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  1. #1
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    How Beliefs Resist Change - Christianity and Cognitive Science

    This is an extremely enlightening series. I just listened to the sixth episode:



    I'm posting this episode today because it reveals the psychology of how people protect themselves and their delusions from reality. This is quite relevant because we have two threads right now where we can see these psychological factors, such as cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias, in action. I'm talking about this thread where the King James Bible is being presented as the one and only "true" Bible and this thread where random number patterns are taken as proof of the divine inspiration of the Torah.

    I would like to know what Christians think about the video. Does it teach legitimate methods to avoid delusion? Should everyone follow the advice in the video?

    If everyone followed the advice in the video, is there any religion that would stand? Or do all religions fall together? Are they all delusional?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  2. #2
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    I did not enjoy listening to this video.
    Not only was it very conviction challenging but it also reveals you turning into a hypocrite after having very little to continue attacking me with.

    I find it very useful for my personal life listening and comparing outside sources against the Bible especially when those sources themselves use the Bible. Unless what the Bible said is in true contradiction against said outside source.
    For example did you know the Bible says rabbits chew cud?
    Leviticus 11:6 KJV
    "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. "

    Thousand or two years ago Christians would be laughed at by "unbeleivers" who "knew" rabbits don't have cud.

    Check a rabbit care book 20 or so years ago it says through their shit away.
    Now a days books say keep it the first time since they reconsume it for nutritious noodles.
    "There is nothing but shame to be gained by willfully holding to false opinions!"
    How true.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky1096 View Post
    I did not enjoy listening to this video.
    Not only was it very conviction challenging but it also reveals you turning into a hypocrite after having very little to continue attacking me with.
    I thought the video was great and full of insight into how folks delude themselves. I loved it. We're all in the same boat. We must pursue truth, not delusion.

    What did I say that makes you think I'm "turning into a hypocrite"?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  4. #4
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    "What did I say that makes you think I'm "turning into a hypocrite"?"

    The attitude your taking towards the Bible verses I posted in that thread.

    Yes saying "KJV is the only version you can use" is unbiblical but using every other version that I'm aware of is also unbiblical.
    "There is nothing but shame to be gained by willfully holding to false opinions!"
    How true.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky1096 View Post
    "What did I say that makes you think I'm "turning into a hypocrite"?"

    The attitude your taking towards the Bible verses I posted in that thread.

    Yes saying "KJV is the only version you can use" is unbiblical but using every other version that I'm aware of is also unbiblical.
    But why do you say it is "hypocritical"? I'm not holding you to standards different from my own or pretending to be something I'm not (that's the definition of hypocrite).

    I'm being perfectly honest and straightforward, telling you what I really believe. Where's the hypocrisy in that?
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  6. #6
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    Let me rephrase all of that.
    You apperently are so carnal that you can't tell faith from knowing.
    You also seem to lack spiritual discernment when I show you Bible verses proving there is only one version that could possible be the Bible and you attack, reject, and emotionally drive me away from the Bible. That ain't Christian and I have yet to see any real spirits in this board in terms of belief.

    Luke 6:42 KJV
    "Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. "
    Me getting that mote out with the 2 kings and 2 chronicles verses. You not getting over what a version is as defined by the Bible and still with beam in your own eye.
    "There is nothing but shame to be gained by willfully holding to false opinions!"
    How true.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    This is an extremely enlightening series. I just listened to the sixth episode:



    I would like to know what Christians think about the video. Does it teach legitimate methods to avoid delusion? Should everyone follow the advice in the video?

    If everyone followed the advice in the video, is there any religion that would stand? Or do all religions fall together? Are they all delusional?
    Ohyeah, Richard.

    Tonight i has a big bwight wed koowaid smy-yi-l.

    Sewiouswy?
    WEDNECKZ WOCK!!!


    No serioisly, i think we need to look up the definition of religion, and i am pretty sure you are familiar with "Magick w/o Tears"...no?

    "...religere vs negligense....hunh?


    Ok, how about my own defn.?
    Science, government, psychology, demonations, etc=any institution(alisation) that has adherants espousing ideas that are thought to be laws, adherants ofnwhich live by those ideas to the exclusion or persecution ((cognitive)dissonance) against anything that contradicts these belie ed "laws" adhered to.

    How's that?

    You ready for a bit of conceptual badminton freund?

    Here's the volley:

    The video sucks and is infantile in it's rudimentary misconceptions of what really happens at the subliminal level.

    Ok, so the shuttlecock was just smashed line-drive like to go over the net, but nearly straight up in the air...

    So i will propose something relative to the first brilliant comment before you have opportunity to return volley:

    I do not think most people have a spinal chord that comes close to even touching their brain...and what does the wife's sig line say? Never trust what?


    I'm ready for whatever xomes baxk at me...

    or not

    [hint: there is a majorly huge missing element that should be considered inn relation to cognitive bias and dissonance that the video fails to address,--and this in itself BTW--is the very thing this video maker is doing as an example of this missing element]

    All in all, the video is kind of correct with this primer. Are there other vids relative before this one, or does this author miss it all together?


    Timmy
    The mind grows by taking in
    :Mesiras Nefesh:
    THE HEART GROWS BY GIVING OUT

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky1096 View Post
    Let me rephrase all of that.
    You apperently are so carnal that you can't tell faith from knowing.
    Apparently, you are so naive that you think that anything you happen to believe is true.

    So Islam is true because Muslims believe it by faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Funky1096 View Post
    You also seem to lack spiritual discernment when I show you Bible verses proving there is only one version that could possible be the Bible and you attack, reject, and emotionally drive me away from the Bible. That ain't Christian and I have yet to see any real spirits in this board in terms of belief.
    You have not shown me any Bible verse that says there is only one version. The Bible doesn't say a word about "versions." Your comment is therefore false.

    There are a few stallwart believers still hanging around. Most leave when there errors are exposed. It seems that believers prefer delusion over truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funky1096 View Post
    Luke 6:42 KJV
    "Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. "
    Me getting that mote out with the 2 kings and 2 chronicles verses. You not getting over what a version is as defined by the Bible and still with beam in your own eye.
    Please quote the verse in the Bible that talks about "Bible versions."
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Ohyeah, Richard.

    Tonight i has a big bwight wed koowaid smy-yi-l.

    Sewiouswy?
    WEDNECKZ WOCK!!!


    No serioisly, i think we need to look up the definition of religion, and i am pretty sure you are familiar with "Magick w/o Tears"...no?

    "...religere vs negligense....hunh?
    Hey there Timmy,

    I read that book many years ago, but don't remember much of it right now. How is it relevant?

    Meanwhile, the point of the video is that folks tend to fall into delusions but no one WANTS to be deluded. So why are they so insistent on using DELUSIONAL logic to support their religion? Can't they see that delusional logic leads to delusion? What's really going on? What's keeping their minds trapped?

    What does WEDNECKZ WOCK!!! mean? Today's Friday.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Ok, how about my own defn.?
    Science, government, psychology, demonations, etc=any institution(alisation) that has adherants espousing ideas that are thought to be laws, adherants ofnwhich live by those ideas to the exclusion or persecution ((cognitive)dissonance) against anything that contradicts these belie ed "laws" adhered to.

    How's that?
    Not so good really. It mixes the good with the bad. Science is institutionalized skepticism. Religion is institutionalized delusion. It's absurd to list them together. They are opposites.

    Yes, I know that science can be corrupted and become like religion, but that's not the issue we're discussing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    You ready for a bit of conceptual badminton freund?

    Here's the volley:

    The video sucks and is infantile in it's rudimentary misconceptions of what really happens at the subliminal level.
    You'll have to elaborate. What was "infantile"? What "rudimentary misconceptions" does it contain. What "really happens" on the "subliminal level"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Ok, so the shuttlecock was just smashed line-drive like to go over the net, but nearly straight up in the air...

    So i will propose something relative to the first brilliant comment before you have opportunity to return volley:

    I do not think most people have a spinal chord that comes close to even touching their brain...and what does the wife's sig line say? Never trust what?
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question.

    How is that relevant to our conversation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    I'm ready for whatever xomes baxk at me...

    or not

    [hint: there is a majorly huge missing element that should be considered inn relation to cognitive bias and dissonance that the video fails to address,--and this in itself BTW--is the very thing this video maker is doing as an example of this missing element]

    All in all, the video is kind of correct with this primer. Are there other vids relative before this one, or does this author miss it all together?


    Timmy
    I look forward to your elaboration on the problems in the video. As yet, you have only said that there are problems but have failed to say what they are.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  10. #10
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    Question

    Hoyoh Richardo

    The reference that book by Phoenix was summarised in the french words "religious vs negligence"
    So, you will have to show me how science and scepticism against anything not proven by its method did not replace your belief if it is not a religion as you claim.

    A woman within three decades past the advent of the twentieth century wrote a book in her study of psychology pinpoints what i failed to address, and instead just hinted about. I do not know if it is easy to come by presently, however when i obtained it, i had to "jump through alot of hoops" just to get my copy. Violet Firth, penname Dion Fortune, also published as similar work, but far less explicitly detailed (and three chapters less covering other things) available to the general public called, "Machinery of the Mind."

    The main point is this, it really does not matter what a person believes about anything, because when it comes down to being a matter of life or death, cognitive disonance is not the issue...it is secondary to whatever it takes to survive. Cognitive Disonance and "Tribal Informational Boundaries" and all that other bat guano becomes irrelevant and arbitrary when anyone realises death could come knocking in the next breath...and that is the infantile failure of the video.

    When it comes right down to induced chaos, a human will befriend a Tasmanian Devil or a Screaming Banshee if they see a better possibilty of living just a moment longer through natural qwild enemy. Until a person recognises that every choice that is made--and most people make over 6,000 eaxh day--is directly related to life or death, whether scientific sceptic or adherent to some other belief system besides science (or materialism FTM), a person thinks they can afford CD...but at what price, if not ultimately our last breath?

    After we know we are living, spinal chord attached, then we all exhibit CD in varied measure over every issue in life.

    cognitive disonance--one of those things mind "sciences" think they discovered, but often times before psychology gave a special name to something that already existed, it was called things like heresy, lies, deception, mysticism, hermetics, selfdeception, close-minded, death by lethal injection, the firing squad, selfharming, none-compliance, traitor, rebellion, and so on and on and on--Point is, there is a wide gamut to world views and just because someone may not have the view of the culture they find themselves in, does that qualify them as having cognitive bias???

    What if the one claiming the other to be cognitively biased/dissonant is actually pointing the finger at their self? Aren't you the one who so often so quickly pulls up Romans 2.1 when you are putting judgements baxk in the face of whoever the xian perp is? What about Matthew 7.1-?? ?

    You know how it works, when i point my finger at you, there are three pointing back at me.

    What about Roses quote i love so much?

    Under the moniker of znujeeL~ on the Zeelist, i loved to play this very game, andnso i would write, before any "impulse from the realm of quantum flux was delivered through the ætherspheres," i would write:

    ...Question everything...
    And in all thy questioning
    Question Thyself

    1. Cognitive Dissonance is irrelevant to survival...ground of being

    2. Everyone will chase after what they think to be the brightest and shiniest object(ive) if they think they are sure they will survive or thrive. [from which cognitive dissonance arises in every single person)
    ...so we should question ourselves as much as everything else we are questioning.

    3. Then comes the T.I.B., or as i prefer to call it, pack animal or herd instinct, but is merely mob mentality that Jung coined the "collective."


    The overview of the 5 xian premises is an expression of prejudice because it is basically true only for--what Viktor Frankl called, "The True Believer" who will not accept any evidence contrary to what they assume to be true, which the voice in this video is doing. It is religion that does this, where there is an unswerving belief and xonfidence in any human intitution.

    We think there are reasons for everything, but physics has proven time is not linear, and moves from furure to past or is it from now into the past future, or from the past into now.or is it all jjstk omenthing and we think that by dividing and labeling everything we are somehow better off:


    Mayne all this is not clear enough so i aum going to write this a different way tomorrow night some time, and avoid letting any kats out of the bag in the process.

    I.will really appreciate further argument by everyone who will, so that maybe i can say this more clearly.


    G'night,

    Timmy

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