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Thread: 616

  1. #1

    616

    616

    sorry folks
    find all with books and on your own way
    seems to be that internet is not the way for an scientist

    Wolfram from Germany

    God save america
    Last edited by oxbox; 02-19-2013 at 04:03 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxbox View Post
    616 a NumberTemura of שושנה 661 schoschana
    and the no. of the beast means the mans name (in old aramaic)
    אית־אדמ־קינ
    אית is the old aramaic nota accusativi (to answer questions in hebrev)
    616 seems to be the right no., also of the meaning of this no. is מרושע 'malevolent'
    Hey there oxbox,

    Welcome to our forum!



    Your gematria seems rather forced to me. We all know how many possibilities there are, so if we let ourselves cherry pick using Temura and "old aramaic" and whatever we want, I don't see how we could have any confidence in that our results are anything but our own choosing. This is the biggest problem with gematria. A hundred people will have two hundred different answers. Why then should we think it means anything if there are no objective standards by which to judge?

    I think the number 616 is very significant because it confirms the identity of the beast as Nero. There are two spellings of his name in Hebrew (from the wiki):

    Nron Qsr = 666: The Greek version of the name and title transliterates into Hebrew as נרון קסר, and yields a numerical value of 666:[4][30]
    Resh (ר) Samekh (ס) Qoph (ק) Nun (נ) Vav (ו) Resh (ר) Nun (נ) Sum
    200 60 100 50 6 200 50 666

    Nro Qsr = 616: The Latin version of the name drops the second Nun (נ), so that it appears as Nro and transliterates into Hebrew as נרו קסר, yielding 616:[4]
    Resh (ר) Samekh (ס) Qoph (ק) Vav (ו) Resh (ר) Nun (נ) Sum
    200 60 100 6 200 50 616

    This seems like very strong evidence to me since both values are found in ancient texts.

    Quote Originally Posted by oxbox View Post
    The greek texts of Johannes was a kabbalistic reference to the speech of Jesus: old aramaic

    I was finding this solution after 20.000 hours of speech studies and only
    because of many little lucky coincidences and making a mathematic mistake first.
    i have informed the church several times without any response.

    The old aramaic texts didn't use Aleph for the sound of the Aleph in hebrev in the beginning of a word.
    Instead they use for this sound an Jod and so they hear in the sound of hebrev את 'et' (for me in german)
    no sound of writing an Aleph, but they saw the original hebrev with an Aleph as beginning the nota accusativi.
    So they add an Jod to write the same sound of hebrev 'et' and write אית.
    The Jod or Jud (don't know in english) replaced in old aramaic the sound of 'e' (for me in german for an א)
    from the hebrev את with Jud
    after the soundless א
    Do you have any examples of first or second century Christian writings you have any texts to support your ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by oxbox View Post
    if you like to know more from the סוד ask me
    i have since today studied over 40.000 hours of concentrated work on the old speeches and there kabbalistics

    my real name include the power of raven, the symbol for gematria, Gaia measuring
    i'm not a free masonary ! i was always trying to inform many people from the free masonary and the katholic church
    and jews without any response ever.
    Do you have a website?

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  3. #3
    Thx for being here and Thx for your response.

    The word קסר is wrong, cause it have to write קיסר (old aramaic lexica from Dalman {only in german i think})


    Wolfram

    God save america
    Last edited by oxbox; 02-19-2013 at 04:04 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxbox View Post
    Thx for being here and Thx for your response.

    The word קסר is wrong, cause it have to write קיסר (old aramaic lexica from Dalman {only in german i think})


    Wolfram

    God save america
    Hey there oxbow,

    I don't know about "old Aramaic" but I don't see why that should matter. The Peshitta consistently uses קסר for "caesar" so that's the spelling that was probably known to the author of Revelation.

    All the best,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    . The Peshitta consistently uses קסר for "caesar" so that's the spelling that was probably known to the author of Revelation.

    The Peshitta written in Hebrew?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post

    I think the number 616 is very significant because it confirms the identity of the beast as Nero. There are two spellings of his name in Hebrew (from the wiki):
    No,
    it says:
    The Greek version of the name and title transliterates into Hebrew as נרון קסר,
    and:;
    The Latin version of the name drops the second Nun (נ), so that it appears as Nro and transliterates into Hebrew as נרו קסר

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    This seems like very strong evidence to me since both values are found in ancient texts.
    Wikipedia mentions just one text:
    An Aramaic scroll from Murabba'at, dated to "the second year of Emperor Nero", refers to him by his name and title
    So it is very thin ice you are walking on.

    Revelation seems to have been written during the reign of Domitian, years after Nero's reign.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    The Peshitta written in Hebrew?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta
    No, the Peshitta was written in Aramaic. But Aramaic can be written using Hebrew characters, as we seen in the Aramaic sections of Daniel for example.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post

    I think the number 616 is very significant because it confirms the identity of the beast as Nero. There are two spellings of his name in Hebrew (from the wiki):
    No,
    it says:
    The Greek version of the name and title transliterates into Hebrew as נרון קסר,
    and:;
    The Latin version of the name drops the second Nun (נ), so that it appears as Nro and transliterates into Hebrew as נרו קסר
    Yes, and that proves my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvius View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    This seems like very strong evidence to me since both values are found in ancient texts.
    Wikipedia mentions just one text:
    An Aramaic scroll from Murabba'at, dated to "the second year of Emperor Nero", refers to him by his name and title
    So it is very thin ice you are walking on.

    Revelation seems to have been written during the reign of Domitian, years after Nero's reign.
    The evidence that Revelation was written late is very weak - it ultimately depends upon the witness of Irenaeus who didn't do so well with numbers. E.g. he said Jesus lived past 50!

    The ice is not thin. The facts all fit together to form the strongest possible conclusion. There are two Greek mss that use 616 and the two values (616 and 666) correspond to the spellings of Caesar Nero. You just don't like the facts because they don't fit with your interpretation.

    If Revelation was written after 70 AD, then it is a meaningless book because it says that the events would happen "soon" for the "time" was "at hand."
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    No, the Peshitta was written in Aramaic. But Aramaic can be written using Hebrew characters, as we seen in the Aramaic sections of Daniel for example.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta

    It is written in the Syriac alphabet,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_alphabet

    . The alphabet consists of 22 letters, all of which are consonants.
    Cognate to Hebrew alphabet.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    Yes, and that proves my point.
    No it doesn't.

    The name "QSR NRW(N)" seems to be just forced into it.

    Even the fact that some handwritings have 616 instead of 666 makes it likely.

    The copyïsts thinking that it was about Caesar Nero.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Amiel McGough View Post
    If Revelation was written after 70 AD, then it is a meaningless book because it says that the events would happen "soon" for the "time" was "at hand."
    You misinterpret the "soon" and the "near".

    It is always soon and always near .
    like also Mark defines the Gospel,
    Mark 1:15,

    "The time has been fulfilled and the kingdom of God has drawn near"

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