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  1. #11
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    What crime did Jesus do for God to demand his murder as his tarrif?
    What crime did God do letting Jesus sleep for three days and woke Him up with His agreement and knowledge?

    God's plan shows that even before man was created, he planned to have Jesus sacrificed/murdered to save us from the hate of his condemnation.
    Rather God plan shows that even before man was created, He intended to save humanity to eternal life by showing that conquering death is possible using Jesus, His own son, as an example.

    His hate therefore preceded the loving forgiveness.
    Rather His forgiveness and love for mankind goes beyond relationships even if it means giving up His own son.

    If love had been predominant, the thought of condemnation would not have been predominant.
    If selfless love has not been predominant, the plan of even giving up His own son would not have been predominant.

    One does not plan a cure unless one knows it will be required and dogma says that God knows all.
    Rather those who are well does not need a physician, only those who are sick. God and Jesus are here for those who are spiritually sick.

    Do not just deny. Offer an argument to refute.
    Do not deny God and encourage all to deny Him. Better to tie a millstone around the neck and be drown than to let Christians who love God astray. Do not deny those who want to go to heaven.

    God forgiven them for they do not know what they are doing.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    What crime did God do letting Jesus sleep for three days and woke Him up with His agreement and knowledge?
    So Jesus did not die. He only slept. So much for his sacrifice.
    Thanks for killing the immoral idea of substitutionary atonement.

    Rather God plan shows that even before man was created, He intended to save humanity to eternal life by showing that conquering death is possible using Jesus, His own son, as an example.
    Save humanity from a condition that he himself would impose. Would you cut your child just to look like a hero when you bandaged him up?
    That is what you are saying God did.
    That is self-aggrandisement. Not benevolence.
    Further, you said he was just put to sleep. How does sleep conquer death?


    Rather His forgiveness and love for mankind goes beyond relationships even if it means giving up His own son.
    If God was motivated by love then he could have just forgiven man outright or not condemned him in the first place.
    You said just above that Jesus just slept for three days. How is that God giving up a son? Who did he give him up to if he did?


    If selfless love has not been predominant, the plan of even giving up His own son would not have been predominant.
    Again. Sleep is not giving up anything.

    Rather those who are well does not need a physician, only those who are sick. God and Jesus are here for those who are spiritually sick.
    Yes. Christians.


    Do not deny God and encourage all to deny Him. Better to tie a millstone around the neck and be drown than to let Christians who love God astray. Do not deny those who want to go to heaven.

    God forgiven them for they do not know what they are doing.
    I deny fantasy, miracles and magic as a good base to build a theology on.
    I also deny that human sacrifice and punishing the innocent instead of the guilty is a good policy for any religion.

    Regards
    DL

  3. #13
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    What crime did God do letting Jesus sleep for three days and woke Him up with His agreement and knowledge?
    So Jesus did not die. He only slept. So much for his sacrifice.
    Thanks for killing the immoral idea of substitutionary atonement.
    Death is sleep said the Bible. People who had a cardiac arrest and were revived will tell you the experience is the same as sleep. Being revived from death is no difference from sleep scientifically.

    Rather God plan shows that even before man was created, He intended to save humanity to eternal life by showing that conquering death is possible using Jesus, His own son, as an example.
    Save humanity from a condition that he himself would impose. Would you cut your child just to look like a hero when you bandaged him up?
    That is what you are saying God did.
    That is self-aggrandisement. Not benevolence.
    Further, you said he was just put to sleep. How does sleep conquer death?
    Rather help humanity to be like God by experiencing life and death, good and evil. Same as you allow your child to go through surgery so that his illness is treated. Which is better...Would you subject your child to sleep for 3 days with the guarantee that he will get eternal life upon waking or would you subject your child to sleep for 3 days with the guarantee that he will only live for seventy years and then become dust, gone forever.
    Huh?... Sleep conquer death? I said sleep is like death revived. If death is reversible, then death is like sleep; died woke up, died woke up, died woke up....

    Rather His forgiveness and love for mankind goes beyond relationships even if it means giving up His own son.
    If God was motivated by love then he could have just forgiven man outright or not condemned him in the first place.
    You said just above that Jesus just slept for three days. How is that God giving up a son? Who did he give him up to if he did?
    God does not condemned Jesus, if so, would God have given Jesus eternal life and enthroned Him as eternal King? God is motivated by love and wants humans to be like God, wise and knowing good and evil. Giving him up means giving up temporary earthly life for eternal life....who don't want eternal life? Do you?

    If selfless love has not been predominant, the plan of even giving up His own son would not have been predominant.
    Again. Sleep is not giving up anything.
    What? Sleep is giving up waking life so that the body can rest and repair and be physically ready for the next day. Selfless death is giving up one's life so that those that you love may live; isn't this morally right?

    Rather those who are well does not need a physician, only those who are sick. God and Jesus are here for those who are spiritually sick.
    Yes. Christians.
    Absolutely right, if not why become a Christian?.... so that one can be treated for one's spiritual illness. Everybody needs a physician in their lifetime whether Christians or not; everyone can become physically and spiritually sick in their lifetime.

    Do not deny God and encourage all to deny Him. Better to tie a millstone around the neck and be drown than to let Christians who love God astray. Do not deny those who want to go to heaven.
    God forgiven them for they do not know what they are doing.


    I deny fantasy, miracles and magic as a good base to build a theology on.
    I also deny that human sacrifice and punishing the innocent instead of the guilty is a good policy for any religion.
    What fantasy, miracles and magic is dependent on technology. People in Jesus time would have thought computers, TV, cars, aeroplanes, space travel, atomic bombs as fantasies, and antibiotics as miracles, illusions as magic. Therefore , what we read events in the Bible during our current lifetime as fantasies, miracles and magic may become future realities. Will death be reversible in future?....will all illnesses be cured in an instance in future?.... Can we travel at or near the speed of light in future?.... Can we produce fusion energy like the sun in the future?..... can we turn water into wine in the future? ......with advance technologies beyond the 21st century, why not? Don't be so short-sighted; think like a futurist.

    Death of the innocent or the guilty with subsequent resurrection is no human sacrifice for any religion.

    May God Bless our souls.
    Last edited by CWH; 10-15-2012 at 12:24 PM.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  4. #14
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    This is too ridiculous to speak to.

    You now hide behind science produced miracles and magic and what I call death you call sleep and then turn it to death again.

    I have intelligent adult conversations on the God and have no time for your pretzel thinking.

    Regards
    DL

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
    This is too ridiculous to speak to.

    You now hide behind science produced miracles and magic and what I call death you call sleep and then turn it to death again.

    I have intelligent adult conversations on the God and have no time for your pretzel thinking.

    Regards
    DL
    You think it is ridiculous because you don't accept futurist's thinking. There is no limit as to what future technologies may do..death reversal, panacea, space travel etc. Are you so limited in your imagination? Let's face the facts, many things that were fantasies in ancient times are realities in modern times. You can't hide science and it's unlimited possibilities which you call fantasies. They may be fantasies now but does not mean they cannot be realities in future. You are living in your own self created box oblivious to what the future may hold.

    God Bless.
    Ask and You shall receive,
    Seek and You shall find,
    Knock and the door will be open unto You.

  6. #16
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    Do not just deny. Offer an argument to refute.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post

    I have intelligent adult conversations on the God and have no time for your pretzel thinking.

    Regards
    DL
    I have said that I will reason with you from the Bible. You have not supported any of your claims by quoting a single verse of scripture. You might be able to quote verses that you think support your view, but I will reason the opposite view from the scriptures. The day you can reason from the Bible, will be the day you have a sensible conversation. All you can do is make controversial statements you cannot support. I think you are far from having an adult conversation and are bordering on the delusional. Have a rational conversation on this forum and show me you are not delusional.


    David

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWH View Post
    You think it is ridiculous because you don't accept futurist's thinking. There is no limit as to what future technologies may do..death reversal, panacea, space travel etc. Are you so limited in your imagination? Let's face the facts, many things that were fantasies in ancient times are realities in modern times. You can't hide science and it's unlimited possibilities which you call fantasies. They may be fantasies now but does not mean they cannot be realities in future. You are living in your own self created box oblivious to what the future may hold.

    God Bless.
    Your futuristic imaginary thinking does not explain why you would follow a genocidal son murderer unless your focus is just on getting into heaven but do you really think a moral God would accept you with that kind of moral sense?

    Further, this has nothing to do with the O P.

    Do you fear discussing it and facing reality?

    Regards
    DL

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    I have said that I will reason with you from the Bible. You have not supported any of your claims by quoting a single verse of scripture. You might be able to quote verses that you think support your view, but I will reason the opposite view from the scriptures. The day you can reason from the Bible, will be the day you have a sensible conversation. All you can do is make controversial statements you cannot support. I think you are far from having an adult conversation and are bordering on the delusional. Have a rational conversation on this forum and show me you are not delusional.


    David
    This O P has nothing to do with the bible so why would I want to quote it?

    Do you know what the O P is all about?

    If so, speak to it.

    I did put a clip on Jesus.
    Are you ready to discuss any of the moral issues spoken of?
    If so, say which and I can then get whatever I need to back up my view as I agree with what is said there.

    Regards
    DL

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