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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    Another passage that will need an explanation is the one where a woman undergoes trial if she is suspected of unfaithfulness

    She has to drink water mixed with dirt from the temple floor. If she falls ill, she is guilty.

    Given that dirt and germs generally make a person ill, this law will convict many innocent people as guilty. So this law seems both unfair and inefficient.

    It is unfair because many people will be found guilty who are in fact innocent. And the law is stupid because it is inefficient at achieving it's desired purpose - namely the separating of the guilty from the innocent.

    To ensure that the innocent were NEVER falsely convicted would require that the innocent were always protected from the effects of the dirt - a supernatural intervention in every case. And to ensure that the guilty are ALWAYS found guilty would require that their immune systems be suppressed supernaturally, so that they always fall ill.
    How do you explain when the innocent did not get ill from drinking the same polluted water?....unless God had a hand in the miraculous judgement.

    Would it not have been better for the man to gather evidence and produce witnesses, rather than subject the woman to eating poisonous dirt and seeing if God will save her? In the Middle Ages the same concept was applied to people suspected of a crime. They put their arms into boiling water. If they remain un-burnt they were innocent.

    This case is interesting because if God commanded it so then God created a rather stupid law because it does not separate the guilty from the innocent. The law could only possibly be effective if God intervened supernaturally in every case - it would have been easier for God to just say who the innocent party was rather than get them to eat dirt then save them from it.

    And the unnecessary stress involved for the woman.
    How do you explained the innocent who will not get their arm burnt? ....unless God helped in the judgement then?

    Same as I would put to you Craig, there are many seemingly stupid and unfair laws in the US which we may not be able to comprehend. These laws seem to have a local flavor which only the locals in those areas will be able to understand which foreigners will find strange and ridiculous. Some of God's laws were probably the same using the local flavor and tradition and beliefs in ancient Middle East. The other possibility was that God also had a hand then in the just judgement using His divine ability to read the hearts of peoples' intentions and minds whilst combining local traditions and beliefs, for example, God may have made the guilty ill drinking dirty water while those who were innocent will not got ill from drinking the same dirty water in full view of the congregation. Obviously, such laws cannot be applied when God did not come into play in the judgement and other laws would have been used. All common laws are derived from norms, beliefs and traditions. Some stupid and ridiculous laws in the US:

    In some states, including California, Florida, Nevada, Alaska and Hawaii a motorist can be cited for driving too slowly.

    In counties having populations of not less than 56,500 nor more than 59,000, according to the 1970 or any subsequent federal decennial census, domino games shall be lawful in billiard rooms or other rooms in which billiard tables are located.

    A United States Federal law states one can be fine upto $1,000,000 for pertaking in the act of Genocide.

    A United States federal law makes it illegal to issue a fake Weather Bureau forecast.

    Alabama
    State code allows only 5 minutes for one to vote.

    Arkansas
    Arkansas drive-in aren't very convenient thanks to this law... No person shall drive a motor vehicle onto the premises of a drive-in restaurant and leave the premises without parking such motor vehicle, unless there is no unoccupied parking space available on the premises.

    Sounding of horns at sandwich shops. No person shall sound the horn on a vehicle at any place where cold drinks or sandwiches are served after 9:00 p.m.

    California
    In Los Angeles, It is not legal to bathe two babies at the same time in the same tub.
    In Riverside, Kissing on the lips, unless both parties wipe their lips with carbonized rose water, is against the local health ordinance.
    In Walnut, No person shall wear a mask or disguise on a public street without a permit from the sheriff. Source: 17-32 Mask or disguise--Wearing.
    In Walnut, It shall be unlawful for any person to fly, above an altitude of ten feet above the ground, or near any electrical conductive public utility wires or facilities, any kite or balloon which has a body or any parts, tail, string or ribbon Source: 17-1 Kite flying restricted

    Colorado
    Colorado Water laws prohibit the use of rain barrels or any methods to catch rain for use. They claim the rain has already been legally allocated to the state and individual may not capture and use water to which he/she does not have a right. New Laws passed in June 2009 eradicate this law.

    Connecticut
    No hanky panky allowed in Connecticut.. A person who commits any unnatural and lascivious act with another person commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. It is illegal for unmarried couples to commit lewd acts and live together Source: 775.082 or s. 775.083

    Illinois
    A state law requires that a man's female companion shall call him "master" while out on a date. The law does not apply to married couples.
    In Zion, It is illegal for anyone to give cats, dogs, or other domesticated animals a lighted cigar.

    Indiana
    In Indianapolis, No horse shall be driven or ridden on any street in the city at a speed in excess of ten (10) miles per hour. Source: Code 1975, � 29-5

    Iowa
    In Ottumwa, It is illegal for any man, within the corporate city limits, to wink at any female with whom he is "unacquainted."

    Kansas
    In Topeka, Servers are forbidden to serve wine in teacups.

    Kentucky
    A female shall not appear in a bathing suit on any highway within this state. section 1376m-1, 1376m-2 Repealed: January 1, 1975

    Louisiana
    In Mansfield, Anyone caught wearing sagging pants that expose underwear will be subject to a fine of up to $150 plus court costs � or face up to 15 days in jail. A court later overturned the law, declaring it unconstitutional.
    In New Orleans, Fire Code outlaws the cursing of firefighters while they are in the performance of thier duties. Source: Sec. 74-2

    Maryland
    In Baltimore, It is illegal to take a lion to the movies.

    Minnesota
    Many municipalities in Minnesota (including Anoka County) still have a Vagrancy law on the books that makes it misdemeanor for a person, with ability to work, who is without lawful means of support, and does not seek employment, and is not under 18 years of age.

    Mississippi
    A state law prohibits the seduction of a female over the age of eighteen by promised or pretended marriage. Source: � 97-29-55. Codes, 1892, � 1298;

    Nebraska
    It is not legal for a tavern owner to serve beer unless a nice kettle of soup is also brewing.

    Nevada
    In Reno, It is unlawful for any person to carry on, conduct or maintain any marathon dancing or marathon walking Source: Code 1966, � 11.12.130

    New Jersey
    In Bergen County, Blue laws still in effect. The only retail outlets permitted to be open on Sundays are grocery stores and liquor stores. L

    New York
    It is against the law to throw a ball at someone's head for fun.
    A license must be purchased before hanging clothes on a clothesline.
    A fine of $25 can be levied for flirting. This old law specifically prohibits men from turning around on any city street and looking "at a woman in that way." A second conviction for a crime of this magnitude calls for the violating male to be forced to wear a "pair of horse-blinders" wherever and whenever he goes outside for a stroll.
    In Carmel, A man cannot be seen in public while wearing a jacket and pants that do not match.
    In Greene, During a concert, it is illegal to eat peanuts and walk backwards on the sidewalks.
    In Ocean City, It is illegal to eat in the street in residential neighborhoods, and the only beverage you can drink on the beach is water in a clear plastic bottle.
    In Ocean City, It is illegal for men to go topless in the center of town.
    In Staten Island, You may only water your lawn if the hose is held in your hand.
    In Staten Island, It is illegal for a father to call his son a "faggot" or "queer" in an effort to curb "girlie behavior."

    New York City
    You may not smoke within 100 feet of the entrance to a public building.
    Women may go topless in public, providing it is not being used as a business.
    It is illegal to have permit dancing in an establishment that sells food without a cabaret license. Link
    It is illegal for a woman to be on the street wearing "body hugging clothing."
    Citizens may not greet each other by "putting one's thumb to the nose and wiggling the fingers".

    North Carolina
    It is illegal to hold more than two sessions of bingo per week, and those sessions may not exceed 5 hours each session. Source: � 14-309.8. Link

    Ohio
    In Oxford, It is unlawful for a woman to appear in public while unshaven. This includes legs and face.
    In Youngstown, You may not run out of gas. Source: Youngstown City Ordinances, Section 331.44 Link

    Oklahoma
    It Is Illegal To Have A sleeping Donkey In Your Bathtub After 7pm

    South Carolina
    There's no place for fun... It is unlawful for a minor under the age of eighteen to play a pinball machine. Source: 20-7-8915

    Tennessee
    It is unlawful for any person to import, possess, or cause to be imported into this state any type of live skunk, or to sell, barter, exchange or otherwise transfer any live skunk, except that the prohibitions of this section shall not apply to bona fide zoological parks and research institutions. Source: 70-4-208. Unlawful importation of skunks - Penalty.
    You must beleive in god to be elected into office. You also are not permitted into office if you were in contendant in a duel. Source: Tennessee Constitution - Article IX

    Vermont
    In Montpelier, No law was violated when 42 cyclists rode through Vermont's capital naked on May 14, 2009. The Barre-Montpelier Times Argus reported that Vermont has no ban on public nudity. Disrobing in public is a crime, but the cyclists disrobed before venturing out and would not be charged. Source: http://www.wptz.com/news/19749434/detail.html

    West Virginia
    If any person arrived at the age of discretion profanely curse or swear or get drunk in public, he shall be fined by a justice one dollar for each offense Source: �61-8-15. Profane swearing and drunkenness; penalty.
    It is illegal to taunt someone for not accepting a challenge for a duel. Actual: If any person post another, or in writing or in print use any reproachful or contemptuous language to or concerning another, for not fighting a duel, or for not sending or accepting a challenge, he shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon conviction, shall be confined in jail not more than six months, or fined not exceeding one hundred dollars. Source: �61-2-24. Taunting for nonparticipation in duel; penalty.
    State code deems it unlawful for any person to have in his possession or to display any red or black flag. Source: West Virginia Code 61-1-6

    Wisconsin
    The serving of colored oleomargarine or margarine at a public eating place as a substitute for table butter is prohibited unless it is ordered by the customer. Source: 97.18(4)
    In Sun Prairie, No rider of a bicycle shall remove both hands from the handlebars or practice any trick or fancy riding in any street in the city nor shall any bicycle rider carry or ride any other person so that two persons are on the bicycle at one time, unless a seat is provided for a second person. Source: Section 10.32.020 Manner of operation restricted.
    In Wauwatosa, No person shall spit... upon the floor or stairways of any public hall or building or upon the floor ...or upon any sidewalk abutting on any public street or alley of said city.
    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 06-06-2014 at 05:12 PM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Same as I would put to you Craig, there are many seemingly stupid and unfair laws in the US which we may not be able to comprehend. These laws seem to have a local flavor which only the locals in those areas will be able to understand which foreigners will find strange and ridiculous. Some of God's laws were probably the same using the local flavor and tradition and beliefs in ancient Middle East. The other possibility was that God also had a hand then in the just judgement using His divine ability to read the hearts of peoples' intentions and minds whilst combining local traditions and beliefs, for example, God may have made the guilty ill drinking dirty water while those who were innocent will not got ill from drinking the same dirty water in full view of the congregation. All common laws are derived from norms, beliefs and traditions. Some stupid and ridiculous laws in the US:



    God Bless.
    So, the god you believe in is on par with what the locals believed in primitive societies? That sure doesn't say much for the Biblegod's intelligence. Come on! Do your excuses and justifications know no limits?

    The reason people find many of the biblical laws ridiculous, is because THEY ARE!
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    So, the god you believe in is on par with what the locals believed in primitive societies? That sure doesn't say much for the Biblegod's intelligence. Come on! Do your excuses and justifications know no limits?

    The reason people find many of the biblical laws ridiculous, is because THEY ARE!
    How about the ridiculous laws in the US? are they also from primitive societies? That sure say much about American intelligence.

    God Bless.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    How about the ridiculous laws in the US? are they also from primitive societies? That sure say much about American intelligence.

    God Bless.
    Yes, the ridiculous laws in the US were made by ignorant men.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Yes, the ridiculous laws in the US were made by ignorant men.
    Then they are stupid enough not to change the laws! Why don't they? or perhaps there are other reasons that we foreigners to their specific areas may not understand same as we may not undderstand many godly things. Jesus said that if you can't even understand or believe earthly things how can you understand or believe in heavenly things?

    John 3:10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 06-07-2014 at 03:10 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  6. #56
    Unregistered Guest

    Adams Sin

    Moral problems are found throughout the Bible. Taking the story of Adam and Eve -

    If Adam and Eve sinned, then fair enough, BUT why hold all of their blood descendants responsible for Adam's sin?? Punishing the blood descendants for the crimes of the fathers seems to be a common thing in the Bible. It is certainly unjust by our modern standards, and we would never convict a person based on what his father, grandfather or, in this case, his very distant ancestor, has done

    It is simply wrong to do so, yet the Bible starts right out by asserting that all Adam's descendants will be punished for the sin of Adam.

    All I can say is that this is absolutely not how we do justice today, in any court. In other words, it conflicts with our current morality.

    In the same way, when the Egyptians would not let the Hebrews go, God slaughtered all the Firstborn - innocent children - for the sins of their fathers. I am not sure why God punishes children for the sins of the fathers, but it seems immoral by OUR CURRENT STANDARDS.

    Therefore, I do not believe it is possible to defend the Bible as a good and moral document any more....much to my regret....but the facts have to be faced

    All I can say is that God's acts are immoral by our standards, which does not mean that God is necessarily evil, since God may be beyond Good and Evil. But one thing is for sure - the Bible cannot be upheld as a good book in any meaningful way.

  7. #57
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    Adam's sin

    Moral problems are found throughout the Bible. Taking the story of Adam and Eve -

    If Adam and Eve sinned, then fair enough, BUT why hold all of their blood descendants responsible for Adam's sin?? Punishing the blood descendants for the crimes of the fathers seems to be a common thing in the Bible. It is certainly unjust by our modern standards, and we would never convict a person based on what his father, grandfather or, in this case, his very distant ancestor, has done

    It is simply wrong to do so, yet the Bible starts right out by asserting that all Adam's descendants will be punished for the sin of Adam.

    All I can say is that this is absolutely not how we do justice today, in any court. In other words, it conflicts with our current morality.

    In the same way, when the Egyptians would not let the Hebrews go, God slaughtered all the Firstborn - innocent children - for the sins of their fathers. I am not sure why God punishes children for the sins of the fathers, but it seems immoral by OUR CURRENT STANDARDS.

    Therefore, I do not believe it is possible to defend the Bible as a good and moral document any more....if what we consider as moral are our current standards.

    All I can say is that God's acts are immoral by our standards, which does not mean that God is necessarily evil, because God may have a completely different idea of what constitutes sin or evil. But one thing is for sure - the Bible cannot be upheld as a good book by our current standards.

    It seem to me that the Bible has some very unique ideas about sin. It believes that sin can be inherited along a blood line. This sounds very metaphysical. Maybe it is true...The mechanisms of sin transference may just be beyond our current comprehension. However this does not change the fact that Biblical ethics appear as immoral by our current understanding and ethics.
    Last edited by Craig.Paardekooper; 06-07-2014 at 07:36 AM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    Moral problems are found throughout the Bible. Taking the story of Adam and Eve -

    If Adam and Eve sinned, then fair enough, BUT why hold all of their blood descendants responsible for Adam's sin?? Punishing the blood descendants for the crimes of the fathers seems to be a common thing in the Bible. It is certainly unjust by our modern standards, and we would never convict a person based on what his father, grandfather or, in this case, his very distant ancestor, has done

    It is simply wrong to do so, yet the Bible starts right out by asserting that all Adam's descendants will be punished for the sin of Adam.

    All I can say is that this is absolutely not how we do justice today, in any court. In other words, it conflicts with our current morality.

    In the same way, when the Egyptians would not let the Hebrews go, God slaughtered all the Firstborn - innocent children - for the sins of their fathers. I am not sure why God punishes children for the sins of the fathers, but it seems immoral by OUR CURRENT STANDARDS.

    Therefore, I do not believe it is possible to defend the Bible as a good and moral document any more....if what we consider as moral are our current standards.

    All I can say is that God's acts are immoral by our standards, which does not mean that God is necessarily evil, because God may have a completely different idea of what constitutes sin or evil. But one thing is for sure - the Bible cannot be upheld as a good book by our current standards.

    It seem to me that the Bible has some very unique ideas about sin. It believes that sin can be inherited along a blood line. This sounds very metaphysical. Maybe it is true...The mechanisms of sin transference may just be beyond our current comprehension. However this does not change the fact that Biblical ethics appear as immoral by our current understanding and ethics.
    It is the same as me saying why must the Japanese children and womenfolks died in the atomic bombings for the sins and crimes of their fathers in WW2? And the radiation diseases will caused mutations to the genes of their descendants. This is wrong and immoral based on our current standards, therefore, the American government cannot be trusted or upheld as a moral standard to follow

    God Bless.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  9. #59
    runningman Guest
    Craig. in two isolated cases which are unique, two men, Adam and Christ, acted in ways that affect all humanity. Death came into all people as sin came into the cosmos thru the one act of the one man, Adam. At the far end of the spectrum, life and peace to all through the obedience of Christ. Joel

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    It is the same as me saying why must the Japanese children and womenfolks died in the atomic bombings for the sins and crimes of their fathers in WW2? And the radiation diseases will caused mutations to the genes of their descendants. This is wrong and immoral based on our current standards, therefore, the American government cannot be trusted or upheld as a moral standard to follow

    God Bless.
    Do you realize that you are continually comparing the Biblegod, to the thinking and actions of men ... which only proves my point that the Bible and its god were conceived in the minds of men.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

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