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  1. #11
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    Obama has painted himself into a corner. He says he "didn't know" about his pastor's extreme racist positions. But the evidence proves otherwise.

    What Obama Said About Wright Before Wright Mattered

    Here's a snippet of Obama's description of Wright's sermon that inspired his book:

    "It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks' greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere…That's the world! On which hope sits!"

    And so it went, a meditation on a fallen world. While the boys next to me doodled on their church bulletin, Reverend Wright spoke of Sharpsville and Hiroshima, the callousness of policy makers in the White House and in the State House. As the sermon unfolded, though, the stories of strife became more prosaic, the pain more immediate. The reverend spoke of the hardship that the congregation would face tomorrow, the pain of those far from the mountaintop, worrying about paying the light bill…
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  2. #12
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    Excellent post! This man Obama is not to be trusted!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Excellent post! This man Obama is not to be trusted!
    Well ... I am not sure what to make of Obama yet. It's beginning to seem like he might be able to overcome Wright's racism with his own message of unity. In his speech at the Democratic convention when Kerry was nominated he spoke of his great love for America, and he explicitly said that there was no "white America" or "black America" or "Latino America" but only the United States of America. And that directly contradicts Wright's ravings against "white America."

    So why did Obama stay in that church? He says its because Wright is the man that led him to Christ, and that he had developed relationships there and so forth. That seems believable. What then about his claim that he didn't "hear" Wright's ugly racist message? I think there may be some truth in that in the sense that Obama was conflicted because Wright's racism really does conflict with his own vision of America. He didn't "hear it" in the sense that he blocked it out because it conflicted with his own beliefs. Life is not simple. We all have "conflicted" areas of our lives where different pieces just don't fit together the way we would like.

    I watched Obama's speach this morning in Scranton PA and he used this scandal as an opportunity to emphasize his own message which is summed up in the statement that there is no "white America" and no "black America." He also was able to say that Wright's racism just goes to show how deeply this country has been damaged by its racist past and that we MUST come together and overcome this problems as a united people. I agree very much with him on this point.

    So now it looks like any mention of Wright's racism will simply give Obama an opportunity to emphasize his fundamental message of unity. And the truth is that a smart, articulate, responsive black man would bring this country much closer to that common goal. But I am still conflicted over him because I just don't know much about him. I don't know what he "really" believes, and he has lots of very questionable views, such as partical birth murder and other extreme leftist positions.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  4. #14
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    According to this article on WorldNetDaily.com, the Trinty United Church of Christ is doing some "damage control" by removing the link to their so-called "Black Value System." As of this morning, the page is still posted here though the link to it from the "About" page is now missing. I found it through Google. By my count, the word word "BLACK" appears 34 times in the twelve points, for an average of nearly 3 mentions of "BLACK" per point! One wonders how a white member of Trinity could possibly find any point of unity with their fundamental "Black Value System." Note also that this "value system" brainwashed young black men to think of their country and and its government as desiring to "kill them off directly" and when that fails, to put them in "concentration camps." So here it is:


    THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM

    Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System, written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee, chaired by the late Vallmer Jordan in 1981.

    Dr. Manford Byrd, our brother in Christ, withstood the ravage of being denied his earned ascension to the number one position in the Chicago School System. His dedication to the pursuit of excellence, despite systematic denials, has inspired the congregation of Trinity United Church of Christ. Prayerfully, we have called upon the wisdom of all past generations of suffering Blacks for guidance in fashioning an instrument of Black self-determination, the Black Value System.

    Beginning in 1982, an annual Black Value System – Educational Scholarship in the name of Dr. Byrd was instituted. The first recipient of the Dr. Manford Byrd Award, which is given annually to the man or woman who best exemplifies the Black Value System, was our brother, Dr. Manford Byrd.

    These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They consist of the following concepts:
    1. Commitment to God. “The God of our weary years” will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activists, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.
    2. Commitment to the Black Community. The highest level of achievement for any Black person must be a contribution of strength and continuity of the Black Community.
    3. Commitment to the Black Family. The Black family circle must generate strength, stability and love, despite the uncertainty of externals, because these characteristics are required if the developing person is to withstand warping by our racist competitive society. Those Blacks who are blessed with membership in a strong family unit must reach out and expand that blessing to the less fortunate.
    4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education. We must forswear anti-intellectualism. Continued survival demands that each Black person be developed to the utmost of his/her mental potential despite the inadequacies of the formal education process. “Real education” fosters understanding of ourselves as well as every aspect of our environment. Also, it develops within us the ability to fashion concepts and tools for better utilization of our resources, and more effective solutions to our problems. Since the majority of Blacks have been denied such learning, Black Education must include elements that produce high school graduates with marketable skills, a trade or qualifications for apprenticeships, or proper preparation for college. Basic education for all Blacks should include Mathematics, Science, Logic, General Semantics, Participative Politics, Economics and Finance, and the Care and Nurture of Black minds.
    5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence.To the extent that we individually reach for, even strain for excellence, we increase, geometrically, the value and resourcefulness of the Black Community. We must recognize the relativity of one’s best; this year’s best can be bettered next year. Such is the language of growth and development. We must seek to excel in every endeavor.
    6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic. “It is becoming harder to find qualified people to work in Chicago.” Whether this is true or not, it represents one of the many reasons given by businesses and industries for deserting the Chicago area. We must realize that a location with good facilities, adequate transportation and a reputation for producing skilled workers will attract industry. We are in competition with other cities, states and nations for jobs. High productivity must be a goal of the Black workforce.
    7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect. To accomplish anything worthwhile requires self-discipline. We must be a community of self-disciplined persons if we are to actualize and utilize our own human resources, instead of perpetually submitting to exploitation by others. Self-discipline, coupled with a respect for self, will enable each of us to be an instrument of Black Progress and a model for Black Youth.
    8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness.” Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

      Those so identified are separated from the rest of the people by:
      1. Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.
      2. Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.
      3. Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us.”
      4. So, while it is permissible to chase “middleclassness” with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method – the psychological entrapment of Black “middleclassness.” If we avoid this snare, we will also diminish our “voluntary” contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright: the leadership, resourcefulness and example of their own talented persons.
    9. Pledge to Make the Fruits of All Developing and Acquired Skills Available to the Black Community.
    10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions.
    11. Pledge Allegiance to All Black Leadership Who Espouse and Embrace the Black Value System.
    12. Personal Commitment to Embracement of the Black Value System. To measure the worth and validity of all activity in terms of positive contributions to the general welfare of the Black Community and the Advancement of Black People towards freedom.
    Obama has a real problem here. He denies that he "heard" Wright's incendiary racist remarks, but there is no way he can deny knowing about this "Black" so-called "Value System" that separates blacks from whites and insinutates that whites are murderous Nazi-like oppressors who desire to kill and enslave "Black" people in concentration camps.

    Imagine the damage theses teachings do to the young black minds. The wounds of slavery and racism are freshly ripped open ever time Jeremiah Wright preached his racist doctrines. Hatred and hopelessness are newly planted and nourished in the minds of every Black Child who is told that "white America" seeks to kill them.

    Jeremiah Wright's doctrines are contrary to the message of reconciliation taught in the Bible. There is no "white" or "black" in the Body of Christ. And this is the real mystery of Barak Obama. He emphatically and repeatedly denies Wright's racist view that there is a "white America" versus a "Black America." Here is how he stated it most recently:

    Some of you were alive when this speech was given... He was in a crowd mostly of African Americans. And he delivered the news that Dr. King had been shot and killed. And he said, at that moment of anguish, he said, we've got a choice... in taking the rage and bitterness and disappointment and letting it fester and dividing us further, so that we no longer see each other as Americans, but we see each other as separate and apart and at odds with each other. Or we can take a different path that says we have different stories, but we have common dreams and common hopes. And we can decide to walk down this road together. And remake America once again. And, you know, I think about those words often, especially in the last several weeks - because this campaign started on the basis that we are one America.As I said in my speech at the convention in 2004, there is no black America, or white America, or Asian America, or Latino America. There is the United States of America.
    I think that the Trinity Church accurately represents the damage done by our racist past. As a black man, Obama is part of that culture, but he himself is not looking to the past but to the future when we all can finally wake up from this ancient nightmare of racism. It looks to me that Obama recognizes the error of men like Wright and genuinely wants to move the country towards unity. And since he is in a unique position to help us realize our common goal of a UNITED AMERICA, I think it is absolutely imperative that we do not lose sight of that goal because of Wright's personal psychological and theological weaknesses.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  5. #15
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    Here is an aricle that reveals that Obama was in fact in attendance at one of these hate sermons by Pastor Wright. Yet he claims he never heard them.

    http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/Obama.../16/80870.html

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Here is an aricle that reveals that Obama was in fact in attendance at one of these hate sermons by Pastor Wright. Yet he claims he never heard them.

    http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/Obama.../16/80870.html
    Thanks Nikos - that's very important. But I think everyone already knew that Obama lied on this point. While it is believable that he didn't hear the specific sermons being discussed, it is impossible to believe that he didn't hear things like them. If Obama were honest, he should have said "I didn't actually hear those specific sermons, but I heard others like them. And all I can say is that I was conflicted by my loyalties to community and church as family, and to Wright as the man who led me to Christ."

    I think that would have flown just fine, because we all find ourselves in conflicted situations at times. And I think it is close to the reality, because as far as I can tell, Obama really does disagree with Wright's racism. But then again ... I have nothing to go on but his speaches, and he is smart enough to know that he would have to hide his racism if he was racists ... so how do we know? We don't know with certainty, I guess, but since I don't have any evidence that he is racist, I give him the benefit of the doubt.

    I find myself conflicted with Obama because I would be absolutely delighted if we could elect a clearly non-racist black man for President. And he seems articulate, intelligent, and responsive to ideas and evidence which are essential qualities of true leadership. But I don't want anyone like Wright of Farrakhan within a thousand miles of the President, and here we have both of them one step removed.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  7. #17
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    I thought it was interesting in the article that the man who saw Obama at one of these sermons said that Obama nodded his head in agreement with what Wright was saying.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    I thought it was interesting in the article that the man who saw Obama at one of these sermons said that Obama nodded his head in agreement with what Wright was saying.
    That's a very important point. Here's the quote:

    In his sermon that day, Wright tore into America, referring to the 'United States of White America' and lacing his sermon with expletives as Obama listened. Hearing Wright’s attacks on his own country, Obama had the opportunity to walk out, but Davis said the senator sat in his pew and nodded in agreement.
    I'll be watching to see if Obama attempts to answer this evidence. I also imagine there will be more, especially since his wife said that the "first time in her adult life" she had any pride for her country was only after Obama began to succeed in his campaign. By itself, that was a disturbing admission, but in light of Wright's racism, it seems almost damning.

    Thanks for keeping us informed Nikos. As you probably can tell, I find a lot of things about Obama appealing with great potential to bridge the racial divide in America and relations with other counties too. But there are many problems besides his association with Wright, such as his leftist positions on govenment and abortion and such things.

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #19
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    I think everyone should watch this promo video produced by Obama's campaign:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fZHou18Cdk
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #20
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    I don't know who changed what when, but there is a link to the "Black Value System" near the bottom of the Home page of Trinity United Church of Christ. So the WND article accusing "Obama's preacher" of "sanitizing" the site is not valid.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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