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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    A healthy lifestyle of cleanliness and adequate rest is always best, but that is not what we are talking about. The whole point of this conversation is the primitive concept found in the Bible that you are trying to defend, of needing to offer a bloody animal sacrifice for normal bodily functions! You are continually trying to justify the barbaric idea that the sacrificing of animals somehow cleanses and forgives sin, and that normal bodily functions are sinful ... That is WRONG!
    I am trying to tell you that the sacrifice of animals in sin offerings serve as a witness to the covenant before God and man. The sacrificial animal could testify in the heavenly court that the covenant is legally binding between God and Man. The sacrificial animal will then be eaten to celebrate the forgiveness of sin. It also serves as a reminder that if the covenant is broken by man, then they will end up like the killed animals. It goes the same with humans, supposed you are forgiven or vindicated from a crime and you wanted to share this happiness for your family, relatives and friends, what will you do? You give them a treat and that includes eating of meat, vegetables etc. meaning some animals and plants like chicken, fish and vegetables etc, will have to be consumed to share this happy occasion. Is this considered as barbaric also?

    Supposed I sacrificed my life for you Rose from being murdered, I have to account to God what I have done and why I died. And supposed when you eventually died and go to heaven, you also have to account for what you have done in your life to God. I would then be able to bear witness as to what are the good things you have done and you bear witness that I sacrificed my life for you based on love thy neighbor as thyself. This is analogous to a big business deal in which there will be witnesses to the signing of the business agreement between the directors of both companies with the signature of the witnesses and lawyers to ensure that the agreement is legally binding and done with good faith. Whoever broke the agreement will have to pay compensation to the other party. This will usually be followed by a sumptous lunch or dinner to celebrate the occasion of the sucessful business deal. That also means that animals and plants will have to be consumed to celebrate the successful business deal. Is that also barbaric?

    Likewise the animals serves as a witness to the "bussiness deal" between God and man done in good faith that God forgave the sin of man whereas man will obey God's commandments to lead a righteous sinless life. The sacrifical animals will then be consumed to celebrate the joyous occasion. Is that also barbaric?....or do you supposed we should sacrifice a human as a witness to the covenant instead of an animal?..... Is the sacrifice of animals more barbaric compared to the religious tradition of Baal and Molech which sacrificed young children? If so, shouldn't the religions of Baal and Molech be destroyed?

    There you go again, saying that one of the purposes of sacrificing animals was the forgiveness of sin!

    My two main points:

    1. NATURAL BODILY FUNCTIONS LIKE SEX, MENSTRUATION, SEMEN EMISSIONS AND GIVING BIRTH ARE NOT SINFUL!

    2. BLOODY ANIMAL SACRIFICES DO NOT CLEANSE THE BODY, OR FORGIVE SIN!
    1. There you go again, I have said that sex, menstruation, semen emission, birth are not sinful but the bodily discharges are dirty and can harbor gemrs and therefore must be cleansed to ensure a good standard of personal hygiene to prevent infections and diseases. Bible God provided some healthy instructions including rest to ensure that, based on the healthy methods available to those ancient people at that time. It is considered sinful based on the fact that poor hygiene practices will spread infections and disease to others who are your neighbors. If you really love your neighbors as yourself, you will not want to harm them by spreading infections and diseases to them due to your unheathy dirty practices whilst going against God's instructions which He instructed on healthy practices and healthy lifestyle. Disobedience to God and His instructions and harming the innocents are considered sinful.

    2. Correct, but blood sacrifices provide witness to the covenant between God and man for the forgiveness of sin and other blessings as I have already stated in the above paragragh. It also serves as a reminder that in the event that the covenant is broken by man, they will end up like the killed bloody animals; if broken by God (which is almost impossible), then God will have to pay compensations. Have I made myself clear?

    I don't recall anyone saying that criminals should be released from prison??? Where did you come up with that crazy idea??? Oh, I know! That's what Christianity teaches ... forgive all the criminals if they confess Jesus, and condemn all those who don't believe!
    Then what do you expect? It goes the same with humans too; if you confess and regret to your crimes, you will get a lighter sentence and if you don't and found guilty, the full force of the punishment of the law will be on you. If you don't obey or ignore the country's law, you will be punished if you break the laws. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Is that anything wrong or unfair?

    According to your Christian belief system, if Hitler had asked Jesus for forgiveness, he would have been instantly forgiven of all his heinous crimes.
    As I said before, forgiveness of sin comes with punishment; same as secular law if a criminal who confess to his crime and regret sincerely will not go unpunished but will be given a lighter sentence. This is for justice and for deterrence.
    Knowing Hitler, I doubt Hilter will repent (and repentance goes with punishment) if not he would have ended WW2 much earlier and saving millions of lives. He will probably answer, "There is no God the Father except the Fuhrer. God is Bullshit! Heil Hitler!".

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 06-01-2014 at 03:53 AM.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I am trying to tell you that the sacrifice of animals in sin offerings serve as a witness to the covenant before God and man. The sacrificial animal could testify in the heavenly court that the covenant is legally binding between God and Man. The sacrificial animal will then be eaten to celebrate the forgiveness of sin. It also serves as a reminder that if the covenant is broken by man, then they will end up like the killed animals. It goes the same with humans, supposed you are forgiven or vindicated from a crime and you wanted to share this happiness for your family, relatives and friends, what will you do? You give them a treat and that includes eating of meat, vegetables etc. meaning some animals and plants like chicken, fish and vegetables etc, will have to be consumed to share this happy occasion. Is this considered as barbaric also?

    Supposed I sacrificed my life for you Rose from being murdered, I have to account to God what I have done and why I died. And supposed when you eventually died and go to heaven, you also have to account for what you have done in your life to God. I would then be able to bear witness as to what are the good things you have done and you bear witness that I sacrificed my life for you based on love thy neighbor as thyself. This is analogous to a big business deal in which there will be witnesses to the signing of the business agreement between the directors of both companies with the signature of the witnesses and lawyers to ensure that the agreement is legally binding and done with good faith. Whoever broke the agreement will have to pay compensation to the other party. This will usually be followed by a sumptous lunch or dinner to celebrate the occasion of the sucessful business deal. That also means that animals and plants will have to be consumed to celebrate the successful business deal. Is that also barbaric?

    Likewise the animals serves as a witness to the "bussiness deal" between God and man done in good faith that God forgave the sin of man whereas man will obey God's commandments to lead a righteous sinless life. The sacrifical animals will then be consumed to celebrate the joyous occasion. Is that also barbaric?....or do you supposed we should sacrifice a human as a witness to the covenant instead of an animal?..... Is the sacrifice of animals more barbaric compared to the religious tradition of Baal and Molech which sacrificed young children? If so, shouldn't the religions of Baal and Molech be destroyed?


    1. There you go again, I have said that sex, menstruation, semen emission, birth are not sinful but the bodily discharges are dirty and can harbor gemrs and therefore must be cleansed to ensure a good standard of personal hygiene to prevent infections and diseases. Bible God provided some healthy instructions including rest to ensure that, based on the healthy methods available to those ancient people at that time. It is considered sinful based on the fact that poor hygiene practices will spread infections and disease to others who are your neighbors. If you really love your neighbors as yourself, you will not want to harm them by spreading infections and diseases to them due to your unheathy dirty practices whilst going against God's instructions which He instructed on healthy practices and healthy lifestyle. Disobedience to God and His instructions and harming the innocents are considered sinful.

    2. Correct, but blood sacrifices provide witness to the covenant between God and man for the forgiveness of sin and other blessings as I have already stated in the above paragragh. It also serves as a reminder that in the event that the covenant is broken by man, they will end up like the killed bloody animals; if broken by God (which is almost impossible), then God will have to pay compensations. Have I made myself clear?


    Then what do you expect? It goes the same with humans too; if you confess and regret to your crimes, you will get a lighter sentence and if you don't and found guilty, the full force of the punishment of the law will be on you. If you don't obey or ignore the country's law, you will be punished if you break the laws. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Is that anything wrong or unfair?


    As I said before, forgiveness of sin comes with punishment; same as secular law if a criminal who confess to his crime and regret sincerely will not go unpunished but will be given a lighter sentence. This is for justice and for deterrence.
    Knowing Hitler, I doubt Hilter will repent (and repentance goes with punishment) if not he would have ended WW2 much earlier and saving millions of lives. He will probably answer, "There is no God the Father except the Fuhrer. God is Bullshit! Heil Hitler!".

    God Bless.
    Your words continue to pile up higher and higher in your attempt to justify the BARBARIC ACT of sacrificing animals to cleanse and forgive natural bodily functions, when ALL that is required is to practice good hygiene and keep oneself clean.

    Sacrificing animals for the purpose of forgiving sin and cleansing is a BARBARIC CONCEPT that most all ancient cultures practice in some form, because they were superstitious and believed in mythical gods. Modern people understand that sacrificing animals does NOTHING as far as cleansing them or forgiving sins, so there is no sense in trying to justify the primitive ideas of ancient men who were trying to appease their mythical gods.

    The Bible is an ancient book filled with primitive ideas about all sorts of things people didn't understand at the time, so they MADE UP reasons based on their superstitious thinking. Today we understand things based on the scientific method of understanding and evidence, not on SUPERSTITIONS and MYTHS! You need to let go of that type of primitive thinking and embrace the scientific approach that uses reason and logic based on evidence. Step into the 21st century!
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Your words continue to pile up higher and higher in your attempt to justify the BARBARIC ACT of sacrificing animals to cleanse and forgive natural bodily functions, when ALL that is required is to practice good hygiene and keep oneself clean.

    Sacrificing animals for the purpose of forgiving sin and cleansing is a BARBARIC CONCEPT that most all ancient cultures practice in some form, because they were superstitious and believed in mythical gods. Modern people understand that sacrificing animals does NOTHING as far as cleansing them or forgiving sins, so there is no sense in trying to justify the primitive ideas of ancient men who were trying to appease their mythical gods.

    The Bible is an ancient book filled with primitive ideas about all sorts of things people didn't understand at the time, so they MADE UP reasons based on their superstitious thinking. Today we understand things based on the scientific method of understanding and evidence, not on SUPERSTITIONS and MYTHS! You need to let go of that type of primitive thinking and embrace the scientific approach that uses reason and logic based on evidence. Step into the 21st century!
    Yep. It's VOODOO! The religion of primitive people ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Your words continue to pile up higher and higher in your attempt to justify the BARBARIC ACT of sacrificing animals to cleanse and forgive natural bodily functions, when ALL that is required is to practice good hygiene and keep oneself clean.
    Hygiene is good for cleaning the body, how about cleaning the soul? What good is a clean body but a stinking dirty soul? How can we get rid of our stinking dirty soul? Obviously, forgiveness of sin! It also provide some form of psychological hygiene knowing that your sins are forgiven and blessings given. What good is healthy body but poor mental health? That's why God provides both optimal physical spiritual and mental health for your body and soul with worship, prayers, sin offerings etc. He taught us how best to live our life abundantly and eternally. What is the point of living a temporal life on earth when you know that it is possible to live abundant life eternally if you believe in God. Remember what Jesus said, "Do Not store your treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy but store your treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not destroy".

    Sacrificing animals for the purpose of forgiving sin and cleansing is a BARBARIC CONCEPT that most all ancient cultures practice in some form, because they were superstitious and believed in mythical gods. Modern people understand that sacrificing animals does NOTHING as far as cleansing them or forgiving sins, so there is no sense in trying to justify the primitive ideas of ancient men who were trying to appease their mythical gods.
    You still don't understand that we sacrifice millions of animals everyday to appease gods and to appease our stomachs. It is important for both mental, spiritual and physical health. Isn't it equally barbaric if we kill animals to celebrate occasions, birthdays, parties, for thrills, for banquets....that's what modern people do. The so call ancient barbaric idea is still prevalent in modern people's minds.

    The Bible is an ancient book filled with primitive ideas about all sorts of things people didn't understand at the time, so they MADE UP reasons based on their superstitious thinking. Today we understand things based on the scientific method of understanding and evidence, not on SUPERSTITIONS and MYTHS! You need to let go of that type of primitive thinking and embrace the scientific approach that uses reason and logic based on evidence. Step into the 21st century!
    Don't you know that we unconsciously worship God everyday?... for the food we eat, the climate we have, the children, the sun, the stars, the fauna and flora, natural sceneries etc. etc. Yet, there are ungrateful people!
    There are many ultra-scientific ideas in the Bible which we have not even realized if only You open your eyes wider still!... ideas way beyond our imaginations which only ignorant people like you regard as non-sense and fantasies....raising of the dead, curing illnesses instantly, walking on water etc. Step beyond the 21st century! Now Open Your Eyes WIDER!

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 06-03-2014 at 05:06 AM.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Hygiene is good for cleaning the body, how about cleaning the soul? What good is a clean body but a stinking dirty soul? How can we get rid of our stinking dirty soul? Obviously, forgiveness of sin! It also provide some form of psychological hygiene knowing that your sins are forgiven and blessings given. What good is healthy body but poor mental health? That's why God provides both optimal physical spiritual and mental health for your body and soul with worship, prayers, sin offerings etc. He taught us how best to live our life abundantly and eternally. What is the point of living a temporal life on earth when you know that it is possible to live abundant life eternally if you believe in God. Remember what Jesus said, "Do Not store your treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy but store your treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not destroy".


    You still don't understand that we sacrifice millions of animals everyday to appease gods and to appease our stomachs. It is important for both mental, spiritual and physical health. Isn't it equally barbaric if we kill animals to celebrate occasions, birthdays, parties, for thrills, for banquets....that's what modern people do. The so call ancient barbaric idea is still prevalent in modern people's minds.
    OMG! You still don get it?!? All animals (humans included) need to eat food to survive, some animals eat meat, some eat plants ... that has nothing to do with sacrificing animals to cleanse peoples sins or grant forgiveness!

    The Bible declares that natural human bodily functions are sinful, and in need of cleansing and forgiveness by the shedding of animal blood! The shedding of animal blood does not cleanse or forgive sin. It is a barbaric and primitive idea which the Bible promotes as being commanded by its god.

    Anyone who sacrifices an animal for the purpose of appeasing a god, is doing a barbaric and primitive act! Killing animals for food for celebrations is very different than killing them to appease a mythological god, and believing that the killing of an animal actually cleanses you of sin! Why can't you understand that??

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Don't you know that we unconsciously worship God everyday?... for the food we eat, the climate we have, the children, the sun, the stars, the fauna and flora, natural sceneries etc. etc. Yet, there are ungrateful people!
    There are many ultra-scientific ideas in the Bible which we have not even realized if only You open your eyes wider still!... ideas way beyond our imaginations which only ignorant people like you regard as non-sense and fantasies....raising of the dead, curing illnesses instantly, walking on water etc. Step beyond the 21st century! Now Open Your Eyes WIDER!

    God Bless.
    So far there has not been one documented case of the Biblegod raising someone from the dead, instantly curing an illness, or someone walking on water. Someday, science may be able to do those things, but so far the Biblegod hasn't because he is mythological.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  6. #36
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    Does Sacrifice make sense?

    70 generations from Enoch to Christ lasting 1111111 days.

    Exactly halfway we find the LAW of the MOSAIC covenant which centred on the sacrifice of animals to cover our sins.

    Complete forgiveness only came at the end of the 70 generations - by the Son of God being sacrificed for us

    During the period of guilt, the blood of the innocent was continuously shed to provide temporary forgiveness. ONly the blood of God could provide everlasting forgiveness.Everyday we had to bathe in blood - this reminded us of our guilt.

    In the Axial age, there was a distinct shift away from sacrifice towards personal and direct communion. This began half way between Moses and Christ - 770 years after Moses the Northern Kingdom was judged. In 701 B.C. the Southern Kingdom was spared and lasted a further 770 years. The swing was from Judgement to Mercy

    From Noah until Moses there were 430 x 2 years. 70 sabbath years x 2

    From Moses until the end of the Temple in 586 B.C there were also 70 sabbath years x 2

    Through out the 70 generations, the Sabbath functioned as a time of forginveness.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/animal-sacrifices.html

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    70 generations from Enoch to Christ lasting 1111111 days.
    Hello Craig,

    I don't understand how you can assert an exact number of days when there are so many uncertain factors? Enoch may or may not have been a real person, but if he was a real person there is no reliable date for his birth. The same with Jesus, his birth date ranges from 6BC to 1 or 2AD. Even asserting 70 generations is taking liberties with a lot of unknowns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    Exactly halfway we find the LAW of the MOSAIC covenant which centred on the sacrifice of animals to cover our sins.

    Complete forgiveness only came at the end of the 70 generations - by the Son of God being sacrificed for us

    During the period of guilt, the blood of the innocent was continuously shed to provide temporary forgiveness. ONly the blood of God could provide everlasting forgiveness.Everyday we had to bathe in blood - this reminded us of our guilt.
    The idea of sacrificing animals and humans for the covering of sins and forgiveness, is a very primitive concept that was prevalent in many ancient cultures. To the non-superstitious modern mind, there is absolutely no reason why blood needs to be shed in order for wrongs to be forgiven ... that type of primitive thinking needs to be thrown into the dustbin of history. The whole concept of needing to sacrifice a life in order to be cleansed of sin was born in the superstitious thought patterns of primitive men who had no idea of how the world around them worked ... everything bad that happened was the decree of some capricious god who needed the sweet savor of burning flesh to appease him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    In the Axial age, there was a distinct shift away from sacrifice towards personal and direct communion. This began half way between Moses and Christ - 770 years after Moses the Northern Kingdom was judged. In 701 B.C. the Southern Kingdom was spared and lasted a further 770 years. The swing was from Judgement to Mercy

    From Noah until Moses there were 430 x 2 years. 70 sabbath years x 2

    From Moses until the end of the Temple in 586 B.C there were also 70 sabbath years x 2

    Through out the 70 generations, the Sabbath functioned as a time of forginveness.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/animal-sacrifices.html
    Again, all the dates you are asserting are just guess work. If there really was a Noah or a Moses, there is no agreement on when they might have lived, so saying that there was 860 years between them has no bases whatsoever in fact.

    You speak of the Axial age having a swing from Judgment to Mercy, yet when one reads the book of Revelation it is filled from front to back with judgment and eternal torment in hell, things which the Old Testament never spoke of!

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    OMG! You still don get it?!? All animals (humans included) need to eat food to survive, some animals eat meat, some eat plants ... that has nothing to do with sacrificing animals to cleanse peoples sins or grant forgiveness!
    You still don't get it? Animals were sacrifice for human consumption not only to feed the stomachs but also to keep them happy during festive, party and event celebrations. Isn't it barbaric to sacrifice animals to keep people happy. If you think it is not, then what is the difference between these celebrations and sacrificing animals to forgive sin which is also for food and celebrations?

    The Bible declares that natural human bodily functions are sinful, and in need of cleansing and forgiveness by the shedding of animal blood! The shedding of animal blood does not cleanse or forgive sin. It is a barbaric and primitive idea which the Bible promotes as being commanded by its god.
    Anyone who sacrifices an animal for the purpose of appeasing a god, is doing a barbaric and primitive act! Killing animals for food for celebrations is very different than killing them to appease a mythological god, and believing that the killing of an animal actually cleanses you of sin! Why can't you understand that??
    The Bible never declare that natural bodily functions are sinful but that the bodily discharges are dirty and it is the causes of the spread of most diseases. It is sinful in the sense that if you don't keep clean, it will spread diseases to innocent self and others. The shedding of animal blood does not cleanse or forgive sin but the blood shedding was necessary as a reminder that blood will be shed if you sin.
    Is it ethical to sacrifice an animal to feed the poor who can't afford meat to meet their nutritional needs? That is also one reason why the sacrificial animal was shared among all who worship God. If you think it is ok to sacrifice animals in celebrations, then what is the difference between these celebrations and sacrificing animals to forgive sin which is also for food and celebrations? God has said in the Bible that it is not the sacrification of animals that He wants but that the people turned from their evil ways and do righteous things by obeying God.

    Hosea 6:6
    For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
    and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.


    Psalms 51:16
    You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
    you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
    17 My sacrifice, O God, is[b] a broken spirit;
    a broken and contrite heart
    you, God, will not despise.
    18 May it please you to prosper Zion,
    to build up the walls of Jerusalem.
    19 Then you will delight in the sacrifices of the righteous,
    in burnt offerings offered whole;
    then bulls will be offered on your altar.


    Funny, blood which are donated and its blood products are used to save lives such as in blood, platelets and plasma transfusions, production of therapeutic hormones, immuno drugs etc. the white blood cells in our blood is capable of fighting against a;most all diseases and yet does not cause bacteria resistance as with the use of antibiotics.

    So far there has not been one documented case of the Biblegod raising someone from the dead, instantly curing an illness, or someone walking on water. Someday, science may be able to do those things, but so far the Biblegod hasn't because he is mythological.
    Don't you know we are "gods" as stated by Isaiah? And many of the miracles that were performed by Jesus disciples or described in the Bible such as the raising of the dead, curing of diseases instantly, walking on the water have been partially achieved by modern humans such as cardiac defibrillation, artificial heart, pacemakers, antibiotics, vaccines, radiotherapies etc. There are researches to perfect those treatments and I have no doubt we will be able to achieve many of those miracles as described in the Bible in the near future. Now open your eyes BIG BIG and live beyond the 21st century! The Bible is full of ultra-scientific ideas beyond our current technologies.

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 06-05-2014 at 12:08 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    You still don't get it? Animals were sacrifice for human consumption not only to feed the stomachs but also to keep them happy during festive, party and event celebrations. Isn't it barbaric to sacrifice animals to keep people happy. If you think it is not, then what is the difference between these celebrations and sacrificing animals to forgive sin which is also for food and celebrations?
    Hello Cheow

    NO, No, no! Human consumption was not the reason that animals were sacrificed under the Mosaic Law. Yes, the priests did eat some of the sacrificed meat, but that is not the reason the animals were sacrificed in the first place. It clearly states in the Mosaic Law that the killing of animals and the shedding of blood is required by the Biblegod to cleanse and forgive iniquity.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    The Bible never declare that natural bodily functions are sinful but that the bodily discharges are dirty and it is the causes of the spread of most diseases. It is sinful in the sense that if you don't keep clean, it will spread diseases to innocent self and others. The shedding of animal blood does not cleanse or forgive sin but the blood shedding was necessary as a reminder that blood will be shed if you sin.
    The Bible most certainly does declare that natural bodily functions are sinful! If it was merely because bodily discharges are dirty as you say, then why aren't sacrifices requires every time someone takes a crap or a pee? Feces really is dirty the minute it comes out of the body, whereas semen and menstrual fluids are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Is it ethical to sacrifice an animal to feed the poor who can't afford meat to meet their nutritional needs? That is also one reason why the sacrificial animal was shared among all who worship God. If you think it is ok to sacrifice animals in celebrations, then what is the difference between these celebrations and sacrificing animals to forgive sin which is also for food and celebrations? God has said in the Bible that it is not the sacrification of animals that He wants but that the people turned from their evil ways and do righteous things by obeying God.
    There is nothing unethical about killing animals for food, but we are not talking about the ethics of killing animals for food. What we are talking about is the notion that is promoted in the Bible, that somehow the killing of an animal as is required under the Mosaic Law, cleanses people and forgives their sins. Sacrificing animals and humans to appease a capricious god is a very barbaric and primitive idea that many cultures practiced in ancient times. It is an idea born out of ignorance, and needs to be soundly rejected.



    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Don't you know we are "gods" as stated by Isaiah? And many of the miracles that were performed by Jesus disciples or described in the Bible such as the raising of the dead, curing of diseases instantly, walking on the water have been partially achieved by modern humans such as cardiac defibrillation, artificial heart, pacemakers, antibiotics, vaccines, radiotherapies etc. There are researches to perfect those treatments and I have no doubt we will be able to achieve many of those miracles as described in the Bible in the near future. Now open your eyes BIG BIG and live beyond the 21st century! The Bible is full of ultra-scientific ideas beyond our current technologies.

    God Bless.
    What the Bible is full of is myths and fairy tales. It is full of the imagining of primitive men who were ignorant of science and thus made up gods to fill the gaps in their knowledge. Fortunately many people throughout history have took off their religious blinders and discovered great things that has helped humankind greatly. No thanks to the Biblegod, people discovered antibiotics and all the other medical discoveries that helped humans to live healthier lives.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
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  10. #40
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    An Overview Of The Bible And Its God

    All Gods are created in man's image. Not the other way around.

    They were vicious and bloodthirsty. They were forever slaughtering animals and offering them as sacrifices to their God. Cruelty and pain were simply parts of their everyday lives, in regard to how they treated animals and fellow humans.

    As a creation and (externalization in their their own minds), their projected-God was likewise vicious and bloodthirsty. They (the reformers of Yahweh-Cult circa 8-7th centuries B.C.) chose their Demiurgic-Creator obviously from the pantheon of gods of their polytheistic days and made him the only God. They turned a lowly-elemental high-desert storm/cloud-god into the One and Only God of the universe. They made a god the God with a capital (G). Big-Bad Daddy.

    They subsequently used the Bible, [under the control of their priesthood of the Yahweh cult], to crush matriarchy and goddess-worship then elevate patriarchy and monotheism as controlling forces of their nascent society and belligerent people. They needed and created Yahweh for a sense of unity, focus, and nationhood.

    The Bible Anthology: Some are dull and boring, others are somewhat intriguing...And the Bible is still one of your best sources for soap opera drama, rape and sex and violence, and genocide!

    But it is not the place to go for science and history... The Iron-Age folks of the Bible were backward and primitive people (just like every one else living at that time.), so of course their books are going to backward and primitive.

    Leviticus 11

    Interminable gibberish and nonsense about what animals to eat and what ones not to eat... In verses which contain Yahweh's dietary instructions, how often do we read a fucking thing about fruits and veggies? Rarely. We hardly see a word about healthy foods like grains and legumes.

    No wonder the holy-hordes were always wondering around to and fro in the desert looking for milk and honey- they were trying to exercise off all the animal fat and red meat their all-wise God had made them ingest.

    I mean, every goddam fucking time someone fucked-up, olde El-Stormy gets "Pissy"and thunders from on high on rampage Heaven for the Priests to go kill a sheep or goat then feed it to all the other chosen. The continual cycle of fucking up-carnage of helpless animals-ingestion of the animal victims to atone for all the fuck-ups, must have made them a bunch of fat motherfuckers. Lucky for them their desert region was very large and hot.

    Where's the Veggies? LOL.

    Why did an innocent animal have to be killed every fucking-time something significant happened in the Camp? Instead of being relieved that his leprosy was finally gone, for example, a cured leper had to immediately go to his cultist-priest, who then went through a complicated process of sacrificing birds and lambs to commemorate the departed disease.

    They could never just relax, lie around and shoot the breeze, or have a picnic and a good 'ol time, or tell stories around the campfire at night. Yahweh was always making them "celebrate" by working and sacrificing. And animals were always the victims of this fucked-up "society."

    "Joshua And His Merry Band Of Homicidal-Sociopaths"
    A Very Short Commentary On the Book of Joshua,

    Chapter 7
    Verse 10: "Get up off your ass, Joshua. Be a man. Don't be such a sniveling coward. You haven't killed enough humans yet. No time to rest. Jump up and get busy."

    Verse 11: This must be where the slang term "stuff," meaning material possessions, originated. "Hey, have you seen my stuff?" Or "I have too much stuff now. I need to put some of it in storage." Or "I need to buy a bigger house to have room for all my stuff." (See George Carlin.)

    Verses 24-26: Theologians and any other people who say Yahweh is a just god haven't read these verses very closely, that's for sure! The Storm-tropper God of the Bible is anything but Just! Nothing could be more unfair than killing a man's children and animals because of his transgression. Furthermore, to kill a man because he stole a few pieces of war booty is extremely cruel.

    But think about it for a minute. The war booty- "the treasury of the Lord," was for the treasurers! It was for the use of the priests (the power structure), and to be under their control, so when a mere civilian, a small fry, stole some of it, the punishment was severe. Stone the bastard, then whether he's already dead or still barely breathing, burn him! The power of the priests must be maintained no matter what.

    No matter what you do, don't fuck with the Yahweh priesthood/cult...


    It contains some truth but not much. Most of its characters and events are symbolic, folklore, propagandic, allegorical and mythological.

    The Bible is largely a rewrite and recasts of previous myths with new and interesting-twists which the Hebrews naturally borrowed from preceding Middle Bronze Age sources circa 2100-1500 B.C. (Though nothing wrong with that...not a big deal though, just a normal progression of human culture and myth. One Mythology 101 class is all it takes to realize humans have a truly mind-boggling vivid-imagination and "a need to gather followers to Justify it." This tradition applies across time. Other myths went one better; even their gods were just as royaly screwed-up in the head too).History in the Old Testament proves Hebrews were originally polytheistic, shifting to henotheistic, shifting to monaltry and then finally to monotheism in the 6th century B.C. Actually El was the proper name for a specific god prior to it becoming used as a generic word for "god" during the assimilation process.

    This is another example of how the Yahwist cult tried to make these other neighbouring gods "disappear" by assimilating them into their god.) So mostly the Bible is a synthesis of earlier texts...and a masterpiece of plagiarism, if you will...and a book of mythology which should not be taken too seriously.

    From what i've personally observed, the Christian Conversion Doctrine or Brainwashing (a lot like Scientology is based upon Extreme-Deception and Contradictions.) is like a "form" Rape. The very act of rape itself is committing psychological "violence against a persons mind of Volitional Self-Will and Integrity." Their 'WAY' is one Dominance and Submission via TERROR!

    And having one's "Freedom-of-Thought Bound" (a perfect definition of fundamentalist religion!) is like Suffocation and "Binding." Unfortunately, their type of INSANITY is not recognized, acknowledged, or understood by our "Mental Health System." Substitute 'Reality' for 'Unreality' for a Demiurgic Storm-God' (Yaldabaoth-like a/k/a Biblegod) and 'illusion' for 'Satan' and there you have yourself an Extreme and Rabid Christian Fundamentalist/Evangelical Manichean-Dualist! LOL.

    This Psychotic-Model will indeed "Yield-Results" if pursued to its end, but in the mean time "the world and everything in HER is seen as 'demonic,' 'satanic' and 'beastly' in need of being Denied and Destroyed!"

    PSYCHOTIC LUSTY TYRANT-GOD + MINDLESS DEATH-TRIP CULT OF UNREALITY/RELIGION of BIGOTRY AND HATE = FEAR of DEATH ===> Guarantees [MIND-FUCK of RELIGIOUS SUBMISSION and BONDAGE], DOMINANCE and POWER ===> FEAR arises from acts of PSYCHOLOGICAL-RAPE and ABUSE and TERRORISM.

    All Religious Fundamentalists have this same "basic-type of Mindset" in that their source of power and growth is a PSYCHOLOGICAL-OPERATION of CRUSADE CAMPAIGN OF FEAR and PSYCHOLOGICAL-TERRORISM. They all preach a gospel and god of brotherly-love, the sweet baby jesus, of charity compassion and merciful, but in the end it is their employment of TERRORISM and HATE they think that makes them "Great!"

    The "Theory" of Soul as the principle of Personal-Consciousness and Immortality is a late invention. It's a really fiction...the theory of Mind and Immortality of the Soul is just a ["Speculative Idea"], although theoretically [neither demonstrable nor comprehensible"] as was rightly said by Kant.

    Thus, while Plato did believed in the immortality of the soul, Aristotle did not! And this is important to note here. Because in "adapting Aristotle" to Christianity, dogmatic Scholastic philosophers like St. Thomas Aquinas had to take Aristotle's metaphysics for the existence of the gods, "as unique and separable form" and ["use it for human souls!"].

    Oh, and Speaking of Animals...since [this was not done for animal souls], we find Descartes dispensing with the idea that animals have souls at all! Descartes, who allowed [that duality that both matter and mind were separate substances.] The difficulties this dualism created for him are well known!

    "HERE'S A LIST OF O.T. CHRSTIAN PROPGANDA"

    ~A basic knowledge of Canaanite culture reveals its inherent moral wickedness. The Canaanites were a brutal, aggressive people who engaged in bestiality, incest, and even child sacrifice. Deviant sexual acts were the norm.

    ~It must be remembered that God gave the Canaanite people more than sufficient time to repent of their evil ways- over 400 years (Genesis 15:13-16)! The book of Hebrews tells us that the Canaanites were "disobedient," a word that implies moral culpability on their part (Hebrews 11:31). The Canaanites were aware of God's power (Joshua 2:10-11, 9:9) and could have sought repentance. Except in rare instances, they continued their rebellion against God until the bitter end.

    ~We must remember that while it is true the Canaanite women did not fight, this in no way means they were innocent, as their seductive behavior in Numbers 25 indicates (Numbers 25:1-3). However, the question still remains: what about the children? This is not an easy question to answer but we must keep several things in mind. First, no human person (including infants) is truly innocent. The Scripture teaches that we are all born in sin (Psalm 51:5, 58:3). This implies that all people are morally culpable for Adam’s sin in some way. Infants are just as condemned from sin as adults are.

    ~God is sovereign over all of life and can take it whenever He sees fit. God, and God alone, can give life and God alone has the right to take it whenever He so chooses. In fact, He ultimately takes every person's life at death. It is not our life to begin with but God’s. While it is wrong for us to take a life, except in instances of capital punishment, war, and self-defense, this does not mean that it is wrong for God to do so. We intuitively recognize this when we accuse some person or authority who takes human life as "playing God." God is under no obligation to extend anyone's life for even another day. How and when we die is completely up to Him.

    ~It would have been cruel for God to take the lives of all the Canaanites except the infants and children. Without the protection and support of their parents, the infants and small children were likely to face death anyway due to starvation. The chances of survival for an orphan in the ancient Near East were not good.

    ~God may have provided for the salvation for those infants who would not have otherwise attained salvation if they had lived into adulthood. We must remember that the Canaanites were a barbarous and evil culture. If those infants and children had lived into adulthood, it is very likely they would have turned into something similar to their parents and been condemned to hell after they died. If all infants and young children who die before an age of moral accountability go straight to heaven (as we believe), then those children are in a far better place than if God had allowed them to live and grow to maturity in a depraved culture.
    The Meaning of Life is to Eat the Dam Apple! - "Wisdom comes from asking questions."

    I am the Demon Child of Wisdom and Understanding.
    I am HER tantric monk and SHE my Left-Hand Priestess.
    I perch on HER brink, waiting for a summons from the Queen.
    I dance in response to HER teasing and testing.
    I leap into Her depth, HER perfect and Horrible Mystery!

    לילית


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