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  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Do your homework and read Exodus! The Egyptians treated the Israelites harshly; their slavery laws were much harsher than the Hebrews. If the slaves run away they would be severely punished unlike the Hebrews.
    God sent plagues and killed the first born because the Egyptians were very heart-hardened in letting the Hebrew slaves go and by doing that they will have to let the Hebrews slaves go quickly so that they willo receive no more received misfortunes and punishments from God. This is analogous to USA dropping atomic bombs on Japan to force a quick surrender as the Japanese soldiers were well known to fight to the last man and Japan surrendered so as to to receive more destructions and death form the terrible atomic bombs.
    I think you are the one who needs to do your biblical homework! The slavery laws that the Biblegod gave the Hebrews allowed them to beat their foreign slaves as harshly as they wished, as long as they didn't kill them. It was only the Hebrews slaves that who couldn't be treated as harshly as they were in Egypt.

    You sound like an ignorant Christian who doesn't know his Bible, when you babble on about slavery. Like I said, the whole point of the Exodus was to free the Hebrews from the harsh and rigorous slavery imposed on them by the Egyptians, but then once the Hebrews were freed they were allowed to beat their foreign slaves harshly, as long as they didn't kill them.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    The whole point of Exodus is to show how God helped to bring the Hebrews out from the slavery and harsh treatments of the Egyptians. The slavery treatment of the Hebrews were much humane than the slavery treatment they received from the Eqyptians.
    Yes, the treatment of the Hebrew slaves was much better, but they were allowed to treat their foreign slaves as rigorous and harshly as they wished, as long as they didn't kill them. Christians always say that god is not a respecter of persons, well, he sure didn't respect the foreign slaves as much as he did the Hebrews.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I never support slavery but just to illustrate the following:

    1. God's treatment of slavery is much more humane than any other tribes or society. This is to show an example to all people how slaves are to be humanely treated, but throughout the centuries people did not learned and continue the harsh treatment of slaves.

    2. Such harsh treatment of slaves by men will gradually lead to the abolition of slavery by rightist groups. Somethings cannot be done quickly but gradually so that there is time to slowly cope and adjust to the changes. This is analogous to forcing primitive tribes from the Amazon jungles to live in an ultra modern society immediately which will only cause their untimely death due to inability to cope with stress, lifestyle and diseases. This is a known issue.

    God Bless.
    You sure do support the Biblegod allowing slavery ... in practically every post you write, you defend and make excuses for the slavery that is condoned and allowed in the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by CHW
    1. God's treatment of slavery is much more humane than any other tribes or society. This is to show an example to all people how slaves are to be humanely treated, but throughout the centuries people did not learned and continue the harsh treatment of slaves.
    Oh, so it's okay to have slaves as long as you treat them humane?

    Quote Originally Posted by CHW
    2. Such harsh treatment of slaves by men will gradually lead to the abolition of slavery by rightist groups. Somethings cannot be done quickly but gradually so that there is time to slowly cope and adjust to the changes. This is analogous to forcing primitive tribes from the Amazon jungles to live in an ultra modern society immediately which will only cause their untimely death due to inability to cope with stress, lifestyle and diseases. This is a known issue.
    The laws given to Moses on Mount Sinai happened very quickly, the Hebrews who were waiting at the base of the Mountain didn't even have time to quit worshiping their Golden Calf before they slaughtered for disobedience! And what about the laws governing the treatment of Hebrew slaves? Hebrew slaves could only serve as "Hired servants", could not be sold as bondmen, and could not be treated harshly. Why weren't those same laws applied to foreign slaves? The Hebrews didn't seem to have any problem adjusting to the slavery laws that applied to them.

    Lev.25:38-43 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God. And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return. For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen. Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.


    Your defense of god allowing slavery is pathetic, and makes you look like a foolish man.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

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  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    I think you are the one who needs to do your biblical homework! The slavery laws that the Biblegod gave the Hebrews allowed them to beat their foreign slaves as harshly as they wished, as long as they didn't kill them. It was only the Hebrews slaves that who couldn't be treated as harshly as they were in Egypt.

    You sound like an ignorant Christian who doesn't know his Bible, when you babble on about slavery. Like I said, the whole point of the Exodus was to free the Hebrews from the harsh and rigorous slavery imposed on them by the Egyptians, but then once the Hebrews were freed they were allowed to beat their foreign slaves harshly, as long as they didn't kill them.
    This is where you are wrong. Supposed if you smoke cannabis, you will get the death penalty, will you dare to take that risk? Obviously No. Same with the slave master, with that law, the master will take care not to beat the slave so severely that the slave died or he will face the death penalty. On the other hand, supposed you are the slave, and the master beat you hard, you will most likely feign dead or half dead or comatose so as to instil fear to the master that you are dying soon and thus stop his beatings. Your feigning of death will allow you to rest at least a few days before physiological need like hunger and thirst will make you get up on your feet.

    Yes, the treatment of the Hebrew slaves was much better, but they were allowed to treat their foreign slaves as rigorous and harshly as they wished, as long as they didn't kill them. Christians always say that god is not a respecter of persons, well, he sure didn't respect the foreign slaves as much as he did the Hebrews.
    Not really, the treatment may be less humane, same as what every country did to foreigners; foreigners cannot enjoy the same benefits as citizens.

    You sure do support the Biblegod allowing slavery ... in practically every post you write, you defend and make excuses for the slavery that is condoned and allowed in the Bible.
    Oh, so it's okay to have slaves as long as you treat them humane?
    Slavery is allowed during ancient times in every culture and in every age. It was a norm in every ancient society. However, it was not the norm to treat slaves humanely and God was setting an example using the Hebrews. Anything takes time to erase away or developed or change..... you may call that evolution. If you believe in evolution, why not blame it on evolution which evolved human slavery?

    The laws given to Moses on Mount Sinai happened very quickly, the Hebrews who were waiting at the base of the Mountain didn't even have time to quit worshiping their Golden Calf before they slaughtered for disobedience! And what about the laws governing the treatment of Hebrew slaves? Hebrew slaves could only serve as "Hired servants", could not be sold as bondmen, and could not be treated harshly. Why weren't those same laws applied to foreign slaves? The Hebrews didn't seem to have any problem adjusting to the slavery laws that applied to them.

    INDENT]Lev.25:38-43 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God. And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return. For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen. Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.
    I have already explained. Should a country treat foreigners the same as its citizens so that they enjoy the same benefits as citizens? there must be distinct advantage between a citizen and foreigner. Besides most foreigners were ex-enemies or masters who treated the Hebrews slaves harshly, shouldn't they be treated more harshly than the Hebrews themselves?....an eye for an eye? That is the reason in the passage that they were reminded that they were once slaves under Egyptian rule....."they are my servants which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt".

    Your defense of god allowing slavery is pathetic, and makes you look like a foolish man.
    Look at yourself in the mirror, it makes you looks like a pathetic fool when you make God looks so bad when He is not.

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 07-17-2014 at 10:17 AM.
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  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    You sound like an ignorant Christian who doesn't know his Bible, when you babble on about slavery. Like I said, the whole point of the Exodus was to free the Hebrews from the harsh and rigorous slavery imposed on them by the Egyptians, but then once the Hebrews were freed they were allowed to beat their foreign slaves harshly, as long as they didn't kill them.
    This is where you are wrong. Supposed if you smoke cannabis, you will get the death penalty, will you dare to take that risk? Obviously No. Same with the slave master, with that law, the master will take care not to beat the slave so severely that the slave died or he will face the death penalty. On the other hand, supposed you are the slave, and the master beat you hard, you will most likely feign dead or half dead or comatose so as to instil fear to the master that you are dying soon and thus stop his beatings. Your feigning of death will allow you to rest at least a few days before physiological need like hunger and thirst will make you get up on your feet.
    Your babbling makes no sense ...

    I am not wrong, I am absolutely right about what the Bible says! A Hebrew can treat his slave as harshly as he chooses as long as the slave doesn't die, because the slave is his property.


    1. Exo.21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.




    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    Yes, the treatment of the Hebrew slaves was much better, but they were allowed to treat their foreign slaves as rigorous and harshly as they wished, as long as they didn't kill them. Christians always say that god is not a respecter of persons, well, he sure didn't respect the foreign slaves as much as he did the Hebrews.
    Not really, the treatment may be less humane, same as what every country did to foreigners; foreigners cannot enjoy the same benefits as citizens.
    If the treatment is less humane for foreigners, then that means the Bible teaches that god is a respecter of persons depending on their race and gender.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Slavery is allowed during ancient times in every culture and in every age. It was a norm in every ancient society. However, it was not the norm to treat slaves humanely and God was setting an example using the Hebrews. Anything takes time to erase away or developed or change..... you may call that evolution. If you believe in evolution, why not blame it on evolution which evolved human slavery?
    Oh, so because every culture in biblical times allowed slavery that means the Biblegod must also allow slavery.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I have already explained. Should a country treat foreigners the same as its citizens so that they enjoy the same benefits as citizens? there must be distinct advantage between a citizen and foreigner. Besides most foreigners were ex-enemies or masters who treated the Hebrews slaves harshly, shouldn't they be treated more harshly than the Hebrews themselves?....an eye for an eye? That is the reason in the passage that they were reminded that they were once slaves under Egyptian rule....."they are my servants which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt".
    I am not talking about countries, I am talking about the Bible and its god. The Biblegod condones and sanctions slavery, he also decrees that Hebrew slaves are not to be treated as harshly as foreign slaves, and Hebrew slaves must be hired and cannot be sold.

    1. The Biblegod sanctions and condones slavery

    2. The Biblegod is a respecter of persons



    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Look at yourself in the mirror, it makes you looks like a pathetic fool when you make God looks so bad when He is not.

    God Bless.
    Everything I say about the Biblegod comes directly from the Bible, and I always quote chapter and verse! You are just so blinded by your religion that you refuse to see what is right in from of your face.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

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    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

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  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    ALL people are entitled to equal rights but not ALL people can achieve equal rights.... therefore there is no equality.
    I'm glad you agree ALL people are entitled to equal human rights, even though in one of your last posts you said not all people were entitled to equal human rights because one size doesn't fit all people. Please make up your mind, which is it?

    If you agree that all people are entitled to equal human rights, then you disagree with the Bible and its god.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Equal human rights ALWAYS trumps everything else!
    Then why did the Germans accepted Hitler as their leader because majority supported him; majority rules....use your brain Rose. Democracy works in this way because democracy s people's majority rights..... I am suspecting you don't believe in democracy.
    Yes, equal human rights ALWAYS trumps everything else! I'm glad you agree. Majority rule does not necessarily mean democracy and equal human rights for everyone, just like in Nazi Germany where the majority of the people believed Hitler.

    If you believe like I do that equal human rights always trumps everything else, then you disagree with the Bible and its god.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Well said, start with the easiest ones first whilst keeping in mind that there is no way equal human rights can be achieved. Same as with poverty, people helped those that they can who are in needs yet knowing that poverty can never be humanly solved. Jesus said, "You will always have the poor with you but you will not always have me"...UNDERSTAND THE MEANING?

    God Bless.
    The problem with the Bible, is that it decrees laws that blatantly go against human rights, so the only way people who believe in the Biblegod can ever achieve equal human rights is to break the laws given in the Bible.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Your babbling makes no sense ...
    Same as yours, thank you.

    I am not wrong, I am absolutely right about what the Bible says! A Hebrew can treat his slave as harshly as he chooses as long as the slave doesn't die, because the slave is his property.


    [LIST=1][*]Exo.21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
    The Bible never says that the master can treat his slave as harshly as he chooses, if so, why buys him a wife to have children and everything paid for and give some allowance after his "contract" is over?

    In the Orient and the Middle East, we believe in using punishment.....spare the rod, spoil the child.
    The above passage simply says that because the slave is bought, the master has the right to punish him if he made mistakes but if he over did it out of uncontrolled anger or even if unintentionally and killed the slave, the master dies too. Therefore, no master will want to take the risk to kill a slave. If the slave is well after resting one or two days means that the punishment is not severe or the slave feign his condition to avoid severe punishment. If severe, the master will tend to lose the service of the slave for much more days and to care for him till he recovers and if he maimed or disfigured the slave as a result of the punishment, he is to let him go free.

    If the treatment is less humane for foreigners, then that means the Bible teaches that god is a respecter of persons depending on their race and gender.
    No, it simply means that God is fair, an eye for an eye, "do unto others, what you want others to do unto you". They did that to the Hebrew slaves, so "you" will be treated likewise. However, the treatment to the foreign slaves is still considered more humane than other contemporary societies. Same as no country in the world will treat foreigners better than their own citizens.

    Oh, so because every culture in biblical times allowed slavery that means the Biblegod must also allow slavery.
    If you champion equal human rights, you expect one to be punish equally. Does it make sense and just if the Hebrew captives were treated as slaves but the foreign captives were not?

    I am not talking about countries, I am talking about the Bible and its god. The Biblegod condones and sanctions slavery, he also decrees that Hebrew slaves are not to be treated as harshly as foreign slaves, and Hebrew slaves must be hired and cannot be sold.

    1. The Biblegod sanctions and condones slavery

    2. The Biblegod is a respecter of persons
    I have said umpteen times that if you want to know God more, you must study human behavior; same as anthropologists study apes to understand human behaviors and nature because apes behaves almost the same as humans except that our ways and thoughts are higher than them. God behaves almost the same as humans because both knows good and evil except that His ways and thoughts are higher than ours. Same, every country practise the same laws concerning POWs who are treated like slaves thus sanctioning and condoning slavery....well this is equal rights.

    Everything I say about the Biblegod comes directly from the Bible, and I always quote chapter and verse! You are just so blinded by your religion that you refuse to see what is right in from of your face.
    So are mine. I purposely want you to quote chapters and verses so that I can refute your outstanding error thoughts and force you to diligently search the scriptures. Your atheism has blinded you beyond repair....so sad......

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 07-17-2014 at 04:49 PM.
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    Seek and You shall find,
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  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    I am not wrong, I am absolutely right about what the Bible says! A Hebrew can treat his slave as harshly as he chooses as long as the slave doesn't die, because the slave is his property.


    Exo.21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

    The Bible never says that the master can treat his slave as harshly as he chooses, if so, why buys him a wife to have children and everything paid for and give some allowance after his "contract" is over?

    In the Orient and the Middle East, we believe in using punishment.....spare the rod, spoil the child.
    The above passage simply says that because the slave is bought, the master has the right to punish him if he made mistakes but if he over did it out of uncontrolled anger or even if unintentionally and killed the slave, the master dies too. Therefore, no master will want to take the risk to kill a slave. If the slave is well after resting one or two days means that the punishment is not severe or the slave feign his condition to avoid severe punishment. If severe, the master will tend to lose the service of the slave for much more days and to care for him till he recovers and if he maimed or disfigured the slave as a result of the punishment, he is to let him go free.
    The Bible most certainly does say a master can treat his slave anyway he wants as long as he doesn't kill him, and the Bible doesn't say the master will be killed if he kills his slave, it ONLY says he will be PUNISHED.

    Nowhere in the Bible does it say the master buys the slave a wife to have children with everything paid for! What the Bible does say is that if a master gives a slave a wife, the wife cannot go free with her slave/husband because she remains the property of the master, along with any children she has from her slave/husband. Read your Bible and quit making stuff up!

    The Bible sanctions slavery and allows slave owners to beat their slaves cruelly and severely as long as they don't die!

    If you believe in punishing people by beating them with instruments you are an abusive man, it is abuse to hit and beat people, no matter what the Bible says.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    If the treatment is less humane for foreigners, then that means the Bible teaches that god is a respecter of persons depending on their race and gender.
    No, it simply means that God is fair, an eye for an eye, "do unto others, what you want others to do unto you". They did that to the Hebrew slaves, so "you" will be treated likewise. However, the treatment to the foreign slaves is still considered more humane than other contemporary societies. Same as no country in the world will treat foreigners better than their own citizens.
    There you go making stuff up again. You don't know anything about how the Hebrews treated their foreign slaves compared to the surrounding societies and the Bible say nothing about it. The Bible does tells us that the Hebrews could buy slaves from the surrounding nations if they so desired, and they could keep those slaves and their families forever and pass them down as inheritance.

    What I said about the Biblegod being a respecter of persons still holds true because anytime you treat a particular race or gender differently you are respecting one over the other.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I have said umpteen times that if you want to know God more, you must study human behavior; same as anthropologists study apes to understand human behaviors and nature because apes behaves almost the same as humans except that our ways and thoughts are higher than them. God behaves almost the same as humans because both knows good and evil except that His ways and thoughts are higher than ours. Same, every country practise the same laws concerning POWs who are treated like slaves thus sanctioning and condoning slavery....well this is equal rights.
    You are right! If you want to know about the Biblegod you need to study human behavior, especially men. The reason I no longer believe in the Biblegod is because I woke up to the fact that he acts and thinks exactly like men.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    So are mine. I purposely want you to quote chapters and verses so that I can refute your outstanding error thoughts and force you to diligently search the scriptures. Your atheism has blinded you beyond repair....so sad......

    God Bless.
    You do not quote the Bible! All you do is make stuff up. I would like to see you quote something from the Bible to support the stuff you say about slavery. I dare you.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
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  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    You do not quote the Bible! All you do is make stuff up. I would like to see you quote something from the Bible to support the stuff you say about slavery. I dare you.
    It would be helpful for all parties to a discussion on this forum to give a verse reference whenever it is said; "the Bible says ......"

    Having chapter and verse is the starting point to looking at context and the background. To understand why God does things the way he does, is to have Wisdom. This is not man's wisdom, but is the Wisdom of God.

    Man's wisdom is poles apart from the God's Wisdom. Those who fear (respect) God start by acknowledging the Wisdom of God without first understanding. That is what is meant by (Prov 1:7); The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge (wisdom):

    That is why, as the writer of Proverbs says (Prov 4:7); Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

    The more one begins to understand the Wisdom of God, it is accepted that God always acts wisely. Our understanding of God's wisdom comes later when more facts come to light and the answer is found.

    All thoughts should be brought to the table, because we need to have as much information as possible before deciding on a matter. God knows far more than a man or men collectively can ever know and that is why God is wiser in his actions. I am reminded of the post I have just replied to where Domenic reminds us of Bath Sheba's responsibility for the adulterous affair with King David. Whether true or not, all such thoughts have to be examined for their merit.

  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    The Bible most certainly does say a master can treat his slave anyway he wants as long as he doesn't kill him, and the Bible doesn't say the master will be killed if he kills his slave, it ONLY says he will be PUNISHED.
    Read your Bible: Punish for what? Obviously for murder if the slave dies; and the Jewish penalty for murder is death....A eye for an eye, a life for a life. Below is an interesting read about Jewish treatment of slaves:

    http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVa...005/08-24c.htm

    The slave laws of the Old Testament were unusually kind to slaves when compared to those of surrounding countries. Slave owners were specifically commanded, "You shall not rule over him with rigor, but you shall fear your God" (Leviticus 25:43).

    The law recognized two classes of slaves: Hebrew slaves and Gentile slaves.

    Hebrew slaves could only be held by a master for six years. "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing" (Exodus 21:7). In addition, every 50 years a celebration was held called the year of Jubilee. During that year all Hebrew slaves were freed regardless of how long they have served. "And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a Jubilee for you; and each of you shall return to his possession, and each of you shall return to his family. ... And if one of your brethren who dwells by you becomes poor, and sells himself to you, you shall not compel him to serve as a slave. As a hired servant and a sojourner he shall be with you, and shall serve you until the Year of Jubilee. And then he shall depart from you-he and his children with him-and shall return to his own family. He shall return to the possession of his fathers" (Leviticus 25:10, 39-41).

    A freed slave was given provisions as he returned to normal society. "If your brother, a Hebrew man, or a Hebrew woman, is sold to you and serves you six years, then in the seventh year you shall let him go free from you. And when you send him away free from you, you shall not let him go away empty-handed; you shall supply him liberally from your flock, from your threshing floor, and from your winepress. From what the LORD has blessed you with, you shall give to him" (Deuteronomy 15:12-14).

    It might seem surprising, but Hebrew slaves were given the option of remaining with their current master permanently. Yet it makes sense. As a slave, they enjoyed many rights and were feed and clothed. For some people, such a life was preferable to attempting to make it own their own. "And if it happens that he says to you, 'I will not go away from you,' because he loves you and your house, since he prospers with you, then you shall take an awl and thrust it through his ear to the door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also to your female servant you shall do likewise" (Deuteronomy 15:16-17).

    The main difference between a Hebrew slave and a Gentile slave is that the Gentile slave did not have the right of automatic freedom. However, other rights and protections remained.

    In Israel, a runaway slave from another country could not be forced to return to his master. "You shall not give back to his master the slave who has escaped from his master to you. He may dwell with you in your midst, in the place which he chooses within one of your gates, where it seems best to him; you shall not oppress him" (Deuteronomy 23:15-16).

    While an unruly slave may be beaten, he could not be put to death or permanently injured by the master. "And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property" (Exodus 21:20-21). The punishment for death of an individual was death regardless whether the person was a slave or not, so this would restrain a master's hand. Further, if a person is permanently injured due to a beating, the slave is immediately freed. "If a man strikes the eye of his male or female servant, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for the sake of his eye. And if he knocks out the tooth of his male or female servant, he shall let him go free for the sake of his tooth" (Exodus 21:26-27). It is likely that this was in addition to the normal punishment of inflicting the same damage on the abuser (Deuteronomy 19:21). In other words, the law regarding surviving after a beating was to encourage thought about cause and effect. People die of old age, disease, and unsuspected ailments. So when a slave died, was it due to the beating or not? Given the lack of sophisticated analysis, the judge's decision was simplified. If a slave died shortly after a beating, the judge was to assume the master used excessive force and he was to be tried as a murder. If the slave did not receive a permanent injury and died several days after a beating, it would be assumed by the judge that the death was a coincident.
    Nowhere in the Bible does it say the master buys the slave a wife to have children with everything paid for! What the Bible does say is that if a master gives a slave a wife, the wife cannot go free with her slave/husband because she remains the property of the master, along with any children she has from her slave/husband. Read your Bible and quit making stuff up!
    Read your Bible. The slave can't even support himself, how was he to support his wife and children unless with the expense of the master? Even if the master did not buy the slave a wife which is not an impossibility,when the master give the slave his wife, it was probably one of his wives or concubines and as such the wife belongs to the master and therefore the slave has no right to the wife and children when he left. It is an old custom call wife lending in which one lends a wife to someone so that he can have children. It is analogous to current surrogate mothers or swinging. I have posted an article on the custom of wife lending:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swinging_(sexual_practice)

    Excerpt:
    Arabia:
    Wife-lending was a practice in pre-Islamic Arabia whereby husbands allowed their wives to live with "men of distinction" to produce noble offspring. The husband, who abstained while his wife lived with the other man, would then be socially considered the father of the child.

    The Bible sanctions slavery and allows slave owners to beat their slaves cruelly and severely as long as they don't die!
    Rubbish, which employer will want o beat his employee so severely that he have to pay his medical bills and look after him...who is at a greater financial loss and loss of work hours? It is like a slap in his own face. Same as if you should punished your own child severely, whose advantage is this and who suffered the most?

    If you believe in punishing people by beating them with instruments you are an abusive man, it is abuse to hit and beat people, no matter what the Bible says.
    Spare the rod and spoil the child (Proverbs). Sorry, I am never an abusive man, neither were my parents even though we were caned as kids for being naughty.

    There you go making stuff up again. You don't know anything about how the Hebrews treated their foreign slaves compared to the surrounding societies and the Bible say nothing about it. The Bible does tells us that the Hebrews could buy slaves from the surrounding nations if they so desired, and they could keep those slaves and their families forever and pass them down as inheritance.
    Neither do you know. Nothing on earth is forever....use your brain! It simply means lifelong employment and they are supposed to release all slaves during the year of Jubilee.

    What I said about the Biblegod being a respecter of persons still holds true because anytime you treat a particular race or gender differently you are respecting one over the other.
    Everybody who are righteous and did the will of the Father in heaven goes into the KIngdom of heaven regardless of race and gender, slave or master.

    You are right! If you want to know about the Biblegod you need to study human behavior, especially men. The reason I no longer believe in the Biblegod is because I woke up to the fact that he acts and thinks exactly like men.
    I guess you woke up on the wrong side of the bed. God has no gender.

    You do not quote the Bible! All you do is make stuff up. I would like to see you quote something from the Bible to support the stuff you say about slavery. I dare you.
    What is the point? you have said before, you do not believe in the Bible, I am just wasting my time quoting the scriptures to atheists....would you? Besides, we are well versed in the Bible, there is no need to quote the Bible all the time as we can remember them and diligently search those verses in the Bible if doubtful. I will quote only when I think it is necessary.

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 07-18-2014 at 10:15 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  9. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    I'm glad you agree ALL people are entitled to equal human rights, even though in one of your last posts you said not all people were entitled to equal human rights because one size doesn't fit all people. Please make up your mind, which is it?
    Don't be too happy, all that what I wrote that there is no real equality in human rights still stands.

    If you agree that all people are entitled to equal human rights, then you disagree with the Bible and its god.
    I have stated that equal human rights happens long ago if only people obey the 2nd commandment of "Love thy neighbor as thyself" or the Golden rule.

    Yes, equal human rights ALWAYS trumps everything else! I'm glad you agree. Majority rule does not necessarily mean democracy and equal human rights for everyone, just like in Nazi Germany where the majority of the people believed Hitler.
    Majority rules means respect for the right of individual decision to believe and do what they think is right. It is wrong to stop their right in believing what they want to believe or decide.

    If you believe like I do that equal human rights always trumps everything else, then you disagree with the Bible and its god.
    I believe that "Love they neighbor as thyself" covers everything in the UDHR.

    The problem with the Bible, is that it decrees laws that blatantly go against human rights, so the only way people who believe in the Biblegod can ever achieve equal human rights is to break the laws given in the Bible.
    Some bible laws may seems to go against equal human rights just like secular laws but as laws you obey whether is it equal or not and whether you like it or not. Disobey the laws whether biblical or secular and you will be punished. This is equality as everybody is under the same laws of the country.

    God Bless.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  10. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Read your Bible: Punish for what? Obviously for murder if the slave dies; and the Jewish penalty for murder is death....A eye for an eye, a life for a life. Below is an interesting read about Jewish treatment of slaves:
    Read your Bible!

    Not ruling over slaves harshly, ONLY APPLIED TO THE HEBREWS! Read below where it makes a clear distinction between foreign slaves that are bought and Hebrew hired servants. Only the Hebrew servants were allowed to go free in the year of Jubilee, whereas the foreign slaves were kept for life and their children passed down as inheritance. ONLY the Hebrew slaves were not to be treated harshly, NOTHING is said about the foreign slaves except they can't be beaten to death!



    1. Lev.25:38-43 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God. And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return. For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen. Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.
    2. Lev.25:44-45 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.



    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Read your Bible. The slave can't even support himself, how was he to support his wife and children unless with the expense of the master? Even if the master did not buy the slave a wife which is not an impossibility,when the master give the slave his wife, it was probably one of his wives or concubines and as such the wife belongs to the master and therefore the slave has no right to the wife and children when he left. It is an old custom call wife lending in which one lends a wife to someone so that he can have children. It is analogous to current surrogate mothers or swinging. I have posted an article on the custom of wife lending:
    The Bible allows slavery! That is the issue I am talking about. It doesn't matter who can support who, what matters is that the Bible sanctions and allows the ownership of people, which is a gross human rights violation!


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Rubbish, which employer will want o beat his employee so severely that he have to pay his medical bills and look after him...who is at a greater financial loss and loss of work hours? It is like a slap in his own face. Same as if you should punished your own child severely, whose advantage is this and who suffered the most?

    Spare the rod and spoil the child (Proverbs). Sorry, I am never an abusive man, neither were my parents even though we were caned as kids for being naughty.
    Anyone who beats another person in a manner that causes redness, welts, bruises or cuts is abusing them!


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Neither do you know. Nothing on earth is forever....use your brain! It simply means lifelong employment and they are supposed to release all slaves during the year of Jubilee.

    Everybody who are righteous and did the will of the Father in heaven goes into the KIngdom of heaven regardless of race and gender, slave or master.
    The releasing of slaves in the year of Jubilee ONLY applied to the Hebrew slaves! All foreign slaves could be kept in perpetuity ... read Leviticus 25: 38-45


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    I guess you woke up on the wrong side of the bed. God has no gender.
    The biblical authors sure seemed to think so ... that's why they call him father and husband.


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    What is the point? you have said before, you do not believe in the Bible, I am just wasting my time quoting the scriptures to atheists....would you? Besides, we are well versed in the Bible, there is no need to quote the Bible all the time as we can remember them and diligently search those verses in the Bible if doubtful. I will quote only when I think it is necessary.

    God Bless.
    The reason I don't believe in the Biblegod is because of what the Bible says about him ... the source of my information is the Bible, so of course I have to read it to know what it says.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

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