    [B]"How was the universe born and how will it end? Most astronomers believe that about 18 to 20 billion years ago all the matter in the universe was concentrated into one very dense, very hot region that may have been much smaller than a period on this page. For some unknown reason, this region exploded. This explosion is called the big bang. One result of the big bang was the formation of galaxies, all racing away from one another. This explains why the universe is still expanding[/b](Hurd, et al., p. 61, emp. in orig.)."

    Here is the reference, google it if you dare! There's a nice picture of it on Abe Books, where you can order your very own copy! Just click on this link: http://www.abebooks.com/General-Scie...d/835197802/bd

    General Science-A Voyage Of Discovery
    Dean Hurd, Et al.
    Published by Prentice Hall, 1992
    ISBN 10: 0137179928 / ISBN 13: 9780137179923
    Used / Hardcover / Quantity Available: 1
    From Bookworksonline (Fairfield Glade, TN, U.S.A.)


    There you go, clearly from the textbook! Now that that is settled, can you please anwer my questions?

    Where did the dot come from?
    What caused it to start spinning?
    What caused it to spin faster and faster?
    What caused it to explode?
    Where did the energy come from?
    What force was holding all of that matter and energy inside that teeny, weeny, widdle dot???
    Hey there Malachi,

    Are you totally insane, utterly idiotic, or are you just pretending to be both? The quote that you said was "exact" is not exact at all. It doesn't mention any "dot" that began "spinning."

    Quote #1: "Somewhere between 18 and 20 billion years ago, all of the matter in the universe was compressed into a tiny space no larger than the period (dot) at the end of the this sentence. This dot spun faster and faster until it exploded, thus creating the Universe and everything in it."

    Quote #2: Most astronomers believe that about 18 to 20 billion years ago all the matter in the universe was concentrated into one very dense, very hot region that may have been much smaller than a period on this page. For some unknown reason, this region exploded.

    You say that quote #1 is exactly the same as quote #2?

    Therefore, there is no need to answer you question about "spinning" because you have not shown that any scientists have ever said anything about a "spinning dot" in relation to the Big Bang.

    And worse - it is utterly moronic for you to think you could refute astrophysics by misquoting a few sentences of a poorly written and entirely inaccurate description in a high school textbook! You have to deal with what the scientists actually have said.

    I can't believe how much error and falsehood is contained in your post. You say that Eric Lyons is an astrophysicist? Where did you get that idea? Here is what he says about himself (you can find this by clicking on his name on the The Big Fizzle: Admissions from an Evolutionary Astrophysicist):
    Eric Lyons is a graduate of Freed-Hardeman University, where he earned a B.S. with a double major in Bible and history, and an M.Min. Eric, his wife Jana, and their three children (Bo, Micah, and Shelby) live and worship in Wetumpka, Alabama, where Eric works with the youth of the Wetumpka church of Christ. Eric currently serves as a member of the Bible Department at Apologetics Press, where he has worked for the past 12 years.

    Eric has authored or co-authored a number of books, including The Anvil Rings: Answers to Alleged Bible Discrepancies (Volumes 1 & 2), Behold! The Lamb of God, Truth Be Told, and Wonders of God's Creation. In addition, he writes weekly for the Apologetics Press Web site, is editor of the Explorer Series, and assistant editor of Discovery, the monthly magazine on Scripture and science for children published by Apologetics Press. Eric speaks frequently at youth rallies, Gospel meetings, and seminars around the country, and specializes in presenting seminars on the following topics:
    He is a typical ignorant, corrupt, lying, Christian apologist who doesn't give a shit about the truth any more than you do! The crap you have written in this one thread is all the proof anyone needs to know that you despise and mock the truth. You are a perfect example of how your religion tends to corrupt the minds and morals of believers. It is simply INSANE to think you could refute the General Theory of Relativity by misquoting a few sentences from a poorly written highschool textbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by malachigreenidge View Post
    If on the other hand, you still neglect these notions that are clearly taught in this textbook, and find them false, (I am assuming you will, as their is no possible explanation for any of these questions, from evolution), then please answer my first question.

    So here is my first beef. This theory, the big bang, which is the root of your whole belief system, is not "scientific" even by the very definition of Science. It is not testable. It is not observable. Nor does it follow (any of) the general rules of science. (ie: 2nd law of Thermodynamics) So why do you guys call it science???

    Readers, it should be noted that Richard has not answered (or even attempted to) answer any of my direct rebuttal's to his posts, from posts #64 or #66, or #149. So I don't imagine he'll answer this one either. Any of you can pipe up though, please, lets see what you got!!

    ...and yes Richard, I am very much enjoying my LOLOLOLOLOL!!
    They are not "clearly taught" in the textbook you quoted! There is no mention of any dot spinning. How could you write such blatantly fallacious bullshit? I just don't get it.

    As for thermodynamics, you obviously don't understand that either. You would have to be an utterly brain dead moron to believe that scientists are contradicting a fundamental law like that without knowing it, and that you, an utterly ignorant buffoon know better than the scientists who developed the theories of thermodynamics, astrophysics, and all the rest of it. This reveals you SATANIC PRIDE that is so typical of ignorant corrupt creationists who despise the truth. How. Freaking. Pathetic.

    You live in LA LA LAND. You are totally freaking insane. Your ignorance is as deep as the ocean.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by malachigreenidge View Post
    Here is the dictionary definition of science...

    1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
    2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.


    Alright, so to all you evolutionists out there, I have some questions for you, since I am always under attack for my beliefs, its time for you guys to defend yours...if you dare!

    This is straight out of a highschool textbook. Classic!
    "Somewhere between 18 and 20 billion years ago, all of the matter in the universe was compressed into a tiny space no larger than the period (dot) at the end of the this sentence. This dot spun faster and faster until it exploded, thus creating the Universe and everything in it."

    This is by far the DUMBEST thing I have ever read in my life. I laughed at it back then, and I laugh even still today. You actually believe this? That our infinite universe and all matter started as a microscopic dot??? LOLOLOLOL!!!!

    So here is my first beef. This theory, the big bang, which is the root of your whole belief system, is not "scientific" even by the very definition of Science. It is not testable. It is not observable. Nor does it follow (any of) the general rules of science. (ie: 2nd law of Thermodynamics) So why do you guys call it science???

    Where did the dot come from?
    What caused it to start spinning?
    What caused it to spin faster and faster?
    What caused it to explode?
    Where did the energy come from?
    What force was holding all of that matter and energy inside that teeny, weeny, widdle dot???

    Hey Malachi,

    I will give you something else to chew on since Richard dismantled your creationist argument. You call the Big Bang a joke but you're missing something. All Christians essentially believe in a big bang. The only difference is you assert a god poofed everything into existence. Where is your evidence that god did it? Oh that's right, you don't have any. By asserting a god did it you haven't advanced the argument one bit.

    Also, your objections to the Big Bang theory are ridiculous. You say it's not testable or observable. Is your god observable or testable? Nope. So why do you believe it as fact? Because you have a strong delusion that you are dealing with an omnipotent god.

    You think this god created everything? Judges 1:19 19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

    Now that is truly LOL worthy.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace - Jimi Hendrix


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Hey there Malachi,

    Are you totally insane, utterly idiotic, or are you just pretending to be both? The quote that you said was "exact" is not exact at all. It doesn't mention any "dot" that began "spinning." Therefore

    Quote #1: "Somewhere between 18 and 20 billion years ago, all of the matter in the universe was compressed into a tiny space no larger than the period (dot) at the end of the this sentence. This dot spun faster and faster until it exploded, thus creating the Universe and everything in it."

    Quote #2: Most astronomers believe that about 18 to 20 billion years ago all the matter in the universe was concentrated into one very dense, very hot region that may have been much smaller than a period on this page. For some unknown reason, this region exploded.

    You say that quote #1 is exactly the same as quote #2?

    Therefore, there is no need to answer you question about "spinning" because you have not shown that any scientists have ever said anything about a "spinning dot" in relation to the Big Bang.

    And worse - it is utterly moronic for you to think you could refute astrophysics by misquoting a few sentences of a poorly written and entirely inaccurate description in a high school textbook! You have to deal with what the scientists actually have said.

    I can't believe how much error and falsehood is contained in your post. You say that Eric Lyons is an astrophysicist? Where did you get that idea? Here is what he says about himself (you can find this by clicking on his name on the The Big Fizzle: Admissions from an Evolutionary Astrophysicist):
    Eric Lyons is a graduate of Freed-Hardeman University, where he earned a B.S. with a double major in Bible and history, and an M.Min. Eric, his wife Jana, and their three children (Bo, Micah, and Shelby) live and worship in Wetumpka, Alabama, where Eric works with the youth of the Wetumpka church of Christ. Eric currently serves as a member of the Bible Department at Apologetics Press, where he has worked for the past 12 years.

    Eric has authored or co-authored a number of books, including The Anvil Rings: Answers to Alleged Bible Discrepancies (Volumes 1 & 2), Behold! The Lamb of God, Truth Be Told, and Wonders of God's Creation. In addition, he writes weekly for the Apologetics Press Web site, is editor of the Explorer Series, and assistant editor of Discovery, the monthly magazine on Scripture and science for children published by Apologetics Press. Eric speaks frequently at youth rallies, Gospel meetings, and seminars around the country, and specializes in presenting seminars on the following topics:
    He is a typical ignorant, corrupt, lying, Christian apologist who doesn't give a shit about the truth any more than you do! The crap you have written in this one thread is all the proof anyone needs to know that you despise and mock the truth. You are a perfect example of how your religion tends to corrupt the minds and morals of believers. It is simply INSANE to think you could refute the General Theory of Relativity by misquoting a few sentences from a poorly written highschool textbook.


    They are not "clearly taught" in the textbook you quoted! There is no mention of any dot spinning. How could you write such blatantly fallacious bullshit? I just don't get it.

    As for thermodynamics, you obviously don't understand that either. You would have to be an utterly brain dead moron to believe that scientists are contradicting a fundamental law like that without knowing it, and that you, an utterly ignorant buffoon know better than the scientists who developed the theories of thermodynamics, astrophysics, and all the rest of it. This reveals you SATANIC PRIDE that is so typical of ignorant corrupt creationists who despise the truth. How. Freaking. Pathetic.

    You live in LA LA LAND. You are totally freaking insane. Your ignorance is as deep as the ocean.

    Bravo Richard! It never gets old seeing another creationist argument get shot down. This reminds me of when William Lane Craig tried to explain why Einstein was wrong with his pseudoscience. Truly pathetic.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace - Jimi Hendrix


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post

    You think this god created everything? Judges 1:19 19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
    Judges 1:19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he (Judah) drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.[/B]

    There is nothing to suggest God was doing the driving. Why God did not help Judah to drive out the inhabitants which had the iron chariots is the question that should be asked. It is not that God could not do it, but why it was not expedient for God to help Judah do it? You have to think beyond the obvious and plan the future, which is what God does. His plan, whatever it is and we do not know at this point what it is, shall be accomplished.

    Maybe those who believe in God attribute miracles to him which are not necessarily miracles. For example, we are told (Exodus 14:25) And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: This seems to suggest from the text the translators think God took off the wheels. The reading of these verses of this episode does not quite make sense. I think there is another explanation in which the original Hebrew text does not lose its meaning. The translators could have written; the wheels of the chariots fell off due to the excessive wear on the chariot. That was very convenient in the purpose of God to cause the Egyptians to travel so far to catch up with the Children of Israel. The wheels started to fall off in great numbers in the place where the Egyptians could be drowned.

    Just consider for a moment how far these chariots had come, and the rough terrain over which they had travelled. By the time the chariots got to the crossing of the sea, the wheels were ready to drop off. I expect in their haste, the Egyptians drove the chariots too fast for the condition of the axles at this time, thus causing them to shake themselves to pieces. As with a car, once a wheel bearing starts to show signs of wear and play in the bearing, the bearing soon fails and even sooner the faster you continue to drive.

    There is the wisdom of God; to know exactly how long a chariot axle bearing would last and at what point the axle bearing would break. I expect wheels fell off some chariots long before they got to the sea crossing, but as with any man-made product, there is an average life-expectancy and some products last longer and some shorter. The average life-expectancy of the axles and wheels ran out at the sea crossing.


    David
    Last edited by David M; 11-16-2013 at 02:55 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Judges 1:19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he (Judah) drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.[/B]

    There is nothing to suggest God was doing the driving. Why God did not help Judah to drive out the inhabitants which had the iron chariots is the question that should be asked. It is not that God could not do it, but why it was not expedient for God to help Judah do it? You have to think beyond the obvious and plan the future, which is what God does. His plan, whatever it is and we do not know at this point what it is, shall be accomplished.
    That is not true David. You have made this explanation up. And it doesn't work for a couple of reasons. Even if we say "he" refers to Judah, the Lord was still with Judah and they failed. So either directly or indirectly the Lord was doing the driving. So either God failed on his own or Judah failed with God. The result is the same. It is NOT the work of an omnipotent God. But Psalms tells us the Lord was among the chariots of God.

    Psalm 68:17 17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.



    Numbers says that if the Lord isn't with you then you will be defeated by your enemies.

    Numbers 14:42-43 42 Do not go up, because the Lord is not with you. You will be defeated by your enemies, 43 for the Amalekites and the Canaanites will face you there. Because you have turned away from the Lord, he will not be with you and you will fall by the sword.”



    And Deuteronomy 20 tells us this about going into battle.

    20 When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the Lord thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

    2 And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people,

    3 And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;

    4 For the Lord your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.



    The Bible tells us that Judah CANNOT lose if the Lord is with them. And Judges 1:19 tells us the Lord was with Judah and they failed.

    I'm sorry, but your explanations don't work here David.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace - Jimi Hendrix


  9. #9
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    "[COLOR="#FF8C00"]When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?"[/COLOR] Mt16. Today we can say to them: You're so intent on finding 'problems with Scripture', that you pass right on by the multitude of figurative and spiritual truths. The 2nd Enoch#7 and the 2nd Lamech#9 lead on to the 2nd Jacob#63 ('supplanter' and repeat 'Father of Joseph') in Mt 1:16

    Jesus could call on legions of angels, but his power limited somehow.. ??
    Matt13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
    Mark 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
    Dux allows: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out the matter". Pr25:2

  10. #10
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    Hello L67
    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    That is not true David. You have made this explanation up. And it doesn't work for a couple of reasons. Even if we say "he" refers to Judah, the Lord was still with Judah and they failed. So either directly or indirectly the Lord was doing the driving.
    It is my explanation, so yes I have reasoned it out myself, in that I have explained why Judah did not drive out the chariots of iron. You miss the point; it could have been in God's purpose that Judah did not drive the chariots of iron out. You have to ask why, but you do not and you would be speculating as to the reason why unless you can find a piece of scripture afterwards that sheds light on that event and what happens in the future to those people who were not defeated at that time or who did not defeat Judah. There is no indication that God was doing the driving in this case, so stop making things up; just as you accuse me of doing.


    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    The Bible tells us that Judah CANNOT lose if the Lord is with them. And Judges 1:19 tells us the Lord was with Judah and they failed.
    Judah was not defeated in this case. They are neither a winner nor a loser. If God is for a person, and God wants to intervene, then nothing could stop God. Paul was convinced (Rom 8:38); For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. As I have quoted someone else before; "the safest place to be is in the will of God". Therefore, those who believe in God and his only begotten Son have the assurance of the resurrection and of the judgement to come. The judgement should hold no fear to those who love God. It is God's good pleasure to give you the kingdom, but if you want to reject God's offer, you have every right to do so. You will not dissuade me from following the path I am taking.

    Quote Originally Posted by L67 View Post
    I'm sorry, but your explanations don't work here David.
    You are not really sorry. What have you to be sorry about? I am sorry you have put yourself in the position of rejecting God. You will not stop me from believing in God, who has revealed himself in ways which you are blind to and therefore have no faith in God.

    You have not won this argument and I have refuted your reply and shown that the conclusion you draw is not necessarily so.

    Regards
    David
    Last edited by David M; 11-18-2013 at 02:25 PM.

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