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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    Hello Sylvius



    If we consider Jesus was in the grave three full nights and three full days and that the disciples could have been lax in their determination of three days, (...)

    Matthew 12:40 doesn't say "in the grave", but "in the heart of the earth",

    What is earth?

    1) An Edenic (from Hebrew "arets").

    "Arets" can be seen as derived from "ruts" = to run. So meaning: "I do run" (ain't that also the title of a song?).

    The earth, matter, just exists in the here and now. That's why it goes quicker than the eye. (light needs time to travel).

    2) That which became visible when the water did draw into one place,

    Genesis 1:9-10
    And God said, "Let the water that is beneath the heavens gather into one place, and let the dry land appear," and it was so. And God called the dry land earth.

    So it seems "earth" is something insoluble in water, which is said also of the luz-bone, a little bone in the spine that cannot decay and from which man is said to be resurrected.
    the hardcore in time ..

    Jesus said to be in the very heart of it.

  2. #12
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    It follows that "mayim", water, is something metaphysical

    Water symbol of time.

    Genesis 2:5-6,

    Now no tree of the field was yet on the earth, neither did any herb of the field yet grow, because the Lord God had not brought rain upon the earth, and there was no man to work the soil. And a mist ascended from the earth and watered the entire surface of the ground.


    Growth being a process in time (like evolution)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    It follows that "mayim", water, is something metaphysical

    Water symbol of time.

    Genesis 2:5-6,

    Now no tree of the field was yet on the earth, neither did any herb of the field yet grow, because the Lord God had not brought rain upon the earth, and there was no man to work the soil. And a mist ascended from the earth and watered the entire surface of the ground.


    Growth being a process in time (like evolution)
    ------------------------------
    Hold up! You are making alot of interesting comments but.... the original verse says nothing about "water" in verse 5!
    And myst in verse 6 is not rain/water per se.

    ◄ Genesis 2:5 ►
    New International Version (©2011)
    Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground,

    << Genesis 2:5 >>

    Strong's Transliteration Hebrew English
    3605 [e] wə·ḵōl וְכֹ֣ל ׀ and every
    7880 [e] śî·aḥ שִׂ֣יחַ plant
    7704 [e] haś·śā·ḏeh, הַשָּׂדֶ֗ה of the field
    2962 [e] ṭe·rem טֶ֚רֶם was yet
    1961 [e] yih·yeh יִֽהְיֶ֣ה become
    776 [e] ḇā·’ā·reṣ, בָאָ֔רֶץ the earth
    3605 [e] wə·ḵāl וְכָל־ and every
    6212 [e] ‘ê·śeḇ עֵ֥שֶׂב herb
    7704 [e] haś·śā·ḏeh הַשָּׂדֶ֖ה of the field
    2962 [e] ṭe·rem טֶ֣רֶם had yet
    6779 [e] yiṣ·māḥ; יִצְמָ֑ח sprouted
    3588 [e] kî כִּי֩ for
    3808 [e] lō לֹ֨א had not
    4305 [e] him·ṭîr הִמְטִ֜יר sent
    3068 [e] Yah·weh יְהוָ֤ה the LORD
    430 [e] ’ĕ·lō·hîm אֱלֹהִים֙ God
    5921 [e] ‘al- עַל־ upon
    776 [e] hā·’ā·reṣ, הָאָ֔רֶץ the earth
    120 [e] wə·’ā·ḏām וְאָדָ֣ם man
    369 [e] ’a·yin, אַ֔יִן no
    5647 [e] la·‘ă·ḇōḏ לַֽעֲבֹ֖ד to cultivate
    853 [e] ’eṯ- אֶת־ -
    127 [e] hā·’ă·ḏā·māh. הָֽאֲדָמָֽה׃ the ground

    ===============
    << Genesis 2:6 >>


    Strong's Transliteration Hebrew English
    108 [e] wə·’êḏ וְאֵ֖ד A mist
    5927 [e] ya·‘ă·leh יַֽעֲלֶ֣ה to rise
    4480 [e] min- מִן־ from
    776 [e] hā·’ā·reṣ; הָאָ֑רֶץ the earth
    8248 [e] wə·hiš·qāh וְהִשְׁקָ֖ה and water
    853 [e] ’eṯ- אֶֽת־ -
    3605 [e] kāl- כָּל־ the whole
    6440 [e] pə·nê- פְּנֵֽי־ surface
    127 [e] hā·’ă·ḏā·māh. הָֽאֲדָמָֽה׃ of the ground

    -------------------------------------------------------
    So the word "mayim" or water in that form does not appear here in these two verses. the word mist and water do appear in verse 6 but the form is different than what you reference. Water in the Bible is ususally associated with spirit/mind consciousness. It does not mean that there could be other ideas hidden in the words but it is a stretch to say that the Genesis story supports long evolutionary times sequences. Especially when compared to
    Exodus 20:8-11. The idea of literal days in creation is sealed within the manna story where manna fell only six days and on the 7th day did not fall as it was the "Sabbath of Creation".

    Although a young earth flies in the face of the "evidence" we see in geology it stands to reason that the creation epic is not about science per se as much as it is about establishing GOD model sequences for the "End of all things". GOD is not interested in proving anything save the fact that He is GOD and as such expects complete faith in His law and His testimony even as regards to times and events. "As long as she lay desolate she kept Sabbath."

    Namaste,

    Mystykal

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Matthew 12:40 doesn't say "in the grave", but "in the heart of the earth",

    What is earth?

    1) An Edenic (from Hebrew "arets").

    "Arets" can be seen as derived from "ruts" = to run. So meaning: "I do run" (ain't that also the title of a song?).

    The earth, matter, just exists in the here and now. That's why it goes quicker than the eye. (light needs time to travel).

    2) That which became visible when the water did draw into one place,

    Genesis 1:9-10
    And God said, "Let the water that is beneath the heavens gather into one place, and let the dry land appear," and it was so. And God called the dry land earth.

    So it seems "earth" is something insoluble in water, which is said also of the luz-bone, a little bone in the spine that cannot decay and from which man is said to be resurrected.
    the hardcore in time ..

    Jesus said to be in the very heart of it.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10200-luz

    LUZ: 1. Older name of the city of Beth-el (Gen. xxviii. 19, xxxv. 6, xlviii. 3; Josh. xvi. 2, xviii. 13; Judges i. 23).
    2. Name of a city in the land of the Hittites, built by an emigrant from Beth-el, who was spared and sent abroad by the Israelitish invaders because he showed them the entrance to the city (Judges i. 26). "Luz" being the Hebrew word for an almond-tree, it has been suggested that the city derived its name from such a tree or grove of trees. Winckler compares the Arabic "laudh" ("asylum"). Robinson ("Researches," iii. 389) identifies the city either with Luwaizah, near the city of Dan, or (ib. iii. 425) with Kamid al-Lauz, north of Heshbon (now Ḥasbiyyah); Talmudic references seem to point to its location as somewhere near the Phenician coast (Soṭah46b; Sanh. 12a; Gen. R. lxix. 7). Legend invested the place with miraculous qualities. "Luz, the city known for its blue dye, is the city which Sennacherib entered but could not harm; Nebuchadnezzar, but could not destroy; the city over which the angel of death has no power; outside the walls of which the aged who are tired of life are placed, where they meet death" (Soṭah 46b); wherefore it is said of Luz, "the name thereof is unto this day" (Judges i. 26, Hebr.). It is furthermore stated that an almond-tree with a hole in it stood before the entrance to a cave that was near Luz; through that hole persons entered the cave and found the way to the city, which was altogether hidden (Gen. R. l.c.).
    3. Aramaic name for the os coccyx, the "nut" of the spinal column. The belief was that, being indestructible, it will form the nucleus for the resurrection of the body. The Talmud narrates that the emperor Hadrian, when told by R. Joshua that the revival of the body at the resurrection will take its start with the "almond," or the "nut," of the spinal column, had investigations made and found that water could not soften, nor fire burn, nor the pestle and mortar crush it (Lev. R. xviii.; Eccl. R. xii.). The legend of the "resurrection bone," connected with Ps. xxxiv. 21 (A. V. 20: "unum ex illis [ossibus] non confringetur") and identified with the cauda equina (see Eisenmenger, "Entdecktes Judenthum," ii. 931-933), was accepted as an axiomatic truth by the Christian and Mohammedan theologians and anatomists, and in the Middle Ages the bone received the name "Juden Knöchlein" (Jew-bone; see Hyrtl, "Das Arabische und Hebräische in der Anatomie," 1879, pp. 165-168; comp. p. 24). Averroes accepted the legend as true (see his "Religion und Philosophie," transl. by Müller, 1875, p. 117; see also Steinschneider, "Polemische Literatur," 1877, pp. 315, 421; idem, "Hebr. Bibl." xxi. 98; idem, "Hebr. Uebers." p. 319; Löw, "Aramäische Pflanzennamen," 1881, p. 320). Possibly the legend owes its origin to the Egyptian rite of burying "the spinal column of Osiris" in the holy city of Busiris, at the close of the days of mourning for Osiris, after which his resurrection was celebrated (Brugsch, "Religion und Mythologie," 1888, pp. 618, 634).
    Bibliography:
    Jastrow, Dict.;
    Levy, Neuhebr. Wörterb.
    -----------------------------------
    http://undercoverkofer.blogspot.com/.../luz-bone.html

    Wednesday, February 23, 2011The Luz Bone
    Returning in the flesh, Jewish style
    According to current Jewish tradition, the belief in the resurrection of the dead is a principal article of faith:

    “And these are the ones that will not have a portion in the World to Come: One who says that the resurrection of dead is not of biblical origin.” (Mishnah Sanhedrin 10:1)

    (Incidentally, this means that if you don’t believe in heaven, you will not gain entrance to heaven. Which, I am afraid, won’t really scare anyone that doesn’t believe in heaven in the first place.)

    Resurrection creates an obvious problem: After a person dies, the body disintegrates to such an extent that resurrecting it as is will not be feasible. Even better: sometimes there is nothing left of a body, e.g. when a body was burnt.

    How does Judaism deal with this theological problem?

    As it often does, the answer needs a miracle. The Rabbis believe that there is a bone in the human body from which the body is rebuilt after the resurrection. This is what is called the Luz bone. As stated in Bereishit Rabba 28:3:

    “And G’d said: ‘I will wipe away mankind’... Hadrian was [once] grinding bones. He asked Rabbi Yehoshua ben Chananyah: ‘From where does the Holy One Blessed be He reconstruct man in the future to come?’ He answered him: ‘From [the] Luz of the spine.’ Said he: ‘From where do you know this?’. He said: ‘It has come to me [it was delivered to me as a tradition] and I will show you.’ They tried to grind it in a mill but it was not ground, they burnt it in fire but it was not consumed, they put it in water but it was not softened, they put it on an anvil and he started to beat it with a hammer but the anvil slipped, the hammer was broken and it remained intact.”

    Incidentally, muslims also believe in the Luz myth and call it "^Ajbu al-Thanab" (عَجْبُ الذَّنَب). At least something Muslims and Jews agree on!

    However, it seems to be that the chiddush of the Luz bone was not entirely ours. The JewishEncyclopedia.com website brings the following:

    Possibly the legend owes its origin to the Egyptian rite of burying "the spinal column of Osiris" in the holy city of Busiris, at the close of the days of mourning for Osiris, after which his resurrection was celebrated (Brugsch, "Religion und Mythologie," 1888, pp. 618, 634).

    Luzing it
    Now everybody knows that if you cremate a corpse that only ashes are left. Even the Ohr Somayach website says in an article on cremation (disagreeing with the Midrash):

    “Furthermore, one who has his body cremated will not merit resurrection a fundamental belief of Judaism expressed in Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith: I believe with complete faith that there will be a resurrection of the dead, when the wish emanates from the Creator. One explanation is that cremation destroys even the extremely hard luz bone from which a buried body is reconstituted.”

    The fantasy only starts from there. Same web site, different article:

    It [the Luz bone] has curious properties: It receives nourishment only from food eaten Saturday night at the melave malka meal (Mishna Berurah 300:2 in the name of some ‘kadmonim’).

    Rabbi Asher Meir from on the OU website adds:

    “The Eliah Rabbah relates a remarkable tradition explaining the connection between the LUZ and melave malka. He points out that originally, the entire body was indestructible; Adam and Chava were meant to live forever.

    Death was decreed for them only because they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. However, one tiny bone was not nourished by this fruit, the LUZ, which is only nourished by the Saturday night meal! Thus this bone retained its original, pre-fall immortality.”

    Meir goes on to explain that Motzaei Shabbat is the day after Shabbat, the day representing Olam Haba and that Motza’ei Shabbat exudes a higher level of perfection. Therefore:

    “this special limb was created to be nourished and cultivated only in an environment of perfected development.”

    Note that association between ‘Luz’ and defying death was already hinted at in Bereishit Rabbah 69:8. There it tells us about the city of Luz and its magical powers over death:

    “This is the same Luz that the Angel of Death never had power over.”

    Shoyn.

    Bone of contention
    Instead of scientificillay trying to prove where the bone can be found, i.e. testing where this strongest bone really is to be found, there is a difference of opinion. After all, chazal would have nothing to teach if we didn’t have a machloket about every single thing, regardless of its sillyness.

    The Arizal and Chida hold that it is located in the place where the knot of the tefillin is placed. This certainly sounds more mystical than some other commentators (including Aruch, Rokeach, Recanati) who believe that the Luz bone is located at the bottom of the spine and that it is nothing less than the tail bone (Coccyx), which incidentally is believed to be evidence for evolution.

    And you know that many Rabbis believe that not believing in evolution is almost an article of faith. Just as belief in the resurrection is!
    --------------------------
    So the fact that you can burn to ash all bone proves this myth to have some other purpose than teaching scientific facts. It would seem to me to be teaching a mystical understanding of immortality.

    Namaste,

    Mystykal

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    ------------------------------
    Hold up! You are making alot of interesting comments but.... the original verse says nothing about "water" in verse 5!
    And myst in verse 6 is not rain/water per se.
    That's true, it doesn't use the word "mayim", water,

    but v. 5 mentions rain, "the Lord God had not brought rain upon the earth", maybe even as a wordplay wiht "terem", not yet, written with the same letters as "matar"= rain.

    v. 6 mentions "give to drink" (= "water"), And a mist ascended from the earth and watered the entire surface of the ground.

    "Mist" translates Hebrew "ed",
    LXX has πηγὴ,

    πηγὴ δὲ ἀνέβαινεν ἐκ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐπότιζεν πᾶν τὸ πρόσωπον τῆς γῆς

    Which seems to have been picked up by John and the writer of Revelation,

    John 4:14,
    ὃς δ' ἂν πίῃ ἐκ τοῦ ὕδατος οὗ ἐγὼ δώσω αὐτῷ, οὐ μὴ διψήσει εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα, ἀλλὰ τὸ ὕδωρ ὃ δώσω αὐτῷ γενήσεται ἐν αὐτῷ πηγὴ ὕδατος ἁλλομένου εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
    but whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

    Seemingly alluding to the metaphysical "mayim"...

    Revelation 21:5,
    ἐγώ [εἰμι] τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ ω, ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος. ἐγὼ τῷ διψῶντι δώσω ἐκ τῆς πηγῆς τοῦ ὕδατος τῆς ζωῆς δωρεάν.
    I [am] the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life for free
    Cost nothing!

    Interesting is the interpretation of Damascus, D'meshek, from whence Eliezer should have come, Rashi on Genesis 15:2,
    Damascus: Heb. דַּמֶּשֶׂק. According to the Targum, he was from Damascus, but according to the Midrash Aggadah (Gen. Rabbah 44:9) [the meaning is] that he pursued the kings until Damascus. And in our Talmud (Yoma 28b), it (the word דַּמֶּשֶׂק) is interpreted as a notarikon [acrostic for דּוֹלֶה וּמַשְׁקֶה]: he drew and gave to drink from his master’s teachings to others.
    who drew = "doleh" = who draws (present / infinite -- who always draws) -- from this; "d'li" = bucket -- he draws the water up in a bucket -- "d'li" = also ( eleventh starsign) Aquarius.

    gave to drink = "mashqeh" = (idem dito) who always gives to drink

    It's from the same verb as used in Genesis 2:6, "shakah".

    And also interesting
    Gematria of the name Eliezer ("my God is helpmate") is 318, coinciding the 318 trained servants with whom Abram gained victory over the four kings in favor of the five (Genesis 14:14),
    And more:
    318 is also gematria of "siach" mentioned in Genesis 2:5, translated "shrub", bur which can also mean "thought" - "meditation" - "speech".
    Last edited by sylvius; 05-22-2013 at 02:54 AM.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystykal View Post
    --------------------------
    So the fact that you can burn to ash all bone proves this myth to have some other purpose than teaching scientific facts. It would seem to me to be teaching a mystical understanding of immortality.

    Namaste,

    Mystykal

    Luz is the name of the place where Jacob dreamt of the ladder with it's top in heaven and which he renamed Bet-El = house of God (Genesis 28)

    "luz" means nut, nut in general, might be hazel, or almond, or wallnut.

    The kernel of the nut is eatable, unlike the kernel of f.e. the olive.


    Spanish "luz"= light.
    I thought the Zohar plays with that, said to be called so after Spanish "que haya luz" . = let there be light.
    "zohar"= brightness, light, brilliance.

    It occurs in Daniel 12:2-3,

    And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awaken-these for eternal life, and those for disgrace, for eternal abhorrence. And the wise will shine like the brightness of the sky, and those who bring the multitudes to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.

  7. #17
    Maybe someone new looking in will know of some writing.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    Maybe someone new looking in will know of some writing.
    Welcome rstrats ,

    There already is a 3 day/ 3 night thread in the biblical studies subforum, 2nd page. I'm going to copy my last post there here because it is worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by me, Steve
    Thanks for joining in the discussion. As for your link, I have seen it before. He makes several assumptions that are not backed up by scripture.

    First assumption:

    "The special Sabbath John referred to is the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and it’s a date specific holy day; always observed on the 15th of the month they call Nisan, which corresponds to March/April on our calendar. So the first thing we learn is that the special Sabbath mentioned in John 19:31 wasn’t a Saturday."

    Please read this link by a very respected scholar (you can read about his credentials on the website) http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/...ifixion/1.htmlHe deals with both "the preparation day" and "high sabbath" from a scriptural and historical basis, not speculation and circular reasoning.

    Second assumption:

    "Jesus died on Preparation day, the 14th of their month Nisan, which is Passover. He ate the ritual meal with His disciples in the Upper Room, and then was arrested, tried, convicted, and put to death; all on Passover. He had to be, in order to fulfill the prophecies of the Passover Lamb.

    So basically he just called Mark and Luke confused. (edit: because "liars" is over the top, sorry)

    Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

    Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

    Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: I don't see anything here about a ritual meal. That is just a fabrication by the Wed/ Thur crowd.

    Then he repeats this assumption:

    "As I’ve said, Jesus had to die on Passover to fulfill the prophecy."

    No he did not. Where does it say that? Pure speculation. Was Jesus' body burned like the Passover lamb's was? No. Was Jesus's blood put on the doorframes of houses? No. Why did the disciples eat his body and drink his blood (which is prohibited by the law) before and not after. Another thing, when Jesus said (Luk 22:20)" ..., This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. ", it is present tense. What about this?Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    If Jesus died on the 14th, he would not fulfill the slaying of the firstborn son (Ex 13). I could go on and on, but the point is that he is making an assumption and not backing it up with scripture.

    He then makes an ironical error:

    "A little over 100 years ago a believer named Robert Anderson was head of Scotland Yard’s investigative division. He became intrigued by the three days and three nights issue and enlisted the help of the London Royal Observatory to investigate the problem ...."

    This is almost comical, because in my first post (#9), I provide a link so you can read Sir Anderon's work. (David, did you read this link? A yes or no would suffice.) That book was where I first saw the idea of what the phrase "heart of the earth" really meant. SRA does not agree with Jack Kelley's hypothesis. He believes in a Friday (15th) crucifixion. This shows either sloppiness or dishonesty on Kelley's part.

    And last (there is probably more, but this should be enough) but not least, he makes the critical assumption that "heart of the earth" means the tomb or grave:

    "Others argue that this view doesn’t permit three full days and three full nights in the tomb but that’s not what the Scripture says. It simply says three days and three nights."

    Nowhere does Jesus or the bible say that the "heart of the earth" is the tomb or grave. Nowhere! This is purely an assumption because it "seems obvious". But we don't need to assume or guess. The bible and Jesus give plenty of examples to see what "earth" really means in parables.

    Some quick examples:

    Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Earth = tomb here? Nope!

    Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Earth = tomb here? Nope

    Eze 14:13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: "land" is same Hebrew word as here: Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

    So we see the bible uses expressions like "land/ earth" sinning, but we know that people sin, not rocks or dirt.

    If people would just keep reading in Matthew, they would see the solution. And this was given the same day.

    Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

    Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it
    So we see the seed is the word and we know that Jesus is the word (John 1)

    Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
    Again, the seed is the word (Jesus)

    Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
    "Ground" is same Greek word as "earth"

    Mar 4:5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
    KYV actually uses "earth" in the parable. So we can see that the type of "earth" has to do with the condition of the heart.

    Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

    Consider this verse: Mar 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

    In other words, if you don't understand the parable of the sower, how are you going to understand any parables which would include the one about Jonah. BTW, Jonah was never dead while in the whale/ fish. Did you ever stop to think about that?

    Richard, if you are lurking, here is a little gem for you, although you probably are already aware of it.

    Mar 4:14 The sower soweth the word. Gematria = 2368 = Jesus Christ. Cool! Jesus is the sower and the seed just like he is the Shepherd and the Lamb.

    Anyway, Roberto, this all is not directed at you personally. Most everyone, including myself have and/ or do assume that "the heart of the earth" = the grave or tomb. It is a common assumption. No big deal. The question is, what will you do when it has been shown from scripture to be a false assumption. The Wed/Thur theories add to, take away from, and twist scriptures to make them fit. The "heart of the earth" = heart of sinful man does none of that and fits perfectly.

    Please spend less than 5 minutes to listen to this podcast about the Jonah sign. http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-li...3-nights..aspx You too, David. I watched your Michael Rood video. He makes the same assumption, earth = tomb.
    Okay, to recap. Let the bible interpret itself and always choose explicit over implicit.

    Jesus never said he would be dead or buried for 3d/3n. Matt 13, Mark 4, and Luke 8 make it clear that earth = heart of man, especially Luke 8:15.

    Jerusalem has a heart. Jer 4:14 O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?

    God puts his name and heart in Jerusalem. 1Ki 9:3 And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.

    The countdown for the 3d/3n does not start with Jesus' death. This is where most people make the first error. Mat 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, Mat 20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

    Mar 10:33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles: Mar 10:34 And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

    Luk 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: Luk 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

    The countdown starts with the betrayal, Thursday night at the Passover meal. Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

    Next comes being handed over in the Garden. This coincides with the angel striking down the firstborn in Egypt so that Israel could be delivered from slavery.

    Then comes the trials and condemnation. Then the mocking and flogging. Then the crucifixion and burial. Side note: Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

    This matches the sacrifices made on the 15th, the day Jesus died. See Lev 4 and Num 28. Why did Jesus say this? Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

    There are so many types of Christ in the OT. The passover lamb is just one of many. Interestly, Hebrews is basically silent concerning that aspect. The mistake many people make with typology is trying to apply every detail to Jesus. This is impossible. The lamb was not beaten. It was not put on a pole like the brass serpent was. It was not burned outside the camp, etc.

    All for now, need to get to bed.

    Steve
    Last edited by Ps 27:1; 05-26-2013 at 07:56 PM.
    May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. Ps 19:14 (NIV)

  9. #19
    Ps 27:1,

    Thanks for the comments, but for the purpose of this topic I'm really only interested in the information asked for in the OP. I probably should have titled the topic "x" days and "x" nights so as not to confuse anyone into thinking it is asking for a discussion about the meaning of Matthew 12:40. As you noted, there are other threads that do that.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    Ps 27:1,

    Thanks for the comments, but for the purpose of this topic I'm really only interested in the information asked for in the OP. I probably should have titled the topic "x" days and "x" nights so as not to confuse anyone into thinking it is asking for a discussion about the meaning of Matthew 12:40. As you noted, there are other threads that do that.

    As I understand you are not a "sixth day crucifixion proponent". Is that right?

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