Howdy Sylvius,

Today, 08:49 AM#90
Senior Member
Join Date
Jun 2007
Originally Posted by Gil

The Woman was Israel ( New Israel ) through whom the Christ would be raised from the dead.

S > New Israel = the church?
Gil > Yes. The Church that was being formed during Paul's day.
It's purpose and function was for the filling up of a Pauline Whole Body that was entirely Jewish in nature.
A transformation of the Old Body that was Israel in the Physical sense of a flesh (sarx) Body to that
of a Spiritual Body , the New Israel.
The Church now is the BOC ( Body of Christ). This became effectual in AD70.
[ to narrow even that down further, only those within Christ that are of the outer Body are the
Church. The outer Body of Christ is all flesh for all time.]
Not all of the outer Body are within the inner Body.

S > I thought Jesus was raised from the dead by God (Romans 1:5)
Gil > Yes, He was raised up by and through his Father.
Originally Posted by Gil
Within her womb was the Christ child, the first to be begotten of the Father and she was clothed with the glory of the presence of his Spirit.
Her previous glory was that of Old Israel, that of the moon.
Old Israel would come out of the darkness of the evening time into the light of the full of the Day.
Both Old and New Israel's were Whole Bodies.

S > How you come to that?
Gil > Come to what? The Womb?
The womb was the Tomb.
Originally Posted by Gil
The man child was raised up to the resurrected Jesus Christ.

S > Wasn't it first slaughtered?
Gil > The forming of New Israel began with The resurrected Jesus Christ.
Originally Posted by Gil
Gil > Yes ,Sarah was old but she would give birth to Isaac and through his loins would come Jacob who would father the 12 tribes of Israel.
Through the womb of Mary would come the Messiah in the flesh, not through the seed of man in the flesh but of the seed of his Father Lord God.

S > I thought it was a matter of the Holy Spirit

Gil > It a graphic view , the seed of the Father was implanted within Mary's womb. Not the seed ( semen) of man in the flesh.
This was a spiritual seed. In Sarah's case it was Abrahams physical seed that Isaac was born.

Originally Posted by Gil
Both Old and New Israel's were Whole Bodies. Old Israel was barren and a flesh man who's father ( Spirit) was that of natural man would never give life to the promised seed that was to be Messiah.

Old Israel as a Whole was seen to be a woman .

Old Israel was a natural Body and New Israel was a Spiritual Body.

S >Was old Israel crucified?

Gil > In the flesh of Jesus ,one could say that.
Paul makes reference to both the inner and outer man, from both an individual and as a Whole Body
perspective and relationship.
Any part/member as a singularity may represent the Whole of which it belongs.


Howdy Sylvius,

Just read your last post.
Will look over what I had said and see if I can give it more clarity.

Quote: Gil > Trying to pass on Images isn't the easiest thing to do.

Paul's Christology is a real head game. It is almost like one has to see it
before one can understand it. Sounds like Don gave it a shot and it did not take well.

In the meantime , how do you see the imagery of the verses you gave below?

[ Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Genesis 18:11 Now Abraham and Sarah [were] old [and] well stricken in age; [and] it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.]

We all know what and who Old Israel was from a Physical/mental point of view.
How do you see ,what is termed New Israel. Spiritual or a new form of Physical.

Paul used whole Body association for both.

Everyone that delves into Christology in its true form has to for obvious reasons be
called a Heretic who dabbles in heresies by evangelical Christians.

I'm a Christian but only that. A Christian.

In order to not cause another war between the various factions of Christianity
I will move this post into the " Deviations, Heresies and Cults forum."