Hello Timmy
In coming back to this thread, I see that I replied to Charisma before replying to you. I have not seen you posting of late and expect you are busy with your projects. You have given me a long post and I shall try to be brief. There will be adequate time to go over everything again as we correspond in future threads. I will comment of a few things.
Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Hello again "David M.",

You might think considerations here concerning the ways and means you operate is unfounded and perchance wonder why there really is little rebuttal.

In response, you exhibit a most profound ignorance and rather than owning up to this fact. In your own foolish satanic pride displaying unquestionable logical fallacy, you prove to your selfs that you are a legend in your own mind. A majority of onlookers see your will and ways extremely different than you do.

Several here have attempted to explain to you your erroroneous ways. Only a few of these compatriots here--that immediately come to mind in this regard--are:
--Rose
--Charisma
--silence
--Mystical
--L67
--Psalm 27.1
--Heb. 13.13
--Bob May

Your assumption that Richard and myself are so much like one another has now been shown to you to not be the case at all...so drop it. In fact quit comparing people to other persons as though they could somehow be the same.
Maybe I have had mixed signals from you. At one time, I thought you were closely in agreement with me about some things and I saw you as not agreeing with Richard. My opinion has changed recently. I will continue to accept that you have much with Richard to disagree about. As for the others, they belong more or less to the same camp. it is not surprising they have a similar message. I am in the minority on this forum. That is OK. Those who spoke for God were also in the minority. I do not claim to be better than anyone. I oppose what I think is false and what the Bible states as false. All we have to do is find agreement on what is false.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
On the other hand, to identify an ideological fallacy you have chosen to own and promote, whether Rood or your favorite kultus is not unjustified in consideration as you have proven no differently. Besides, a label is only a label, and yet if the shoe fits, wear it.
I am not going to wear your shoes from what you have said so far. Unless, I see a change of mind in you, I doubt you can change my mind. I am letting the word of God change my mind for the better.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Why in the face of truths and facts you spit on, why oh why do you instead delude yourself further????
You have not presented me with facts. I exposed the false logic in your statements. You hold on to that type of reasoning, and do not appear to be accepting any other possibility. Why expect from others, what you are not prepared to do?

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Instead of being grateful to all who have wasted alot of time trying to reason with your lack of reason, you instead seem to act as if everyone is just out to get you, which is hardly the case...but you continue to put yourself on display; and yet, one fact recognizable of this forum is that once we make our voice heard, it is open season: sometimes quaint, sometimes nice, sometimes blunt, sometimes sarcastically or with cynicism. YET, there will be investigative analysis picking through whatever ambiguity that appears to hold inconsistency to each of us from our own perspectives.
OK, I express my appreciation now. I do not think I have received much appreciation from those you list in return for the long explanations I have given.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Nobody here has your demise in mind ...and several of us are praying for y'all.
Thank you. I wish the same for you. There is an irony. It is like the Chaplins for opposing armies thinking God is on their side when if fact, God is on neither of their sides. I hold everything you and everyone else says up against God's word.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Reading your post to Richard that he has given such prominence out from "Why I Quit Christianity" says alot about the undercurrents behind many of your considerations, as well as priorities. For me, it cuts to the heart of where you presently stand in approach, attitude, and demeanor.
In fact, a bit more heart to heart would be appreciated (here at least) instead of all the promotion of what you say you consider to be absolute. It is not an issue of disparity noted in these things so much as if we will be learning to recognize these things as they exist and will find the way to move forward beyond what is recognized as blind faith and beliefs that hold no substance throughout our real world experiences.
We can all be accused of being passionate about what we think/believe. My passion comes across as arrogance and I am sorry about that. At least, my passion has not resorted to verbal abuse that has come from you.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
You might think me mean and you are entitled to this; but, you do not see things from this perspective even as I do not clearly see your paradigm or world view through those glasses.
We have to carry on reasoning. We are not finished by a long way on any one subject. I await your tome to convince me that Jesus is God. That is the subject of another thread; 'Jesus is not God'.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Granted, you could probably find several inconsistencies in my own reasoning...without having the full picture, and yet you have failed to show this though you could have. Remember, we are now talking about disambiguation...and alot of times things are intentionally left open-ended or made to seem without reason by the Timmy for the sake of further examination of my own inconsistencies.
I will wait for the full picture from you. You do not know that I have finished presenting the full picture. I have for example a list taken from another website listing 200 reasons why Jesus is not God. That is for the other thread.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Still...instead of gratefulness for the mercy and grace our Happy Host has ceaselessly showed us both, why are you so insistent that many of the things you promote make little if any sense at all when exposed to the light of cogent facts????? You are beginning to prove yourself a hopeless conflagration onto yourself. Have you ever just sat down and considered how much time Richard alone has burned on you, only for you to smack him back with logical fallacy ad infinitum?
Not while I am still exposing the contradictions Richard makes and have reason not to agree with him. It could be a never-ending discussion with any of us, so long as we keep bringing new reasons to the table.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Indeed “Wisdom is the principle thing”, and yet your own insistent negations of sensible logical reasoning belie the beliefs you think somehow people who are thoroughly prepared to give an answer from our own perspectives are somehow going to buy into that?

...so do not even wonder why you are seen to exhibit the characteristics of both troll and shill.

...What persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
II Timothy 3.11b-17

It is desired that you will consider the above words in bold without any self justifications, even though this is a strong tendency for all of us manimals to do. It is also asked you consider the comments Charis posted toward your own well being.
Charisma does not come over to begin with as appearing to have my well-being in consideration. It is in all of our interest to keep reasoning and for all to change as the truth is revealed. The truth does not change even though we cannot agree what it is.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
It is one thing to be renounced and defamed for Faith in Y'shua and another altogether to be denounced for unreasonability.
It is reasonable not to bow down to Satan, the Devil or the Serpent, unless you happen to be one of them. I am not unreasonable in the sight of God not to comply with the Devil.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
You have yet to show any sound cogent reasoning, deceived darling dolly diva deludedly thinking any can find your vain imaginings to be anything worthwhile.
I have done so, and you have not responded in the same way. You can prove yourself correct or otherwise when you give full explanation.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
For all the hubbub of your saying stupid stuff like "this discussion is over", no matter the whatnots and wherefores, you seem to appear to have somehow become hooked into reading what travels from inside of me and through these fingertips into our beloved B.W.F.A.™.
Why is is stupid when the stupidity or insaneness is to keep going around in circles expecting a different result?

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
...and in a roundabout answer to that question once troubling you about the Timmy, it is best to forget it.
Richard's posting and placing the song by Kansas, "Carry On My Wayward Son" will tell you oh so much about me in far fewer words than any discursions of mental meanderings Timmy is prone to lose everyone in, including hir selfs.
OK. I cannot remember the question.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
You have once again focused on the issues surrounding the premise and not accounting yourself to what is proposed--(kind of like knowing you are going to burn in hell but fail to do anything to alter that. The burning in hell is the result and not the cause of completely defying His revelation of who He is so that you can Know Him as He is and not merely some imagined reasoning about Him).

So, first comes the answer to your query, and then what is actually meant and intended in that brief statement can be clarified for your own benefit.

Nobody on earth has the same knowledge, and receptivity to environmental stimuli foreshadows perception, perspective onto retention. So, your response in that first statement is saying very little and actually sounds like an excuse of resignation.

How do I consider myself to have a clearer picture? I really am not sure that I do, but I know the one who does; and in this Tanakh reveals I am becoming wiser than all my teachers through nothing I have done except continue to memorize and meditate in The Torah from Eloheinu: when I arise and when I go to sleep, when I sit down and when I stand up, when I am thinking about something in particular and when I am not, when I speak and when I remain silent, when I pray and when I take care of all other secondary responsibilities, when I am busy and when I relax, Etc. Etc. Etc...and the proof is in the pudding: real world results as promised in the Holy Scriptures, beginning with deepening relationship with Yaweh, and benefits to everyone about me who blesses and will not curse me.

Rationalization comes from rational thought, and in the scriptures this is understood as the first part of, and parceled within the factors composing wickedness. Without God's thoughts directing any reasoning, only leads to transgression against God and ultimately results in death. Let me tell you, I see this very thing very clearly from my own life experiences, and yet this has arrived only after years expended seeking God's face. So, let the worldly wise babble on with however any consider the supposed voice of intellectual, reason, or rationale; because to Elohim it is all foolishness: ashes to ashes and dust in the wind.
I am not saying that I have personal experience like you, I will let someone else who has, disagree with you about how they see things differently to you.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
There is no mutual ground of understanding where another cannot even understand to receive, or is that receive to understand?
Are you saying that you cannot get a person to understand if they do not want to understand? I am listening to your reasoning, but you cannot expect me to accept it blindly.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
You will probably continue to reason (not from, but) about the scriptures, and yet I persist in learning how to better and better relate with Yah on His terms. Our motives and practices are entirely in opposition to one another. I am trying to get closer to Him and you remain distanced. I shall not back down and I shall not sit idly by when another fellow human being is observed to be destroying themselves on the highway to hell, for Jesus the Christ who shall raise up every human and judge them according to what they have done in regard to Him judges rightly...and His word reveals the fate of receivers who are deceived as you.
God's terms are written in his word. It cannot be of any private interpretation. To say it is, is the reason for all the many different religions and confusion to those on the outside (and within).

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
"David M.", in all truth, there are only two religions in the world, so it really does matter what anyone is identified with when God of Heaven and Earth is secondarily relative to whatever the label is of those teachings and reasonings.
I am not putting God second. I refuse to be labelled for then you judge me according to the label. The only cult figure we should follow is Jesus.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Have you ever stopped to think that the Apostles have referred to Tanakh in different places of the Ha'B'rit Hadasha (NT) as “the word of Kurios/the Lord/God"?

This fact signifies the palpability of experiencing Y'shua in our lives in relating with Him on His terms in that the whole Bible is for the sole purpose of revealing Himself to us in every aspect of His beingness, so that whoever remains trusting Him (as He reveals Himself to be) shall never perish.

Even as His Spirit--this spirit of God--is the same yesterday, right now, and forever, even so Jesus, the very person behind this spirit is the same: Hebrews 13.8.

Those two religions can be summarized as follows:
1) What man attempts to do to appease and relate with whoever or whatever they consider God, be that themselves, their reasoning, or any type of sectarianism whether kultic or supposedly xian;
&
2) What God has done for us to be received through experiencing the life, death, and resurrection of Y'shua Ha'Mashiach by coming into identification with Him in thought, word, and deed.

It is either a matter of expecting God to operate on your terms which never becomes anything but an imaginary experience at best...or...coming into a familial relationship with God on His terms and this growing relationship within Him fulfills every facet of our existence.[/color]

The quoted statements from Timmy were epitomizing your own informal, formal and inductive fallacies you espouse, particularly "cherry picking" and "straw man" argumentation (inductive) and your tendency to skirt the issues (informal), yet you often begin with unrelated generalizations (formal) ignoring the premise for the discussion/debate in the first place.

As stated, those games are over, so examine what you say before writing whatever you claim, or it more than likely shall be met with complete silence as it deserves.
Silence from you might be the better option. I have read the verses many times which you have quoted and I think about them often. I let the word of God mould me into the character he would like. The progress might be slow, but God is long-suffering. What I am not able to acheive by the time of my death, I have confidence God will correct, when granting immortality.

Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Little mention has been made of your most deceptive fallacies of exclusion though.

If a person cannot handle the Law of Non-Contradiction, it appears useless--as you have proven in the thread that denies Jesus is God--to attempt further understanding how x=y even though the outward appearance of these two factors seem not to be similar.[/color]
I am directed to the Law of non-Contradiction and what is the first thing I read; the difficult arises from the ambiguity in the suppositions. The ambiguity is the cause of the argument.


Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Later maybe,

Þ.Œ.

p.s. Have you considered posting in the "Street Epistemology" thread and see how you fare there?
...and BTW, the Bereans based all their understanding of Scripture on other Scripture, not anywhere near what you have done and do, basing what you assume the Bible should mean because of sources that are nowhere near Biblical text. (There will be hell to atone for your misdeeds because you fail to admit or receive what God says exists FOR YOU by His Word, Y'shua Ha'Mashiach.)
So are you saying that the ancient Hebrew scriptures which make up the Old Testament are not sufficient? Has not God revealed to us all that is sufficient to know? We have the texts Jesus was referring to, when he said; "It is written.." Maybe we should start by agreeing what Jesus believed.

Shalom
David