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  1. #1
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    God is Not a Good Theory

    I put this post in the physics section because Sean Carroll is a notable physicist who does an excellent job of giving reasons from the viewpoint of a physicist as to why positing a creator god to explain the origins of the universe is not a good theory.

    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  2. #2
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    After watching Sean Carroll's video on why god is not a good theory, I thought of some improvements to the quality of life that could be made if a benevolent, omnipotent god were truly the creator of the universe.

    1. Humans would be made in such a manner as to be incapable of committing evil, yet still have free will.

    2. Humans like other animals would have the same language with which to communicate, so information could be shared much more easily.

    3. The world would be constructed in such a manner as to prevent casualties from natural disasters.

    4. Disease and harmful mutations would be prevented.

    5. All places on the planet would be optimal for life without famines or pestilences.

    These are just 5 of the many possibilities that would improve the quality of life on earth, which should be no problem for a true omnipotent god.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    After watching Sean Carroll's video on why god is not a good theory, I thought of some improvements to the quality of life that could be made if a benevolent, omnipotent god were truly the creator of the universe.
    Hello Rose
    I have not had time to watch the video, however, I can comment on the improvements you think God could have done.

    First of all, we should keep in mind that God will have a kingdom on earth in which some of the things you think God should have done, God will do in future. In the kingdom of God, you would have no cause for complaint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Humans would be made in such a manner as to be incapable of committing evil, yet still have free will.
    In the kingdom of God, those resurrected will be given immortal bodies which will not be subject to temptation and will not sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    2. Humans like other animals would have the same language with which to communicate, so information could be shared much more easily.
    Originally there was one language. It was because what man was doing that God created different languages to split the people up. In the Kingdom of God there will be no need to split people up by language and so restoring conditions pre the fall, will be back to one language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    3. The world would be constructed in such a manner as to prevent casualties from natural disasters.
    In the verse from Revelation, which I quote below, God has said he will make all things new. We can expect natural disasters to be done away. Note that many disasters could be avoided by the people themselves;I am not saying all, but far fewer human deaths would have occurred if man had not taken risks having known the dangers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    4. Disease and harmful mutations would be prevented.
    (Rev 21:4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. God will do what you say should be done. This is a picture of the kingdom to come

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    5. All places on the planet would be optimal for life without famines or pestilences.
    (Isaiah 11:6) The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. This certainly paints a picture that is far different to the life that goes on now. Famines and pestilences can be eliminated by man where there is the will. You have used this as one of man's achievements in reducing suffering through medicine etc. God's cure is far better than any medicine that man makes. Do not forget that it is man that is responsible for much of the sickness in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    These are just 5 of the many possibilities that would improve the quality of life on earth, which should be no problem for a true omnipotent god.
    Your wish will be granted Rose. Are you sure you would not like to live in a world in which all the things you complain of are done away? That is what God is offering you and yet you want to reject it. You have lost sight of the end to which God will put right the wrong that has come about under man's rule.

    Think about this Rose. Evolution does not include God so everything that has happened in the world, the wars etc are purely by man's making. That is the conclusion if there is no God. Think of all the wars and disasters caused by man and all the suffering and death. Think about all the worship of false gods that do not exist and the parents who have allowed their children to be sacrificed to these gods. You have a sick world, a very violent world and all the blame has to rest with man since there is no God. This would all have to be blamed on Evolution if God is taken out. By comparison, a few acts of punishment by God on certain evil societies in no way compares to the amount of evil done and the death caused by man's violence. God has judged righteously and dealt fairly and it is unfortunate that those people exercised their freewill to do abominable things in the sight of God and to any normal person, they can see that those things done by those societies were abominable. This is what God will put right. For all of man's rule and for all the benefits to have come from science and technology, the world under man's rule has not got any better. Some might have a better quality of life but there are billions that are suffering. The signs are that the world is getting worse. It is wishful thinking (to me) that some think that man will solve the problems and put everything right. The indication is that the world is in decline and it is getting worse. 6,000 years of man's rule has not given us a peaceful world. I see no reason to think that man will suddenly change from what he is already doing. God has allowed man to have his rule and man has failed. Now God will judge all nations after which he will set his Son to rule the earth in righteousness. This is the only way of government that will succeed. No man has ruled this way or been allowed to rule this way. What man is incapable of, God will do. God will prove that his way is the only way. The results will be the proof.

    All the best
    David
    Last edited by David M; 08-26-2013 at 04:12 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Rose
    I have not had time to watch the video, however, I can comment on the improvements you think God could have done.

    First of all, we should keep in mind that God will have a kingdom on earth in which some of the things you think God should have done, God will do in future. In the kingdom of God, you would have no cause for complaint.

    In the kingdom of God, those resurrected will be given immortal bodies which will not be subject to temptation and will not sin.
    Hi David

    If god can do it in the future why not from the beginning with no possibility of humans screwing things up.

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Originally there was one language. It was because what man was doing that God created different languages to split the people up. In the Kingdom of God there will be no need to split people up by language and so restoring conditions pre the fall, will be back to one language.
    Why didn't god make the brain in a way that humans had no way of thinking evil thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    In the verse from Revelation, which I quote below, God has said he will make all things new. We can expect natural disasters to be done away. Note that many disasters could be avoided by the people themselves;I am not saying all, but far fewer human deaths would have occurred if man had not taken risks having known the dangers.


    (Rev 21:4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. God will do what you say should be done. This is a picture of the kingdom to come
    Again, if god can do it in the future why not from the beginning?


    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    (Isaiah 11:6) The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. This certainly paints a picture that is far different to the life that goes on now. Famines and pestilences can be eliminated by man where there is the will. You have used this as one of man's achievements in reducing suffering through medicine etc. God's cure is far better than any medicine that man makes. Do not forget that it is man that is responsible for much of the sickness in the world.
    No matter how advanced man becomes there will still be droughts and natural disasters. Why? If god promises a perfect, paradisaical future, why make humans suffer now?

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Your wish will be granted Rose. Are you sure you would not like to live in a world in which all the things you complain of are done away? That is what God is offering you and yet you want to reject it. You have lost sight of the end to which God will put right the wrong that has come about under man's rule.

    Think about this Rose. Evolution does not include God. Think of all the wars and disasters caused by man and all the suffering and death. Think about all the worship of gods that do not exist and that parents have allowed their children to be sacrificed. If you take away God, you are still left with a very violent world and all the blame has to rest with man since there is no God. By comparison, a few acts of punishment on certain evil societies in no way compares to the amount of evil done and death caused by man's violence. This is what God will put right. For all of man's rule and for all the science and technology, the world under man's rule has not got any better. The signs are that it is getting worse. It is wishful thinking to me that some think that man the situation will get better and that man will solve all the problems. The indication is that the world is in decline and it is getting worse. God has allowed man to have his rule and he has failed. Now God will judge all nations and will set his Son to rule the earth in righteousness that is the only way and which no man has been able to do and God will prove that his way is the only way. The results will be the proof.

    All the best
    David
    The world that the Bible paints with Yahweh as its creator is not a pretty picture, with practically every turn of the page human beings and animals are slaughtered by his command. The reason the authors of the Bible portray a blissful future in gods kingdom is because no one likes pain and suffering and everyone hopes that someday all their trials and tribulations will be over. If there really was a loving creator god the world would be a place of harmony and goodness, because there is no reason for a omnipotent god to allow any kind of suffering to exist.

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hi David

    If god can do it in the future why not from the beginning with no possibility of humans screwing things up.
    I doubt I can give you an answer that will satisfy you, but I have satisfied myself with an explanation.

    This is God's way of sorting out the wheat and the chaff. He has given man freewill to go his own way or chose God's way. God did not create humans to be robots; pre-programmed only to do his will. I am sure God could have done that. In fact, that is what God has done with his Angels and that is why I support the claim that God's Angels do not sin. God has made them the way you think man should have been made. This is why man is different and has been made, knowing that not all men and women are going to do as God instructs them. God will sort out and reject the rebellious people who do not make the grade. What other way do you think this could be done?

    It could be compared to taking a bag of marbles and dropping them down a bagatelle board, some marbles will fall down the hole that gives a prize and most will fall down the hole that gives nothing. It is impossible to know which individual marble is going to end up in which hole. That is the randomness built into the system. God knew potentially all would fail, but that it was possible to succeed. That was proven with the begetting of his son and Jesus (a man) proved it was possible to follow God's instruction and never sin. Given that God knew that even if Adam and Eve had not sinned, then one of their descendents would. God had to make provision for when that happened. This provision had to be there from the start and so it was inevitable that Adam or Eve would have to sin in order for the principle of redemption to be put in place. It would be very peculiar for say Adam and Eve to be living eternally and sinless while their children like Cain could kill. God had to set in place a consequence for sin and doing an evil act like Cain did. It was inevitable that Adam and Eve at some time would sin. If not this first test, then a second test could make them fail. That is hypothetical and was not necessary. We might wonder what would have happened differently if Adam had ate of the fruit first.
    We have an explanation for the way things are and whether you agree with it or not, there is nothing you can do about it. As the late Jim Rohn said; "when you can create your own planet, you can do things your way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Why didn't god make the brain in a way that humans had no way of thinking evil thoughts?
    that would be like the Angels of God. The Angels of God do not rebel. They do not sin, hence they are immortal. Immortality and sin cannot go together. You cannot have immortal sinners in the kingdom of God. Angels do God's will and there is a state of peace in God's Kingdom in Heaven.
    Eve disobeyed God's instruction. It was not done with evil intent. However, God had warned of the consequence and Eve reasoned that it would be OK to eat the fruit and she believed her own lie. Eve sinned only because she was tested and failed. God could have set an other test and the same result of disobedience would have resulted.
    Jesus started off with the same brain that all normal human babies start off with. Jesus grew and learned as he did so. Jesus was tempted to sin by the things he saw. Jesus was tempted greatly once he was given unlimited access to God's power. We are tempted in this life, because it is in our nature to get as much as we can in this life before we die. Consider living for ever in a world which gives you all you need and satisfies you. Eternal life takes away all need to be envious, or greedy. There is no need to be competitive and to gain the advantage over your neighbour. Eternal life takes away any need to sin to gain self-advantage. That is in itself a different mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Again, if god can do it in the future why not from the beginning?
    There would be no selection process. Death is the arbiter and the selection process takes place them. God will do it for those who have made the grade. You can make the grade, but that is entirely up to you to want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    No matter how advanced man becomes there will still be droughts and natural disasters. Why? If god promises a perfect, paradisaical future, why make humans suffer now?
    You should be asking; why does not man do that which will please God? Man in general has alienated himself from God. You only have to see how God pleaded with Israel to stop doing their abominations and they would not stop. That is the problem God is dealing with. The blessings of God are not given to the nations that are rejecting him. With such a world-wide rejection of God, it comes down to personal acceptance. The nations are blessed in some measure according to how they respond to Israel, but that comment/fact will be rejected by many. We cannot imagine how much better life would be if all of society accepted God and sought after him. We are living in painful times because of the collective rejection of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    The world that the Bible paints with Yahweh as its creator is not a pretty picture, with practically every turn of the page human beings and animals are slaughtered by his command. The reason the authors of the Bible portray a blissful future in gods kingdom is because no one likes pain and suffering and everyone hopes that someday all their trials and tribulations will be over. If there really was a loving creator god the world would be a place of harmony and goodness, because there is no reason for a omnipotent god to allow any kind of suffering to exist.
    That would mean that God would not only have to be a dictator, he would have to be an enforcer. It seems incompatible that God could let man have freewill and freedom of choice and then dictate and enforce and stifle that freewill and freedom of choice. Pain and suffering has come about purely through man's choices and man's ruling himself. God's solution is to have his son rule in righteousness and then man will accept the dictatorship of Jesus as the correct way and the only way that succeeds.

    God is a god of love, but God is also just and judges righteously. God has to abide by his word and yet is merciful. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. That is what God has decreed, and God is being true to his word. God has also promised eternal life to those who believe in him and his son and come to him in sincerity and truth.

    All the best
    David
    Last edited by David M; 08-27-2013 at 01:08 AM.

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