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  1. #1
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    As an Illuminati, I cannot fathom why you fear us.

    As an Illuminati, I cannot fathom why you fear us.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ4SSvVbhLw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETxmCCsMoD0

    I can tell you that George is correct at this point in time but it is a system that I and my Illuminati friends do not really want. You are forcing us into competing with each other as many of us are as insecure in this economy as you are.

    It is true that our ultimate goal is full control of the economy but it is not so that we can control you so much as it is to bring stability and a longer term profit for all of mankind. You are more responsible for the instability of the economy than we are. You know the stability would instantly make us all wealthier in the long run yet you refuse to give us openly the power that we already hold secretly.

    Carlin is wrong in saying that we do not care. We have to because we know that without you below us doing your duty to the economy and purchasing stupidly, the whole system would crash. But even if it would my friends, after it bounces back, nothing will have changed unless you give my Illuminati friends true political power and the opportunity to create the final evolutionary political regime that will rule indefinitely. A Timocracy.

    I know that most of you think that you have no way of moving our regimes to this best and most profitable system. You are wrong. You are presently living under two main lies and these lies are the only thing holding all of societies everywhere from prosperity for all demographic pyramids and individuals. Two Noble Lies that most of you believe. The first is the Noble Lie of religion representing a God when they really represent what Governments have created them to represent. The second is the Noble Lie that George recognizes and speaks to. That you are ruled by an independent non-Illuminati controlled government.

    If you can recognise those two Noble Lies and recognize that you live in an Illuminati controlled oligarchy, then and only then can you actually control your destiny by knowing honestly who controls you.

    Are you ready for an honest open system of control instead of the one you now live under?

    You can, by vote, actually participate in decisions about your future without subversive manipulation, --- or do nothing and continue living a lie?

    It is your choice.

    As an Illuminati I can tell you that the wish and duty that drives us is not wealth by numbers. It is wealth to be used to insure our demographic position while forming a benevolent Timocratic regime that is completely transparent to all.

    You can have it if you want it and create it. Believe me if you can, -------

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMxX-QOV9tI

    Regards
    DL

  2. #2
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    From Xaocracy to Timocracy?

    Could it be that it just might be that after all these y-eras through various modes of input into this zeitgeist it could be that it might be that those riding the shark of their desires are creating what they fear through the outward expression of those very fears...abchaoabordo STS.

    What the norm of mundanes never understand is the ways in which they attempt to RE-construct a pseudo-historic effigy...a poppet that only seems to possess the face of maya, while actually the reality of what is really going on--though being reality in plain sight--remains hidden to them.

    Timocracy?

    We really like that notion; but is it even a notion at all???

    Searingly,

    Timmy
    Last edited by Timmy; 12-25-2012 at 04:07 PM.
    The mind grows by taking in
    :Mesiras Nefesh:
    THE HEART GROWS BY GIVING OUT

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    As an Illuminati, I cannot fathom why you fear us.


    It is true that our ultimate goal is full control of the economy but it is not so that we can control you so much as it is to bring stability and a longer term profit for all of mankind. You are more responsible for the instability of the economy than we are. You know the stability would instantly make us all wealthier in the long run yet you refuse to give us openly the power that we already hold secretly.
    This is a money-based ideal and as the Bible teaches; "the love of money that is the root of all evil".


    Is it still the goal of the Illuminati to reduce the human population to around 500 million? The reduction in the human population will come about, but it will not be as a result of what the Illuminati does or would like to see happen. The Illuminati represents a small percentage of the human population. Those who are part of the Illuminati do not see that they will be amongst the larger portion of the human population that will be destroyed when God's judgment comes on this "world" which is enmity with God and which God will not let continue for ever but has determined the time when man's rule will come to an end. "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." This is applying to the world situation as it is before the condemnation of God comes on the whole world.


    David

  4. #4
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    By the rejection of absolutes, as a whole, the human genome has to put a finger on something that represents some sort of security, and most assume this to be the power of DUCKIE$. In fact, it is typical of this kosmos to base any individuals stability on their solvency.

    The most funny thing about the power attributed to governments is the consideration of where they stand on the economic spectrum ranging from red to black. . .yet beneath this facade there are secrets.

    Participation in a vote is not for the purpose of changing things so much as finding out where the outspoken majority stands. It is a most effective means of herding the pack manimals.

    Ever observable is the fact of decreasing honor and growing decadence in those trusting validation of existence to be experienced via possessions, be it property or whatever their respective culture signifies relative to the value of any entity...corporate or not.


    Selfishness is the root of every single persons 'problems' in life & godliness with contentment is great gain. They speak of honor and human dignity and compassion, yet how many of them spend their days lifting up the downtrodden, the destitute, and the derilict?

    Better a totally autonomous anarchistic collective than adhering to a pack of lies promulgated by a pack of liars claiming everything is toward the common good of...really! Ask yourself who will ultimately gain by their agenda. Check their pockets. (All that pseudo-rhetoric masks that they do not give a damn who you are unless you are making or taking their 'money'.)

    Oh,there is more where that came from but right now I spin adrift on memory bliss.


    Not plane
    Nor bird
    Nor even Jimmy.
    It's just lil' ole' me
    Stipulatively Timmy
    Last edited by Timmy; 12-26-2012 at 12:19 PM.
    The mind grows by taking in
    :Mesiras Nefesh:
    THE HEART GROWS BY GIVING OUT

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    By the rejection of absolutes, as a whole, the human genome has to put a finger on something that represents some sort of security, and most assume this to be the power of DUCKIE$. In fact, it is typical of this kosmos to base any individuals stability on their solvency.
    The rejection of "absolutes" is just plain stupid. Unfortunately, many simple-minded folks thought that the rejection of deity implied the rejection of absolutes and so they made fools of themselves. It became quite the intellectual fad known as "post-modernism." Ironically, the only thing they really managed to "deconstruct" was their own rationality.

    There is no need to go looking for absolutes in the human genome or anywhere else. Absolutes are built into the structure our brains and the language it produces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Ever observable is the fact of decreasing honor and growing decadence in those trusting validation of existence to be experienced via possessions, be it property or whatever their respective culture signifies relative to the value of any entity...corporate or not.
    The idea of "decreasing honor and growing decadence" only reveals an ignorance of history. People in general are morally much better now then at any time in history. Think of the history of this great Christian nation that used to enslave, torture, and murder people because of the color of their skin. Women couldn't vote or have any equal role in society with men. Social morals advance because people are becoming free from the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Selfishness is the root of every single persons 'problems' in life & godliness with contentment is great gain. They speak of honor and human dignity and compassion, yet how many of them spend their days lifting up the downtrodden, the destitute, and the derilict?
    Selfishness is indeed a great moral problem. It is overcome only by authentic self-love which necessarily entails love of others because humans are social organisms, as explained in my article The Logic of Love: A Natural Theory of Morality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Better a totally autonomous anarchistic collective than adhering to a pack of lies promulgated by a pack of liars claiming everything is toward the common good of...really! Ask yourself who will ultimately gain by their agenda. Check their pockets. (All that pseudo-rhetoric masks that they do not give a damn who you are unless you are making or taking their 'money'.)
    Totally agree with that! Enforced "communism" is just a vehicle for Fascism and Dictatorships.
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

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  6. #6
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    Howdy again Mr. McGough!

    Seeing the responses on the synchronicity thread and needing to read through it all 'thinkingly' b4 responding to what you and now others have stated, it was determined to start here first.

    Greetings and salutations and a toast to you oh Big Kahuna in these the best of the worst of the best of times! (or is it the worst of the best of the worst of times?)
    Thank you for your thoughtful considerations on the above mentioned thread as even here. You make me feel as this Acropolis of the BW is truly my home sweet home in Cyberia.

    Sorry for being away for the most part for sooo long now. With 6 weeks to install over 40 sets of granite/marble covered countertops w/cupboard cabinets, then a few fireplace faces before Christmas...and dealing with three specific people desiring to invest in the windgen project, there has been very little time available for much of anything else aside from sleep and catching a meal when possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    By the rejection of absolutes, as a whole, the human genome has to put a finger on something that represents some sort of security, and most assume this to be the power of DUCKIE$. In fact, it is typical of this kosmos to base any individuals stability on their solvency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    The rejection of "absolutes" is just plain stupid. Unfortunately, many simple-minded folks thought that the rejection of deity implied the rejection of absolutes and so they made fools of themselves. It became quite the intellectual fad known as "post-modernism." Ironically, the only thing they really managed to "deconstruct" was their own rationality.

    There is no need to go looking for absolutes in the human genome or anywhere else. Absolutes are built into the structure our brains and the language it produces.
    Granted, simple absolutes are built into the structure of all things existing, yet these temporal absolutes recognized are not really absolutely absolute...as in ageless, timeless, and eternally permanent and unchanging. Though you may not concur doctor, expletives regarding this will be gratefully received for pondering.

    Here there is no searching after absolutes of a temporal nature. Rather it is a quest towards submitting to Yaweh through obedience to expectations unchanging: above and beyond any physical counterpoint or counterpart. In the sojourn towards that which lies beyond physical sensory stimuli there is a willing submission to bondage that possesses a freedom leading into wide open space. It is this paradox that is currently experienced in greater ways each day.

    It is also unwise to identify and compare ourselves with any other human--all of us being one race. It is even less wise to compare ourselves or identify with any other part of physical existence.

    Can we at least concur that there are higher standards than the human genome currently can conceive...even though coming together towards a congruency of exactly what The Absolute is may occur at another juncture in time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Ever observable is the fact of decreasing honor and growing decadence in those trusting validation of existence to be experienced via possessions, be it property or whatever their respective culture signifies relative to the value of any entity...corporate or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    The idea of "decreasing honor and growing decadence" only reveals an ignorance of history. People in general are morally much better now then at any time in history. Think of the history of this great Christian nation that used to enslave, torture, and murder people because of the color of their skin. Women couldn't vote or have any equal role in society with men. Social morals advance because people are becoming free from the Bible.
    Ignorance of history...or do you infer my own in relation to your statement? We can go with the second option and attempt to explain.

    This place called America was never truly a great Christian nation. Granted, there seems there has always been more or less a lue of Christianity. Still, America has always been a melting pot integrating cultural norms some consider to be moral, yet without holding to a standard that is not open to re-interpretation, the cultured society itself becomes the absolute. If America was ever at all Christianity, this term must necessarily posess the noun Humanism adjunct with it.
    (aka:I am my shepherd, and God was a primary voice to be learned from. The United States was borne on the wings of rebellion...so please take off the blinders.)

    What is the absolute you adhere to as the ultimate standard of morality?

    Just because folks can forego enslaving and torture and murder in the physical sense does not mean that at our core we cannot still adhere to these things iregardless of creed or color. Couldn't it possibly mean that people actually care that much less for one another rather than a new age of morality adrift on the ocean of pseudo-logical expletives?

    Defining the meaning behind the mention of decadence and lack of honor need be spoken here. It was meant in terms of scriptural standards which most cannot even accept much less receive...at least without honing them to fit their own ideations of what should and should not be. Honoring the creature more than the creator is neither honorable nor morally astute...yet you say it is this freedom from Biblical standards that makes for greater morality? One of us needs to get a grip.

    Historically, the further any people strays towards their own devices creates the means towards using their own weapons of self-destruction on themselves. A prime example of this is the rise and fall of Roman civilization. It appears that many a nation has since followed suit, if not in replicated in fact, at least in principle.

    Is the ability to vote an expression of liberty or is it actually buying into a bondage beyond an individuals control? So now, women too can participate freely in attempting to define the terms of cultural/societal enslavement commonly understood to be government.

    Maybe any government that caters to societal norms becomes the hope and dream through the actions of the people.
    This is the essence of faith, is it not?
    Maybe we could redefine God upon those lines as well?




    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Selfishness is the root of every single persons 'problems' in life & godliness with contentment is great gain. They speak of honor and human dignity and compassion, yet how many of them spend their days lifting up the downtrodden, the destitute, and the derelict?[
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Selfishness is indeed a great moral problem. It is overcome only by authentic self-love which necessarily entails love of others because humans are social organisms, as explained in my article The Logic of Love: A Natural Theory of Morality.[
    ...and where does Darwin fit into that picture? You know, survival of the fittest and all that rot. Life feeds on life so liber lex talionis, right? How morally sound is that notion?

    YES! LOVE!
    ...however, even as one persons god is another persons devil, no two people will give you the same definition as to what love truly is.

    If we do not love ourselves how can we love another, yet even the term love needs a singular unchanging definition that all can uphold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Better a totally autonomous anarchistic collective than adhering to a pack of lies promulgated by a pack of liars claiming everything is toward the common good of...really! Ask yourself who will ultimately gain by their agenda. Check their pockets. (All that pseudo-rhetoric masks that they do not give a damn who you are unless you are making or taking their 'money'.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Totally agree with that! Enforced "communism" is just a vehicle for Fascism and Dictatorships.
    ...so here at last we stand unflinchingly on common ground. Mayhaps we will do better starting from this point building an edifice of pragmatic philosophy together inextricably immutably absolute or something like that?

    Do not think for one moment I even agree with myself about all the above. Thoughts have just been thrown out there for debate...and you mein freund are a pleasure to banter back and forth with. Maybe we soon can interact IRL. You can even bring your gun locked and loaded and I can play the role of martyr or moron...whichever you prefer.



    GAME ON!


    I am that I am non,

    Timmy
    The mind grows by taking in
    :Mesiras Nefesh:
    THE HEART GROWS BY GIVING OUT

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Howdy again Mr. McGough!

    Seeing the responses on the synchronicity thread and needing to read through it all 'thinkingly' b4 responding to what you and now others have stated, it was determined to start here first.

    Greetings and salutations and a toast to you oh Big Kahuna in these the best of the worst of the best of times! (or is it the worst of the best of the worst of times?)
    Thank you for your thoughtful considerations on the above mentioned thread as even here. You make me feel as this Acropolis of the BW is truly my home sweet home in Cyberia.

    Sorry for being away for the most part for sooo long now. With 6 weeks to install over 40 sets of granite/marble covered countertops w/cupboard cabinets, then a few fireplace faces before Christmas...and dealing with three specific people desiring to invest in the windgen project, there has been very little time available for much of anything else aside from sleep and catching a meal when possible.
    Howdy Ho (Ho Ho) Timmy OH!

    Seasoned Greetings (pepper and salt) to you! I'm glad you found time for a visit. Times to me seem neither the best nor the worst - seems more like a standard mix of Yin and Yang.

    It sounds like you've been busy. It's good to have work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Granted, simple absolutes are built into the structure of all things existing, yet these temporal absolutes recognized are not really absolutely absolute...as in ageless, timeless, and eternally permanent and unchanging. Though you may not concur doctor, expletives regarding this will be gratefully received for pondering.
    Absolute absolutes? Concepts like "ageless, timeless, and eternally permanent and unchanging" are applicable in some restricted areas like mathematics. I feel compelled to believe that mathematics is "timeless" in that any true statement does not change over time. But then again, the concept of "timeless" is not particularly meaningful to me since all mathematical expressions are stated within time. So I prefer the language of invariance. If something does not change it remains "invariant." This avoids confusing ourselves with language, which is the primary activity of the relatively autistic head game known as "philosophy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Here there is no searching after absolutes of a temporal nature. Rather it is a quest towards submitting to Yaweh through obedience to expectations unchanging: above and beyond any physical counterpoint or counterpart. In the sojourn towards that which lies beyond physical sensory stimuli there is a willing submission to bondage that possesses a freedom leading into wide open space. It is this paradox that is currently experienced in greater ways each day.
    Hummm ... submitting to my concept of Yahweh derived through my modern mind interpreting an ancient and ambiguous book written by primitive men with mythological world views? That doesn't sound like much fun nor much wisdom. If you are going to submit yourself to a concept, why not choose a better one?

    I have no problem with seeking experience "beyond physical sensory stimuli" - indeed, I am quite motivated in that direction. But why shackle myself with preconceived religious ideas that look more like bondage than freedom? I know there is a paradox in consciousness - self vs. other - but why add to it artificially by projecting your spiritual intuitions into an old book. Why not take the straight path based directly on your own intuitions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    It is also unwise to identify and compare ourselves with any other human--all of us being one race. It is even less wise to compare ourselves or identify with any other part of physical existence.
    Who's doing that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Can we at least concur that there are higher standards than the human genome currently can conceive...even though coming together towards a congruency of exactly what The Absolute is may occur at another juncture in time?
    I'd love to agree, but that is difficult because I'm not sure what you are getting at. I have never said that the human genome sets a "standard" for the "absolute." That was your idea. It never would have occurred to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    The idea of "decreasing honor and growing decadence" only reveals an ignorance of history. People in general are morally much better now then at any time in history. Think of the history of this great Christian nation that used to enslave, torture, and murder people because of the color of their skin. Women couldn't vote or have any equal role in society with men. Social morals advance because people are becoming free from the Bible.
    Ignorance of history...or do you infer my own in relation to your statement? We can go with the second option and attempt to explain.

    This place called America was never truly a great Christian nation. Granted, there seems there has always been more or less a lue of Christianity. Still, America has always been a melting pot integrating cultural norms some consider to be moral, yet without holding to a standard that is not open to re-interpretation, the cultured society itself becomes the absolute. If America was ever at all Christianity, this term must necessarily posess the noun Humanism adjunct with it.
    (aka:I am my shepherd, and God was a primary voice to be learned from. The United States was borne on the wings of rebellion...so please take off the blinders.)
    There has never been any nation or person that was "truly Christian" because that term has no definition. Each "Christian" has their own definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    What is the absolute you adhere to as the ultimate standard of morality?
    What is the absolute I adhere to as the ultimate standard of morality? The absolute is LOVE - love for self and love for others modulated through the symmetric logic of the Golden Rule. I explained this in my article The Logic of Love: A Natural Theory of Morality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Just because folks can forego enslaving and torture and murder in the physical sense does not mean that at our core we cannot still adhere to these things iregardless of creed or color. Couldn't it possibly mean that people actually care that much less for one another rather than a new age of morality adrift on the ocean of pseudo-logical expletives?
    I'm not particularly clear about what you mean by "the ocean of pseudo-logical expletives." If something I have written is accurately criticized as "pseudo-logical" I would be in your debt if you could explain it to me.

    I find it odd that you would minimize the dramatic drop in "enslaving and torture and murder" as if it did not demonstrate the great moral advancement brought about by the acceptance of secular values.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Defining the meaning behind the mention of decadence and lack of honor need be spoken here. It was meant in terms of scriptural standards which most cannot even accept much less receive...at least without honing them to fit their own ideations of what should and should not be. Honoring the creature more than the creator is neither honorable nor morally astute...yet you say it is this freedom from Biblical standards that makes for greater morality? One of us needs to get a grip.
    Can you name a single "Biblical standard" of morality that is not found in other cultures?

    Your appeal to "Biblical standards" is very problematic. Are you talking about the pattern of God endorsing the capture of virgins to be used as sex slaves coupled with the murder of everyone they ever loved? See Numbers 31 and Judges 19-21. They both show God participating in the capture of sexy virgins and the slaughter of everyone else. Folks are totally "selective" when it comes to "Biblical" values. The simply cherry pick the values in the Bible that fit their preexisting natural moral intuitions. So the real root of morality is the human heart, not a book that folks make conform to their moral intuitions. The Bible actually contains some fundamentally immoral teachings, as explained in my article The Inextricable Sexism of the Bible. And the attempt to defend the Bible as "God's Word" tends to corrupt both the minds and the morals of believers, as explained in my article The Art of Rationalization: A Case Study of Christian Apologist Rich Deem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Historically, the further any people strays towards their own devices creates the means towards using their own weapons of self-destruction on themselves. A prime example of this is the rise and fall of Roman civilization. It appears that many a nation has since followed suit, if not in replicated in fact, at least in principle.
    Your assertion is not self-evident. On the contrary, there is much evidence that it is when people are ruled by religious dogma that they become moral monsters. Case in point: How did Hitler get his Christian army to kill six million Jews? There were two factors in play: 1) 2000 years of antisemitism taught both in Scripture and from the pulpit. 2) The fundamental Christian dogma that OBEDIENCE is MORALITY and the only way to save your soul from eternal torment in hell. It is this fundamentally fallacious Christian dogma that corrupts the believers. This has been well stated by Steven Weinberg who said "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

    And did you know that some Romans blamed the fall of their empire on its conversion to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Is the ability to vote an expression of liberty or is it actually buying into a bondage beyond an individuals control? So now, women too can participate freely in attempting to define the terms of cultural/societal enslavement commonly understood to be government.
    If you think our freedom to vote is really bondage, you must mourn the loss of the great bastion of freedom - the USSR.

    Government is necessary. Try living without it and see what happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Maybe any government that caters to societal norms becomes the hope and dream through the actions of the people.
    This is the essence of faith, is it not?
    Maybe we could redefine God upon those lines as well?
    Religious norms are a kind of societal norm - the "society" being the "religious society."

    It is not the "essence of faith." That is a confusion of words.

    Before we "re"-define God, perhaps we should ask what the existing definition is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Selfishness is indeed a great moral problem. It is overcome only by authentic self-love which necessarily entails love of others because humans are social organisms, as explained in my article The Logic of Love: A Natural Theory of Morality.
    ...and where does Darwin fit into that picture? You know, survival of the fittest and all that rot. Life feeds on life so liber lex talionis, right? How morally sound is that notion?

    YES! LOVE!
    ...however, even as one persons god is another persons devil, no two people will give you the same definition as to what love truly is.

    If we do not love ourselves how can we love another, yet even the term love needs a singular unchanging definition that all can uphold.
    Darwin fits perfectly in my theory. The precursor to self-love is the most primitive of all instincts - the instinct for self-preservation.

    How is it possible that you could describe "survival of the fittest" as "rot"? It sounds like you know nothing of which you speak.

    Your implication of liber lex talionis does not follow because humans are social organisms with a biological basis for empathy like mirror neurons and hormones such as oxytocin. And we have big brains, so we can see and understand that self-love necessarily entails love for others.

    It is true that different people may give different definitions of love, but that's primarily because most people are inarticulate and probably haven't thought about the precise definition much. That's why I have a role to fill - folks need help articulating what they already know. And so we can make the world a better place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    Totally agree with that! Enforced "communism" is just a vehicle for Fascism and Dictatorships.
    ...so here at last we stand unflinchingly on common ground. Mayhaps we will do better starting from this point building an edifice of pragmatic philosophy together inextricably immutably absolute or something like that?
    Yes, it is good that we found a point of agreement. I'm always amazed how dimwitted philosophers are on the subject of morality. They must invent situations like "it is wrong to torture babies for fun" before they can even begin discussing the topic. Atheists and theists mirror the ignorance of the other. Theists say there would be no morality at all if there were no God, and atheists agree and so say there is no morality. It's truly pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    Do not think for one moment I even agree with myself about all the above. Thoughts have just been thrown out there for debate...and you mein freund are a pleasure to banter back and forth with. Maybe we soon can interact IRL. You can even bring your gun locked and loaded and I can play the role of martyr or moron...whichever you prefer.

    GAME ON!
    Don't worry - I wouldn't make that mistake!

    It is always a pleasure to play conceptual badminton with you my friend! You bring plenty of spice to an often dull dish (to mix my metaphors).

    Talk more soon,

    Richard
    • Skepticism is the antiseptic of the mind.
    • Remember why we debate. We have nothing to lose but the errors we hold. Who but a stubborn fool would hold to errors once they have been exposed?

    Check out my blog site

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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    This is a money-based ideal and as the Bible teaches; "the love of money that is the root of all evil".


    Is it still the goal of the Illuminati to reduce the human population to around 500 million? The reduction in the human population will come about, but it will not be as a result of what the Illuminati does or would like to see happen. The Illuminati represents a small percentage of the human population. Those who are part of the Illuminati do not see that they will be amongst the larger portion of the human population that will be destroyed when God's judgment comes on this "world" which is enmity with God and which God will not let continue for ever but has determined the time when man's rule will come to an end. "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." This is applying to the world situation as it is before the condemnation of God comes on the whole world.


    David
    Thanks for the thoughtless dogma and usurping God's will to speak for himself.

    Strange how you can fathom your unfathomable God.

    500 million.

    Quite good compared to what your genocidal son murdering God did.

    So what exactly is your complaint?

    Should we be as big of a prick as he is and just leave 8?

    Regards
    DL

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    612
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    By the rejection of absolutes, as a whole, the human genome has to put a finger on something that represents some sort of security, and most assume this to be the power of DUCKIE$. In fact, it is typical of this kosmos to base any individuals stability on their solvency.

    The most funny thing about the power attributed to governments is the consideration of where they stand on the economic spectrum ranging from red to black. . .yet beneath this facade there are secrets.

    Participation in a vote is not for the purpose of changing things so much as finding out where the outspoken majority stands. It is a most effective means of herding the pack manimals.

    Ever observable is the fact of decreasing honor and growing decadence in those trusting validation of existence to be experienced via possessions, be it property or whatever their respective culture signifies relative to the value of any entity...corporate or not.


    Selfishness is the root of every single persons 'problems' in life & godliness with contentment is great gain. They speak of honor and human dignity and compassion, yet how many of them spend their days lifting up the downtrodden, the destitute, and the derilict?

    Better a totally autonomous anarchistic collective than adhering to a pack of lies promulgated by a pack of liars claiming everything is toward the common good of...really! Ask yourself who will ultimately gain by their agenda. Check their pockets. (All that pseudo-rhetoric masks that they do not give a damn who you are unless you are making or taking their 'money'.)

    Oh,there is more where that came from but right now I spin adrift on memory bliss.


    Not plane
    Nor bird
    Nor even Jimmy.
    It's just lil' ole' me
    Stipulatively Timmy
    You seem to think that we can somehow turn our selfish gene off.
    That is what I discuss at this link.
    Please have a look as you are making it sound like you might know how to take competition out of evolution.

    http://www.biblewheel.com/forum/show...see-how-Do-you


    To your first post.

    "What the norm of mundanes never understand"

    Is that the lack of education that their masters insist upon is what causes their norm and mundaness.
    ----------------------------


    "Timocracy?

    We really like that notion; but is it even a notion at all???"

    Yes it is but no government will likely never bring up that topic, as then, they would have to admit to why they rule for other not so honorable reasons.

    -----------------------------------


    Originally Posted by Timmy

    Better a totally autonomous anarchistic collective than adhering to a pack of lies promulgated by a pack of liars claiming everything is toward the common good of...really! Ask yourself who will ultimately gain by their agenda. Check their pockets. (All that pseudo-rhetoric masks that they do not give a damn who you are unless you are making or taking their 'money'.)

    Originally Posted by Richard

    Totally agree with that! Enforced "communism" is just a vehicle for Fascism and Dictatorships.

    My reply.
    Tim. This clip shows quite nicely just who is getting the benefits of the present economic system.
    Note that most of the wealth is in the core of our demography and not the top. Any who are in the club at the top know that money in the pocket is a waste. If it is not growing, it is shrinking.

    The only reason that the Illuminati do not circulate all the wealth available and keep any of it stagnant is because of their insecurity that I speak of in the O P.

    ----------------------------


    I read your last to Richard as well and offer this well written piece that speaks to some of it.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/102547288/...13-PDF-Library

    Regards
    DL
    Last edited by Greatest I am; 01-01-2013 at 05:40 AM.

  10. #10
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    Little time for internet brings this to you unedited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Ameil McGough
    Howdy Ho (Ho Ho) Timmy OH!

    Seasoned Greetings (pepper and salt) to you! I'm glad you found time for a visit. Times to me seem neither the best nor the worst - seems more like a standard mix of Yin and Yang.

    It sounds like you've been busy. It's good to have work.
    Seasoned Greetings (particularily cinnamon and sugar...and nutmeg oil) to you ami!

    It's good to have work yet better when everything is paid. Work was mostly in areas surrounding NOLA previously flooded from hurricane Issac...and many insurance pay backs are delayed. It's certainly hoped that the remaining majority of cash earned continues to arrive spaced out, not all at once...but you never know about these things. All the independent contractors have NTL already paid out what was earned and due.

    Usually, i remain extremely busy in the pre-spring to post-fall...if not with work, with projects some call play, others call hobby, and a few think of as just plain insane in the membrane.


    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Granted, simple absolutes are built into the structure of all things existing, yet these temporal absolutes recognized are not really absolutely absolute...as in ageless, timeless, and eternally permanent and unchanging. Though you may not concur doctor, expletives regarding this will be gratefully received for pondering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Absolute absolutes? Concepts like "ageless, timeless, and eternally permanent and unchanging" are applicable in some restricted areas like mathematics. I feel compelled to believe that mathematics is "timeless" in that any true statement does not change over time. But then again, the concept of "timeless" is not particularly meaningful to me since all mathematical expressions are stated within time. So I prefer the language of invariance. If something does not change it remains "invariant." This avoids confusing ourselves with language, which is the primary activity of the relatively autistic head game known as "philosophy."
    It never ceases to astound Timmy where and when the capacity to perceive and understand beyond the seen-and-be-seen stops by anyone talked with. Oft times Conversation is curbed or comes to a standstill altogether because of others experiences based on environs...not that i am not communicating in the self-same way; but, this is usually an issue of attempting to eliminate confusion rathe than creating more.

    Yes, everything here on earth is basically understood in linear terms; yet, the stachochistic nature of temporal existence even implies time to be a result of quantum flux and not the creator of it. Again, time is not independent of mass, space, energy or motion...and any one of those things become undefinable without the interplay of all these associative factors (even just to understand and define time).
    (From my own pespective: persons, places, and things are actually seeming to all interlink, spiraling endlessly through cycles after cycle. The beginning speaks answers concerning the end, though we may never fully understand this presently.)

    Necessarily, there exists a singular "expression" behind all these interlaced things.

    I may be misunderstanding, so lets ask: Do you consider invariance equal to truth? By what you said above, invariance stand within the time/space continuum and you appear to see truth (and: agless, eternal,unchanging, etc.) as something outside of it?

    [Google the family of glycoproteins known as "Laminin" (if you are bored).]

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Here there is no searching after absolutes of a temporal nature. Rather it is a quest towards submitting to Yaweh through obedience to expectations unchanging: above and beyond any physical counterpoint or counterpart. In the sojourn towards that which lies beyond physical sensory stimuli there is a willing submission to bondage that possesses a freedom leading into wide open space. It is this paradox that is currently experienced in greater ways each day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Hummm ... submitting to my concept of Yahweh derived through my modern mind interpreting an ancient and ambiguous book written by primitive men with mythological world views? That doesn't sound like much fun nor much wisdom. If you are going to submit yourself to a concept, why not choose a better one?
    If it were indeed my concept of Yah, then it would be ignorant.

    You say better?
    Like what?
    (Maybe our modern minds have so convoluted what actually is not and is illusory, currently pecieved limitations are actually a result of operating from mistaken idea sets in the first place? This speaks of self-deception in believing that only what we can see and physically "prove" is real, rather than accepting their seemingly "invisible" foundation to be more real.)

    It was Yahoshuvah himself who said Torah is the Word of God...and it is only ancient and ambiguous to those who are not willing to do it without holding onto pre-established notions and judgements about what it all really means. (What justice is there in a preconcieved notion that elliminates a more comprehensive flow of infomation through personal experimentation?

    You can call it some sort of existential leap of faith if you so choose...but your leap is not even experienced as such here. Rather, i do what i know to be true from scripture, then futher relative undestanding comes. . .repeat ad infintum.

    Scripture? This is my Father's message of life immutable to me...
    (When quite a bit younger, dad trained me to do and not to do certain things, i did not understand the whys and wherefores...and i really still do not comprehend the how (of Torah) and why it all works out so good like it does. This is moreso true about God, yet without an interactive relationship with Him (kinda' like dear ole dad), it becomes a futile exercise of keeping rules. . .for what???

    In fact, i often have thought both my dad's, and moreso my Heavenly Father's actions and expectations to be sometimes cruel, heartless, malicious, or just plain mean...and not until walking in the ways they desire,
    --(towards the best interest for others and myself (yet unrealized)--
    did i begin to comprehend the reasons behind the instructions had very little, if not nothing at all, to do with what i misunderstood the purpose of both the instructions and examples provided really meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    I have no problem with seeking experience "beyond physical sensory stimuli" - indeed, I am quite motivated in that direction. But why shackle myself with preconceived religious ideas that look more like bondage than freedom? I know there is a paradox in consciousness - self vs. other - but why add to it artificially by projecting your spiritual intuitions into an old book. Why not take the straight path based directly on your own intuitions?
    Belief in an institutionalized set of regulations neccesitates projection of intuition into the system and is nothing more than whateverreligion is adhered to.

    If we take off the one-sided glasses for a moment, Biblical examples of more notable people of Yah clearly point out that these were just as, if not more flawed at times in the way they lived, than some of us.
    (some basic examples are
    Avraham...ignoble liar...
    Yitsak...laughing mocker...
    Yakav...swindler...
    Moshe...rebel and murderer...
    Dawid...adulterer, murderer, deciever
    ...and the listings can go on and on, all the way to me.

    It really is not the do or do not that is the issue, contrary to what every religious institution teaches.

    The issue is what we actually rely upon ...the failures and successes in following the rules are exemplified relative to growth in relationship with Him. This shows us trusting Him is key to walking in His ways and not vice versa. It is a process of growing dependence that marks maturity

    G_d is my reward and the occurances (both good and bad) in this life are not. He took me from where I was and day by day changes me as i continue to relate with Him.

    Funny thing is, whether we can recognize it or not, those things we may not be able to physically sense, the unseen invisible things are right here right now and there actually is no division between the seen and unseen. Metaphorically, it is all one stick, though the physical and the spiritual (only) 'appear' to be on opposing ends of this stick.

    Yes, the Bible is of the oldest of books, which causes wonder if all the varied belief systems, of what is similar in expression, did not come from it, or the Author as the source???
    (you prolly balk at such an assertion (Author); so, rather than belaboring a mute point (here at least), it would do us well to focus on your reasons why you consider it invalid and why my thoughts are contrary to your own in respect to the question you initially posed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    It is also unwise to identify and compare ourselves with any other human--all of us being one race. It is even less wise to compare ourselves or identify with any other part of physical existence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Who's doing that?
    EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US does this to a greater or lesser extent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Can we at least concur that there are higher standards than the human genome currently can conceive...even though coming together towards a congruency of exactly what The Absolute is may occur at another juncture in time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    I'd love to agree, but that is difficult because I'm not sure what you are getting at. I have never said that the human genome sets a "standard" for the "absolute." That was your idea. It never would have occurred to me.
    Yes, it was my idea, yet the intention was more towards the concept of everybody wanting to be different, just like everyone else. Thus, the human genome has no true absolute. Rather each individual adheres to differing varied standards...and some day...perhaps time out of mind...STS One will be all and all will be One again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    The idea of "decreasing honor and growing decadence" only reveals an ignorance of history. People in general are morally much better now then at any time in history. Think of the history of this great Christian nation that used to enslave, torture, and murder people because of the color of their skin. Women couldn't vote or have any equal role in society with men. Social morals advance because people are becoming free from the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Ignorance of history...or do you infer my own in relation to your statement? We can go with the second option and attempt to explain.

    This place called America was never truly a great Christian nation. Granted, there seems there has always been more or less a lue of Christianity. Still, America has always been a melting pot integrating cultural norms some consider to be moral, yet without holding to a standard that is not open to re-interpretation, the cultured society itself becomes the absolute. If America was ever at all Christianity, this term must necessarily posess the noun Humanism adjunct with it.
    (aka:I am my shepherd, and God was a primary voice to be learned from. The United States was borne on the wings of rebellion...so please take off the blinders.)
    Quote Originally Posted by RAM
    There has never been any nation or person that was "truly Christian" because that term has no definition. Each "Christian" has their own definition.
    "...their own definition" . . .and the blind continue to lead the blind, straining out gnats and swallowing gimels, then falling into ditches altogether now.

    How about reiterating two quotes right here:

    "Truth is beautiful without a doubt. . .but so are lies," wrote Ralph Waldo Emmerson,

    and secondly

    Adolph Hitler proved what he said in the words,"The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one."



    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    What is the absolute you adhere to as the ultimate standard of morality?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    What is the absolute I adhere to as the ultimate standard of morality? The absolute is LOVE - love for self and love for others modulated through the symmetric logic of the Golden Rule. I explained this in my article The Logic of Love: A Natural Theory of Morality.
    It's interesting to note G_d is not part of the picture when you speak of "loving neighbor as yourself."
    So, did human alway just inherently have this in them...or what?

    Ok, how's this for query towards the above question answered:
    Yeshua ha' Nasri said the golden rule was the second greatest commandment and you speak of logical symetry. In a universe currently observably to be fractal, and humanities geatest scientists now recognize the currently accepted and taught model of the universe cannot account for approximately 75% of the gravity in it, can there truly be any logical symetry about anything without understanding what the source of LOVE is, or that there exists higher laws in play than a naturalistic mind can conceivably grasp?


    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Just because folks can forego enslaving and torture and murder in the physical sense does not mean that at our core we cannot still adhere to these things iregardless of creed or color. Couldn't it possibly mean that people actually care that much less for one another rather than a new age of morality adrift on the ocean of pseudo-logical expletives?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    I'm not particularly clear about what you mean by "the ocean of pseudo-logical expletives." If something I have written is accurately criticized as "pseudo-logical" I would be in your debt if you could explain it to me.

    I find it odd that you would minimize the dramatic drop in "enslaving and torture and murder" as if it did not demonstrate the great moral advancement brought about by the acceptance of secular values.
    DRAMATIC DROP WHERE?
    That statement need be qualified and not so encompassing.

    It's like this. One of my political science teachers and myself debated this very point...myself standing once in the very ideas you currently hold. He changed my mind, not only statistically, but proving that the principles that define slavery are in effect worldwide, to a far greater degree now than any other point in recorded history.

    i feel that your are not taking a comprehensive look at this sweeping problem. Just because these once held ideas MAY SEEM to be true for America, worldwide facts speak differently.

    We can all perform mental tricks with statistics, but the facts are there if one takes the time to look and avoid sleight of mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Defining the meaning behind the mention of decadence and lack of honor need be spoken here. It was meant in terms of scriptural standards which most cannot even accept much less receive...at least without honing them to fit their own ideations of what should and should not be. Honoring the creature more than the creator is neither honorable nor morally astute...yet you say it is this freedom from Biblical standards that makes for greater morality? One of us needs to get a grip.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Can you name a single "Biblical standard" of morality that is not found in other cultures?
    No, but then again, what nation has not been influenced greatly through the diaspora of Israel??? This is not to say Semitic people are the source of this phenomena.
    If that is not enough, from this understanding, no two humans are really that different at all when it comes down to the brass tacks. I say we were all first created in the image of God, and you seem to think it is some sort of "evolving absolute"...isn't that an oxymoron?

    QUOTE=Richard]Your appeal to "Biblical standards" is very problematic. Are you talking about the pattern of God endorsing the capture of virgins to be used as sex slaves coupled with the murder of everyone they ever loved? See Numbers 31 and Judges 19-21. They both show God participating in the capture of sexy virgins and the slaughter of everyone else. Folks are totally "selective" when it comes to "Biblical" values. The simply cherry pick the values in the Bible that fit their preexisting natural moral intuitions. So the real root of morality is the human heart, not a book that folks make conform to their moral intuitions. The Bible actually contains some fundamentally immoral teachings, as explained in my article The Inextricable Sexism of the Bible. And the attempt to defend the Bible as "God's Word" tends to corrupt both the minds and the morals of believers, as explained in my article The Art of Rationalization: A Case Study of Christian Apologist Rich Deem.
    Now who actually endorsed that? Who actually did that? Was it God or Israel under the leadership and warfare of Moshe and Yoshuvah, respectively? Was God implicit about all that or did Moshe just say that God said that or what?

    Where does it say these were SEXY VIRGINS and where does it say they were anything other than slaves???
    Is war murder???
    Is a national objective the purpose of one man? Is this what you imply?
    (Why is sexism only believed to be the blame of men and not women? Even as i have seen greater prejudice here in America among blacks (and not whites), even so, i have seen more sexism amongst females than males. All of these things seem founded on bias: seeing something other than what present plight exists, judging current situations, and the extremity of resulting prejudice dictates what is done towards change.


    Gender blame games?
    Is this what stops you from accounting for all the good things in the Bible?
    I seriouslly doubt it.

    A person who reads two or three pages of a book and discounts the rest of it because of what they pecieve to be a few mistakes might just be taking things out of context or promoting their own agenda or biased from the git-go...or whatever. This is not sound.

    You have already previously mentioned Lot offering his daughters to the men of Sodom, so let me give you one more bullet to garner that ammo belt...from Judges no less: Jephthah's vow to sacrifice whatever came from his house after Yaweh gave him victory over the Ammonites: it was his only child, and a female at that. [ see chapter 11 ]

    So lets say we take three (or four) instances out of the context of Judges and Deuteronomy (or Genesis) and we conclude that everything else from beginning to end is invalid?

    In all instances, in all fairness, we must also do this with every other known source of information, too, right?
    What remains?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Historically, the further any people strays towards their own devices creates the means towards using their own weapons of self-destruction on themselves. A prime example of this is the rise and fall of Roman civilization. It appears that many a nation has since followed suit, if not in replicated in fact, at least in principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Your assertion is not self-evident. On the contrary, there is much evidence that it is when people are ruled by religious dogma that they become moral monsters. Case in point: How did Hitler get his Christian army to kill six million Jews? There were two factors in play: 1) 2000 years of antisemitism taught both in Scripture and from the pulpit. 2) The fundamental Christian dogma that OBEDIENCE is MORALITY and the only way to save your soul from eternal torment in hell. It is this fundamentally fallacious Christian dogma that corrupts the believers. This has been well stated by Steven Weinberg who said "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

    And did you know that some Romans blamed the fall of their empire on its conversion to Christianity?
    I think that we humans are already moral monsters, and it takes selfishness and the greed it spawns to be exemplified through far more avenues than the faulty towers of religion. Resulting outward expressions of flawed human devisings are not the root of the problem.

    Wasn't it Marx who said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses?"

    Antisemitism was long before some Germans, even up to current Protestatism taking the ideas of Martin Luther to heart. You said 2000 years and have me thinking about the words from the Roman Catholic Church post 324 A.D.

    Anyway, after agreeing that the word "Christianity" is a misgnomer, it should not be touted as trump card for those German military and national occupations.
    Have you ever heard of Thule?...or the German preoccupation with the Elder gods and ice and more?


    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Is the ability to vote an expression of liberty or is it actually buying into a bondage beyond an individuals control? So now, women too can participate freely in attempting to define the terms of cultural/societal enslavement commonly understood to be government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    If you think our freedom to vote is really bondage, you must mourn the loss of the great bastion of freedom - the USSR.

    Government is necessary. Try living without it and see what happens.
    So, we have to have government even though people can LOVE and get along in unity? Something is very wrong with this picture. The laws enforced through govenment do not neccesarily reflect individual understanding, view, or belief.

    A deceased friend of mine who had escaped the Soviet Republick through a student foreign exchange program, cut me short once while talking as you, saying, "no matter what form of government exists to control people, people will find a way to do whatever they truly desire whether that government becomes involved or not. You might think of the USSR as oppressive, yet this serves good pupose. It makes people to become more resourceful. I would not be the carpenter i am today were it not for the lack and limitations i once lived under...so i thought about it alot:

    There is no perfect system of government, as the very employment of it proves there really is no such thing as equality among peers.
    It is not less partisanship that will help solve this, but rather, better partisanship.
    However, it is not just society that is divided, but people ae divided within.

    If i assume evolution to be true (and i am only accountable to natural law), there is no better way to fix it than to flush it all away.

    Have you ever read "Towards Democracy" by Edward Carpenter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    Maybe any government that caters to societal norms becomes the hope and dream through the actions of the people.
    This is the essence of faith, is it not?
    Maybe we could redefine God upon those lines as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Religious norms are a kind of societal norm - the "society" being the "religious society."

    It is not the "essence of faith." That is a confusion of words.
    Sorry, " the essence of THE DEFINITION OF faith" is hopes and dreams becoming by acting accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Before we "re"-define God, perhaps we should ask what the existing definition is
    ...then compare that with both the spermalogy of the word, as well as it's etymology?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Selfishness is indeed a great moral problem. It is overcome only by authentic self-love which necessarily entails love of others because humans are social organisms, as explained in my article The Logic of Love: A Natural Theory of Morality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    ...and where does Darwin fit into that picture? You know, survival of the fittest and all that rot. Life feeds on life so liber lex talionis, right? How morally sound is that notion?

    YES! LOVE!
    ...however, even as one persons god is another persons devil, no two people will give you the same definition as to what love truly is.

    If we do not love ourselves how can we love another, yet even the term love needs a singular unchanging definition that all can uphold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Darwin fits perfectly in my theory. The precursor to self-love is the most primitive of all instincts - the instinct for self-preservation.

    How is it possible that you could describe "survival of the fittest" as "rot"? It sounds like you know nothing of which you speak.

    Your implication of liber lex talionis does not follow because humans are social organisms with a biological basis for empathy like mirror neurons and hormones such as oxytocin. And we have big brains, so we can see and understand that self-love necessarily entails love for others.

    It is true that different people may give different definitions of love, but that's primarily because most people are inarticulate and probably haven't thought about the precise definition much. That's why I have a role to fill - folks need help articulating what they already know. And so we can make the world a better place.
    Why then the seen need for referees such as governments and religions? Your approach sounds pre-transhumanistic.

    i call "survival of the fittest" rot because evolution makes monkeys out of us.
    Hitler called it "joy through strength" and we see what happened as the end result. One of the most educated nations at that point in time goes around eliminating anything that did not fit the parameters defined by the third reich. That was the big lie their masses fell prey to.

    The race does not always go to the strongest and swiftest...but those things can help.



    Inarticulation is not the problem because actions speak louder than words. Brainwashing is far more effective than articulation...and when transhumanism comes of its own perhaps that might wok better still. Yet, for now we will have suffice with various govenments clandestine operatives, spies, wars, and smoke filled rooms behind the scenes.

    You may call me brainwashed. So mote it be.
    Anyway, i know Who is washing my brains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Totally agree with that! Enforced "communism" is just a vehicle for Fascism and Dictatorships.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy
    ...so here at last we stand unflinchingly on common ground. Mayhaps we will do better starting from this point building an edifice of pragmatic philosophy together inextricably immutably absolute or something like that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Yes, it is good that we found a point of agreement. I'm always amazed how dimwitted philosophers are on the subject of morality. They must invent situations like "it is wrong to torture babies for fun" before they can even begin discussing the topic. Atheists and theists mirror the ignorance of the other. Theists say there would be no morality at all if there were no God, and atheists agree and so say there is no morality. It's truly pathetic.
    Enforced anything is a vehicle towards subjegation and control. So, it seems everybody wants to rule the world.

    Most cannot admit the real problem lies deeper than morality.
    If society is the belief system, and societies change, there really is no moral absolute from that quarter.
    Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.



    Greatest I Am,

    Hi. Back in the 90's, after visiting Arizona with 'Steve Flowers', we met Chris H.
    He was very gracious and showed us immense hospitality.
    He also provided us with the text for an upcoming book, then entitled "Toxic Magick."
    (Do you bite yourself? jk-LMAOPMPROFL)

    Your responses to lil' ole' Timmy will be thought through b4 words fly to you from here.
    (Do you praxi the psychopaths bible?)

    Seriously, no, I really do not think we can just turn off selfishness...but is self-absorbtion the answer?
    Yes, it is agreed that God made man to sin.
    It is only the why of these things that we may not agree on.

    Infekshunly:
    Just anon so special
    spacial
    graduate
    ov
    O. rdo
    S. acri
    V. erbi
    &
    F. eral
    L. ight
    U. niversity,

    Timmy
    The mind grows by taking in
    :Mesiras Nefesh:
    THE HEART GROWS BY GIVING OUT

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