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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Based on the normal distribution curve, tell me how many can afford pigeons for sin offerings? The chances are only about 50% to 60%, the other 20% to 25% will be able to afford more than pigeons and the other 20% to 25% will be too poor to be able to afford pigeons for sin offerings. The purpose of sin offering is based on affordabilty so that everyone contributed to the sin offerings to seek pardon and forgiveness of sin. The offerings will then be shared among all so that everyone poor and rich, could eat and enjoy the pardon from the sin offerings. This is also to celebrate the forgiveness of sins. So Craig is talking nonsense to the million of pigeons needed for the sin offeringss per year. The amount of pigeons for sin offerings were far less and there were other birds such as sparrows and turtle doves as alternatives to pigeons for the sin offerings. God sees all uncleanliness from body discharges as potential sources of diseases which may harm self and others and thus sinful.

    Body discharges are considered as potentilally infectious; that's how diseases are spread. And during the time of Moses, there were no bactericidal solutions to kill the germs that the body discharges may harbor and thus the best solution was to let nature do its work from sunlight, fresh air and dryness which is the reason why people with discharges have to be isolated for certain amount of time. Normal cleanliness are also needed to ensure better hygiene. Rest, water and food are also needed to reduce the physiological stress and to replace body fluid and protein losses.

    God Bless.
    It doesn't matter how many people could afford to offer up the pigeons or doves, the point is that your Biblegod requires a SIN offering for natural bodily functions! How insane is that? Especially when the Bible says god created the human body with those functions.

    In Genesis, your Biblegod says for humans to be fruitful and multiply, then the Bible proceeds to tell us that natural bodily functions, like menstruation, semen ejaculation, having sex and giving birth all require SIN offerings! It's one thing to have rules concerning hygiene, and quite another to require the sacrifice of SIN offerings for natural bodily functions that lead to having children! What kind of a crazy god would create the human body to have discharges as a natural part of reproduction and then call it sinful and requiring a sin offering?

    If as you say, god sees all bodily discharges as sinful ... why isn't taking a crap also called sinful? Excrement is full of bacteria and the potential cause of many diseases!
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    By my calculations 60 % of 100,000 x 12 = 720,000 sacrifices.

    And if bloody discharges are a potential source of infection, then what about al the blood shed and discharged by all these sacrifices?

    And if God's intention was to simply isolate the individual, then why require sacrifice at all?

    It just seems so irrational, wasteful and unnecessary.
    Your calculation is 720,000 birds, turtledove, sparrows, pigeons per year or 60,000 of these birds per month. Sin offerings will be consumed by all, nothing is wasted in celebration for the forgiveness of sin. Have you been for a banquet? It is the same as going for a banquet in which hundreds of birds were killed per day to celebrate a joyous occasion. Is it also irrational and wasteful and unnecessary?

    The animals an birds were all roasted which is known as burnt offerings; there is little chance of food poisoning, Furthermore, the animals chosen for the offerings were clean and to be consumed by one day.

    The sacrifice of animals in Sin offering was a reminder that if you sin, you will be like the animals and birds killed same as present day execution or hanging of murderers is a reminder not to murder. And also a reminder if you repent of your sin, you might be pardoned.

    God Bless.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig.Paardekooper View Post
    By my calculations 60 % of 100,000 x 12 = 720,000 sacrifices.

    And if bloody discharges are a potential source of infection, then what about al the blood shed and discharged by all these sacrifices?

    And if God's intention was to simply isolate the individual, then why require sacrifice at all?

    It just seems so irrational, wasteful and unnecessary.
    Hello Craig,

    Excellent questions.

    The whole idea of killing animals for the forgiveness of sin is irrational on many levels. Not only is it a source for all manner of pathogens to breed, but killing animals does NOTHING to right any wrong that has been done. The really insane thing about the sin offering required for the natural discharge of bodily fluids, is the fact that the Bible says humans were created that way by god in order to reproduce. So, why would a sin offering be required for the natural way our bodies function?

    Instead of giving laws for the sacrificing of animals, which is a potential source for all manner of diseases, the Bible should have given instructions for hygiene, and the reasons why bodily fluids can be a source of pathogens. All the killing of animals did was to make things worse! Much, much worse!

    Take care,
    Rose
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    It doesn't matter how many people could afford to offer up the pigeons or doves, the point is that your Biblegod requires a SIN offering for natural bodily functions! How insane is that? Especially when the Bible says god created the human body with those functions.

    In Genesis, your Biblegod says for humans to be fruitful and multiply, then the Bible proceeds to tell us that natural bodily functions, like menstruation, semen ejaculation, having sex and giving birth all require SIN offerings! It's one thing to have rules concerning hygiene, and quite another to require the sacrifice of SIN offerings for natural bodily functions that lead to having children! What kind of a crazy god would create the human body to have discharges as a natural part of reproduction and then call it sinful and requiring a sin offering?
    It is not sin offering for bodily function but sin offerings for bodily waste. Anything dirty is consider as sin but not sin as per se so that they be properly disposed off such as through burning. Do you keep all these waste and consumed them?No, you disposed them away properly and hygienically, by burning etc. It is a reminder that if you don't keep hygienic, those waste are going to kill you and others like you killed the sacrificial animals. It is the same as posters to remind you to wash your hands or the germs on your hands are going to harm you and others. Remember do not do unto others what you want others not to do unto you. Remember the 5 moments of hand hygiene...before and after touching, after touchng the surroundings, before a clean procedure and after contact with bodily discharges.

    If as you say, god sees all bodily discharges as sinful ... why isn't taking a crap also called sinful? Excrement is full of bacteria and the potential cause of many diseases!
    Not sin as per se but sin in the sense that if you are not careful or hygienic, it may kill you just like you killed the sacrificial animals. it is also a reminder that doing dirty (and sinful) things such as murder, wickedness, may also lead you to death; But however, if you repent by doing clean hygienic(righteous) things you may be saved by being forgiven.

    God Bless.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Hello Craig,

    Excellent questions.

    The whole idea of killing animals for the forgiveness of sin is irrational on many levels. Not only is it a source for all manner of pathogens to breed, but killing animals does NOTHING to right any wrong that has been done. The really insane thing about the sin offering required for the natural discharge of bodily fluids, is the fact that the Bible says humans were created that way by god in order to reproduce. So, why would a sin offering be required for the natural way our bodies function?

    Instead of giving laws for the sacrificing of animals, which is a potential source for all manner of diseases, the Bible should have given instructions for hygiene, and the reasons why bodily fluids can be a source of pathogens. All the killing of animals did was to make things worse! Much, much worse!

    Take care,
    Rose
    The BIble have lots of instructions for hygiene; it shows the wisdom of God, check these out:

    17 Bible Verses about Hygiene:
    Leviticus 5:2-3
    `Or if a person touches any unclean thing, whether a carcass of an unclean beast or the carcass of unclean cattle or a carcass of unclean swarming things, though it is hidden from him and he is unclean, then he will be guilty. `Or if he touches human uncleanness, of whatever sort his uncleanness may be with which he becomes unclean, and it is hidden from him, and then he comes to know it, he will be guilty.


    Leviticus 7:19-21
    `Also the flesh that touches anything unclean shall not be eaten; it shall be burned with fire. As for other flesh, anyone who is clean may eat such flesh. `But the person who eats the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings which belong to the LORD, in his uncleanness, that person shall be cut off from his people. `When anyone touches anything unclean, whether human uncleanness, or an unclean animal, or any unclean detestable thing, and eats of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings which belong to the LORD, that person shall be cut off from his people.'"

    Leviticus 11:24-47
    `By these, moreover, you will be made unclean: whoever touches their carcasses becomes unclean until evening, and whoever picks up any of their carcasses shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening. `Concerning all the animals which divide the hoof but do not make a split hoof, or which do not chew cud, they are unclean to you: whoever touches them becomes unclean. read more.

    Leviticus 13:1-3
    Then the LORD spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying, "When a man has on the skin of his body a swelling or a scab or a bright spot, and it becomes an infection of leprosy on the skin of his body, then he shall be brought to Aaron the priest or to one of his sons the priests. "The priest shall look at the mark on the skin of the body, and if the hair in the infection has turned white and the infection appears to be deeper than the skin of his body, it is an infection of leprosy; when the priest has looked at him, he shall pronounce him unclean.

    Leviticus 14:1-8
    Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, "This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing. Now he shall be brought to the priest, and the priest shall go out to the outside of the camp. Thus the priest shall look, and if the infection of leprosy has been healed in the leper, read more.

    Leviticus 15:1-13
    The LORD also spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel, and say to them, `When any man has a discharge from his body, his discharge is unclean. `This, moreover, shall be his uncleanness in his discharge: it is his uncleanness whether his body allows its discharge to flow or whether his body obstructs its discharge. read more.

    Leviticus 22:4-8
    `No man of the descendants of Aaron, who is a leper or who has a discharge, may eat of the holy gifts until he is clean. And if one touches anything made unclean by a corpse or if a man has a seminal emission, or if a man touches any teeming things by which he is made unclean, or any man by whom he is made unclean, whatever his uncleanness; a person who touches any such shall be unclean until evening, and shall not eat of the holy gifts unless he has bathed his body in water. read more.

    Numbers 9:6-10
    But there were some men who were unclean because of the dead person, so that they could not observe Passover on that day; so they came before Moses and Aaron on that day. Those men said to him, "Though we are unclean because of the dead person, why are we restrained from presenting the offering of the LORD at its appointed time among the sons of Israel?" Moses therefore said to them, "Wait, and I will listen to what the LORD will command concerning you." read more.

    Numbers 19:1-22
    Then the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, "This is the statute of the law which the LORD has commanded, saying, `Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed. `You shall give it to Eleazar the priest, and it shall be brought outside the camp and be slaughtered in his presence. read more.

    Numbers 31:19-20
    "And you, camp outside the camp seven days; whoever has killed any person and whoever has touched any slain, purify yourselves, you and your captives, on the third day and on the seventh day. "You shall purify for yourselves every garment and every article of leather and all the work of goats' hair, and all articles of wood."

    Deuteronomy 21:22-23
    "If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.

    Deuteronomy 23:10-11
    "If there is among you any man who is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, then he must go outside the camp; he may not reenter the camp. "But it shall be when evening approaches, he shall bathe himself with water, and at sundown he may reenter the camp.

    Deuteronomy 24:8
    "Be careful against an infection of leprosy, that you diligently observe and do according to all that the Levitical priests teach you; as I have commanded them, so you shall be careful to do.

    2 Chronicles 26:21
    King Uzziah was a leper to the day of his death; and he lived in a separate house, being a leper, for he was cut off from the house of the LORD. And Jotham his son was over the king's house judging the people of the land.

    Matthew 23:25-26
    "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. "You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

    Mark 7:1-8
    The Pharisees and some of the scribes gathered around Him when they had come from Jerusalem, and had seen that some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed. (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they carefully wash their hands, thus observing the traditions of the elders; read more.
    - See more at: http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topic....APTxiRE7.dpuf

    God Bless
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    It is not sin offering for bodily function but sin offerings for bodily waste. Anything dirty is consider as sin but not sin as per se so that they be properly disposed off such as through burning. Do you keep all these waste and consumed them?No, you disposed them away properly and hygienically, by burning etc. It is a reminder that if you don't keep hygienic, those waste are going to kill you and others like you killed the sacrificial animals. It is the same as posters to remind you to wash your hands or the germs on your hands are going to harm you and others. Remember do not do unto others what you want others not to do unto you. Remember the 5 moments of hand hygiene...before and after touching, after touchng the surroundings, before a clean procedure and after contact with bodily discharges.
    Now you are the one who needs to do your homework! Even the act of reproduction requiring semen, which is not a bodily waste is considered to be UNCLEAN! The very act of being fruitful and multiplying is considered unclean! How insane is that?
    Lev.15:16-18 And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water,and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, andbe unclean until the even.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Not sin as per se but sin in the sense that if you are not careful or hygienic, it may kill you just like you killed the sacrificial animals. it is also a reminder that doing dirty (and sinful) things such as murder, wickedness, may also lead you to death; But however, if you repent by doing clean hygienic(righteous) things you may be saved by being forgiven.

    God Bless.
    All you are doing is making one lame excuse after another. It's really quite pathetic for an intelligent man to be making up excuses for why primitive men thought that killing animals would cause their sins to be forgiven. It makes you look very foolish.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Now you are the one who needs to do your homework! Even the act of reproduction requiring semen, which is not a bodily waste is considered to be UNCLEAN! The very act of being fruitful and multiplying is considered unclean! How insane is that?
    [INDENT]Lev.15:16-18 And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water,and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, andbe unclean until the even.
    I have done my homework, thank you.
    Wake Up! The production of semen is not unclean, it is the emission that is unclean as if it is not wash, germs will grow. Excess or "aged" semen is a waste and is naturally excreted either through nocturnal emission or through the urine. You need to wash yourself to keep clean and hygienic to prevent diseases.

    All you are doing is making one lame excuse after another. It's really quite pathetic for an intelligent man to be making up excuses for why primitive men thought that killing animals would cause their sins to be forgiven. It makes you look very foolish.
    Foolishness is in the eyes of the beholder. Yes, killing animals caused their sins to be forgiven and provide nutrition for their life. It is the same as killing germs caused the eradication of diseases and ensuring we live healthily.

    God Bless.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I have done my homework, thank you.
    Wake Up! The production of semen is not unclean, it is the emission that is unclean as if it is not wash, germs will grow. Excess or "aged" semen is a waste and is naturally excreted either through nocturnal emission or through the urine. You need to wash yourself to keep clean and hygienic to prevent diseases.
    You come up with every excuse imaginable to try and justify the superstitious thinking of primitive men. The sad thing is I think you actually believe what those crazy, ludicrous rules in the Bible are saying.

    Semen ejaculated through nocturnal emission is not "aged" waste semen, it is perfectly viable to fertilize an egg. Peoples excrement really is unclean, yet they weren't considered unclean until evening after they took a crap ... what's up with that? All the Bible needed to say, was to make sure and wash yourself after discharging bodily fluids or solids ... everything else is just superstitious garbage.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Foolishness is in the eyes of the beholder. Yes, killing animals caused their sins to be forgiven and provide nutrition for their life. It is the same as killing germs caused the eradication of diseases and ensuring we live healthily.

    God Bless.
    I cannot believe that you actually think killing animals forgives peoples sinful behavior ... and then you compare killing animals to killing germs?!?! I guess you really do think like the primitive men who wrote the Bible thought.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    You come up with every excuse imaginable to try and justify the superstitious thinking of primitive men. The sad thing is I think you actually believe what those crazy, ludicrous rules in the Bible are saying.

    Semen ejaculated through nocturnal emission is not "aged" waste semen, it is perfectly viable to fertilize an egg. Peoples excrement really is unclean, yet they weren't considered unclean until evening after they took a crap ... what's up with that? All the Bible needed to say, was to make sure and wash yourself after discharging bodily fluids or solids ... everything else is just superstitious garbage.

    I cannot believe that you actually think killing animals forgives peoples sinful behavior ... and then you compare killing animals to killing germs?!?! I guess you really do think like the primitive men who wrote the Bible thought.
    I am not trying to justify any primitive people. The primitive people concept is your misguided thinking. I am thinking of a super intelligent force teaching those people about hygiene and other healthy lifestyle.

    When a man has an emission, there will be loss or imbalance in their hormones and there is a loss of some fluid and other "things" and a certain amount of time is needed before the loss is replaced. This is the time where rest is needed till evening for the body physiology to return to normalcy. Meanwhile is the time to keep clean by washing or bathing away the bodily discharge.

    What I mean is killing animals does not forgives people of sin but serves several purposes including forgiveness of sin:
    1. As a reminder that if you sin, you will end up like the killed animals.
    2. The killed animals serve as a witness of the covenant between God and man that the sins were forgiven in the sin offerings, for blessings etc.
    3. The killed animals were consumed to celebrate the forgiveness of sin. This is a joyous occasion
    4. The killed animals shows that God has the power to kill as well as to forgive, resurrect or reincarnate at will.
    5. For food as a charity to be share among all which even the poor who cannot afford meat can also partake and enjoy and thus ensure proper nutrition.

    We humans do the same, take an analogy, we killed animals and plants:
    1. To celebrate a joyous occasion such as New Year's day, Easter, Christmas day etc.
    2. To remind of certain important events such as Independence Day, Birthday, Marriage, Anniversary etc.
    3. As a confirmation of a business deal or important agreements
    4. As a gesture of friendship such as in social interactions, parties, dates etc.
    5. For food to meet our daily nutritional requirements
    6. For thrills and sports recreation.
    7. For scientific experiments for drug effects, anatomy and physiological studies, environmental, diseases etc.
    8. For their properties such as hides, fur, ivory, feathers, horns, organs etc.

    Are these killings of animals and plants irrational, wasteful and unnecessary?

    Incorrigible criminals and sinners such as serial rapists, murderers are like irritants, pests which should be got rid off or at least forever contained. Keep them or release them for what since they are incorrigible?.... to create more harms and evils for everybody including you and me and our generations? To love thy neighbor means you do not want any harm to be done to thy neighbors, so why release all these incorrigible criminals and sinners to harm thy neighbors? And how are we to account and justify and with justice to the innocent victims who are our neighbors for the harm inflicted by the release of these incorrigible criminals and sinners? It's like keeping Hitler...for what? For WW3 and get everyone killed?

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 05-31-2014 at 02:32 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I am not trying to justify any primitive people. The primitive people concept is your misguided thinking. I am thinking of a super intelligent force teaching those people about hygiene and other healthy lifestyle.

    When a man has an emission, there will be loss or imbalance in their hormones and there is a loss of some fluid and other "things" and a certain amount of time is needed before the loss is replaced. This is the time where rest is needed till evening for the body physiology to return to normalcy. Meanwhile is the time to keep clean by washing or bathing away the bodily discharge.
    A healthy lifestyle of cleanliness and adequate rest is always best, but that is not what we are talking about. The whole point of this conversation is the primitive concept found in the Bible that you are trying to defend, of needing to offer a bloody animal sacrifice for normal bodily functions! You are continually trying to justify the barbaric idea that the sacrificing of animals somehow cleanses and forgives sin, and that normal bodily functions are sinful ... That is WRONG!

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    What I mean is killing animals does not forgives people of sin but serves several purposes including forgiveness of sin:
    1. As a reminder that if you sin, you will end up like the killed animals.
    2. The killed animals serve as a witness of the covenant between God and man that the sins were forgiven in the sin offerings, for blessings etc.
    3. The killed animals were consumed to celebrate the forgiveness of sin. This is a joyous occasion
    4. The killed animals shows that God has the power to kill as well as to forgive, resurrect or reincarnate at will.
    5. For food as a charity to be share among all which even the poor who cannot afford meat can also partake and enjoy and thus ensure proper nutrition.

    We humans do the same, take an analogy, we killed animals and plants:
    1. To celebrate a joyous occasion such as New Year's day, Easter, Christmas day etc.
    2. To remind of certain important events such as Independence Day, Birthday, Marriage, Anniversary etc.
    3. As a confirmation of a business deal or important agreements
    4. As a gesture of friendship such as in social interactions, parties, dates etc.
    5. For food to meet our daily nutritional requirements
    6. For thrills and sports recreation.
    7. For scientific experiments for drug effects, anatomy and physiological studies, environmental, diseases etc.
    8. For their properties such as hides, fur, ivory, feathers, horns, organs etc.

    Are these killings of animals and plants irrational, wasteful and unnecessary?
    There you go again, saying that one of the purposes of sacrificing animals was the forgiveness of sin!

    My two main points:

    1. NATURAL BODILY FUNCTIONS LIKE SEX, MENSTRUATION, SEMEN EMISSIONS AND GIVING BIRTH ARE NOT SINFUL!

    2. BLOODY ANIMAL SACRIFICES DO NOT CLEANSE THE BODY, OR FORGIVE SIN!


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Incorrigible criminals and sinners such as serial rapists, murderers are like irritants, pests which should be got rid off or at least forever contained. Keep them or release them for what since they are incorrigible?.... to create more harms and evils for everybody including you and me and our generations? To love thy neighbor means you do not want any harm to be done to thy neighbors, so why release all these incorrigible criminals and sinners to harm thy neighbors? And how are we to account and justify and with justice to the innocent victims who are our neighbors for the harm inflicted by the release of these incorrigible criminals and sinners? It's like keeping Hitler...for what? For WW3 and get everyone killed?

    God Bless.
    I don't recall anyone saying that criminals should be released from prison??? Where did you come up with that crazy idea??? Oh, I know! That's what Christianity teaches ... forgive all the criminals if they confess Jesus, and condemn all those who don't believe!

    According to your Christian belief system, if Hitler had asked Jesus for forgiveness, he would have been instantly forgiven of all his heinous crimes.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

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