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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    If you believe like I do that equal human rights always trumps everything else, then you disagree with the Bible and its god.

    I believe that "Love they neighbor as thyself" covers everything in the UDHR.


    Some bible laws may seems to go against equal human rights just like secular laws but as laws you obey whether is it equal or not and whether you like it or not. Disobey the laws whether biblical or secular and you will be punished. This is equality as everybody is under the same laws of the country.

    God Bless.
    Not only do biblical laws "seem" to go against equal human rights, they actually do! So, I guess if you believe in equal human rights like stated in the U.D.H.R., then you disagree with the Bible and its god.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Read your Bible!

    Not ruling over slaves harshly, ONLY APPLIED TO THE HEBREWS! Read below where it makes a clear distinction between foreign slaves that are bought and Hebrew hired servants. Only the Hebrew servants were allowed to go free in the year of Jubilee, whereas the foreign slaves were kept for life and their children passed down as inheritance. ONLY the Hebrew slaves were not to be treated harshly, NOTHING is said about the foreign slaves except they can't be beaten to death!
    There were distinction between foreign and hebrews slaves same as there are distinction between citizens and foreigners in secular laws. The foreign slaves were treated better compared to treatment from other contemporary tribes. They were told not to treat foreigner slaves harshly which is why the constant reminder that they were once slaves in Egypt.

    [*]Lev.25:38-43 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God. And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return. For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen. Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God. [*]Lev.25:44-45 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
    Take a look at the following article:

    http://www.rationalchristianity.net/slavery_ot.html

    The law protected slaves from being abused by their masters:

    Killing a slave merited punishment.1 (Ex 21:20)
    Permanently injured slaves had to be set free (Ex 21:26-27)
    Slaves who ran away from oppressive masters were effectively freed (Dt 23:15-16)
    The law also gave slaves a day of rest every week (Ex 20:10, Dt 5:14).

    Hebrew slaves:

    Hebrews could become slaves of a fellow Hebrew if they committed a crime such as theft and had no other way of paying the fine (Ex 22:1-3) or if they became impoverished and sold themselves and/or their family into slavery. Kidnapping someone and selling them into slavery was forbidden (Dt 24:7).

    When one Hebrew owned another Hebrew as a slave, the law commanded lenient treatment:

    Slaves were to be treated as hired workers, not slaves (Lev 25:39-43)
    All slaves were to be freed after six years (Ex 21:2, Dt 15:12)
    Freed slaves were to be liberally supplied with grain, wine and livestock (Dt 15:12-15)
    Every fiftieth year (the year of jubilee), all Hebrew slaves were to be freed, even those owned by foreigners (Lev 25:10, 47-54)
    In special cases, slaves could choose to remain with their masters if they felt it was in their best interests (Dt 15:16-17).

    If a Hebrew sold himself as a slave to a foreigner, he reserved the right to buy his freedom (Lev 25:47-49) and was still to be treated as a hired man (Lev 25:53).

    Foreign slaves

    While foreign slaves could be made slaves for life, the laws regarding the general treatment of slaves applied to them as well (Lev 24:22, Num 15:15-16). The law made it clear that foreigners were not inferiors who could be mistreated (Ex 23:9); instead they were to be loved just as fellow Israelites were (Lev 19:33-34). For more information, see the article on Gentiles in the OT.
    The Bible allows slavery! That is the issue I am talking about. It doesn't matter who can support who, what matters is that the Bible sanctions and allows the ownership of people, which is a gross human rights violation!
    God allows humane treatment of slavery which was not the norm in other ancient cultures. God allowed humane slavery knowing that one day it will be totally resolved same as sin and evil committed by evil people. Slavery is outlawed in the modern society but has not been totally resovled. For God to straightaway abolish slavery will not be fair....imagine the US don't treat war captives as POWs but straightaway released them as free men who will be free to attack USA again whilst the enemies treat US captives as POWs like slaves, torturing them in prisons and concentration camps for years.

    Anyone who beats another person in a manner that causes redness, welts, bruises or cuts is abusing them!
    No pain, No gain. Most cultures believe in using the "rod" to punishment.....soft approach don't work on most criminals.

    The releasing of slaves in the year of Jubilee ONLY applied to the Hebrew slaves! All foreign slaves could be kept in perpetuity ... read Leviticus 25: 38-45
    It applies to all slaves depending on the masters who can keep them for life or set them free during the Jubilee.

    The biblical authors sure seemed to think so ... that's why they call him father and husband.
    God is a plural term and sexless same as we call Mankind. If you want to to call God the Mother, God the Daughter and God the Holy Spirit is fine with me as long as you believe in Jesus.

    The reason I don't believe in the Biblegod is because of what the Bible says about him ... the source of my information is the Bible, so of course I have to read it to know what it says.
    If you want the Bible to say what you want it to say about God, well, I am sorry this cannot be done...same as what you want the secular laws to say what you want the law to say.

    God Bless.
    Last edited by CWH; 07-20-2014 at 08:30 AM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose View Post
    Not only do biblical laws "seem" to go against equal human rights, they actually do! So, I guess if you believe in equal human rights like stated in the U.D.H.R., then you disagree with the Bible and its god.
    Same as I would say of you, if you agree with the UDHR, you agree with the second commandment, "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and the Golden rule, you agree with the Bible and God.....Congratulations!

    God Bless.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  4. #364
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Same as I would say of you, if you agree with the UDHR, you agree with the second commandment, "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and the Golden rule, you agree with the Bible and God.....Congratulations!

    God Bless.
    Of course I agree with the Golden Rule! There are many parts of the Bible that I agree with, just like there are parts of other religious books I agree with. The Bible is a book written by many human authors with many ideas, there are some very profound words of wisdom in it, and there are some biased words that denied people equal human rights ... that's how I know the Biblegod is a construct of the human mind.
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

  5. #365
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    There were distinction between foreign and hebrews slaves same as there are distinction between citizens and foreigners in secular laws. The foreign slaves were treated better compared to treatment from other contemporary tribes. They were told not to treat foreigner slaves harshly which is why the constant reminder that they were once slaves in Egypt.
    No! The Hebrews were only told not to treat other Hebrews harshly, nothing was said about the treatment of foreign slaves except, if they beat them to death they would be punished.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    God allows humane treatment of slavery which was not the norm in other ancient cultures. God allowed humane slavery knowing that one day it will be totally resolved same as sin and evil committed by evil people. Slavery is outlawed in the modern society but has not been totally resovled. For God to straightaway abolish slavery will not be fair....imagine the US don't treat war captives as POWs but straightaway released them as free men who will be free to attack USA again whilst the enemies treat US captives as POWs like slaves, torturing them in prisons and concentration camps for years.

    No pain, No gain. Most cultures believe in using the "rod" to punishment.....soft approach don't work on most criminals.
    The Biblegod allows slavery! It doesn't matter how humane it is, it is still SLAVERY, which means the ownership of people! Owning people as slaves is a gross human rights violation, so the Biblegod sanctions and condones human rights violations.

    Most of the slavery in the Bible has nothing to do with POW's and everything to do with wanting cheap labor. When the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt they were not POWs, they were laborers. Quit making stuff up to try and excuse the Biblegod for his gross human rights violations!

    The Biblegod allowed the Hebrews to have slaves so they could have cheap labor, he could have just as well forbid the Hebrews to have slaves and made laws requiring them to hire people as payed workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    The releasing of slaves in the year of Jubilee ONLY applied to the Hebrew slaves! All foreign slaves could be kept in perpetuity ... read Leviticus 25: 38-45
    It applies to all slaves depending on the masters who can keep them for life or set them free during the Jubilee.
    No! It does not apply to all slaves. The only slaves that were required to be released in the year of Jubilee were the Hebrew slaves!


    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    God is a plural term and sexless same as we call Mankind. If you want to to call God the Mother, God the Daughter and God the Holy Spirit is fine with me as long as you believe in Jesus.


    If you want the Bible to say what you want it to say about God, well, I am sorry this cannot be done...same as what you want the secular laws to say what you want the law to say.

    God Bless.
    The god of the Bible is not sexless, he is referred to as father, and husband.

    I ONLY quote from the Bible what it says about god, I don't make stuff up like you do!
    Never trust anything you are afraid to question ~

    To know oneself is to know the universe...


    Live Fully...Love Extravagantly...For the sake of Goodness

    Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt.10:16

    Come let us reason together...Isa.1:18
    ********************************
    My new Blog site: God and Butterfly

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