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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Salvation, spirit, flesh, AND soul.

    "Anyway, this mistake of thinking we are spirit appears more prevalent in writings after 400 A.D., and has perpetually more prominent in the passage of time."

    Time for a Bible lesson and a complete one.

    Ok there are two main divisions of denominilatist salvation parties.
    One is faith alone all can have salvation. The other is works alone or specific works no faith(or varieing degrees of it)

    I’d make a big deal of Ga 2:16 and Ep 2:8,9 if I wanted you to believe in salvation by faith alone (don’t look them up now; we’ll get to them). But if I wanted you to believe in salvation by works, I’d harp on Ja 2:14,17,21,24,26. In both cases I’d either ignore the contradicting verses or get you to ignore them with a bag of tricks that includes clichés, ridicule, and misapplication of Scripture such as, “They’re just trying to take away from what Christ did on the cross! But I wanna tell you what, brother, the Bible says ‘It is finished’, I believe it, and that settles it! Amen?!”
    The problem is, because people don’t believe and apply everything in the Bible, they never let the presence of verses that apparently contradict their doctrine cause them to search the Scriptures for God’s truth that never contradicts any verses. Both of the above sets of verses are correct. That means both doctrines are incorrect. I’m going to begin by telling you what I believe so you can get any ridicule out of your system now. That way you can pay better attention when we get to the Scriptures.
    I believe salvation is a two step process, I like to call it part a and part b.

    Part a is the born again spirit, most denominations beleive you receive that spirit with a "sinners prayer" other beleive you receive it by works.

    The sinners prayer (Luke 18:10-14) most preachers say you need to pray to produce "saving faith" was said in the temple (v10) therefore the sinners prayer was directed towards the already saved. The unsaved heathen were not alowed in the temple.

    All of them agree the second birth (born again) happens by some method of our will (saving faith or works). They are wrong there isint a place in the Bible that says we receive it any other way.

    When I was physically born did I have a choice? No I simply was born and the same applies to the second birth.
    Paul was separated from his womb.
    Galations 1:15 KJV
    "But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace"

    So was Christ
    Luke 1:15 KJV
    "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb"

    So we get the second birth by grace God selects us to be his children no different then when our parents chose to give physical birth. They choose not us, God chooses not us.

    So we do or don't have the second birth what of it.

    God gives the second birth to people so they may have faith and be saved

    1 Corinthians 2:13-15
    "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man"

    True faith

    Hebrews 11:6 KJV

    "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him"

    John 6:44 KJV
    "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day"

    John 6:65 KJV
    "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father"

    So we get chosen by God to have a second birth that we may then have faith. What use of it? Well the unsaved will not have the war rage of two bodies (Romans 7:15-25 KJV) they can't have the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23 KJV) they definitely cannot be qualified for eternal life.

    Statement only the unsaved go to hell right? Wrong that's unbiblical no where in the Bible is there an example of the unregenerative unqualified heathen entering a everlasting hell or everlasting heaven. They don't have a spirit. They are emnity against God(Romans 8:7-8 KJV)

    Lets find out who goes to hell and why.

    Psalms 9:17 KJV
    "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God"

    So the "wicked" whom forget God will go to hell. You can't forget something you never knew.

    Jeremiah 13:25 KJV
    "This is thy lot, the portion of thy measures from me, saith the LORD; because thou hast forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood."

    So the wicked forget and trust in falsehood.
    What are the wicked?

    Hebrews 10:26 KJV
    "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

    That is the wicked forget the atonement at the cross.

    What happened at the cross?

    The Lamb died and his blood was poured out for the forgiveness of sins.
    Romans 5:8-10 KJV
    "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life"

    So redemption we get through the blood of Christ by repentance.

    Acts 8:22 KJV
    "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee"

    Jesus guide on prayer
    Matthew 6:9-13 KJV
    "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses"

    Ok so our parents give us our flesh body(which is dammed to the grave Genesis 3:19,22) God gave us a spirit more specifically a spirit body

    1 Corinthians 15:44 KJV
    "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body"

    So question time.

    Is the spirit body like our physical body?
    We get birthed unwillingly. Yet do we have a free-will? I learned as I am growing I have a very free will to disobey my parents.
    We also have a very free will to disobey God and sin. The results of disobedience, both cases we are punished or chastised.
    We could go into law at this point that would take too long.

    So do we need to feed the spirit body? Yes by the flesh and blood of Christ (the word of God that is)

    John 4:34 KJV
    "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work"

    If we don't study and feed the spirit God will send leaness into our souls

    Psalms 106:13-15
    "They soon forgat his works; they waited not for his counsel: But lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert. And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul"

    Wait isint the soul the same as the spirit? Nope tradition and Greek philosophy has done its way with the church.

    Humans have souls.
    Genesis 2:7 KJV
    "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

    Ok some dumbasses will insert words into God's mouth at this point and say "breath of life" was his oxygen. The breath of life was his soul he got his lungs with the dust body. And plants already existed so he had oxygen.

    Animals have souls.

    Genesis 6:17 KJV
    "And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die"

    Genesis 7:21-22 KJV
    "And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died"

    So animals have souls and so do we what of it?

    Well in God's eyes we are equal to them

    Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 KJV
    "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again"

    Your guys personal arguement was that we are no different from animals your right physically. But spiritual they never have had spirit bodies nor fruits of the Spirit.

    More on spirit bodies. Do they die like our physical bodies no.
    Luke 20:36 KJV
    "Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection"

    Why does God mention death then or the second death?

    Lets explore that first flesh and blood does not get into heaven nor hell
    1 Corinthians 15:50 KJV
    "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption"

    So flesh bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

    Revelation 20:13-15 KJV
    "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. "

    Wait wait wait God said spirit bodied people cannot die.

    Revelation 20:10 KJV
    "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever"

    2 Thessalonians 1:9 KJV
    "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"

    We must accept death for a spirit as a synonym for destruction and tormention.

    Hebrews 6:2 KJV
    "Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment"

    Yes there is an eternal judgement for you naysayers.

    Ok there are some of you who still doubt there is a difference between a body, soul.
    And spirit body, body, soul.

    Lets implore on dogs

    Biblically dogs is not a cute term for cuddly puppies as most creatures make it out to be.
    It's the unsaved, unregenerative, heathen without spirit

    Galatians 4:22-23 KJV
    "For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. "

    So the promise is a synonym for the spirit body not the flesh body.

    So in Egypt appropriately enough
    Exodus 11:7 KJV
    "But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel"

    Woah so men = Israel (God's spirit bodied children) beasts = animals. dog can only be Egyptians or unsaved without spirit.

    Wasent it mean of God to eternal Dam the pharoh and harden his heart? Nope the pharoh isint danned he is physically dead with no spirit to preserve his soul forever. it's only evil for God to have done so if its evil for us to kill animals.

    Exodus 9:16 KJV
    "And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth"

    God explicitly used pharoh to glorify His name and show His power to the Israelites.

    Revelation 22:15 KJV
    "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie"

    dogs the unsaved heathen!

    Psalms 22:16 KJV
    "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet"

    dogs are different the the wicked! we dont even see dogs as a people
    Romans 10:19 KJV
    "But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you"

    Any questions, statements, challenges, or objections? For the sake if edification that is.
    "There is nothing but shame to be gained by willfully holding to false opinions!"
    How true.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Wow those fornificating cheaters!

    Few(alot) of verses come to mind like this parable.

    Matthew 13:3-9 KJV
    "And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

    Those ears he was talking about they were not physical they are spiritual.

    And Richard specifically this is why God does things the way He does.

    Matthew 13:10-17 KJV
    "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. "

    "This is why – or rather how – I became a Christian. I didn’t “choose” it at all. It felt more like waking up and realizing what I was. Knowledge of Christ felt innate to my soul. It was the joy of my life for well over a decade. It was not something I could choose to take or leave. I used to say I felt like a pot of dirt in which God planted a seed, and it was the seed that sprouted. I had nothing to do with it really. And I feel the same way now that I reject the Christian faith. It’s not really a choice – it’s more of a realization. A person cannot choose what to believe. We believe what we believe for a complex set of reasons, most of which are well beyond our own conscious control."

    Accurate statement of the seed that got caught in thorns.

    Last edited by Funky1096; 03-04-2013 at 10:28 PM.
    "There is nothing but shame to be gained by willfully holding to false opinions!"
    How true.

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