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  1. #111
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    Hi rstrats,

    Every time (in my readings) that I come to the NT accounts of the resurrection, your thread comes to mind. Previously I said,

    'because it was still Passover when He died (mid-afternoon)'.

    This I wish to revise, because clearly He and the disciples had eaten their Passover meal, sung a hymn and gone to the Garden of Gethsemane on the same 'day'. I am guessing it was evening when He was arrested by an armed company carrying torches.

    Then He spent all night going between the High Priest and Pilate, and ended up being scourged and crucified on the day after Passover.

    They could not ave killed Him on Passover. This also explains why people passing the site of the crucifixion were making longer journeys than a Passover sabbath would have allowed (although it was still the Feast of Unleavened Bread).

    So, if He rose on the 'third day', which was the 'first 'day' of the week', that means (by counting backwards), that He died and was buried before sunset on the fourth 'day' before the day He rose. The period after sunset on the day after Passover would have been the first night, followed by two more day/night cycles, meaning that immediately after the third night, came the third day. That's when He rose.

    It really does not matter whether the first day of the week was a Friday or Saturday or Sunday (as we would name them), as any day of the week could be a sabbath, and Passover was held on the same DATE each year, and that was defined by both the ripeness of the barley and the moon. This begs a question about whether 'the first day of the week' could be altered by the moon's cycle? I have no idea, except that some years had an extra month.

    John 19:31 refers to a 'high day', which was also to be a sabbath, by which time He had to be buried. Does anyone know how we should read 'high day'?

    I am not sure it will make any difference to knowing which 'day of the week' He died or rose or if that even matters. If He had not been 'in the grave for three days and three nights' don't we think that the disciples and women relatives and followers would have mentioned it in their discussions?
    16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

    Ephesians 3

  2. #112
    Point number 5 in post #69 should be changed to read: "To account for the lack of a 3rd night there may be some of those mentioned above who say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language. "

  3. #113
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    Hello all!

    Been a long while since I've posted on the Biblewheel. This was a topic I explained years ago. Without having to get back into the exact details of time/date/year, here is the short version.

    Jesus was arrested on a Tuesday night (actually Wednesday morning per the Hebrew Calendar) and was crucified on Wednesday 30AD. Some have speculated that Jesus was crucified in 33AD, but that year does not work because of the Passover requirements in conjunction with the weekly Sabbath. Jesus fulfilled the passover meal with the Lord's Last Supper with His Disciples. He died I believe by the 3rd hour of the day, which is about 3PM. He had to be taken down from the cross and buried in the tomb before 6PM; Per the Hebrew Calendar, the new day begins at 6PM which was on a Wednesday per our mode of time-keeping, but was actually Thursday night per the Hebrew Calendar when he was placed in the tomb. This began the High Sabbath which lasts approximately 3 to 4 days. He would spend Friday in the tomb, which makes the 2nd day. Saturday was the start of the weekly Sabbath so the women were unable to anoint his body. They were unable to anoint His body on Thursday as well because that was the High Sabbath (Feast of Unleavened Bread). By 6PM Saturday, Jesus is raised (because technically post-6PM started the new evening (Sunday). By the time the ladies visited the tomb Sunday morning, He was already gone.

    Thus Jesus was laid to rest for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as was foretold.

    Hope this helps.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  4. #114
    TheForgiven,
    re: "Thus Jesus was laid to rest for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as was foretold. Hope this helps."

    I'm afraid it doesn't since it's an issue for a different topic.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    TheForgiven,
    re: "Thus Jesus was laid to rest for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as was foretold. Hope this helps."

    I'm afraid it doesn't since it's an issue for a different topic.
    I am interested to understand your objection. But feel free to provide your reasons for the conflict.

    At any rate, Jesus was buried in the tomb on Wednesday 3 April 30AD (14 Nissan 3790 which fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread per the Laws of Moses). The High Sabbath is practiced during this time during the Feast of Unleavened Bread which MUST begin on 15 Nissan (Thursday 30AD): See Leviticus 23. So Jesus spends 15 Nissan (Thursday - which is Wednesday per the Julian Calendar) and this was the High Sabbath. Friday on 16 Nissan the ladies go for supplies for the weekly Sabbath (every Saturday). And finally Saturday (during the weekly Sabbath) Jesus spends the final day in the tomb. By 6PM that evening, which begins the new day (17 Nissan), Jesus is raised from the dead. The women appear that morning with the supplies they purchased the previous Friday (15 Nissan), but Jesus was gone.

    So per the Laws of Moses for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, 14, 15, and 16 Nissan are the days used for the Feast of Unleavened Bread which must last 3 to 4 days.

    Scholars who assume that Jesus died in 33AD are in error because the days required for the Feast of Unleavened Bread do not align correctly. 14 Nissan would have fallen on 1 April 33AD on a Friday. This means that the High Sabbath would have fallen on the weekly Sabbath and would have continued past the beginning of the New Week (Friday 14 Nissan, Saturday 15 Nissan, and Sunday 16 Nissan 33AD). Thus 33AD does not qualify for the fulfillment of the Laws of Moses for the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Therefore, 30AD is the only date Biblically and Judicially possible. Furthermore, per the 70 weeks of seven per Daniel chapter 9, the times align perfectly with the Baptism of Jesus 3.5 years prior to His Passion on the cross, which places His Baptism around 26/27AD, and this begins the final week (7 years) of Daniel's 490 years.

    Jesus begins confirming the covenant after His baptism in 26/27AD, he is then cutoff in the middle of the final week on 3 April 30AD (14 Nissan). The remaining 3.5 years of the final week were spent witnessing to the Jews only; Not the Gentiles. Stephen is stoned by the Jews 3.5 years after the death of Christ, and that is when the Apostles and their followers would be scattered due to persecution by the Pharisees, whereby they began going to the Gentile nations. Thus Daniel's 70 weeks were completed in 33AD. About 2 years later, due to racism being observed by the Jews (mostly Peter), God sends a vision to Peter showing he and his fellow Jews that God had accepted the Gentiles having sent the power of the Holy Spirit without the necessary laying on of the hands by any of the Apostles, upon the House of Cornelius. This also begins the figurative 40 years of wandering in the wilderness while the Church was being built, first to the Jew and then to the Gentile. By 70AD, the wandering had ended, the former wife stoned/burned to death per the laws of Moses, and the Kingdom of Christ (The Israel of God) begins its reign with the goal of filling the entire earth. Thus Christ reigns with His Church through the nations with a Rod. And he blesses those who bless His Church, and curses those who curse His Church.

    Summary:

    Jesus spend 3 literal days and nights in the tomb, thereby fulfilling the Feast of Unleavened Bread as given to Moses under the Law. The first day per the Hebrew Calendar which begins after 6PM on each day was Thursday (Wednesday our time), Friday, and Saturday. Sunday started the new day of the week, which signifies the beginning of a new era; a new world.

    Joe
    Last edited by TheForgiven; 01-25-2020 at 06:14 PM.
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  6. #116
    TheForgiven,
    re: "I am interested to understand your objection."

    This topic is about one issue and only one issue, i.e., the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    TheForgiven,
    re: "I am interested to understand your objection."

    This topic is about one issue and only one issue, i.e., the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.
    If I understand your hypothesis correctly, you believe it is possible that the 3 days and 3 nights are not to be taken at numerical value, i.e. 3 days only, or 3 nights only, or something along those lines. I'd have to first ask why you would feel such a fulfillment would be possible or even warranted? If the scripture specifically states below:

    Matthew 12:40 New King James Version

    40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


    When then would the text specifically mention 3 days and 3 nights?

    In the book of Genesis, we are all familiar with the phrase, "Evening, and morning, the first day". Hence a day in the bible is referred to as a time-span of an night and a day. An evening per the Hebrew Calendar began after 6PM and ended around 6AM when the dawn (sunrise) approached.

    7PM Eastern Standard time from the Grecian time-span is still the same day, which ends at midnight. So for example, Tuesday 7PM remains Tuesday until midnight, which transitions into Wednesday 0001 hours. But in the Hebrew Calendar which is based on Lunar rotations around the earth corresponding to its sunlight reflection degree/amount, the new day begins after 6PM each day. Therefore, when the text in Matthew states, "three days and three nights", the new day begins after 6PM.

    For the record, Jesus was buried in the tomb shortly before 6PM on a Wednesday 3 April 30AD (14 Nissan) which also began the High Sabbath as part of the Feast of Unleavened Bread which lasts for 2 to 3 days. From there we count exactly 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb beginning Thursday 15 Nissan post 6PM, Friday 16 Nissan, and finally Saturday 17 Nissan until 6PM. He was raised from the dead on 18 Nissan Sunday (7 April 30AD). When 17 Nissan (or Sunday) began to dawn early that morning, the women came to the tomb and realized He was gone.

    (Note: Each Hebrew day begins at 6PM around sunset)

    Wednesday - 14 Nissan 3 April 30AD (Jesus taken down from cross before 6PM as the High Sabbath started after 6PM)
    Thursday - 15 Nissan 4 April 30AD (Jesus Buried) - First Day
    Friday - 16 Nissan 5 April 30AD (Jesus Buried) - Second Day
    Saturday - 17 Nissan 6 April 30AD (Jesus Buried) - Third/last Day
    Sunday - 18 Nissan 7 April 30AD (Jesus resurrected)

    Therefore, 3 literal days/nights were spent in the tomb just as Jesus foretold about Jonah, as denoted in Matthew 12:40.

    So then, let's review the story of Jonah. How long did Jonah spend in the belly of the whale?

    Jonah 1:

    17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.


    Thus we see that Jesus was to spend 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb, just as Jonah spent 3 days and 3 nights in the whale. Therefore, I cannot see any reason to interpret the text other than its literally time-specificity. Why not simply say, "3 days"? That is because we define a day from midnight to midnight = 24 hours. But the Hebrew days were not defined as a 24 hour period; their days were defined as the amount of sunshine phase based on the Moon. They define night based on the lack of sunshine until the dawn. Thus from a Grecian Calendar perspective, the night time begins around 6PM and ends around 6AM. But keep in mind that the day and night time hours differed from season to season.

    At any rate, 3 literal days and 3 literal nights were spent by Jesus in the tomb, or by Jonah in the whale.

    Joe
    Last edited by TheForgiven; 01-26-2020 at 11:16 AM.
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

  8. #118
    TheForgiven,
    re: "If I understand your hypothesis correctly, you believe it is possible that the 3 days and 3 nights are not to be taken at numerical value, i.e. 3 days only, or 3 nights only, or something along those lines."

    It appears that you don't.

    1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".

    2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

    3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

    4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.

    5. To account for the discrepancy, there maybe some of those above who say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

    6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.

    I simply wonder if anyone knows of examples to support the idea of commonality?

  9. #119
    TheForgiven,
    re: "For the record, Jesus was buried in the tomb shortly before 6PM on a Wednesday..."

    re: "Wednesday - 14 Nissan 3 April 30AD (Jesus taken down from cross before 6PM as the High Sabbath started after 6PM)"
    "Thursday - 15 Nissan 4 April 30AD (Jesus Buried) - First Day"
    "Friday - 16 Nissan 5 April 30AD (Jesus Buried) - Second Day"
    "Saturday - 17 Nissan 6 April 30AD (Jesus Buried) - Third/last Day"
    "Sunday - 18 Nissan 7 April 30AD (Jesus resurrected)"

    That would mean that 5 calendar days were involved in the tomb, along with 4 night times and at least 4 daytimes.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    TheForgiven,
    re: "For the record, Jesus was buried in the tomb shortly before 6PM on a Wednesday..."

    re: "Wednesday - 14 Nissan 3 April 30AD (Jesus taken down from cross before 6PM as the High Sabbath started after 6PM)"
    "Thursday - 15 Nissan 4 April 30AD (Jesus Buried) - First Day"
    "Friday - 16 Nissan 5 April 30AD (Jesus Buried) - Second Day"
    "Saturday - 17 Nissan 6 April 30AD (Jesus Buried) - Third/last Day"
    "Sunday - 18 Nissan 7 April 30AD (Jesus resurrected)"

    That would mean that 5 calendar days were involved in the tomb, along with 4 night times and at least 4 daytimes.
    I'm a little confused as to how you arrived with 5 calendar days. Remember, the Hebrew Calendar is based on evenings and mornings, and it's annual cycles are Lunar based; no solar. So just to clarify again, let's recap.

    Jesus was taken down off the cross before 6PM on Wednesday because Thursday began at 6:01PM and that was the start of the High Sabbath. And as with the weekly Sabbath, no work was permitted. Thus the High Sabbath began at 6:01PM on Thursday (which is actually Wednesday per our 24 hour period since Thursday according to our Calendar would not begin until midnight). So it looks like this per the Hebrew Calendar:

    1. Thursday - 1st Evening and and morning that ended at 6:00PM at the end of the Day
    2. Friday - 2nd Evening and morning that ended at 6:00PM at the end of the Day
    3. Saturday - 3rd Evening and morning that ended at 6:00PM at the end of the day
    4. Sunday - Resurrected (keep in mind that Sunday started at 6PM on Saturday our time (Grecian Calendar).

    The Hebrew day always begins with the evening, and then morning, and ends at sunset, most often time at the 6th hour of the day. Our days end at midnight; Hebrew days end at 6PM.

    So as you can see, there were 3 literal evenings and 3 literal mornings (constituting a 24 hour Hebrew day) that Jesus spent in the tomb.

    Joe
    Israel is more than just a race; it is more than just a nation; it is the people of God, from faith, by faith, and only faith. Those who assemble in the name of Christ Jesus, embrance Israel because they are Israel

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